Spirituality v/s Religion

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cali dude said:
Well this is true. One only feels the need to follow a religious because s/he doesn't have enough logic of her/his own.
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But religious people recognise that their religion is the word of God, which is why they place it's ruling above their own thoughts, because they recognise it to be from God and are not so arrogant to think themselves better than God.

They often do things just because religion says so and they often admit so as well.
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As I said before, that is because they believe that it is God who commanded them to do that, and they are not so arrogant as to believe themselves wiser than God.

If someone had ability to see for sure what's God's word and what's not, don't you think that person would be equivalent to a prophet.
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No, a Prophet is someone who was sent by God and has certainty that what he is teaching is from God because God told Him so. God gives his prophets signs which the people may us to recognise that he is sent by God. He also gave us a 'fitrah'- which is like a natural inclination, so we have a natural bias towards recognising the truth, specifically the oneness of God.

You will know if you have the 'God-given' wisdom and logic will determine if someone is being honest about the wisdom...
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I'm not so sure I understand what you mean here, and also, how can you believe in God given wisdom if you didn't learn this from a religion? Because only God can teach us something like that.

SilentObserver said:
What about those that have used intelligence and logic and concluded that islam is not the true religion, and was not revealed by God,
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I do not think true intelligence can lead on away from Islam. Allah mentions in the Quran that the people of hell fire will say:

And they will say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!"
[67:10]​

yet these things still seem wrong to many people, there must be something else that makes us feel that something is wrong, no?
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That can be for many reasons. Environment and culture play a part, and so does the natural inclination in man (which God has placed in us) to recognise good from evil.
 
SilentObserver said:
Proof is required of such a statement. How do you know this of God?
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Thanks, not only did I find you proof, also found the proof that God hates people too.

"Certainly He (Allah) likes not the extravagant."
(Qur'an: Translation of the meaning, 7:31)​

Allah said (in a hadith, not Quran):

I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6502.​

And:

The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "When Allah Almighty loves a slave, He calls out to Jibril, 'Allah Almighty loves so-and-so, so love him!' and Jibril loves him. Then a call goes out among the people of heaven, ''Allah Almighty loves so-and-so, so love him!' and the people of heaven love him. Then acceptance is placed in the earth for him. When He hates a slave, He calls out to Jibril, 'Allah Almighty hates so-and-so, so hate him!' and Jibril hates him. Then a call goes out among the people of heaven, ''Allah Almighty hates so-and-so, so hate him!' and the people of heaven hate him. Then hatred is placed in the earth for him."

Sahih Muslim​

SilentObserver said:
Well that's where I think you have gone wrong, as I don't believe the Quran to be spoken from God.
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You have your opinion, I have mine.
 
Malaikah said:
Thanks, not only did I find you proof, also found the proof that God hates people too.

"Certainly He (Allah) likes not the extravagant."
(Qur'an: Translation of the meaning, 7:31)​

Allah said (in a hadith, not Quran):

I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6502.​

And:

The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "When Allah Almighty loves a slave, He calls out to Jibril, 'Allah Almighty loves so-and-so, so love him!' and Jibril loves him. Then a call goes out among the people of heaven, ''Allah Almighty loves so-and-so, so love him!' and the people of heaven love him. Then acceptance is placed in the earth for him. When He hates a slave, He calls out to Jibril, 'Allah Almighty hates so-and-so, so hate him!' and Jibril hates him. Then a call goes out among the people of heaven, ''Allah Almighty hates so-and-so, so hate him!' and the people of heaven hate him. Then hatred is placed in the earth for him."

Sahih Muslim​
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Unfortunately, this is not proof for me.
 
Then perhaps we should be discussing why it is not proof for you, instead of wasting time discussing secondary aspects of the religion?
 
Don't you think you should take this to another thread? :? Perhaps my thread about prophet Muhammad pbuh?
 
cali dude said:
Spiritually wise people wouldn't be interfering with other people's lives. So, there wouldn't be any conflicts. But there would be laws to punish those who interferred with other people's lives...
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what would a spiritually wise person do if his country was being attacked? Sit there and meditate? :rolleyes:
 
My point was that it should be the main discussion in and of itself.
 
I enjoy the feeling I get when I take my annual canoe trip. I float out in my canoe, surrounded by nothing but the wilderness. No phones ringing, no other human beings within kilometres of me. I listen to nature. I get filled with a sense that I can not describe.

I see nothing whatsoever supernatural in this.

Can this qualify as Spiritulity?
 
Pygoscelis said:
I enjoy the feeling I get when I take my annual canoe trip. I float out in my canoe, surrounded by nothing but the wilderness. No phones ringing, no other human beings within kilometres of me. I listen to nature. I get filled with a sense that I can not describe.

I see nothing whatsoever supernatural in this.

Can this qualify as Spiritulity?
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lol...you sound like a Romantic. Not in the flowers and candy sense, I mean the Romantic era literature. The "Oh Wow! a Cow!" view of nature. Couldn't resist the connection since I'm reading some old Romantic literature.
 
cali dude said:
Spiritually wise people...
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How are we suppossed to know them? and even if we do, Then their would be fights because if one person is considered spiritually wise by a group of people the others might consider someone else as spiritually wise! and the both spiritually wise people might not agree with each others laws!
 
Muslimah_Sis said:
what would a spiritually wise person do if his country was being attacked? Sit there and meditate? :rolleyes:
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Although a religiously wise person know that s/he shouldn't interfere with other people's lives, s/he for sure also knows that nobody should interfere with her/his life...
 
Corrrection: the above statement should read, "Although a spiritually wise person know that s/he shouldn't interfere with other people's lives, s/he for sure also knows that nobody should interfere with her/his life."
 
lyesh said:
How are we suppossed to know them? and even if we do, Then their would be fights because if one person is considered spiritually wise by a group of people the others might consider someone else as spiritually wise! and the both spiritually wise people might not agree with each others laws!
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Very good question...

Unfortunately, most people don't recognize the spiritually wise people, but with time, it seems like that most democratic/civilized countries are slowly realizing this. But also there is an external force (religious fanatics) that keeps creeping in trying to destroy it all.
 

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