So Much for 'Father's Day' - in a Country Where Fatherhood is Dying Out

[*charisma*]

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Oh! I am seeking to improve myself ;D Don't you worry. Not wallowing in self pity period ;D In fact, I am able to move on with the new changes and unlike other people will not kill myself or cannot handle the new social change ;D I can form a family myself without been married or getting marriage and I don't need to play the husband role to feel happy. Sure I would like to get married but I also play smart! I will see if there is a wife out there for me and if there isn't then it is not the end of the world. I will have a child on my own already (as I am searching for a wife) that I will raise with or without getting married and what better reward in the afterlife than taking care of an orphan child. Who knows..maybe he does not want me to get married after we formed a brotherly bond and so I wouldn't.

For me, the biggest priority revolve around the child I will adopt who I will raise well (Insha'Allah) and make him into a good merit adult and that to me is enough reward as it is, whether I am in an institutional marriage or not or whether in the future society can have children without men or not it is irrelevant to me. My focus is what I will bring into the table myself and how I do it in manners that pleases Allah alone and that is the ultimate success.

You got it right at the first part but then you went the wrong direction, what your suggesting is not the Islamic way of doing things.

Come on bro your sounding like a male version of a feminist.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you junon;

Salaam

How to destroy a faith, a nation, a people? You begin by destroying the family.

Sadly that is very true. In the UK women became almost an outcast if they had a child out of wedlock until around the 1950's. Then the contraceptive pill came along, this increased the temptation to have sex out of marriage; because there was less chance of getting found out through an unwanted pregnancy.

Once one generation has tasted this freedom, it becomes more acceptable in the following generations. First faith is destroyed because all faiths recognise the importance of marriage, once people walk away from their faith, then marriage and society are destroyed.

In the spirit of praying for faith and Marriage.

Eric

 

[Mandy]

A very wise quote. And one that makes me worry about what my children will have to face when they grow older. Why some people seem to be set on their goals to push their values on other is beyond me. Specially when the damages to families are so clearly visible.

 

[xboxisdead]

Salaam



You got it right at the first part but then you went the wrong direction, what your suggesting is not the Islamic way of doing things.

Come on bro your sounding like a male version of a feminist.

But I love children I really do. I love playing the role of a guardian and I am not getting younger. If I wait way longer I will not even have the energy for that. There is no guarantee I will even find a good wife or last long in marriage or not have a woman who will become feminist in the future. If I adopt now one I can at least focus on having that and take my time to finding one but at least I would have a child in my life. How is that a feminist? Like a woman I have a biological clock ticking against me..but this is not what is between my legs nope...the biological clock is called energy and desire and I am feeling it is sipping away if I do not do action soon.

 

[Mandy]

I think what Junon meant by "male version of a feminist." (malenist???) is that you sometimes sound a bit extreme. Just like feminists sounds like they are power hungry woman who say that all males are rapists just because they are males.

You often say things that make it sound as if you believe all women are manipulative and evil and that we hate men. I am not saying some women cannot be like that. But most of us are far from that.

 

[xboxisdead]

I think what Junon meant by "male version of a feminist." (malenist???) is that you sometimes sound a bit extreme. Just like feminists sounds like they are power hungry woman who say that all males are rapists just because they are males.

You often say things that make it sound as if you believe all women are manipulative and evil and that we hate men. I am not saying some women cannot be like that. But most of us are far from that.

Sister, I am generalizing and that is what that is and it applies to only women who are with those traits. Any woman who don't fall in that category should not be offended or care because it is does not apply to them. But if you have noticed...I have not seen a rally or complain in the entire Earth when society bashes men or boys or generalize men or boys but the second something reverses happen then the above ^ comes in effect. Well...as long as there are generalization for one gender and attack in one gender...I have the right to generalize in the opposite direction and not necessarily attack but defend against such attack. I am not going to be shamed into expressing my feelings toward those evil women who you mentioned are causing a problem. If you have noticed..I am not targeting a Muslima who obeys Allah and his prophets and submit to Allah and read qura'an and perform the sunnah and who is good to her husband. If you have noticed I am targeting only the people who have earned the X on their forehead.

Sister why are you not upset when there are rallys with men wearing a shirt that says, "Men Are Trash"?

I am surprised with that. You see.....there are no support system for boys and men. There is none. It will take a man to talk about men's right and issues and I am been forced into that corner. So I will speak out. Whether I am labeled under a title, I will speak out and as long as there are hate and attack toward men and boys and we are been grouped under the evil men just because we are men...I will speak out.

 

[eesa the kiwi]

Sister, I am generalizing and that is what that is and it applies to only women who are with those traits. Any woman who don't fall in that category should not be offended or care because it is does not apply to them. But if you have noticed...I have not seen a rally or complain in the entire Earth when society bashes men or boys or generalize men or boys but the second something reverses happen then the above ^ comes in effect. Well...as long as there are generalization for one gender and attack in one gender...I have the right to generalize in the opposite direction and not necessarily attack but defend against such attack. I am not going to be shamed into expressing my feelings toward those evil women who you mentioned are causing a problem. If you have noticed..I am not targeting a Muslima who obeys Allah and his prophets and submit to Allah and read qura'an and perform the sunnah and who is good to her husband. If you have noticed I am targeting only the people who have earned the X on their forehead.

Sister why are you not upset when there are rallys with men wearing a shirt that says, "Men Are Trash"?

I am surprised with that. You see.....there are no support system for boys and men. There is none. It will take a man to talk about men's right and issues and I am been forced into that corner. So I will speak out. Whether I am labeled under a title, I will speak out and as long as there are hate and attack toward men and boys and we are been grouped under the evil men just because we are men...I will speak out.

You do realize you are basically the Male version of what you despise. All this ranting about women attacking men when you are just the flipside of the coin the Male version of feminism meninism or whatever its called

This isn't healthy bro let it go

 

[Mandy]

Sister why are you not upset when there are rallys with men wearing a shirt that says, "Men Are Trash"?

I would be very upset about such a rally. Just as I am very upset about rallies of women who protest because I am supposedly an oppressed woman since I wear hijab and try to be the best muslima I can. (yes I know there are such misguided people). But fortunately, even if those people are very vocal and visible, there are not many of them.

What I mean is that the actions you are describing are from a fringe group, but you make them sound like the norm. And your comments are just as extremist as the ones you denounce.


I do not want to offend you, but I am a mother and I have 3 sons. I work very hard to educate them and make sure they learn all about islam and grow up to be good strong muslim men. I love my sons and would do anything for them. So hearing you say that all women just want to destroy boys and keep them from being happy and grow in the men they should be, it simply hurts me very much.

 

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Greetings and peace be with you junon;



Sadly that is very true. In the UK women became almost an outcast if they had a child out of wedlock until around the 1950's. Then the contraceptive pill came along, this increased the temptation to have sex out of marriage; because there was less chance of getting found out through an unwanted pregnancy.

Once one generation has tasted this freedom, it becomes more acceptable in the following generations. First faith is destroyed because all faiths recognise the importance of marriage, once people walk away from their faith, then marriage and society are destroyed.

In the spirit of praying for faith and Marriage.

Eric

Yes, its one of the worst self inflicted wounds Ive ever seen a society do to itself.

Fake families are dyscivilizational

The family is the building block of civilization, particularly the Western form of civilization. That is why the increasing percentage of illegitimate births across the West is such a devastating indicator of civilizational decline.

An increasing number of births happen outside of marriage, signaling cultural and economic shifts that are here to stay, according to a new report from the United Nations.

Forty percent of all births in the U.S. now occur outside of wedlock, up from 10 percent in 1970, according to an annual report released on Wednesday by the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), the largest international provider of sexual and reproductive health services. That number is even higher in the European Union, where 60 percent of births occur outside of marriage.

The EU likely sees more births out of wedlock because many member countries have welfare systems that support gender-balanced child care, said Michael Hermann, UNFPA's senior adviser on economics and demography, in an interview. Public health care systems, paid paternal leave, early education programs and tax incentives give unwed parents support beyond what a partner can provide.

The data show such births in the U.S. and EU are predominantly to unmarried couples living together rather than to single mothers, the report says. The data suggest that societal and religious norms about marriage, childbearing and women in the workforce have changed, said Kelly Jones, the director for the Center on the Economics of Reproductive Health at the Institute for Women’s Policy Research.

Jones also noted that the rise in births outside of marriage is closely correlated to delays in childbearing. “Women are claiming their ground professionally,” she said. “Delaying motherhood is a rational decision when you consider the impact it can have on your career, and that’s contributing to this trend.”

The average age an American woman has her first child is now 27, up from 22 in 1970. As the marriage rate has fallen in the U.S.—and those who do tie the knot do so later in life—the number of adults in cohabiting relationships has steadily risen. This shift is most evident among those under age 35, who represent half of all cohabiting couples.

The traditional progression of Western life “has been reversed,” said John Santelli, a professor in population, family health and pediatrics at Columbia’s Mailman School of Public Health. “Cohabiting partners are having children before getting married. That’s a long-term trend across developing nations.”

This is a direct consequence of the de-Christianization of the West over the last 120 years. As I have repeatedly pointed out, you cannot remove ANY of the three pillars of Western civilization from your society and expect it to survive intact. It will not.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/

 

[xboxisdead]

I would be very upset about such a rally. Just as I am very upset about rallies of women who protest because I am supposedly an oppressed woman since I wear hijab and try to be the best muslima I can. (yes I know there are such misguided people). But fortunately, even if those people are very vocal and visible, there are not many of them.

What I mean is that the actions you are describing are from a fringe group, but you make them sound like the norm. And your comments are just as extremist as the ones you denounce.


I do not want to offend you, but I am a mother and I have 3 sons. I work very hard to educate them and make sure they learn all about islam and grow up to be good strong muslim men. I love my sons and would do anything for them. So hearing you say that all women just want to destroy boys and keep them from being happy and grow in the men they should be, it simply hurts me very much.

Apology sister if I offended you. I respect Muslima sisters as if they are my own sisters and if she is a mother as if she is my own mother. I do not want to even annoy a practicing Muslima and if she wears for the sake of Allah's pleasure only then my respect to her reach such high level that no feminist on Earth who demand that men respect women will ever achieve as a sister who strive to please Allah alone and not demand anything from the creation of Allah and she put her trust only in Allah. So please forgive me if I had offended you and by all means never did I mean all women and never did I implied all women! If it came that way, please I ask for your forgiveness sister. I was simply targeting my frustration on only women who have the X on their foreheads and who have earned jahanam by their own hands and who is causing fasaat around us.

But you have to give me a crumple of bread here with my frustration that there is no net for men when he falls but endless nets for when women fall. Wouldn't you be frustrated too?:heated:

 

[xboxisdead]

Salaam



Yes, its one of the worst self inflicted wounds Ive ever seen a society do to itself.

Fake families are dyscivilizational

The family is the building block of civilization, particularly the Western form of civilization. That is why the increasing percentage of illegitimate births across the West is such a devastating indicator of civilizational decline.



This is a direct consequence of the de-Christianization of the West over the last 120 years. As I have repeatedly pointed out, you cannot remove ANY of the three pillars of Western civilization from your society and expect it to survive intact. It will not.

http://voxday.blogspot.com/

Is this also going to effect Muslim countries too?

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you xboxisdead;

So please forgive me if I had offended you and by all means never did I mean all women and never did I implied all women! If it came that way, please I ask for your forgiveness sister.

I see a glimmer of hope for you xbox, deep down you know what is right.

But you have to give me a crumple of bread here with my frustration that there is no net for men when he falls but endless nets for when women fall. Wouldn't you be frustrated too?

Don't keep playing the victim, we have all been victims in this life. Let go of whatever happened in the past, then just draw a line under it, you can become that stronger and kinder man that you want to be.

In the spirit of praying for a peace that surpasses all understanding,

Eric

 

[xboxisdead]

Greetings and peace be with you xboxisdead;



I see a glimmer of hope for you xbox, deep down you know what is right.




Don't keep playing the victim, we have all been victims in this life. Let go of whatever happened in the past, then just draw a line under it, you can become that stronger and kinder man that you want to be.

In the spirit of praying for a peace that surpasses all understanding,

Eric

Oh i have always been like that..even when I was a little boy of age 10 and up. When I see a Muslimah with hijab I will not look at them directly, I will look away, avoid contacting them or talking to them or annoying or anything because they are non-mahram to me and because I obey Allah and his prophets (since I was that young and younger I never wore ones a short outside the home because I do not want to show my knees. I take wearing hijab for men seriously, because it is ordered by Allah, had I was been commanded to cover my entire body and hair and only show my face..I would have done that since I was 8 and never broke that cycle until I am dead. I would submit and obey and not complain)

However...non-Muslim women to me are men. In fact, i think I heard from a shiekh somewhere that a Muslim woman is not allowed to touch a non-Muslim woman and a Muslim woman is not allowed to remove her hijab in front of a non-Muslim woman and a Muslim woman should not be in the same place alone with a non-Muslim woman. This should tell someone something...no!?

 

[ardianto]

Sense of fatherhood is an instinct which is reflection of love in the heart. You cannot train a boy to have sense of fatherhood if you do not try to raise sense of love in his heart. But if you can raise up the sense of love in his heart, even without you teach him about fatherhood he will learn by himself how to be a good father.

 

[xboxisdead]

Sense of fatherhood is an instinct which is reflection of love in the heart. You cannot train a boy to have sense of fatherhood if you do not try to raise sense of love in his heart. But if you can raise up the sense of love in his heart, even without you teach him about fatherhood he will learn by himself how to be a good father.

If you have train a boy to love something or whip him into submission into loving something then you better stop, please. If fatherhood get instinct because the love of been fathers is ruined and stripped from boys heart then perhaps instead of taking courses and lessons and degrees to TRAIN BOYS TO fall in love with it again, that you may look to see the reason behind such instinction and fix the problem so that perhaps ones day somewhere such love may sprout again.

For example, a boy is excited that one day he will be a father..he love it and you tell him...well your role is insignificant and holds no value...well that is one hammer and nail on his heart you poked a hole into it. Then as he grows older the media promotes only motherhood and glorify it and there is no mention about fathers except is inferior to her in comparison...well that is another nail on his heart we poked on. Then as he grows older he have his mother that does all the parenting and father is nowhere to be seen, he is busy with his friends and busy working and making...so he grows up formulating that the role of fathers are really about just financial means and that is it. Then he thinks, well that can be replaced by anyone else so I have no significant important as such role then you poke another nail on his heart (remember each poking is irreversible). Then he receives messages that it is his obligation and duties and you have to be a man and and...so it is work now..not love and fun but work and hardships and and...so you poke another hole in his heart to further expand that hole (like the destruction of the ozone layer). Such love diminishes as he grows older. He sees in family court fathers are less than animals in rights and that the mother can take and cause mental torture between father and child and that the mother have all the ability to cut ties between father and child and she uses the child as a weapon..he grows to understand that such scenario could happen to himself and he finds that in court and society he have to man up and fight and fight and if he does not fight he is a loser and he is not a good dad and and...so that puts even further hole in the heart for loving such role. He formulates a conclusion that fatherhood stink and stupid and in some cases he hates it. He focus on things he have control over and believe his rights are over and that is not fatherhood.....so if we really care about fatherhood as we say we do...it is now we change our thinking if we ...meh...don't give a damn....


..I mean why are we even having this discussion from the first place @_O?

 

[ardianto]

...meh...don't give a damn....

I didn't mean to give you a ....... I just wanted to share what I know from my experience as father for 20 years, and I hope other parents can learn how to make their boys have sense of fatherhood in the future.

I feel corcerned about what I have seen. There are men who left their their children, left the women who gave birth those inocent children. Men like this do exist, and few of them were my friends. I have seen how those women and children life are. Some of them face hard life in poverty because there is no financial support from the father who live with another woman and neglect them. The rest look luckier because the women have income. But I wonder what those children feel when they see other children look happy with their fathers.

That's happened because those men have no sense of fatherhood. That's why I tried to remind about the importance of sense of fatherhood.

 

[xboxisdead]

I didn't mean to give you a ....... I just wanted to share what I know from my experience as father for 20 years, and I hope other parents can learn how to make their boys have sense of fatherhood in the future.

I feel corcerned about what I have seen. There are men who left their their children, left the women who gave birth those inocent children. Men like this do exist, and few of them were my friends. I have seen how those women and children life are. Some of them face hard life in poverty because there is no financial support from the father who live with another woman and neglect them. The rest look luckier because the women have income. But I wonder what those children feel when they see other children look happy with their fathers.

That's happened because those men have no sense of fatherhood. That's why I tried to remind about the importance of sense of fatherhood.

You have long way for that when we have worked long way and hard and imprinted in the gene of boys that fatherhood is a trashcan role to be thrown away. Don't forget...there are wars on fatherhood and the war is about to be a winner. Don't forget when a boy have any parenting feeling he says I am a mommy, he never says I am a daddy because he find mommy is more stronger than daddy and find mommy is natural..daddy is abnormal. If you are going to do what you say we should do then know it is a lifetime job that you have to instill to boys the importance of fatherhood and you will get benefits in this full time job, and you will need to work until retirement and clienteles are still coming to you like flocks of chickens. So you need new generations of employees to work on such company. You will never have shortage of boys with that issue. Look at me for example, I have volunteered in a musallah (masjid) to teach boys Quraan and memorization and by the way...the media that says boys are stupid and they are immature are the biggest liars I have ever seen. I have never seen such UNBELIEVABLY sharp..SMART...MATURE...arrticulate boys as I have seen in that masjid. Wooof. I felt like I was talking with little men...not boys. They had a mentor....a male mentor and that matured them and turned them into men...FAST. Well...this young men who is no more than 7 years old if not less...talked to me and said to me, "My father hates, he wants nothing to do with me. He was to my mother and he hit me and my mother and so my mother had to run away and he is with another woman now and he loves her children and her and not me." I tried to tell him..that he loves you and cares for you but he was not convinced and he argued, "Noooo..hates me.." and so on. So...a 7 year old if not less than that...said those words.....what do you think he will grow up to be? How do you think he will take his role to be? What you think his opinion toward men will be like? No one cares...let us be honest that is a boy who is crying for help..but he is a boy so no one cares. So why should he care? That will be his thoughts anyways and because that will be his thoughts as a child why should he care...he will formulate that is an ingredients when grows older and will reflect on his behavior as he reach adulthood and he WILL REPEAT the cycle of his father.....in one way or another..he will be another person who will leave his children and go somewhere...JUST...LIKE...HIS....DAD.

Well - claps you on the back - enjoy your new found job ;D ;D ;D

 

[azc]

Oh i have always been like that..even when I was a little boy of age 10 and up. When I see a Muslimah with hijab I will not look at them directly, I will look away, avoid contacting them or talking to them or annoying or anything because they are non-mahram to me and because I obey Allah and his prophets (since I was that young and younger I never wore ones a short outside the home because I do not want to show my knees. I take wearing hijab for men seriously, because it is ordered by Allah, had I was been commanded to cover my entire body and hair and only show my face..I would have done that since I was 8 and never broke that cycle until I am dead. I would submit and obey and not complain) However...non-Muslim women to me are men. In fact, i think I heard from a shiekh somewhere that a Muslim woman is not allowed to touch a non-Muslim woman and a Muslim woman is not allowed to remove her hijab in front of a non-Muslim woman and a Muslim woman should not be in the same place alone with a non-Muslim woman. This should tell someone something...no!?

What kind of hijab you would wear, bro

 

[xboxisdead]

What kind of hijab you would wear, bro

Bare in mind my father died when I was a baby and I had no real male influence at all. I was raised by mother and grandmother so what I understood is that a man should not show his knees. With that I went and never wore shorts ever in my life and wore pants and robes at home all my life since I was a boy. See my pictures as a boy and you will find as I grew a certain age from that age and up all pants, pants, pants, pants, pants..long pants..pants....up to this age I am in right now..pants. Pant, pant, pant (sings). Yup...pants. I also cute my hair, I never grow it long (not that it is wrong) and all my shirts are either long sleeve shirts or short sleeve shirts but not one of them showing my chest or stomach. I love covering myself. I did not realize it..but when I was a little boy...like at 7 or such...I ACTUALLY cry with fountain of tears if I do not have an underwear on. I MUST wear that. I LOVE COVERING MY BODY. LOVE IT. Some men don't wear underwears and I am like are you crazy...but me..nope...even was a kid I love covering my body...LOVED IT!!!! I find.....setra covering my body.....