strange/troubling hadith are shaking my faith...

  • Thread starter Thread starter anonymous
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 67
  • Views Views 25K
Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм;1454153 said:
You dont know, but what about those who have studied it?

thats exactly the point i was making.. those who have studied it seem to reject that idea... i've been googling around for a few days now trying to figure this out, and thats what it seems like with the majority anyway... i'm no expert though, so please, look into it yourself...
 
can someone at least let me know if the alternate interpretation i mentioned earlier is valid? i saw that it was being used on some other islamic forums, so i'm curious... if that interpretation can be valid, then there is no issue.
 
As'Salaamu Alaaykum

thats exactly the point i was making.. those who have studied it seem to reject that idea... i've been googling around for a few days now trying to figure this out, and thats what it seems like with the majority anyway... i'm no expert though, so please, look into it yourself...

Those who studied it, from my knowledge havent rejected that the earth has expanded. I suggest you go study it yourself.. And the Qur'aan mentions the expansion. If there are those who rejected it, then know that the Qur'aan does not.


If I misunderstood what you said, please dont hesitate to explain/correct me.

can someone at least let me know if the alternate interpretation i mentioned earlier is valid? i saw that it was being used on some other islamic forums, so i'm curious... if that interpretation can be valid, then there is no issue.

If the Hadeeth was invalid it wouldnt have been in the book that is classified as authentic i.e. Saheeh al Bukhaari and Muslim..

Whether alternate interpratation you used was valid or not, but Allaah knows best.

It makes sense according to the study I posted from the site and in Jannah Allaah knows best.

I agree that one must not believe blindly but study there is no doubt in that, studying the source.

Study the authenticity of hadeeth insha'Allaah as adviced, the chains of narration etc, and yes it will be time consuming but good time consuming.

I apologise if I have sounded harsh and correct me if I am incorrect.

@Brother Kabeer: I do not think that brother Alpha Dude and sister Asiyah said anything about believing something without source, or just to believe something we are told and then it is truth.And is not faith to believe with full conviction it is the truth? even where there is no evidence? I mean there are events we have recently discovered, which people back then didnt know about but they still believed. For example: The hadeeth about sleeping on stomach is hated by Allaah, the people didnt know the reasons to why Allaah hated it but they accepted it. The reasons were discovered a few years back. I have to say they did have a point to what they said. They explained in regards to what they knew. but maybe there is more to it...
 
Last edited:
As'Salaamu Alaaykum

The reason this is hard to swallow is because (like i said) a 90 foot tall man would be (from what i understand) physically impossible... not to mention nonsensical if we assume the earths vegetation/creatures were still normal sized..

I agree though, how can you say it is Physically impossible? Did you live back then? What if we assume that due to the study i posted, the vegatation and creatures were also big?


Allaah does clearly mention that he is knower of things we know not. Really we cant assume anything if we know that Allaah knows everything, has power to do anything that fits his majesty , especially when a hadeeth is quoted by a companion of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW).. too much assuming can also lead to doubt, especially when there is a reference speaking about an issue.
 
Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм;1454157 said:


@Brother Kabeer: I do not think that brother Alpha Dude and sister Asiyah said anything about believing something without source, or just to believe something we are told and then it is truth.And is not faith to believe with full conviction it is the truth? even where there is no evidence? I mean there are events we have recently discovered, which people back then didnt know about but they still believed. For example: The hadeeth about sleeping on stomach is hated by Allaah, the people didnt know the reasons to why Allaah hated it but they accepted it. The reasons were discovered a few years back. I have to say they did have a point to what they said. They explained in regards to what they knew. but maybe there is more to it...
Wasalaam,
Well I didnt say they had no source. They had a source. My point was that one must be careful of a non perfect source. Even being in Bukhari or Muslim doesnt mean a hadith is meant for us to take at face value.

Out of interest, have any of you seen what is claimed to be Adam's footprint in Sri Lanka? It is claimed by some (im not sure of the origins) that this is adams footprint. Other's claim it is the Buddaa's.
Adam2527sPeakFootprint-1.jpg

Peace.
 
Wasalaam,
Well I didnt say they had no source. They had a source. My point was that one must be careful of a non perfect source. Even being in Bukhari or Muslim doesnt mean a hadith is meant for us to take at face value.

Out of interest, have any of you seen what is claimed to be Adam's footprint in Sri Lanka? It is claimed by some (im not sure of the origins) that this is adams footprint. Other's claim it is the Buddaa's.
Adam2527sPeakFootprint-1.jpg

Peace.


My apologies i meant to say to believe something one is told, blindly is wrong, which wasnt mentioned by the bro and sis in any way..

I have not seen, so Allaah knows best, it seems that is located in Thailand..maybe i am wrong.
 
Pєαяℓ σf Wιѕ∂σм;1454169 said:

I have not seen, so Allaah knows best, it seems that is located in Thailand..maybe i am wrong.
It is in Sri Lanka, I wrote so in my post :)
that is the actual photo of it too.

Peace
 
:sl:

3_7-1.png

Sahih International
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.


:wa:
 
:sl:
Sahih International
It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.


:wa:
Salaam,
What is the exact reason/point you are making with the emboldened text?
That verse is referring to the Quran, Holy divine words sent from Allah.

Peace
 
http://www.squidoo.com/the-largest-animals-that-ever-lived-on-earth

miniaturization is a well accepted fact (see above link). Be that as it may, we don't know if Adam was said size in heaven or on Earth, certainly his creation in heaven as will our creation in heaven is different than what it is today (as also stated in the ahadith that have cast doubt in your heart). God creates what he wills!
There were already in existence > 90 ft. bipedal creatures .. must everything be fossilized for your examining eyes for you to believe? and the belief here isn't of a basic tenet of religion but some ancillary detail? I am trying not to belittle your concerns here but you make it so easy!
Do you have a point with all of this? Do you desire not to become Muslim because of the size of Adam? then so be it apostate because the size of Adam wasn't to your liking!

best,
 
I mean this doesn't need to be discussed. On the day of resurrection, Allah will not question that "how tall was Adam" or "is it possible for a man to be 60 cubits tall" or such. There is no point in discussing such matters. Allah knows best. Does is matter today that you know whether Adam (A.S) was 60 cubits tall or not? why take this matter and weaken your faith?
 
:sl:
But one should be clear to differentiate between what is a primary and secondary source of Islam, the ahadith are secondary.
They are secondary to the Quran but also considered compulsory to follow and act upon. Our deen is based on the Quran and the Sunnah (as we are told to do so in the Quran itself).

So if this truly was told by Allah & His prophet, then that is fair enough. But has anyone here actually gone to the effort of properly studying the hadith in question?
Maybe its true, or maybe there are faults there.
Why is nobody questioning the literal word in these Ahadith?
These ahadith are reported in reliable collections hence people are less inclined to question their veracity. However, your mode of reasoning implies we must question any and every ahadith, even those which we don't have a problem believing. How else would one be consistent?

Furthermore, what if the OP were to sit with many scholars and they were able to prove without doubt that the hadith are true (like most here are already under the assumption due to the source), then what do you suggest the OP to do?

What if somebody went and killed every gekko and made them extinct. Then when you face Allah on Judgement Day, He asks you why did you murder his creatures? (if the hadith was faulty). And your only excuse was you blindly followed a tertiary source of Islam. Ofc if its true then youll be fine.
'Blindly following' is misleading choice of words as it implies we shut off all faculties of thought and accept all that is told, regardless of who is telling us.

This is wrong because the ahadith collections where the above mentioned have been held as a source for matters of deen for over a thousand years by scholars who have spent years of their life studying enough to know what is and isn't reliable.

Accepting the authority of those who know when we know not is not equal to blind following. Rather, that's intelligently defaulting to the knowledge and understanding of those who have taken the time to learn. Even in the Quran we are told to ask those who know.

Nay. Blind following would be if someone were to take the word of any tom, dick and harry ignoramus off the street on a matter of deen without knowing who that person is and whether or not he knows enough to be worthy of accepted. That's clearly not what we're doing.

On the other hand, I can see how people like Asiyah3 and Alpha Dude take the stance of just accept it all and agree with it even if its seemingly illogical.
Like I said, your approach opens the door to inconsistency. Don't accept this issue, fine, but then be consistent and completely scrutinise every single hadith, personally.

Why should we wash arms hands thrice in wudhu and not 4 times? Maybe the hadith was wrong? What if Allah questions us on the day of judgement for 'blindly following' on this matter? See what I mean, you have to put everything under the microscope if you wish to cast doubt on the validity of the above mentioned ones simply cos you don't like the sound of them.

Such a mindset would open the door to rejecting ahadith altogether as 'you can't be sure which is true and which isn't'.
 
Last edited:
Salaam

i think it would be physically impossible on our planet for a 90 foot tall man to exist... its true that giant animals were around

hmm so u think it's ture that giant animals were around ? Then why it's so impossible for Adam pbuh to be 90 foot tall ? Also , why it's so important to know about his height ? It's has nothing to do with our hereafter . On the final day , we won't be asked how tall were the Prophets pbut but instead if we followed the way they showed.

So , pl. don't let Shaytan to trick u with unnecessary questions.
 
Last edited:
Gosh there are some heated stuff going on in this thread, c'mon everyone, no one means ill here :).

Salaam Alpha Dude,
:sl:
They are secondary to the Quran but also considered compulsory to follow and act upon. Our deen is based on the Quran and the Sunnah (as we are told to do so in the Quran itself).
This issue is not really about anything to follow or act on. This hadith in question is not really imparting anything to do with the Sunnah. Like some others said here, how tall Adam was is possibly irrelevant. What matters more is if something is correct or not.
And yes, Quran and Sunnah are our religion. The main point is the blurring of the lines between hadith and Sunnah. Even here you just did it. We are talking about a hadith that has nothing to do with religious practice or core belief yet you are reffering to the Sunnah.

And yes it is compulsory for us to listen to the Prophet if he tells us we must do something. But again, in hadith, there are many things to be considered, for example there may have been something the Prophet did for a very specific situation, and we are related it without very much context. etc and so forth.


These ahadith are reported in reliable collections hence people are less inclined to question their veracity. However, your mode of reasoning implies we must question any and every ahadith, even those which we don't have a problem believing. How else would one be consistent?

Furthermore, what if the OP were to sit with many scholars and they were able to prove without doubt that the hadith are true (like most here are already under the assumption due to the source), then what do you suggest the OP to do?

'Blindly following' is misleading choice of words as it implies we shut off all faculties of thought and accept all that is told, regardless of who is telling us.

This is wrong because the ahadith collections where the above mentioned have been held as a source for matters of deen for over a thousand years by scholars who have spent years of their life studying enough to know what is and isn't reliable.

Accepting the authority of those who know when we know not is not equal to blind following. Rather, that's intelligently defaulting to the knowledge and understanding of those who have taken the time to learn. Even in the Quran we are told to ask those who know.

Nay. Blind following would be if someone were to take the word of any tom, dick and harry ignoramus off the street on a matter of deen without knowing who that person is and whether or not he knows enough to be worthy of accepted. That's clearly not what we're doing.

Like I said, your approach opens the door to inconsistency. Don't accept this issue, fine, but then be consistent and completely scrutinise every single hadith, personally.

Why should we wash arms hands thrice in wudhu and not 4 times? Maybe the hadith was wrong? What if Allah questions us on the day of judgement for 'blindly following' on this matter? See what I mean, you have to put everything under the microscope if you wish to cast doubt on the validity of the above mentioned ones simply cos you don't like the sound of them.

Such a mindset would open the door to rejecting ahadith altogether as 'you can't be sure which is true and which isn't'.
What should the OP do? As I already wrote in my post, then he should make a more informed decision based upon this.

Yes I agree maybe blindly following is not the ideal words for me to have used. And yes the collections by Bukhari et are v.useful to us, and highly regarded. But it doesnt change facts.
As for the consistency point. If you want to take it in such a black and white way (accept them all as 100% true, or reject them all completely) then both attitudes are extreme.
The undeniable fact is that there are examples of sahih hadith with (at least on the face) questionable matn content, or sometimes other issues. In these cases, taking them at literal face value can be a dangerous thing. I dont know about this particular hadith of Adam in question, but this is why only a hadith scholar or someone who has studied it in depth is qualified to answer.
Hadith is NOT Sunnah, and we should be careful not to assume the Sahih collections are there for us laypeople to read ourselves without knowing much more just like that.
But of course we are lucky to have the sahih texts.

Usually the issues in question are supererogatory, rather its just the principle behind it that Islam stay pure.

Peace
 
I believe my questions are legitimate. so far people have basically just told me to "believe". That doesn't help anything. Please refrain from posting here again if you're just going to say things like this, and not actually address my concerns about the hadith..
:sl:

Look at the whole post in context. I didn't say there may be a problem with you, because you ask questions. I meant, if you look at the sentence following it, there may be a problem if you let that question shake your faith.

Nobody's here said you shouldn't ask questions. But you should not let those questions shake your faith.

:w:
 
a new anonymous here lol

sis id just like to say, it does kind of sound like some people are on the attack here, but dont pay any attention to it inshAllah, Allah ta'ala knows your intentions.

um i want to try and phase what others have said in a new wording, looking at any other religion/way of life you will find that they are simply a set of man made dogmas and rituals. nobody even claims to have proof for their religion. yet we all have our own solid foundations for belief in Islam, these tests you are going through will only strengthen your faith to the point where you have no more room for doubt.

sorry i have not mentioned anything about the hadith specifically.
perhaps this link will be useful to you.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/adam_90_feet_tall.htm

as for being 'physically impossible' to reach that size. if you have some source stating this i would like to see it. but more than likely it will argue that based on human bone compressive strength, biological makeup etc it will be impossible, which is true. but remember that Allah's design is perfect, Allah swt could easily alter the entire genetic makeup of Adam AS to accomodate his height and he would know how this works better than anyone.

dont start rejecting hadith, take some time, and strengthen your basis of faith. The sahaba use to accept anything the prophet told them because they were convinced of islam and look where the ummah rose to. It was only Allah that granted it to us and he took it away when we messed with the religion.
 
1) I don't see why it would be impossible to be that big. As has been mentioned before; there are creatures from the not so distant past who were almost that size.
2) There are at least 3 different anons on this thread... isn't that abusing the anon account a bit?
3) Whether you take it to mean Adam (pbuh) was that size in heaven, or on earth; it shouldn't really affect your faith because it can't be proven either way and has no bearing on your life as a Muslim.

If someone tells you 100 things and it turns out you can prove 99 of them but 1 cannot be proved or disproved; wouldn't you give them the benefit of the doubt? Especially if that thing was of no consequence?
 
If someone tells you 100 things and it turns out you can prove 99 of them but 1 cannot be proved or disproved; wouldn't you give them the benefit of the doubt? Especially if that thing was of no consequence?
This............
 
It seems like there may be a problem within you, not with the Hadith at all.

Salaam,

I read some of your posts and their appear to be confrontational. Someone is asking for some clarification. Instead of attacking them personally, you need to address the particular question that they are asking.

Anyway, some Muslims have doubts and these need to be resolved in a calm atmosphere. At the moment, the current discussion may ignite WW3....lol.
 
Last edited:
Assalaamu Alaykum,

For people other than the OP, please avoid using the anonymous account as it leads to confusion. Jazakallaahu khayran.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top