sisters attacked for asking to pray in a blackburn masjid

[Ali_slave of Allah]

okay then my bad i am sorry glo if i offended any1

 

[Ali_slave of Allah]

thanx 4 correcting me sister

 

[~Stranger~]

This issue, however, is clearly gender discrimination - no matter how many reasons for protection, fitnah etc people may come up with.

perhaps this is what u think but we muslim disagree with and the hadith the blessed sis aqsa posted shows the proof for that

Umme Humaid the wife of Abu Humaid As-Sa’adi (ra) narrates that she came to the Prophet (pbuh) and said,

“O Messenger of Allah, indeed I love to pray with you.”

He replied,

“I know that you love to pray with me, but your prayer in your bedroom is better than your prayer in your living room and your prayer in your living room is better than your prayer in your courtyard and your prayer in your courtyard is better than your prayer in your neighborhood masjid and your prayer in your masjid is better than your prayer in my masjid”.

The narrators says,

“So she gave an order and a masjid was constructed for her in the farthest and darkest corner of her house and she continued to pray there until she died.”

(Sahidh Ibn Hibban hadith no. 2214 and Shahih Ibn Khuzaimah hadith no.1689).

conclusion is:

majority of ulama say it's permissable but not desirable due to the time we are in, regards fitna etc.

i know u dont intend to attack islam but remember its not ur religion and some of the things that we practice or believe in might not make sense to u. trinity doesnt make sense to me but i wont bash at christianty just based on that. u need to look ndeep deep inside islam and know our priorities- somthing i believe u havent acheived evn after all this time chatting to muslim.

I thought Islam prided itself on giving women so many rights ...

yes it does even thought u dont see that. some ppl think that womens right is to wear as less clothes as they can, i know u disagree with them.

Whichever way, women do not have the same rights to worship Allah as men have ...

thats not correct.

man+mosque=woman+home=hasanat (good rewards insha'allah)

so plz try not to jump to conclusion



p.s. sis Ann, may I email u??

 

[S_87]

Are womens's pray's better at home or in the mosque is the question here..?

What do the four school of fiQ say regarding this issue...? majority of ulama say it's permissable but not desirable due to the time we are in, regards fitna etc.

yes but this can only be correctly implemented by the same people who ban women, if they ban women from going anywhere. because there is much much much more fitnah in malls and on the street! than a womans only section of a masjid. :hiding:

 

[Ann]

p.s. sis Ann, may I email u??

Stranger, you may PM me if you like but I am still a limited member and will not be able to respond to you.

 

[Isma'el]

4get the fitna in malls n stuff,,,
i think the ulama say its un-desirable, is because the fitna it might cause going from one's house to the mosque. that how islam protects our women.
but some sistes fail to understand..they stay under the flag "women rights".

The biggest problem is we have tooo many self made scholars, they can relate hadiths, interpret them n literally understand them as well ...WOW

 

[S_87]

4get the fitna in malls n stuff,,,
i think the ulama say its un-desirable, is because the fitna it might cause going from one's house to the mosque. that how islam protects our women.
but some sistes fail to understand..they stay under the flag "women rights".

The biggest problem is we have tooo many self made scholars, they can relate hadiths, interpret them n literally understand them as well ...WOW

no no no brother. if youre gonna ban women from going to the masjid, like i said you must put a ban on women going anywhere.

Abdullah bin Umar Radhiullahu anhu said:

i heard the Messenger of Allah :arabic5: say:
Do not prevent your women from going to the masjid if they ask your permission.

Bilal ibn Abdullah said: By Allah, we would certainly prevent them.

Abdullah said: I say that the Messenger of Allah :arabic5: said it and you say: We would certainly prevent them.


another

Ibn Umar Radhiullahu anhu reported:
The Messenger of Allah :arabic5: said: do not prevent women from going to the mosque at night.
A boy said to Abdullah bin Umar: We would never let them go out, that they may not be caught in evil.
He (the narrator) said: Ibn Umar reprimanded him and said.. I am saying that the Messenger of Allah :arabic5: said this, but you say: We would not allow!
both narrated sahih muslim


i think this shows that even if the house is better do not prevent women

 

[nishom]

SALAAM,

At the mosque that i go to, there are lots of sisters circles (arabic, tajweed, seerah, fiqh) and sport programmes. Sisters can also pray at the mosque for thye 5 prayers, and pray Taraweeh there.

Mashallah the committee members recognise the fact that women have rights as well and that the mosque is not only for men.

What the hell is wrong with these mosques who prevent sisters form praying in the House of Allah?

"Do not stop the maid servants of Allah from going to the mosques of Allah." (Muwatta of Imam Malik)


"When the wife of one of you asks about going to the mosque, do not stop her." (Bukhari)


Narrated Ibn Umar: The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "Allow women to go to the Mosques at night." (Bukhari Volume 2, Book 13, Number 22)


Narrated Ibn Umar: One of the wives of Umar (bin Al-Khattab) used to offer the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayer in congregation in the Mosque. She was asked why she had come out for the prayer as she knew that Umar disliked it, and he has great ghaira (self-respect). She replied, "What prevents him from stopping me from this act?" The other replied, "The statement of Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) : 'Do not stop Allah's women-slave from going to Allah s Mosques' prevents him." (Bukhari Volume 2, Book 13, Number 23)


Ibn 'Umar reported: Grant permission to women for going to the mosque in the night. His son who was called Waqid said: Then they would make mischief. He (the narrator) said: He thumped his (son's) chest and said: I am narrating to you the hadith of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), and you say: No! (Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 0890)


Ibn Umar reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Do not deprive women of their share of the mosques, when they seek permission from you. Bilal said: By Allah, we would certainly prevent them. 'Abdullah said: I say that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said it and you say: We would certainly prevent them! (Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 0891)


Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that Atika bint Zayd ibn Amr ibn Nufayl, the wife of Umar ibn al-Khattab, used to ask Umar ibn al-Khattab for permission to go to the mosque. He would keep silent, so she would say, "By Allah, I will go out, unless you forbid me," and he would not forbid her. (Sunan Abu Dawud Book 14, Number 14.5.14)

 

[nishom]

And who is more unjust than he who forbids mention of God's name from any of His houses of worship and strive for their ruin although they have no right to enter them save in fear of God. For them, in this world, there is ignominy in store; and for them, in life to come, awesome suffering [2 (Surat Al Baqarah):114].

In another verse Al Quran states: But what have they now in their favor that God should not punish them- seeing that they bar the believers from the Sacred Mosque, although they are not its rightful guardians? None but the God-conscious can be its guardians; but most of them do not know [8 (Surat Al Anfal):34].

In another verse Al Quran states: Behold, as for those who are bent on denying the truth and bar others from the path of God and from the Sacred Mosque which We have set up for all people alike - both those who dwell there and those who come from abroad - and all who seek to profane it by deliberate evildoing, all such shall We cause to taste grievous suffering in life to come [22 (Surat Al Hajj):25].

In another verse Al Quran specifically addresses Hazrat Marayam to offer prayer in congregation. Al Quran states: O Mary! Worship your Lord devoutly, prostrate (Arabic word irkai) yourself and bow down in prayer with those who bow down (Arabic word ar-rakiun) [3(Surat Al Imran): 43].

In a Hadith the Prophet is reported to have said: The better rows for men are front ones, and the worst are the last ones. The better rows for women are the last ones and the worst are the first ones.

This Hadith however does not clearly prohibit women from the mosque and only seeks to place women behind men in prayers and not intended to prevent women from praying next to men in most crowded mosque. This Hadith also need to be reconciled with another Hadith in which the Prophet is reported to have said: The first rows [of the prayers] were perceived as superior, specially the first one, for God and the angles bless the first row and the first few rows. To interpret this Hadith in a way that goes against the principle of human equality as enshrined by Islam cannot be acceptable for this is against the very spirit of Islam and principle of natural justice of which Islam is exponent. Prophet in all fairness cannot deny blessings to women keeping them in the rear rows. In fact some scholars got confused and compared the best rows with the prayer rows. In fact the Hadith has been explained in a misplaced context. The best row is the first row of the battle. In other words, the Prophet encouraged women to stay behind the lines during the battles. This becomes clear if the aforementioned Hadith is read together with Quran. Al Quran states: God loves those who fight in His cause in row, as if they were an ordered structure [61 (Surat As Saff): 4]. The problem with this particular Hadith arose as later compiler of Hadith categorized this Hadith with the chapter of prayer, salat.

That woman is not barred from the mosque is clear from the Hadith in which Prophet is reported to have said: O women. When the men prostrate themselves, then lower your gaze, so you do not see the private parts of the men due to tightness of their loin cloths.

 

[Isma'el]

Thats exactly what i meant by self made scholars....
How do u know how n when these hadith were related...its no good just realting hadiths if u dont know the reasons behind them..

As i said 99.9999999% of the ulama do agree its permissable..
The reason they say its "un-desirable" to safe gurard them..

There are wisdom behind the ruling of the ulama....which we may not sometime understand..

Ofcourse if one can safegurard them selfs then its ok, but as i said look at the fitna around us in this day n age...its better to be safe than sorry.

It is `A'isha (ra) - May Allah be well-pleased with her - that tended to forbid the women from going to the mosques, including for the five prescribed prayers let alone Tarawih. She gave her reason in the famous statement: "If the Messenger of Allah had seen what the women of our time do, he would have forbidden them to go to the mosques just as the Israelite women were forbidden." Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and the books of Sunan.

Majoroty of the hadith speak about getting permmision..?

did these sisters get permission to give out leaflets out side the mosque in the first isntant..

Some mosque's cant even cater for men let alone women, due to resource's money ,size etc.

 

[Curaezipirid]

what are all the rulings about defining a Mosque?
because if such a thing happened here in Australia, as it described in the first post; the women concerned would probably try to find a way to turn one among their own houses into a Mosque?

That would serve the men right; and also prove that Islam is correct; but only so long as it is possible for such a thing to happen readily. I guess the women only need find an Imam.

wasalam

 

[nishom]

I think its more important to worry about the FITNAH that non-practising sisters are doing. Dont worry about practising sisters who want to offer their prayers in the mosque. Most of the sisters who attend prayers in mosque wear HIJAB-what fitnah will they be causing by heading to the mosque, intent on praying to Allah?

The problem is not sisters going to mosque but sisters going to mosque without the knowledge of their husbands.

We should worry more about those sisters and brothers who get involved in all types of activities that are not in Islam, wearing inappropriate clothing, going to the wrong places such as nightclubs and having boy/girlfriends.

Also by saying

i think the ulama say its un-desirable, is because the fitna it might cause going from one's house to the mosque. that how islam protects our women.

....are you saying that sisters should not leave their house, even for work and to seek knowledge by going to uni/islamic events/circles.

 

[S_87]

Some mosque's cant even cater for men let alone women, due to resource's money ,size etc.

some, and yes that is understandable..but others? build big beautiful masjids top of the range, state of art, yet no woman allowed.

brother i understand what you are saying but im saying in this time, if youre gonna ban a woman from the masjid ban her from taking one step outside of her home. because out and about has much much much more fitnah...

 

[Isma'el]

fitna is just 1 off several reasons...

Sorry but i jst cant get my head round this" Why go to the mosque knowing ther might b a risk"

When reading at home is far BETTER.

 

[Ann]

I Think this hadith sum's everything up...!! If its better for the si8ster to pray at home then why go to the mosque, surly u get more rewards if its better at home.? then why deprive your self of the rewards..

I understand what your saying brother and even agree but still I think if they want to pray in the masjid they should be allowed to do so. Personally I like praying at home but there are times when I want to go to the masjid because I want to the hear the imam speak. Again though I think they could have gone about it differently or better yet, just go to a masjid that already has a womens section. I dont understand why they drove so far to go to this particular masjid knowing women were not allowed in.

I fear this debate could go on endlessly..so for me I think I'll let it alone now.

 

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumasalamu

I agree that it is a sure sign of foolhardiness for women to have approached attending any Mosque at which there was risk they could have been denied entry. But there are so many facts to the matter that are not here reported, none of us are really in any true situation of being able to find any adequate commentary therefore.

My point that could seem very radical about the women finding another Imam and establishing another Mosque is really only designed to highlight the extent to which we are unable to adequately comment. What seems to be a preposterous idea of a woman establishing Mosque under her kitchen table may have a real context somewhere in the world.

My own tendancy is to regard the story as an indication that there are women whom want to draw attention to the fact that they are feeling disabled by others in the Muslim community. What other context could we take the story in. But then is it that we need to address that context.

Mostly, as Muslims, we need to object to reports of the situations that a minority of Muslim women in 'the west' have found themselves in, of being wrongly discriminated against in their own community. When a minority of Muslims report such events it portrays all Muslims in the wrong light among those non-Muslims around such events. But if there are ever indications that such events are increasing in their severity, or women's complaints of intolerance, then the situation becomes one which all Muslims need redress.

Yet could it perhaps be that the problem can be accorded to the fact that there are decreasing numbers of men existing, and increasing numbers of women? Is it that women are facing marriage to kafir at the heart of such problems? I by no means want to suggest that such is the case in the blackburn incident; but only this day I am reading also about the Muslim woman in Germany whom wrote altogether too publically about being in a forced marriage. Why would any Muslim woman feel any need to speak out? If it seems that Muslim men are failing Muslim women; when we know better than to believe in such occurances; perhaps we need think to an alternative explaination.

I am not claiming to be able to offer a real explaination, and neither can I verify what I am suggesting; but truly we need to begin to consider what the conditions of marital relations are likely to be like for Muslim women when they outnumber men fifty to one. I only mean to suggest that we begin to consider that perhaps this process is already commenced. The question is are there already more male kafir than female and thereby preventing us determining that actual ratio of women to men? I would certainly rather be one in many wives of a single Husband, even in poverty, than be married to a kafir. But perhaps that is not true for all Muslim women. Perhaps what we need most to believe is that we need to provide that kafir are not dangerous company. It is certainly the case here in Australia that I have been most of all ill considered by kafir. They can be worse even than shaytan for failing to believe in their consequences.

InshaAllah all such problems between Muslim men and women can be resolved no matter how difficult the problems are to consider.

wasalam

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

If, however, women decide to go out for prayer at the mosques, they should neither dress nor perfume themselves in a manner that may attract the attention of men. At the mosques, it is an established tradition that women perform their prayers preferably in their own partition behind the rows of men.

So men would be also advised to not wear aftersahve, yes?

 

[Muezzin]

You know, I think we've strayed from the topic.

Again.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

I thought Islam prided itself on giving women so many rights ...

This issue, however, is clearly gender discrimination - no matter how many reasons for protection, fitnah etc people may come up with.

Either Allah himself doesn't want women in his mosques, or men cannot or want not to make provisions for their women to come to mosque, or it is a combination of the both ...
Whichever way, women do not have the same rights to worship Allah as men have ... doesn't seem right to me ... :heated:

I've been saying hte same - It would appear Allah does allow it, but some bigoted muslim men would rather they don't attend as they can't control their 'desires' :rollseyes

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

You know, I think we've strayed from the topic.

Again.

Sorry Muezzin