So the Khan family. We're all good, right?

[M.I.A.]

I disliked trump before he even found an outlet for political views..

although I think he has a plan for censorship of Internet porn..

which would solve all out problems.

..which would be great.

 

[Aaqib]

[MENTION=4566]AbZ[/MENTION] - He isn't fighting innocent people... at least, I don't think anyone considers ISIS innocent people.

And what do you mean by "isn't it better and easier that they spend the resources in establishing Islam and checking sinners in their own country?"? He's fighting for his country... what's bad about that??

 

[Abz2000]

[MENTION=4566]AbZ[/MENTION] - He isn't fighting innocent people... at least, I don't think anyone considers ISIS innocent people.

From what i gather - aside from the lies of the kaafir media which appears to have an irrational difficulty in reporting the truth and breaking it's habit of lying - they were busy trying to establish Islamic rule amongst people in the middle east.

[MENTION=4566] And what do you mean by "isn't it better and easier that they spend the resources in establishing Islam and checking sinners in their own country?"? He's fighting for his country... what's bad about that??

The people who you call "isis" weren't sending troops to America and were highly focused on their own Muslim community which had been under secular rule for almost half a century since the colonisations, actually, it was an observation that set them apart from many other groups that they appeared to have a rule of looking to their own people, so you are at least mistaken, or more probably deceitful in your claim that your father is fighting for his country, btw, i would be intrigued to know when it was that your country which is a piece of clay/mud on the opposite side of the planet developed a mind to think with, and a mouth to speak with for it to tell your father to "fight for it" with authority above that of God. Or is it that your tyrants speak and fabricate on behalf of such an idol as did their pagan predecessors of the past? Is it that ye worship that which ye yourselves carve?


51.*We bestowed aforetime on Abraham his rectitude of conduct, and well were We acquainted with him.
52.*Behold! he said to his father and his people, "What are these images, to which ye are (so assiduously) devoted?"
53.*They said, "We found our fathers worshipping them."
54.*He said, "Indeed ye have been in manifest error - ye and your fathers."
55.*They said, "Have you brought us the Truth, or are you one of those who jest?"
56.*He said, "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, He Who created them (from nothing): and I am a witness to this (Truth).
57.*"And by Allah, I have a plan for your idols - after ye go away and turn your backs"..
58.*So he broke them to pieces, (all) but the biggest of them, that they might turn (and address themselves) to it.
59.*They said, "Who has done this to our gods? He must indeed be some man of impiety!"
60.*They said, "We heard a youth talk of them: He is called Abraham."
61.*They said, "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may bear witness."
62.*They said, "Art thou the one that did this with our gods, O Abraham?"
63.*He said: "Nay, this was done by - this is their biggest one! ask them, if they can speak intelligently!"
64.*So they turned to themselves and said, "Surely ye are the ones in the wrong!"
65.*Then were they confounded with shame: (they said), "Thou knowest full well that these (idols) do not speak!"
66.*(Abraham) said, "Do ye then worship, besides Allah, things that can neither be of any good to you nor do you harm?
67.*"Fie upon you, and upon the things that ye worship besides Allah. Have ye no sense?"..
68.*They said, "Burn him and protect your gods, If ye do (anything at all)!"
69.*We said, "O Fire! be thou cool, and (a means of) safety for Abraham!"
70.*Then they sought a stratagem against him: but We made them the ones that lost most!

From Quran Chapter 21, The Prophets, Yusuf Ali Translation

 

[kritikvernunft]

The only Muslims the US army is attacking is ISIS, and ISIS is in the wrong. You want them to come to America and kill all of us, including the muslims? Doesn't seem so.

The only situation in history, that I know of, in which someone really wanted to kill people just for the sake of killing people, is when Hitler absolutely wanted to kill the Jews. Otherwise, it was always about land, resources, political power, religion, or something in that sense. Whoever the ISIS label is supposed to cover -- even that is not particularly clear -- they are certainly not going to expend that kind of effort just for the sake of killing people. That is very unlikely. It is just too much work! I guess that if Obama stopped sending drones over their heads, they would already calm down quite a bit! ;-)

 

[Abz2000]

The only situation in history, that I know of, in which someone really wanted to kill people just for the sake of killing people, is when Hitler absolutely wanted to kill the Jews. Otherwise, it was always about land, resources, political power, religion, or something in that sense. Whoever the ISIS label is supposed to cover -- even that is not particularly clear -- they are certainly not going to expend that kind of effort just for the sake of killing people. That is very unlikely. It is just too much work! I guess that if Obama stopped sending drones over their heads, they would already calm down quite a bit! ;-)

Oh kritikvernunft, you are either speaking plainly or are illusorily speaking about something else altogether with one eye closed ( wink) and thereby stating that Allah, the master of the universe is with the Muslims and is indeed tormenting certain people for something, either way, nice read.

Just a bit of advice though, if you're speaking plainly, wonderful, but otherwise be aware that Allah played Pharaoh then siezed him when Pharaoh said: "i am your lord most high".

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

@Abz2000

​

I know you won't be able to read my post as I'm on your IB's ignore list. However, I have already told you that if I ever perceive you promoting terrorism in any form, I will be reporting your posts. And I am. Definitely.

I cannot describe the utter repulsion I feel for your extremist position in STILL supporting Daesh after all this time. However, before I do, I'm going to make a post detailing all the fatwa (legal ruling) and general positions about terrorism from Islamic scholars who have utterly condemned Daesh and also Muslim speakers condemning Daesh and also terrorism in any form alongside explanation of jihad.

Whether or not you may benefit from such a subsequent post is irrelevant because you still represent a person too demented to understand why Islamically your position is contemptible and utterly un-Islamic.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Post detailing all the fatwa (legal ruling) and general positions about terrorism from Islamic scholars who have utterly condemned Daesh and also Muslim speakers condemning Daesh and also terrorism in any form alongside explanation of jihad:

1. Talk to Al Jazeera - Former al-Qaeda Mufti: I condemn ISIL attacks (Video)
2. Fatwa on Terrorism and Suicide Bombings (512 page PDF Fatwa)
3. The Crisis of ISIS: A Prophetic Prediction | Sermon by Hamza Yusuf (Video)
4. Sheikh Hamza Yusuf speaking about ISIS (Video)
5. UpFront - Why do people join ISIL? (Video)
6. How 70,000 Muslim Clerics Are Standing Up To Terrorism (Article)
7. Islamic State And What Muslims Need to Be Doing? By Nouman Ali Khan (Video)
8. Mufti Menk On ISIS & Extremism (Video)
9. Does Islam allow Idols to be destroyed like ISIS did? Nouman Ali Khan (Video)
10. Letter to Baghdadi (Letter)
11. Refuting ISIS - Lecture by Syria's Sheikh Muhammad al-Yaqoub
12. ISIS burns alive Jordanian Pilot - Sheikh Dr. Haitham al-Haddad responds (Video)
13. The Dangers of Extremism (ISIS - Al Muhajiroun - Zionists) - Sheikh Abu Usamah At-Thahabi (Video)
14. Historic Islamic Edict (Fatwa) on Joining ISIS/ISIL (Fatwa)
15. Khawarij Ideology, ISIS Savagery: Part One (Article)
16. Muslims Against ISIS Part 1: Clerics & Scholars (Article)
17. MUI: No Need Fatwa, ISIS already Haram (Article)
18. Al-Azhar graduates reject ISIS 'caliphate' (Article)
19. Syrian Islamic Fatwa Council about the state of Iraq and the Levant (Daash) (Article)
20. Syrian Islamic Council (Article)
21. Shaykh Salih Al-Suhaymee (Video)
22. ISIS is a terrorist organization! Explained by Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee (Article)
23. Sheikh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi Interviewed by Syria Comment (Article)
24. Fatwa : Haram Ikut ISIS Dalam Jihad Suriah (Video)
25. ISIS & The Alleged Khilāfah - Shaykh Sālih as Suhaymī (Video)
26. ‘ISIS is enemy No. 1 of Islam,’ says Saudi grand mufti (Article)
27. Don't Blame Others, Blame Yourself (Video)
28. Iraq Sunni Mufti: ISIS and Al Qaeda Slaughtered 300 Sunni Clerics (English Subtitles) (Video)
29. Daesh/Shaytan State are Khawarij (outside Islam) (Video)
30. The Khawarij: ISIS Crisis and the Youth - Brother Alyas Karmani (Video)
31. ISIS 1 of 2: A Historical Analysis of their ideology, and the Kharijites (Video) & ISIS: Historical Analysis of Its Ideology (Kharijites) 2 of 2 (Video)
32. The Khawarij of Our Times (ISIS, Boko Haram, etc) & The True Khilafah (Video)
33. Yayasan Ta'lim: ISIS Is Not Islam [19-03-15] (Video)
34. Egypt's Grand Mufti refuses to call Jihadists in Iraq as Islamic State (Article)
35. ISIS action is worse than genocide: Muslim intellectuals (Article)
36. A statement on the status of al-Shami Jihad and the risks surrounding the scientists dialogue in Riyadh with Mr. Osama Hamdan, Hamas representative in Lebanon D.oled Tabtabai: Istanbul Conference open vistas large to support the Gaza .. and steadfastness revived the role of scientists hunting Media General Supervisor of rational Media Forum for the third satellite is designed to the advancement of media industry (Fatwa)
37. Prominent Muslim Sheikh Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence (Article)
38. Canadian imams issue fatwa against ISIS (Article)
39. Muslim leaders including the Grand Mufti of Australia back fatwa against Islamic State
40. Grand mufti says Daesh un-Islamic (Article)
41. Conclusive scholarly opinions on ISIS (Article)
42. Qaradawi says ‘jihadist caliphate’ violates sharia (Article)
43. Arab League denounces ISIS attacks as “crimes against humanity” (Article)
44. Turkey's top cleric calls new Islamic 'caliphate' illegitimate (Article)
45. Islamic State (IS): Hate, Brutality, Oppression & Mayhem (Article)
46. Leading British Muslims issue fatwa condemning ISIS (Article)
47. ISIS: The Enemy of Islam (Video)
48. On War & Beheading: How ISIS Manipulates Hadiths - Shaykh Faraz Rabbani
49. Jihad: A Misunderstood Concept from Islam - What Jihad is, and is not
50. 24 reasons ISIS are wrong: Muslim scholars blast Islamic State (Article)
51. Shaykh Habib Ali Al-Jifri Refuting ISIS Khawarij Ideology (Video)
52. Concept of Jihad in Islam - Al-Habib Ali Al-Jifri & Hamza Yusuf (Video)

 

[jabeady]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Post detailing all the fatwa (legal ruling) and general positions about terrorism from Islamic scholars who have utterly condemned Daesh and also Muslim speakers condemning Daesh and also terrorism in any form alongside explanation of jihad:

1. Talk to Al Jazeera - Former al-Qaeda Mufti: I condemn ISIL attacks (Video)
2. Fatwa on Terrorism and Suicide Bombings (512 page PDF Fatwa)
3. The Crisis of ISIS: A Prophetic Prediction | Sermon by Hamza Yusuf (Video)
4. Sheikh Hamza Yusuf speaking about ISIS (Video)
5. UpFront - Why do people join ISIL? (Video)
6. How 70,000 Muslim Clerics Are Standing Up To Terrorism (Article)
7. Islamic State And What Muslims Need to Be Doing? By Nouman Ali Khan (Video)
8. Mufti Menk On ISIS & Extremism (Video)
9. Does Islam allow Idols to be destroyed like ISIS did? Nouman Ali Khan (Video)
10. Letter to Baghdadi (Letter)
11. Refuting ISIS - Lecture by Syria's Sheikh Muhammad al-Yaqoub
12. ISIS burns alive Jordanian Pilot - Sheikh Dr. Haitham al-Haddad responds (Video)
13. The Dangers of Extremism (ISIS - Al Muhajiroun - Zionists) - Sheikh Abu Usamah At-Thahabi (Video)
14. Historic Islamic Edict (Fatwa) on Joining ISIS/ISIL (Fatwa)
15. Khawarij Ideology, ISIS Savagery: Part One (Article)
16. Muslims Against ISIS Part 1: Clerics & Scholars (Article)
17. MUI: No Need Fatwa, ISIS already Haram (Article)
18. Al-Azhar graduates reject ISIS 'caliphate' (Article)
19. Syrian Islamic Fatwa Council about the state of Iraq and the Levant (Daash) (Article)
20. Syrian Islamic Council (Article)
21. Shaykh Salih Al-Suhaymee (Video)
22. ISIS is a terrorist organization! Explained by Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee (Article)
23. Sheikh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi Interviewed by Syria Comment (Article)
24. Fatwa : Haram Ikut ISIS Dalam Jihad Suriah (Video)
25. ISIS & The Alleged Khilāfah - Shaykh Sālih as Suhaymī (Video)
26. ‘ISIS is enemy No. 1 of Islam,’ says Saudi grand mufti (Article)
27. Don't Blame Others, Blame Yourself (Video)
28. Iraq Sunni Mufti: ISIS and Al Qaeda Slaughtered 300 Sunni Clerics (English Subtitles) (Video)
29. Daesh/Shaytan State are Khawarij (outside Islam) (Video)
30. The Khawarij: ISIS Crisis and the Youth - Brother Alyas Karmani (Video)
31. ISIS 1 of 2: A Historical Analysis of their ideology, and the Kharijites (Video) & ISIS: Historical Analysis of Its Ideology (Kharijites) 2 of 2 (Video)
32. The Khawarij of Our Times (ISIS, Boko Haram, etc) & The True Khilafah (Video)
33. Yayasan Ta'lim: ISIS Is Not Islam [19-03-15] (Video)
34. Egypt's Grand Mufti refuses to call Jihadists in Iraq as Islamic State (Article)
35. ISIS action is worse than genocide: Muslim intellectuals (Article)
36. A statement on the status of al-Shami Jihad and the risks surrounding the scientists dialogue in Riyadh with Mr. Osama Hamdan, Hamas representative in Lebanon D.oled Tabtabai: Istanbul Conference open vistas large to support the Gaza .. and steadfastness revived the role of scientists hunting Media General Supervisor of rational Media Forum for the third satellite is designed to the advancement of media industry (Fatwa)
37. Prominent Muslim Sheikh Issues Fatwa Against ISIS Violence (Article)
38. Canadian imams issue fatwa against ISIS (Article)
39. Muslim leaders including the Grand Mufti of Australia back fatwa against Islamic State
40. Grand mufti says Daesh un-Islamic (Article)
41. Conclusive scholarly opinions on ISIS (Article)
42. Qaradawi says ‘jihadist caliphate’ violates sharia (Article)
43. Arab League denounces ISIS attacks as “crimes against humanity” (Article)
44. Turkey's top cleric calls new Islamic 'caliphate' illegitimate (Article)
45. Islamic State (IS): Hate, Brutality, Oppression & Mayhem (Article)
46. Leading British Muslims issue fatwa condemning ISIS (Article)
47. ISIS: The Enemy of Islam (Video)
48. On War & Beheading: How ISIS Manipulates Hadiths - Shaykh Faraz Rabbani
49. Jihad: A Misunderstood Concept from Islam - What Jihad is, and is not
50. 24 reasons ISIS are wrong: Muslim scholars blast Islamic State (Article)
51. Shaykh Habib Ali Al-Jifri Refuting ISIS Khawarij Ideology (Video)
52. Concept of Jihad in Islam - Al-Habib Ali Al-Jifri & Hamza Yusuf (Video)

Search... I have copied your post and saved it offline. I intend to repost it whenever and wherever I read the common assertion by those who don't know better, that Muslims don't or haven't disavowed terrorism. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

@kritikvernunft

I apologize for misunderstanding. However, you have to understand that many of your thoughts are extreme. I don't know enough to know one way or another why you would want to revert - however, the reason I hope you would revert is that you see Islam as the Truth and not because you believe it is a religion in which you mistakenly believe you can take extreme positions because Islam rejects extremism.

Also, I looked at your explanation of Syrian refugees infiltrating European Union, and I find your rhetoric similar to right wing groups in Europe and even in the U.S. who irrationally believe that there is some "conspiracy" of sending refugees to the EU to weaken the countries with the goal of an internal combustion. I find that reasoning invalid because I see it as falling into logical fallacy known as "Failing Occam's Razor" which holds that the simplest explanation of any situation is likely to be true. So, for example, a person didn't study for the physics test and then receives a failing grade and instead concludes that the reason the teacher gave him that grade is because the teacher didn't like him. However, the simplest explanation of the failing grade is that he failed to study and therefore failed to answer the questions correctly and therefore rightfully earned that failing grade. In this situation, the simplest explanation is that Syria has become a hellhole with the war and with Daesh currently brutally vying for power in the region against the brutal regime of Assad and brutalization of his forces. In the migration process, the Syrian refugees knew they might die but with the way things were and still are in Syria, they were likely to die anyway and so they chose the option that they felt would offer them a chance to escape the country and maybe find a semblance of stability and chance at a normal life without war.

Secondly, you're right that all of the events currently unfolding are God's plans. And Islamic end-time prophecies do not support what you're saying because in the end the battle that will take place immediately leading to Armageddon will be WWIII between Christian-majority nations and that means probably Russia and America as I once heard an Islamic scholar once also say. And the war of ideas doesn't happen until after one of them wins and then after that there really is an ideological war and physical war that occurs between on one side, Jesus alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) alongside the believers with Mahdi alayhis salaam (peace be upon him) against Dajjal (Anti-Christ) and his evil forces. For example, right now in the world, there is too much confusion and no one knows who is the standard-bearer of truth and who is the standard-bearer of falsehood. However, in that latter time to which I'm referring, the sifting of that confusion has already occurred and the war will literally be between good vs. evil, truth vs. falsehood.

Do I sound like someone who would join a losing proposition? If Islam had no chance of succeeding, do you really believe that I would be interested?

Ok. Say that the plan was to inject 5+ million Syrians into the European Union.
Half of the plan has succeeded already, because 2+ million Syrians have made it into the European Union already.
So, now my question: Are things going wrong right now, or are they going pretty much according to plan?

You may be confusing the real goals and real instruments.
The conflict will obviously be won by infiltration.
Bombings and shootings do not matter on the long run. They only make lots of noise, but they rarely achieve lasting results.

The civil war in Syria has not allowed whatsoever to the kafir to infiltrate Syria. It has allowed millions of Syrians to infiltrate the European Union. Erdogan tried to negotiate, and to turn the Syrian infiltration into more of a Turkish infiltration, by exacting "visa-free travel", out of his adversaries, for the Turks. Erdogan almost succeeded, actually. I must admit that his tactics reveal a very skilful player.

Difficult to say. Everything that happens, is always in one way or the other the will of the Creator of this universe, i.e. our Most Beloved Master, the One God, Allah.

If you mostly look at things that do not matter, you will get the wrong impression of what is going on.

Islam is obviously doing fantastically fine. That is exactly what the enemies of Islam are saying too, all the time, and they are absolutely right, but I can imagine that you do not see it! ;-)

Let me give you a historical example. The Roman empire kept persecuting and executing Christians, until in 313 in the Donatus Constantini, Christianity became official state religion of the Roman Empire, and started persecuting the pagans. The Christians did not win one single military battle against the pagans; not even one. They lost every possible battle, but still went on to spectacularly win the war. In another example, you can see that the North Vietnamese did not win one single military battle against the United States. Not one. They still went on to most decisively win the war.

In other words, military battles and their outcomes are usually unimportant. If you win a battle, but you cannot prevent the enemy from standing up and fighting again, you will lose the war, no matter how many battles that you have won, and will win, because in those circumstances, you will always lose the final battle. You can only defeat the enemy, if you can break his will to fight. It is utterly impossible to do that with weapons. However, if you make him doubt about his own beliefs, while you do not doubt yours, that is when you will have won.

 

[Serinity]

well, lets see how westerners see it:

They think all this terrorism comes from Islam, they think that the Qur'an supports those terrorists who kill people just because they are kafirs / non - Muslims. They think that the Qur'an actively endorses and commands terrorism, and complete intolerance towards every religion. To kill every non-muslim, regardless of religion. They think Shariah is to take over the whole world, and get rid of all non muslims..

And they think that Muslims think of non-muslims as lower-beings, etc.

Surely, USA has been bombing Middle east. And surely the Media does propaganda against Islam. And surely many think Islam and The Qur'an endorses terrorism, and that The angry Muslims, are true Muslims.

While those Muslims in the west who are nice and stuff have watered down their religion - if you want to see a real Muslim go to the middle east, they'll kill you.

you can't even call this watered down version of Islam, Islam, anymore. - That is how non-muslims think (or of what I've come to know)

So: Angry Muslim: Real Muslim. Kind Muslim: Someone who doesn't understand Islam.

Joining a kafir army and supporting a kafir army against Muslims is kufr, disbelief. assuming that USA is an enemy of Islam, it is. But I dare not make takfeer as things are way too unclear atm.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

 

[Aaqib]

well, lets see how westerners see it:

They think all this terrorism comes from Islam, they think that the Qur'an supports those terrorists who kill people just because they are kafirs / non - Muslims. They think that the Qur'an actively endorses and commands terrorism, and complete intolerance towards every religion. To kill every non-muslim, regardless of religion. They think Shariah is to take over the whole world, and get rid of all non muslims..

And they think that Muslims think of non-muslims as lower-beings, etc.

Surely, USA has been bombing Middle east. And surely the Media does propaganda against Islam. And surely many think Islam and The Qur'an endorses terrorism, and that The angry Muslims, are true Muslims.

While those Muslims in the west who are nice and stuff have watered down their religion - if you want to see a real Muslim go to the middle east, they'll kill you.

you can't even call this watered down version of Islam, Islam, anymore. - That is how non-muslims think (or of what I've come to know)

So: Angry Muslim: Real Muslim. Kind Muslim: Someone who doesn't understand Islam.

Joining a kafir army and supporting a kafir army against Muslims is kufr, disbelief. assuming that USA is an enemy of Islam, it is. But I dare not make takfeer as things are way too unclear atm.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

I don't understand.. how is it kufr? It's protecting your country, ISIS are muslims who are extreme/promote violence... C'mon, just because they're muslim, we can't attack them?! That's ludicrous. The USA isn't an enemy of Islam, how? What do you mean by "enemy of Islam"?

Seriously, I don't understand this at all.

 

[Serinity]

I don't understand.. how is it kufr? It's protecting your country, ISIS are muslims who are extreme/promote violence... C'mon, just because they're muslim, we can't attack them?! That's ludicrous. The USA isn't an enemy of Islam, how? What do you mean by "enemy of Islam"?

Seriously, I don't understand this at all.

I said assuming they are an Enemy of Islam.

Tbh I am confused too. But the fact that US bombs syria makes me think it is Haram to participate in the Army, and may even be kufr as you are actively supporting bombing civilians.

The media supports propaganda against Islam. Media is from the West. IF the US Army REALLY Wanted to attack Daesh/extremists. They should NOT use drones, and they SHOULD not destroy infrastructure.

I can't find a reason as to why and how it is justifable or Islamic to support US when they bomb Muslims, too.

Extremism is obviously haram and against/contrary to Islam.

 

[jabeady]

Search says in a reply, "Secondly, you're right that all of the events currently unfolding are God's plans."

Devout Christians also believe this, so I have a question to all of you: If everything happens according to God's plans, why complain? Why complain about anything? Why protest? Why resist? Why rebel?

 

[Aaqib]

Serinity I never said I supported the bombing of civilians, I support the ACTUAL FIGHTING against ISIS, the killings against civilians are disgusting, and my dad wouldn't do that.

I agree that the US shouldn't use drones and all that, but the main mission is to destroy the extremist ISIS.

 

[jabeady]

I can't find a reason as to why and how it is justifable or Islamic to support US when they bomb Muslims, too.

I know I'm going to get an argument from this, but when the US kills civilians, it's usually either an accident or unavoidable. When the enemy hides among the general population, noncombatants are going to suffer.

Daesh, OTOH, kills Muslims on purpose, and is very savage and brutal about it. I don't understand how Muslims can support them.

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

And you're not understanding what I'm trying to say in return either! There seems to have existed a difference of scholarly opinion on joining the U.S. army as the fatwa (legal ruling) that I posted in my first post on this thread even indicates. What did Prophet :saws: say about differences of fiqh (Islamic legal) opinion? That they were a mercy for the ummah (nation). So, you bracketing Humayun Khan in a category that seems to fit in with your worldview of us vs. them is not necessarily the one that Humayun Khan followed or even one that I accept.

Islamophobia is currently a multi-million dollar industry, and the dollar signs are the reason people get into this business and not because they really hate Islam (though some of them might, but that does not take away from the fact that most of them in it are there for the moolah). The logical fallacy that you are making is called "failing Occam's razor" which holds that the simplest explanation of any situation is the most likely true explanation. Islamophobic pundits are rich, and getting richer, because there is an audience for this market that wants to buy into the us vs. them thing. So, again, I do not believe there is a "war on Islam" as there is the simplest explanation behind the phenomena which is atavistic greed.

Again, I have said before that I do have sympathy for Muslims' death toll in Muslim-majority countries. However, what I take objection to is the idea that Muslims who live in Western lands must somehow are not addressing the death toll of Muslims in Muslim-majority countries; they are. Muslims have in the past alongside their non-Muslim brethren tried to ensure that politicians who get voted into office are not warmongering politicians. In fact, electing of President Obama was largely about how tired non-Muslims and Muslims were in the United States about participating in this war, especially after Iraq War had been exposed to have been constructed on a political lie. However, just because the electorate want one thing doesn't mean that the political leaders who promise such things have the same goals and agendas as they progress through their terms in office; President Obama, for example, we know continued to use drones on Muslim-majority countries. However, that is not the fault of the electorate that voted in good conscience a leader who they thought would bring change and peace in the U.S. At the end of the day, we're not God and therefore cannot do more than that. Muslims in Western countries are also not unified or strong enough yet to be able to lobby for our interests to ensure that Muslim-majority countries are not attacked, but Muslims and non-Muslims are trying and I take objection to the fact that you dismiss that effort altogether.

Finally, I understand that I'm privileged because I live in the First World; I do not deny that privilege and therefore you are right that I cannot completely understand the horrors of those who live in the Third World. However, just because I have not experienced the horrors, does not mean that my sympathy is any less. I assume, for example, that you have two hands and two legs. However, I assume you are still able to sympathize with the plight of an individual who is handicapped or paralyzed. Do you really believe that you need to be handicapped and/or paralyzed too in order to feel "true" sympathy for people who are? If so, I find that position devoid of understanding of human emotions.

At the end of the day, I'd remind you that if the ummah (nation) is suffering and I do not deny its suffering, Prophet :saws: (peace and blessings be upon him) asked us to be patient until we can be granted relief and remember that everything is Allah's Plan and therefore any relief can also only come from Allah.

:wa: (And peace be upon you)

Wa'alaikum as'salaam,

it seems that you are reading but not comprehending. I'm not the one making Takfir. I'm putting the two together for you, one, a muslim joining the kuffar army to go kill Muslims, invade and occupy a Muslim land and two, what the scholars say on the matter.

Since quoting the relevant portion did not help, i suggest visiting the site to read the whole passage in its entirety.

https://islamqa.info/en/33691

Sadly, you failed to comprehend this point as well. IF we do not address the holocaust of the Muslims then who will? I said there is a war ON Islam not with Islam. There is a war ON Islam and ON Muslims. The holocaust of 20 million Muslims, the invasion and total destruction of Muslim nations and the continued occupation and war mongering of more Muslim lands is the testament to that.

Stop trying to be a diplomatic Muslimah and open your eyes. Don't act so high and mighty just because your family wasn't wiped out, raped or burnt and pissed on. Those that were were also your brothers/sisters in Islam.

O you who have believed, do not take as intimates those other than yourselves, for they will not spare you [any] ruin. They wish you would have hardship. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is far greater. We have certainly made clear to you the signs, if you will use reason. [3:118]

 

[Serinity]

Serinity I never said I supported the bombing of civilians, I support the ACTUAL FIGHTING against ISIS, the killings against civilians are disgusting, and my dad wouldn't do that.

I agree that the US shouldn't use drones and all that, but the main mission is to destroy the extremist ISIS.

I know I'm going to get an argument from this, but when the US kills civilians, it's usually either an accident or unavoidable. When the enemy hides among the general population, noncombatants are going to suffer.

Daesh, OTOH, kills Muslims on purpose, and is very savage and brutal about it. I don't understand how Muslims can support them.

I am not saying to support ISIS either as they kill and do so many injustices/unislamic things, to my knowledge.

They can march on foot, rather than bomb unprecisely.

AFAIK, one can not fight for Democracy, but only Shariah.

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

Let me try to take a stab at answering this question. While everything is according to God's plan, we don't know what God's Plans are and we are held responsible for every individual action or individual reaction and collectively both as a humanity therefore we must ensure that the world a is fair and just place.

God's plan is our free will, but we are not to abuse our free will to oppress or be oppressed. So, while God has given us free will as part of His plan and also specific events in the world occur as part of His plan, we're not exempt from being accountable and trying to do our best.

The reason that believers of any faith complain about anything is because we're not patient and do not have rida (contentment) with God's Will. Islam means submission to God's Will, and it is hard as flawed human beings to find patience and contentment with things when things do not go according to our desires and accept God's Will and Plan over our own. A good Islamic lecture on this topic is Reliance on Allah: The Cure for an Ummah in Crisis.

Search says in a reply, "Secondly, you're right that all of the events currently unfolding are God's plans."

Devout Christians also believe this, so I have a question to all of you: If everything happens according to God's plans, why complain? Why complain about anything? Why protest? Why resist? Why rebel?

 

[jabeady]

I am not saying to support ISIS either as they kill and do so many injustices/unislamic things, to my knowledge.

They can march on foot, rather than bomb unprecisely.

AFAIK, one can not fight for Democracy, but only Shariah.

Your way of thinking and mine seem to be fairly close. I have always felt that the only way to win a war is to go after them with irresistible force and absolutely crush them. Unfortunately, I'm not the President.

The problem nowadays is that the US is tired, after 15 years of war. I know, the Middle East is just as tired, but it doesn't have the options of either just quitting or fighting at a distance. The US has those options, and a lot of people see no reason for a ground war. It really gets complicated when you realize that Donald Trump would be the President most likely to send in troops, but God only knows what else he'd do; I read a news story the other day, wondering how long it would take Trump to launch a nuclear weapon.

Regarding Shariah v Democracy, the only thing that matters to me is that the citizens can at least tolerate it. When the Soviet Union broke up, Russia initially tried to institute American style democracy; it didn't take long, though, for the present system to take hold, resembling a marriage of Czarist Russia and the Supreme Soviet. The saying that Russia needs a czar seems to be true.

We also seem to forget that American democracy didn't just appear one day, it was the result of at least 200 years of philosophical thought and British neglect. What we see in America today is the result of another two centuries of growth.

My point is, political and legal systems are like plants. They grow naturally over time, and only in certain settings. You could transplant a Scotch Pine tree to Tunisia just as "easily" as you could impose American democracy on Iran, or Shariah on China.

BTW, you might be interested in this story. Or, just Google Dearborn Muslims for other articles: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/02/dearborn-mi-where-muslims-are-americans.html

 

[Search]

:bism: (In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

I disagree with the use of drones. And I do think we as a country are many times irresponsible in the way we use them.

The aforesaid does not excuse Daesh, however, in the slightest.

However, as to why some irrational Muslims would support Daesh, it is because they are too angry and yes even hypocritical to care about the irrationality of such a support position. For example, the emotional appeal Daesh makes to some susceptible Muslims is the death toll on account of drones as such. So, on one hand, Daesh foments anger against deaths of innocent Muslims elsewhere in the globe. And on the other hand, Daesh themselves go out of their way and kill and have successfully killed uncountable Muslims. For example, 6 Muslims died in Paris Attacks, 1/3 of the victims in the Nice Attack were Muslims, only Muslims died in the Turkish airport attack, and so on and so forth this does not include the Muslims in Syria who opposed Daesh and are dead for their show of opposition.

However, my disgust and opposition to Daesh doesn't hinge on Muslim death tolls, rather their deliberate plans that include non-Muslim deaths. Daesh are absolutely gung-ho about killing non-Muslim civilians in other countries and even in Syria, which from my worldview is disgusting and the most heinous un-Islamic position to take. Daesh's publications are psychopathic and celebratory about such deaths. In Islam, if you even kill one innocent life, it is as if you have killed all of humanity as the Quran says, yet these extremists do not care about that.

On another site, I had the misfortune of speaking with some idiotic Daesh supporters and received death threats for trying to show them the irrationality of their position from Quran and Sunnah and fatwas (legal rulings). However, one good thing is that I have seen on that site that even the few who used to support Daesh do not any longer, and yet Abz2000 here is an exception to that rule on IB.

I know I'm going to get an argument from this, but when the US kills civilians, it's usually either an accident or unavoidable. When the enemy hides among the general population, noncombatants are going to suffer.

Daesh, OTOH, kills Muslims on purpose, and is very savage and brutal about it. I don't understand how Muslims can support them.