Sinning

From the website you linked to"

A "Gospel according to Barnabas" is mentioned in two early Christian lists of apocryphal works: the Decretum Gelasianum (whose attribution to Pope Gelasius I, 492-496 CE is apocryphal but which is no later than the 6th century), as well as the 7th-century List of the Sixty Books [1]. These lists are independent witnesses, but in neither case is it sure that the compiler had actually seen all the listed works. In both cases, GoB is paired by juxtaposition with a Gospel of Matthias (presumed to refer to a surviving Traditions of Matthias.) However, these lists provide no details about the contents of the work, and there is no reason to assume that the text of the 6th-7th century GoB was the same as this one. M. R. James, New Testament Apocrypha (1924) disputed whether the work mentioned in those lists ever existed.

Keep in mind the Qur'an was not revealed until the 7th Century and did not come to be very well know by people outside of Saudi Arabia until about the 9th century.

Not total proof but evidence it existed priot to the Qur'an and was already removed by the Catholics.
 
1) You believe Jesus is God Almighty, but in this passage Jesus clearly distinguishes between himself and God.

2) The way to salvation according to Jesus in this passage lies with obeying the 10 commandments
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I will reply to these tomor, tired and got work tomorow. And could you explain more what u mean by 2.)

God bless
 
4-Christ-Alone said:
I will reply to these tomor, tired and got work tomorow. And could you explain more what u mean by 2.)

God bless
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Perhaps presumptuously, I assume you are an evangelical Christian. So I see a problem for you in some of Jesus' teaching. I have come to the conclusion through a careful study of the NT that Jesus in Mark's gospel did not teach justification by faith. That doctrine was invented by Paul (who never met Jesus incidentally). In a number of places in the synoptic gospels Jesus teaches a very different doctrine. If you want quotes I'll happily supply them.

So when I say The way to salvation according to Jesus in this passage lies with obeying the 10 commandments I mean just that, and not the later invented teaching of Paul. Most Christians today, in my view, follow Paul not Jesus. Muslims follow the teaching of the historic Jesus of Nazareth

I look forward to your reply!

Bilal:)
 
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You believe Jesus is God Almighty, but in this passage Jesus clearly distinguishes between himself and God.
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Ok you could say that you are correct in what you say i dont know anough about that, But that compared to the things i pointed out doesnt really convince me, read back and see again, i think its quite clear :-) .

So when I say The way to salvation according to Jesus in this passage lies with obeying the 10 commandments I mean just that, and not the later invented teaching of Paul. Most Christians today, in my view, follow Paul not Jesus. Muslims follow the teaching of the historic Jesus of Nazareth
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Correct me if i am wrong, but are u saying Jesus was teaching that the 10 commandments alone lead to salvation? The NT teaches that Jesus is the only way to the father, by accepting him as saviour you recieve eternal life, but salvation doesnt stop at Just accepting him, its folllowing him, and following Jesus is obeying the 10 commandments. If i have misunderstood what u meant please correct me.

Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, and no-one can get to the father except through me.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

it cleary teachs Jesus is the way to eternal life and God, and like i said, if your following Jesus your obeying the 10 commandments.

God bless
 
"Ok you could say that you are correct in what you say i dont know anough about that, But that compared to the things i pointed out doesnt really convince me, read back and see again, i think its quite clear :-)"

I'm confused about what you are saying here. My point was that Jesus, in this passage, obviously does not claim to be God. On the contrary.

"Correct me if i am wrong, but are u saying Jesus was teaching that the 10 commandments alone lead to salvation? The NT teaches that Jesus is the only way to the father, by accepting him as saviour you recieve eternal life, but salvation doesn't stop at Just accepting him, its following him, and following Jesus is obeying the 10 commandments. If i have misunderstood what u meant please correct me."

What I am saying is that the teaching of Jesus about justification by faith is very different from that of Paul (which most Christians follow). In answer to a question about what must one do to be saved Jesus points to the 10 commandments! Paul never ever did that! Would 3 more examples make it clearer?

My question is this: how is a sinner justified before God? Now will you except what Jesus says or what Paul says?

Look up Luke 18:9-14 - because of the man's humility he went home justified before God according to Jesus

look up Luke 19:1-10 the account of Zacchaeus the tax collector. In verse 10 Jesus says salvation has come to this house. Why? because Z. gives half of his possessions to the poor, again according to Jesus

lastly look at Matthew 25:31-46 the sheep & the goats. what is the criterion for salvation here? Upon what basis do people go to heaven or hell? It all depends if they visited the sick, clothed the naked etc. according to Jesus. Not justification by faith alone - Pauls doctrine.

there are many other verses like this in Matthew, Mark and Luke. (I omit John from this because most biblical experts do not believe the historical Jesus said all the words attributed to him there).

Jesus' teaching is very Islamic. We are saved by the mercy of God and our good works. Thats what Jesus taught (same in the letter of St James too - we are saved by faith & works).

Paul was a maverick who never new Jesus, & constantly clashed with the head of the church in Jerusalem - James. The sorry tale is all in Acts...
 
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When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.

Ok first, when looking at mathew there i came across this? and i wondered if the bible taught prophets to have a throne of glory? or any1 other than God? I havnt been a christian long and havnt studied all the bible yet so i wondered if you would know? The Son of Man is Jesus i believe and this verse says he will be on a throne of Glory. Why?

lastly look at Matthew 25:31-46 the sheep & the goats. what is the criterion for salvation here? Upon what basis do people go to heaven or hell? It all depends if they visited the sick, clothed the naked etc
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Dude, I your maybe taking this the wrong way, Jesus was a loving man who help sick, who welcomed people, and gave them food etc etc, if your following Jesus you will do these things, Jesus's followers are called the body of Christ. Look at our body for example, there is different parts of the body used for different things, same with the body of Christ, there christians used in many different things, with homeless, sick, working in prisons, i could go on all day! we are all the body working together for christ, and i think this is what he meant by that!

You say Paul never knew Jesus, maybe not on earth but i know Jesus even 2day.

And could you qoute things that paul said that went against Jesus.

Cheers mate

God bless
 
Woodrow said:
I have no problem with repeating that. I was born Roman Catholic in a very deeply devout family. I was raised as all good Catholic boys should be, Catechism, Alter boy latter CYO. When got older Joined the Kof C, Sacred Heart Society and the rest. Had intended to be a Priest. Went into the Military first. For various reasons because of my 2 different Military experiences I got to learn several Languages and visit many countries. During this time several things happened.
I was severaly injured, spent a year in a body cast
I had to reconsider my choice of careers as it was obvious a physical career was now out of the question. I came across a religious impasse and had a question of faith. I converted to Buddhism, although in reality I was an agnostic.

I began my academic life, first love was in Engineering, pursued that then decided I wanted more. I was more interested in Philosophy, Linguistics, culture, and biology. Started my new life on the road to be either a Biologist or Psychologist. Settled on physiological psychology.

well long path, many countries visited, several languages learned. Lots of religous studies in several comparative religion courses.

Then the tragedy of life began hitting. My second wife passed away, various financial problems and I lost every possession I had ever owned and was left unemployable, savings whiped out, only income a few dollars a month from the USAF for service connected disability.

I began reading the Qur'an in Arabic again. I had not even looked at it in almost 30 years. My intent was to refresh my Arabic skills and get my mind off my problems. somewhere I became totaly engrossed in the Qur'an I realised I was not reading it, I was feeling it. I really do not know how long I read, but I know I read it at least 2 times non stop and I was overcome with a feeling of total peace and knew everything would be alright. I knew at that moment I was Muslim. I said my Shahadah then and there. That Friday I found the closest Mosque, which was 60 miles from me, got a ride to it and repeated the Shahadah at the Mosque.

Feel more peace comfort and joy now then I ever have.
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wow! thats sooo beaytiful!:brother:
 
"I havnt been a christian long and havnt studied all the bible yet so i wondered if you would know? The Son of Man is Jesus i believe and this verse says he will be on a throne of Glory. Why?

And could you qoute things that paul said that went against Jesus."


Sorry, I didn't realise you were a new Christan. I have no desire to get all theological and heavy with you. Just read your Bible as I'm sure you are doing and keep your head screwed on! Take care...

Salam
 
Re: unforgivable sins

4-Christ-Alone said:
I See you all woner wat sins are unforgiven to your God? I am new to the muslim faith and i dont ever intend to follow it. I am a firm believer in Christ Jesus, and that he was the son of God and the saviour to all men.

Im sure most of you know the basis of christianity, we believe our God is the true living God as do you, and that our God is all perfect and sinless, that he cannot look upon sin, guess what man sinned! Oh no boy are we in trouble? going agaisnt an all mighty God who quite frankly, alough he is loving and merciful, has to punish. But God said to himself, i dont want to punish them because they fall, so he sent Jesus Christ, his only begotten son (John 3:16), that whoever believed in his name, should not perish but have everlasting life.

Now this makes sense to me, but this is not why i choose to follow christ, i like the story of superman but i dnt follow him, i decided to follow christ when he called me and i felt that supernatural feeling as accepting him as my lord and saviour and the son of God, Now any1 can say what they want about God or Jesus, about if they exsist, or who they really were, but no1 can ever take away the feelings and emotions Jesus has given me over my time as a christian, no1 can take away my testimony.

So anyway back to the point, if a man rapes a woman, shud the court say, ""there is no punishment for this crime if u say u will repent from it"" no! thats not acceptable, the man should be punished. So what i am asking is, does allah punish sin? if he does, we are all in big trouble and hes not a merciful God, but if he doesnt, ow can a God so good look upon unclean souls as us men? Jesus paid the punishment, My God loves me, and every1 of you, despite what u believe, forgive me for preaching. Take care! :-)
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Asalaamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

Allah SWT is most merciful lord of the universse
To me it isnt about ur god or my god and whoes god loves what
there is ONLY 1 god thats my oppinion tho
People are judged by their actions and deeds and their taqwaa (fear of allah) for me theres nobody who took or will take or will be punished for what i do
should i choose to turn to Allah to repent he is the all merciful and the forgiver (Allahu Alim) should i chose not to repent i will suffer for my sins and actions
its very simple to me theres nothing complicated about it
you do the crime you do the crime suga
 
ohhh ohhh sory sorry i ment time

hah haha ha

its supposed to be
u do the crime
u do the time

couldnt get it the first time

p.s woodrow masha allah that was a inspiring story of ur reversion to Islam may allah keep ur feet firm in this deen
 
I still think theres alot of people talking to one guy, one guy thats new at his faith too.

Sean, for the Thomas thing we will take time on it for us both to learn more if you want, personally I think we should.

Also bro, careful answeing so many questions is confusing lol

Peace
 
Sorry, I didn't realise you were a new Christan. I have no desire to get all theological and heavy with you. Just read your Bible as I'm sure you are doing and keep your head screwed on! Take care...
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Dude dont worry about that, u havnt stumpted me yet alough i am new, and i am learning more and more as i discuss things on here. so feel free to coment on my last post and the question i asked.

And also could u post some verses about pauls teachings being different to Jesus', Could you make an example mate?

I also came across something paul wrote in 1 corinthians 12:5 where it says, "There are different ways of serving, and yet the same Lord is served, There a different types of work to do, but the same God produces every gift in every person"

So when Jesus said the stuff about when i was hungry u fed me, when i was in prison u visited me, this verse relates to that, Christians are used in many different things serving the same God.

God bless
 
"And also could u post some verses about Paul's teachings being different to Jesus', Could you make an example mate?"

Sorry, but I have given you several examples from Jesus teaching. I had assumed you were familiar with St Paul's teaching too about justification by faith, but as a new Christian you may not be familiar with all the NT yet.

Which is fine

I'm not going to proof text here. If you read Paul's letter to the Romans all the way through and then read his letter to the Galatians you might see the issues I'm talking about. Which is why i suggested we all continue to study the New Testament with our eyes open ;)
 
Sorry, but I have given you several examples from Jesus teaching. I had assumed you were familiar with St Paul's teaching too about justification by faith, but as a new Christian you may not be familiar with all the NT yet.
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No mate u didnt post any, You posted one about Jesus and i answered it. and u didnt reply to that answer. its just if u say stuff like that then you should at least give 1 example.


That doctrine was invented by Paul (who never met Jesus incidentally). In a number of places in the synoptic gospels Jesus teaches a very different doctrine. If you want quotes I'll happily supply them.
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You say here Jesus teachs a different doctrine from paul. and you would be happy to quote some, and you also said u close studied the NT so they should come from the top of your head :-).

So if u can show me an example of how Jesus teachings is different from pauls i would be greatful.

God bless
 

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