Sinning

[Umar001]

I got it thanks

Peep

 

[Woodrow]

In post 25:







Just wondering bro Fi Sabilillah and Woodrow:



Isn't that shirk, to ascribe the status of creator to creation?

Thank you for pointing that our Bro. IsaAbdullah. I went back and edited my reply:

I have no disagreement with that statement. I believe that to be true, except instead of saying "we created sin ourself" I would say it as "we choose sin ourself".

 

[Umar001]

NO problemo, please do the same when I make a mistake brother Woodrow.

Regards

Salam Aleykum Eesa

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

So God looked on the Israelites and was concerned about them.

Ok maybe saying God cudnt look on sin was the wrong choice of words, but what i meant was for the first time in Jesus' life, because he was carrying the worlds sin, Gods presence or spirit was away from him, and thats why i believe he sayd father why have you forsaken me.

So Jesus can be among sinners but the Father cannot. Just out of wonder, water, ice and steam, we can see the differences in, can you tell us the differences between Jesus the G-d, Father the G-d and Holy Spirit the G-d.

I see Jesus as a man, the holy spirit as the spirit of God, and God the father as God.

 

[Skillganon]

I see Jesus as a man, the holy spirit as the spirit of God, and God the father as God.

EDIT: for typo

I heard, from other christian, if you deny Jesus Godhood than you are not a christian. What sect of christianity you follow?

 

[Woodrow]

Is there any Bible passage that says this or refers to it?

I see Jesus as a man, the holy spirit as the spirit of God, and God the father as God.

 

[Skillganon]

I don't think so, but what I hear from most christian is Jesus reffered as a God-Man. He is "fully god and fully human" at the same time. Don't ask me how this is possible, it's not my theology or based on my sound reasoning.

Any christian to help?

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

I heard, from other christian, if you nedy Jesus Godhood than you are not a christian. What sect of christianity you follow?

i dont know what nedy means and dnt really understand what u mean? cud u explain more plz mate? thnx

Is there any Bible passage that says this or refers to it?

Sorry woodrow i do not, ive only been a christian for 7 months, so i dont know verses off the top of my head, but i know Jesus was a man and the son of God. sorry dude.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Ah np, well i have learned tonight that i dnt know or came across any scipture thats says Jesus is God as a man, not saying there is none but i have not come across any. Alough i can think of a cuple that say he was the son of God, i am going to look about it and i will post what i find.

 

[Woodrow]

i dont know what nedy means and dnt really understand what u mean? cud u explain more plz mate? thnx



Sorry woodrow i do not, ive only been a christian for 7 months, so i dont know verses off the top of my head, but i know Jesus was a man and the son of God. sorry dude.

No problem. I can understand that. I've only been a revert to Islam a little over a year, so I can't quite recite Quran Surahs on demand either.

Excuse my manners, I neglected to welcome you back to the thread. It is good to have some one here willing to discusses differences peacefully and not get in a tiff cause we believe differently.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Well to not come peacefully, i wud be aborting christianity

So do u mind me asking of this topic how u converted from christianity to islam?

 

[Skillganon]

Ah np, well i have learned tonight that i dnt know or came across any scipture thats says Jesus is God as a man, not saying there is none but i have not come across any. Alough i can think of a cuple that say he was the son of God, i am going to look about it and i will post what i find.

Sorry, the claim "Jesus is Fully human and fully God" is their way of rationalising Jesus perk for food and water and his human supscibility without denying him as God.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

I think, but might be wrong that the entire flow of the Old Testament requires that God come into the world, as Immanuel (God-with-us e.g. Isaiah 7:14).

 

[Woodrow]

Well to not come peacefully, i wud be aborting christianity

So do u mind me asking of this topic how u converted from christianity to islam?

I have no problem with repeating that. I was born Roman Catholic in a very deeply devout family. I was raised as all good Catholic boys should be, Catechism, Alter boy latter CYO. When got older Joined the Kof C, Sacred Heart Society and the rest. Had intended to be a Priest. Went into the Military first. For various reasons because of my 2 different Military experiences I got to learn several Languages and visit many countries. During this time several things happened.
I was severaly injured, spent a year in a body cast
I had to reconsider my choice of careers as it was obvious a physical career was now out of the question. I came across a religious impasse and had a question of faith. I converted to Buddhism, although in reality I was an agnostic.

I began my academic life, first love was in Engineering, pursued that then decided I wanted more. I was more interested in Philosophy, Linguistics, culture, and biology. Started my new life on the road to be either a Biologist or Psychologist. Settled on physiological psychology.

well long path, many countries visited, several languages learned. Lots of religous studies in several comparative religion courses.

Then the tragedy of life began hitting. My second wife passed away, various financial problems and I lost every possession I had ever owned and was left unemployable, savings whiped out, only income a few dollars a month from the USAF for service connected disability.

I began reading the Qur'an in Arabic again. I had not even looked at it in almost 30 years. My intent was to refresh my Arabic skills and get my mind off my problems. somewhere I became totaly engrossed in the Qur'an I realised I was not reading it, I was feeling it. I really do not know how long I read, but I know I read it at least 2 times non stop and I was overcome with a feeling of total peace and knew everything would be alright. I knew at that moment I was Muslim. I said my Shahadah then and there. That Friday I found the closest Mosque, which was 60 miles from me, got a ride to it and repeated the Shahadah at the Mosque.

Feel more peace comfort and joy now then I ever have.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

thats a great testimony mate.

When I was Christian, those could very well have been my words. I loved Jesus with all my heart and still do. When I was Christian, I met Jesus. When I reverted to Islam, I got to truly know him, and now know him with a solid belief that a Christian would never comprehend

I just wondered u said here when u were a christian? but was it a christian or a catholic you were? My mum went to the catholic church for 35 years and never became a christian until she left that church, accepted Jesus and felt the same supernatural feeling i did the night i gave my life to him.

There is some difference in the two religions i just wondering what one u followed?

You also said you know him with a solid belief that a Christian would never comprehend, what do u mean by this?

Peace

Sean

 

[Woodrow]

As a Muslim we get to know Jesus as a person. Not just any person, but as a prophet sent by God(swt). Because we see him in this light his miracles become even more amazing and show the love of God(swt) in a manner that is difficult to comprehend, when you view his as being divine.

He does truly reflect God's Love as can only be experienced by a human. It is only after the true gosples were lost and rewritten did the modern concept of Jesus(pbuh) come about. The truth of the true Jesus is much more beautifull and much more directed to man kind then what is reflected in the modern renditions of the bible.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

thats awsome, but u cant really speak for other christians in saying u know him in a way we cant comprehend.

You say u were brought up as a catholic, so was my mum and she never knew him in a way she does now. so was i to that matter, are you comparing the way you used to know him, to the way u know him now? Maybe christians have a better relationship with him than you did as one? and wernt u a catholic anyway? so how can u speak for christians unless u were 1?

If i am misunderstanding what ur saying sorry dude and please correct me.

I wont be able to replky until 2mor, God bless mate. speak 2mor!

 

[Woodrow]

It has always struck as odd that so many Christians refer to Catholics and Orthodox as being non-Christian, as between them they make up nearly 3/4 of the people that call themselves Christian. the Roman Catholics and the Orthodox Churches (Eastern Catholic, opposed to Roman) were the only Christians prior to the 1400's.

Makes it difficult to understand just what a Christian is.

Peace be with you Sean. Looking foreward to your return.

 

[Zulkiflim]

Ok firstly i think its common sense that if some1 is not truely sorry why should they be forgiven? excuse my lack of words but i think ur bright enuf to work out what i meant.

How do u know your forgiven? You believe that quran but u dnt know ur forgiven. i dont know im forgiven but i believe the bible and believe that now i live for christ i am forgiven, thats part of faith.



Like i said, the God i believe in is so rightous he cannot look upon sin, and if ur God can forgive just by saying the word, i wudnt want to follow him if he was true, but thats my on views, i want my God to be so rightous he cant be around sin.

Salaam,

So in short you dont know that you are forgiven just that YOU THINK YOU ARE FORGIVEN>.

Correct..

For muslim in prayer and in every time when we rememeber we ask for forgiveness and mercy for our lacks and weakneses,and for Allah to grant stregth and wisdom and patience.We ask,whether we recive it or not ,,whehter we are happy or sad,,we SUBMIT...
We dont take it upon ourslves to say for Allah that he has forgiven us.

As for your word that you want God to be soo righteous..
Again you ar limiting god to the concpet of weakness..or rahter of your desires and wishes of what you imagine god to be..


And you have shown god weakness that he cant stand be around sin,,,thus does he cast it aside and is not able to enter where sin is..

In Islam we say,good or bad is from Allah,in reaction to our action.
This world is a test ..a trasitory period..it wont last long..

Lastly,i would say that your wishes for god to be,,is a god in your minds eye and not god perse..

Allah is Allah..

Do not limit god to your understanding or your wishes or weakness.
Submit...

Worship the Creator not Creation..

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Woodrow there are some differences between catholics and christians, i believe catholcs believe you are saved by faith and 7 scraments, but the bible teaches we are saved by faith in christ alone or repentence. Another difference is priests believe they have authority to forgive sins on behave of God, We believe on God and Jesus has this authority. im sure there are other differences but these two are the only i know.

So in short you dont know that you are forgiven just that YOU THINK YOU ARE FORGIVEN

Whats with the caps mate? why so annoyed? You say i think im forgiven, i trust the OT and NT is the word of God, and i have faith that i have been forgiven for my sins. So for you to say YOU THINK YOU ARE FORGIVEN, is wrong to say, because if i only THINK IVE BEEN FORGIVEN then so do. its called faith in our religion!