Spirituality v/s Religion

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Something to think about though. Some of the religious people think that God hates. This is pretty scary. Those people who think God hates might end up doing the same themselves thinking that they are pleasing God.
 
cali dude said:
Something to think about though. Some of the religious people think that God hates. This is pretty scary. Those people who think God hates might end up doing the same themselves thinking that they are pleasing God.
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So God creates us, there's evil on the earth [as a trial] and God doesn't dislike that evil? If God just 'loved' every single action the creation did, then there's no wrong? Which mean's the creation can do as much corruption as it wants without fearing punishment of any sort?
 
Fi_Sabilillah said:
So God creates us, there's evil on the earth [as a trial] and God doesn't dislike that evil? If God just 'loved' every single action the creation did, then there's no wrong? Which mean's the creation can do as much corruption as it wants without fearing punishment of any sort?
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I think I said this on other page as well. The way it makes sense to me is that there is something that can be called law of nature in place. Every action has certain outcome. Every action that has positive outcome leads us in positive direction and every action that has negative outcome leads in negative direction. The positive and negative outcomes of our action affect our personalities. For example, having bitter nature is negative as it is but expressing our bitterness towards someone further negatively affect our personalities.

More negative in our personalities we have, farther from God we are because God is all positive. There is nothing negative about God.

So if you like you can consider distance from God as punishment :) But if you hate someone thinking that s/he is doing something negative, you are only hurting yourself first as it affects your own personality negatively and widening the distance from God.
 
Hey cali. :)


Thanks, for your opinion.


According to islaam, we give the person advice in a kind way so they understand. This is shown through many examples in the lives of the prophets, and in hadith where its mentioned that kindness adorns something whereas when its removed it disgraces it.


Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate! [Qur'an 41:34]
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We believe that God is the All-Just, so anyone who does bad without turning back to God in sincere repentance will be punished for the evil that they did. The same way those who do good to please God Alone will be rewarded for the good they did. This shows that God is the All-Just.

If God never punished the one's who do bad and harm others, it wouldn't be fair. The same way if God never rewarded the one's who do good for His sake, it wouldn't be fair either.


We believe that God only does what befit's His Majesty so He isn't unjust to His servants, He is only punishing them for the evil that they do, or rewarding them for the good that they do for His sake. Which mean's that God isn't evil, rather we either get rewarded or punished because of our own actions. :)



Regards.
 
Yes there could be problem when you start acting God. It makes you responsible for doing something you are not made to, thus doing bad yourself and deserving punishment yourself.
 
cali dude said:
Although a religiously wise person know that s/he shouldn't interfere with other people's lives, s/he for sure also knows that nobody should interfere with her/his life...
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Couldn't that under some circumstance be considered selfish, or at least asocial and unempathic?
 
cali dude said:
Corrrection: the above statement should read, "Although a spiritually wise person know that s/he shouldn't interfere with other people's lives, s/he for sure also knows that nobody should interfere with her/his life."
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why that's not any kind of answer is it.. knowing something doesn't prevent it from happening... so what should they do if they/their family/country are being harrassed, attacked etc etc...?
 
Muslimah_Sis said:
why that's not any kind of answer is it.. knowing something doesn't prevent it from happening... so what should they do if they/their family/country are being harrassed, attacked etc etc...?
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Once we know it we will take actions to prevent it. I thought you would understand from my previous post :)
 
cali dude said:
Very good question...

Unfortunately, most people don't recognize the spiritually wise people, but with time, it seems like that most democratic/civilized countries are slowly realizing this. But also there is an external force (religious fanatics) that keeps creeping in trying to destroy it all.
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that's the point! many people dont recognize them... and even if they are there because we are human we all dont agree upon the same thing! and there is never going to be a same law within us if we make them.
think about this... one of the spiritual law makers die... other one comes up... makes his own laws... some people dislike it... others like it... leads to fights!
but if we obey the laws which was given by our creator then nobody who truly believes in him could say that the the creator has made the laws wrong!
 
The difference here though is that man-made laws can be amended but religious laws become impossible to change even if they are inhumane...
 
cali dude said:
The difference here though is that man-made laws can be amended but religious laws become impossible to change even if they are inhumane...
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that makes the laws fit! otherwise you never know how this world would be today! and even if some people thinks that the laws are inhumane, God knows best what suits us! And laws are to be done because of us human behaviour! how can we beleive that the human who makes these crimes makes their own laws and its better :uuh:

*btw im not saying that ur referring to Islamic laws, but if u are reffering to us, true muslims believe 100% that the laws Allah made for us are the best for human!*
 
lyesh said:
that makes the laws fit! otherwise you never know how this world would be today! and even if some people thinks that the laws are inhumane, God knows best what suits us! And laws are to be done because of us human behaviour! how can we beleive that the human who makes these crimes makes their own laws and its better :uuh:

*btw im not saying that ur referring to Islamic laws, but if u are reffering to us, true muslims believe 100% that the laws Allah made for us are the best for human!*
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first of all, beliefs are just that, beliefs, not facts...

a belief can't be proven to be true...

can you prove that leaving islam is wrong, then why death sentence for someone who does?

i hope the answer isn't prophet said so...

i expect you to prove it...
 
lyesh said:
that makes the laws fit! otherwise you never know how this world would be today! and even if some people thinks that the laws are inhumane, God knows best what suits us! And laws are to be done because of us human behaviour! how can we beleive that the human who makes these crimes makes their own laws and its better :uuh:
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Obviously, it's not the criminals who make law. it the civilized people who value humanity make the law...
 
cali dude said:
first of all, beliefs are just that, beliefs, not facts...

a belief can't be proven to be true...

can you prove that leaving islam is wrong, then why death sentence for someone who does?

i hope the answer isn't prophet said so...

i expect you to prove it...
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A person enters Islam by his/ her own will! We muslims never force people to our religion :) While he/ she enters it he/ she should believe everything about Islam. And on top of all to believe in Allah and that He's the most Knowledgeble! The simple human mind can never go beyond Allah's Wisdom.
The person who enters and leaves it knows this very well that Allah knows everything! and who knows.. that person's punishment at hell fire might be even smaller! God knows everything better than us!!!!
 
cali dude said:
Obviously, it's not the criminals who make law. it the civilized people who value humanity make the law...
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no human is sinless! even this person who value humanity might do things against his own made laws! and he even might interfere or place damage in someone else's life!
 
lyesh said:
A person enters Islam by his/ her own will! We muslims never force people to our religion :) While he/ she enters it he/ she should believe everything about Islam. And on top of all to believe in Allah and that He's the most Knowledgeble! The simple human mind can never go beyond Allah's Wisdom.
The person who enters and leaves it knows this very well that Allah knows everything! and who knows.. that person's punishment at hell fire might be even smaller! God knows everything better than us!!!!
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In other words, you couldn't prove that leaving Islam is wrong. It's simply your belief. Since God knows it all. He may very well be guiding the person leaving Islam. So nobody has right to kill him. In fact, the people who do kill him might be going against God's will and committing sins...
 
Muslimah_Sis said:
what kind of actions? Plz be specific. :-\
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It depends on what the person does. The main objective should be to stop him/her from doing anything that's offensive. If the what they are doing is not so severe and can be resolved with talks or kindness, that should be the first thing to do. In civilized countries, there is law in place. So, you could take that route if the crime is severe enough. But if you have no other choice but to fight back, then you fight back.

But the main objective should be only to prevent that from doing it again, but not harm them or taking revenge against them...
 
lyesh said:
no human is sinless! even this person who value humanity might do things against his own made laws! and he even might interfere or place damage in someone else's life!
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That would apply that even those religionists are not free of sins. You have to be sin free even to understand God's message. Claiming that you understand God's message is ego in itself and ego in itself is a sin. Then how come such a sinful person understand and implement God's law?
 
cali dude said:
That would apply that even those religionists are not free of sins. You have to be sin free even to understand God's message. Claiming that you understand God's message is ego in itself and ego in itself is a sin. Then how come such a sinful person understand and implement God's law?
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That's only according to your opinion. We know that the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) was sinless, and he applied the law of Allaah. The Messenger simply conveys the message so he doesn't say anything of his desire when conveying the message.


Anyway, all the statements you say are simply your own opinions, so by stating that ego is a sin, you're claiming that you understand God's message hence you have an ego, which means your sinful for that. So in reality, you don't have a right to create a thread like this to discuss these issues because you don't have a 'right' to explain what spirituality is.


(Just something to think about. :) )


Regards.
 

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