Sunni - Shi'a unity

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I think what the OP was getting at is that it's time we stop hating each other based on a few differing beliefs. Bottom line is that Shias are still Muslim. (albeit very misguided Muslims.)

This.

Accusing someone of kufr is a very serious matter. Thinking well of the sahaba is not a defining requirement of Islam. We are commanded to be one ummah. There is no practical reason why we can't leave judgement over our theological differences to the best of judges.
 
look at it like this - and you'll see what i'm saying:

In April 2004 the resistance went through a qualitative change, becoming for the first time a national popular uprising. The countdown started with the closing of a newspaper close to Muqtada al-Sadr and the arrest of a senior aide for the murder of a rival cleric. Sadr’s supporters mobilised across Iraq, and members of his Mahdi Army seized government buildings in several southern governorates. US officials’ timing of their move against Sadr was disastrous. On 31 March four American mercenaries were killed by a crowd in Fallujah. The US army demanded the city hand over those responsible. The local council refused. The next day troops stormed into the town, but the resistance held its ground. The siege of Fallujah had begun.
The political impact of US forces fighting a combined Shia and Sunni insurgency was immense.

Solidarity demonstrations across Iraq clashed repeatedly with troops and local police.

In Baghdad tens of thousands of Sunnis and Shias filled the Sunni Umm al-Qura’ mosque for joint prayers

and on 9 April 2004 over 200,000 demonstrated in Baghdad in the biggest protest for a generation.

Iraqis responded to Fallujah’s appeals for medical supplies, blood and money. Across the country armed men, most of whom were local lads, attacked coalition troops with stones and guns.

The Washington Post concluded that the occupation had spent all moral and political credit with ordinary Iraqis:
The Sunni-Shia divide, already narrower in Iraq that in some parts of the Arab world,
is by all accounts shrinking each day that Iraqis agree their most immediate problem is the occupation.
Many here say that, whatever the value there was in deposing Saddam Hussein, Americans have exhausted their goodwill.

The final blow to the American onslaught on Fallujah came when crowds confronted the 650-man 2nd battalion of the Iraqi Army heading towards Fallujah from their base north of Baghdad. Iraqis begged the troops not to join the attack. The soldiers, many of whom were Shias, were stunned. At a decisive moment shots were fired, wounding several soldiers. The battalion turned back to its base while preparations were made to airlift the troops into battle, but it was too late, the popular feeling had penetrated the ranks of the troops and they refused orders-the encounter with the crowds had stiffened their opposition to the mission.

here's some links:

http://www.maskofzion.com/2010/11/baghdad-cathedral-massacre-zionist.html

http://warisacrime.org/content/iraqi-christians


True, the situation in Iraq was difficult prior to the war. Having visited the country in 1999, I can testify to this. But the hardship suffered by many Iraqis, especially political dissidents, was in some way typically characteristic of authoritarian and dictatorial regimes.
Iraq could, at that time, be easily contrasted with other countries living under similar hardships. But what has happened since the war can barely be compared to any other country or any other wars since World War II. Even putting aside the devastating death toll, the sheer scale of internal displacement and forced emigration is terrifying. This is a nation that had more or less maintained a consistent level of demographic cohesion for many generations. It was this cohesion that made Iraq what it was.
Iraqi Christian communities had coexisted alongside their Muslim neighbors for hundreds of years. The churches of the two main Christian groups, the Assyrians and Chaldeans, date back to A.D. 33 and 34 respectively. A recent editorial in an Arab newspaper was titled "Arab Christians should feel at home."
As moving as the article was, the fact is, the fact remains that Arab Christians should not have to feel at home — they already are at home. Their roots dates back to the days of Jesus Christ, and since then they have maintained a unique identity and proud history under the most difficult of circumstances.
The plight of Iraqi Christians seems very similar to that of Palestinian Christians, whose numbers have plummeted and continue to fall following the Israeli occupation of Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza in 1967. The Palestinian Christian diaspora was a direct outcome of the Israeli occupation and the original takeover of historic Palestine in 1948. The Israeli government sees no difference between a Palestinian Christian and a Muslim.


But none of this was deemed worthy of discussion in much of the Western media, perhaps because it risked hurting the sensibility of the Israeli occupier. The troubling news coming from Iraq can now be manipulated by presenting the suffering of Christians as an offshoot of a larger conflict between Islamic militants and Christians communities in Iraq.


The fact is that Iraqi society has long been known for its tolerance and acceptance of minorities. There were days when no one used such references as Shiite, Sunni and Christians; there one Iraq and one Iraqi people. This has completely changed, for part of the strategy following the invasion of Iraq was to emphasize and manipulate the ethnic and religious demarcation of the country, creating insurmountable divides. Without a centralized power to guide and channel the collective responses of the Iraqi people, all hell broke loose. Masked men with convenient militant names but no identities disappeared as quickly as they popped up to wreak havoc in the country. The communal trust that held together the fabric of the Iraqi society during the hardest of times dissolved. Utter chaos and mistrust took over, and the rest is history.

read more here:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20101111rb.html
 
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This.

Accusing someone of kufr is a very serious matter. Thinking well of the sahaba is not a defining requirement of Islam. We are commanded to be one ummah. There is no practical reason why we can't leave judgement over our theological differences to the best of judges.
When the hypocrites of Madinah were spreading lies about Aisha Allah absolved her in the Quran ( "Allah wishes that you should never repeat the like of it again if you are believers." (24:18))and the Prophet pbuh ordered the people who were doing so to be punished. Asking for the curse of Allah to be upon her is not Islamic in any way shape or form and is unacceptable. I personally cannot look past it.
the people of Oman who follow the ibadi school of thought have an unfavourable opinion of the Sahaba Uthman's time of rule, they do not curse him. There's a difference.

It was narrated on the authority of Ibn Abbas, that the Prophet (pbuh) said: "May Allah (swt)'s curse be on those who insult my companions, and may the curses of all mankind and the angels be on them too."
Like others have mentioned we can get along as people or unite against a common enemy but unite as Muslims? I don't think so. Particularly when they slander the best of Muslims. Like any of us can compare to the sahaba and all they've done.
Prophet (s.a.w)said, "Do not abuse my Companions, for if any of you were to spend gold equal to (mountain of) Uhud in charity, it would not equal a handful of one of them or even half of that" [al-Bukharee, Muslim]."
I will not accuse them of kufr but those who insult and curse the sahaba are severely misguided.
Salam
 
This.

Accusing someone of kufr is a very serious matter. Thinking well of the sahaba is not a defining requirement of Islam. We are commanded to be one ummah. There is no practical reason why we can't leave judgement over our theological differences to the best of judges.

Salaam,

The main problem is that some Shia's insult the Sahaba.
 
:sl:

Visit Indonesia and ask lay Muslims who you meet "are you sunni or shia ?". Don't be surprised if almost all of them ask instead "what it sunni ? what is shia ?".

Indonesia is the country that has the biggest number of sunni Muslims, but ulama do not feel they need to inform the Muslim people that they are sunni. As long as Indonesian Muslim people realize they are Muslim who obligate to follow sunnah, it's enough.

But although Muslims in Indonesia are sunni, it doesn't means shia people are not exist here. They are exist in many places as minority although they do not call themselves shia. Some of public figures in Indonesia are shia. Even one of my uncle is shia. Me and my family did not know about it until a face veiled salafi sister rejected his marriage proposal. But never mind, we still regard him as a Muslim.

Shia in Indonesia can do their activities freely. I can monitor their events in Islamic event column in my newspaper. Same column which events from sunni organizations are informed.

Unity ?. We are in Indonesia have done this since long time ago.
 
Leave this to Allah insha'Allah, they still are Muslim according to both Qur'an and Sunnah

:sl:

Some scholars disagree and claim Shia's are kaffirs, though I personally will not pass such judgement.
 
:sl:

Some scholars disagree and claim Shia's are kaffirs, though I personally will not pass such judgement.

Unfortunately they have no proof from Qur'an or Hadith, or else the matter would have been settled 1300 years ago.
 
that's where i'll say you haven't read my posts properly,
when you say "we can agree to disagree", "and each other"
you are imagining there are two groups - two sects,
You are giving lengthy articles but fail to explain what you want exactly? You want unity then what kind of unity? Agreeing to disagree is forming of unity where there are disagreements of beliefs or politics and living peacefully. If that's not what you want then what you want exactly? Giving lengthy videos and long text that doesn't explain your point is not helping.
 
This.

Accusing someone of kufr is a very serious matter. Thinking well of the sahaba is not a defining requirement of Islam. We are commanded to be one ummah. There is no practical reason why we can't leave judgement over our theological differences to the best of judges.
Yea there are minority of sunni that call them kafr, so there are minority of shia that call sunni kafr. They can insult the sahaba all the want, we can't restrict their requirement of belief. That is not the issue here, but their beliefs have lot of politics which causes the hatred of sunni. You won't understand it until you go among them and you see a lot of hatred of sunnis in general, which I did when I was trying to learn about different sects. On the sunni side i didn't see that much hatred, most sunni didn't even know much about the shia.

Read the last part of my post: http://www.islamicboard.com/importa...134308558-sunni-shia-unity-2.html#post1461806
 
what i'm saying is that we are magnifying these differences when much bigger issues face us, they are among the closest to us in comparison to the foreign invaders - yet the invaders laugh while they have us seeking their help to fight each other - as could be seen with saddam and the iraninans and the muqtadar lot.
the iranian government has not invited them to build military bases all over their land despite the majority of those who claim to be on the sunnah doing so, do you believe they are on the sunnah? nah - it's just a label - sort of like a brand name which allows us to ignore the facts on the ground and what major issues face us.

aren't we straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel?
 
It is not only the insulting of the companions, it's also the doctrine of the 11 or 12 imams can't remember the number, but as I remember they give these imams attributes of Allah which is what??
 
I understand what some are saying, that the west are utilizing the divide and conquer tactic, but at the same time they do have devient believes, and when attempting to unite with such people there all ways exists the danger that they will infect us with those deviant beliefs that they possess and be a fitna for us. For example in college I had a shia friend and he was all ways trying to convert me to shia'ism, he was all ways going on about the imams and how there was a big cover up after the prophet (saw) died and I'm not going to lie, he did sow the seed of doubt within my heart, and I was left thinking why did I take this shia as a companion of mine.

He did it sneakly, first we never talked about religion, I had the whole lets unite attitude, and we never discussed matters of deen, then one day I mentioned Umar RA and how I'd love to be like him, and he replied with "why the hell would you wanna be like that munafiq" and we got into an argument, and after that day he was all ways trying to convert me to shia'ism and infect me with his beliefs. So how do we achieve this unity when they possess a hatred in their heart for people that we love greatly, I don't understand how such a thing can be achieved.

Understandably not all shia hate the companions but shouldn't the one's who don't curse the companions disassociate themselves from the term shia, when it's known that some amongst the shia curse the companions why would anyone want to label/associate themselves with that.
 
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Understandably not all shia hate the companions but shouldn't the one's who don't curse the companions disassociate themselves from the term shia, when it's known that some amongst the shia curse the companions why would anyone want to label/associate themselves with that.
There are, but are a minority among shia. I heard zayedis don't do this and they respect all the rightly guided caliphs because Ali (ra) respected them too.
 
Perhaps a more appropriate thread title would have been, "How do we achieve unity in spite of the major differences in creed" and people could post ideas as to how we resolve our differences.
 
what i'm saying is that we are magnifying these differences when much bigger issues face us, they are among the closest to us in comparison to the foreign invaders - yet the invaders laugh while they have us seeking their help to fight each other - as could be seen with saddam and the iraninans and the muqtadar lot.
the iranian government has not invited them to build military bases all over their land despite the majority of those who claim to be on the sunnah doing so, do you believe they are on the sunnah? nah - it's just a label - sort of like a brand name which allows us to ignore the facts on the ground and what major issues face us.

aren't we straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel?
Where did I say we can't make treaty or peace with them? I'm talking about trusting them. And what if shia shoot us first, in between, or right after? They are already doing in Syria and Iran. If they had more power wouldn't do any less than the foreign invaders you are talking about. But we should make peace with them because that is the model of the prophet (pbuh) and Allah likes those who strive for peace, that is my only reason, nothing more and nothing less.

Second, and most important, victory is in the hands of Allah and if you read the Quran there are so many examples where Allah supported the righteous small group who had no chance of winning against the large number of opposition they were facing. So the most important thing is righteousness.
 
Perhaps a more appropriate thread title would have been, "How do we achieve unity in spite of the major differences in creed" and people could post ideas as to how we resolve our differences.
First you have to define what unity means. If it means trusting them, then not a good idea. Trust somebody and then they shoot you in the back. If it is making peace, then there are Prophetic (pbuh) models to with mutual understanding and treaties. We are already trying to achieve peace in so many place. Malaysia, there are peaceful relationships not just with shia or other sects but also other religions. UAE is similar, but with the threat from Iran, dissent is growing.
 
This.

Accusing someone of kufr is a very serious matter. Thinking well of the sahaba is not a defining requirement of Islam. We are commanded to be one ummah. There is no practical reason why we can't leave judgement over our theological differences to the best of judges.
well anybody who declares Sahaba Karam RA and Umhat Al Momineen (Mothers of Believers) kafir is not a muslim and anybody who says that Quran has been changed and this is not the real Quran is not a muslim , and there are many other extreme beliefs of shias which make them kafir ok , we dont accuse anyone of being kafir unless there is a sound proof and in shias case there are many proofs ok so open your eyes
001. Neither we accept such Lord nor do we accept the Prophet of such Lord whose Caliph is Abu-Bakr (r.a) (Na'uzubillah). [Anwaar-ul-Na'umania, Vol#2, Pg#278 - Published Iran]




002. None of the Prophets (a.s) had been bestowed with the Prophet Hood until He declared His belief in the fallacy character of ALLAH (Na'uzubillah). [Usool-ul-Kaafi, Vol#1, Pg#265 - Published Iran]
 
The UAE government worrying about Shia is laughable, the prophet pbuh would have slaughtered Erik prince if he stepped foot in madina, the only thing that could have saved him is Shahadah,
The UAE government give him a multi-billion dollar contract to train mercenaries, I'm looking at his situation From a strategic sense, and ignoring the doctrinal disputes ( which is a lot better than the UAE ignoring those who killed millions of Muslims, abused the prophet pbuh and consider him an impostor, used he Quran as toilet paper, and much more), rather the UAE government is seeking the help of those people against iran.
That is true diseased hearts.
 
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