Sura 2:29-31 - the viceroy on earth.

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theplains

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Hello,


I started reading the English version of the Quran (mostly two editions, one by Amded Ali and the
other by Abdullah Yusif Ali). But I'll quote from
the online version at quranexplorer com.

I am unclear on some things in sura 2:29-31 so I have some questions.

"And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said:
Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy
praise and sanctify Thee? He said:
Surely I know that which ye know not. And He taught Adam all
the
names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are
truthful. They said: Be glorified! We have no
knowledge saving that which Thou hast taught us. Lo!
Thou, only Thou,
art the Knower, the Wise".

Did God teach Adam in private so the angels could not know what the animal names would be?
Did Adam name Eve or did God tell Adam that she was
called Eve?

What viceroy on earth did the angels believe would cause harm and shed blood? And how did they
know? Did God teach this to them?


Thanks,
Jim
 
From my limited understanding "Viceroy" or "Khalifah" refers to man in general. And from the verse we understand that Man was created with the ability to learn. The angels are intellectual creatures but their knowledge is limited(us too).

The special thing about the human beings is that we have "free choice". We can either choose to do good or bad, whereas angels will never do bad.

The lesson to be learnt is also humility, that we don't know everything. And that what we do know is what Allah lets us know.

So don't be arrogant in knowledge that you possess.

I hope my response helps in some understanding.
 
How I understand this is that Allah swt gave mankind reason, which actually contradicts the Christian concept or as one guy brought before that they were ignorant and childlike. That Allah swt equipped us with all the knowledge of the world that we need and if you think about it, all subjects even the 'logical' ones are really borne of our imagination from the knowledge that is already innate in us, we're but to reach in and find it.. and I find that folks can bring about this creativity and fitrah that Allah swt gifted us when we use our right brains more than the left.. it is the gift..
but the new world order isn't set to govern individual units is it? it is all about running like a machine and shutting off your mind to be fed what they desire us to be fed!
Also I believe the bloodshed is meant as a comment on the dinosaurs or whatever creatures that were on earth preparing it for mankind.. that they were mindless and causing carnage and damage but Allah swt knows best that one is my understanding!
 
Look in Ibn Kathir(رحيم الله)'s tafsir;

Allah reiterated His favor on the Children of Adam when He stated that He mentioned them in the highest of heights before He created them. Allah said,

﴿وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَـئِكَةِ﴾

(And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels.)

This Ayah means, "O Muhammad ! Mention to your people what Allah said to the angels,

﴿إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِى الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً﴾

(Verily, I am going to place a Khalifah on earth).

Meaning people reproducing generation after generation, century after century, just as Allah said,

﴿وَهُوَ الَّذِى جَعَلَكُمْ خَلَـئِفَ الاٌّرْضِ﴾

(And it is He Who has made you (Khala'if) generations coming after generations, replacing each other on the earth) (6:165),

﴿وَيَجْعَلُكُمْ حُلَفَآءَ الاٌّرْضِ﴾

(And makes you (Khulafa') inheritors of the earth) (27:62),

﴿وَلَوْ نَشَآءُ لَجَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ مَّلَـئِكَةً فِى الاٌّرْضِ يَخْلُفُونَ ﴾

(And if it were Our will, We would have (destroyed you (mankind all, and) made angels to replace you (Yakhlufun) on the earth.) (43: 60) and,

﴿فَخَلَفَ مِن بَعْدِهِمْ خَلْفٌ﴾

(Then after them succeeded an (evil) generation (Khalf)) (7:169). It appears that Allah was not refering to Adam specifically as Khalifah, otherwise he would not have allowed the angels' statement,

﴿أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَآءَ﴾

(Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood).

The angels meant that this type of creature usually commits the atrocities they mentioned. The angels knew of this fact, according to their understanding of human nature, for Allah stated that He would create man from clay. Or, the angels understood this fact from the word Khalifah, which also means the person who judges disputes that occur between people, forbidding them from injustice and sin, as Al-Qurtubi said.

The statement the angels uttered was not a form of disputing with Allah's, nor out of envy for the Children of Adam, as some mistakenly thought. Allah has described them as those who do not precede Him in speaking, meaning that they do not ask Allah anything without His permission. When Allah informed them that He was going to create a creation on the earth, and they had knowledge that this creation would commit mischief on it, as Qatadah mentioned, they said,

﴿أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَآءَ﴾

(Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood)

This is only a question for the sake of learning about the wisdom of that, as if they said, Our Lord! What is the wisdom of creating such creatures since they will cause trouble in the earth and spill blood "If the wisdom behind this action is that You be worshipped, we praise and glorify You (meaning we pray to You) we never indulge in mischief, so why create other creatures''

Allah said to the angels in answer to their inquiry,

﴿إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ﴾

(I know that which you do not know.) meaning, "I know that the benefit of creating this type of creature outweighs the harm that you mentioned, that which you have no knowledge of. I will create among them Prophets and send Messengers. I will also create among them truthful, martyrs, righteous believers, worshippers, the modest, the pious, the scholars who implement their knowledge, humble people and those who love Allah and follow His Messengers.''

The Sahih recorded that when the angels ascend to Allah with the records of the servant's deeds, Allah asks them, while having better knowledge, "How did you leave My servants'' They will say, "We came to them while they were praying and left them while they were praying.'' This is because the angels work in shifts with mankind, and they change shifts during the Fajr and `Asr prayers. The angels who descended will remain with us, while the angels who have remained with us ascend with our deeds. The Messenger of Allah said,

«يُرْفَعُ إِلَيْهِ عَمَلُ اللَّيْلِ قَبْلَ النَّهَارِ وَعَمَلُ النَّهَارِ قَبْلَ اللَّيْل»

(The deeds of the night are elevated to Allah before the morning, and the deeds of the morning before the night falls. )

Hence, the angels' statement, "We came to them while they were praying and left them while they were praying,'' explains Allah's statement,

﴿إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ﴾

(I know that which you do not know.)

It was said that the meaning of Allah's statement,

﴿إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ﴾

(I know that which you do not know.) is, "I have a specific wisdom in creating them, which you do not have knowledge of.'' It was also said that it is in answer to,

﴿وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ﴾

(While we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You) after which Allah said,

﴿إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ﴾

(I know that which you do not know). Meaning, "I know that Iblis is not as you are, although he is among you.'' Others said,

﴿أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَآءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ﴾

"(Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, ـ while we glorify you with praises and thanks and sanctify You.) is their request that they should be allowed to inhabit the earth, instead of the Children of Adam. So Allah said to them,

﴿إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ﴾

(I know that which you do not know) if your inhabiting the heavens is better, or worse for you.'' Ar-Razi as well as others said this. Allah knows best.

Allah stated the virtue of Adam above the angels, because He taught Adam, rather than them, the names of everything. This occurred after they prostrated to him. This discussion precedes that event here, only to show the importance of his position, and the absence of the angels' knowledge about creating the Khalifah when they asked about it. So Allah informed the angels that He knows what they do not know, and then He mentioned this to show them Adam's superiority over them in knowledge. Allah said,

﴿وَعَلَّمَ ءَادَمَ الأَسْمَآءَ كُلَّهَا﴾

(And He taught Adam all the names (of everything)).

Ad-Dahhak said that Ibn `Abbas commented on the Ayah;

﴿وَعَلَّمَ ءَادَمَ الأَسْمَآءَ كُلَّهَا﴾

(And He taught Adam all the names (of everything)) "Meaning, the names that people use, such as human, animal, sky, earth, land, sea, horse, donkey, and so forth, including the names of the other species.'' Ibn Abi Hatim and Ibn Jarir reported that `Asim bin Kulayb narrated from Sa`id bin Ma`bad that Ibn `Abbas was questioned,

﴿وَعَلَّمَ ءَادَمَ الأَسْمَآءَ كُلَّهَا﴾

(And He taught Adam all the names (of everything)) "Did Allah teach him the names of the plate and the pot'' He said, "Yes, and even the terms for breaking wind!''

Allah taught Adam the names of everything, their proper names, the names of their characteristics, and what they do, just as Ibn `Abbas stated about the terms for passing gas.

In his Sahih, Al-Bukhari explained this Ayah in the Book of Tafsir with a report from Anas bin Malik who said that the Messenger of Allah said,

«يَجْتَمِعُ الْمُؤمِنُونَ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ فَيَقُولُونَ: لَوِ اسْتَشْفَعْنَا إِلَى رَبِّنَا فَيَأْتُونَ آدَمَ فَيَقُولُونَ: أَنْتَ أَبُو النَّاسِ خَلَقَكَ اللهُ بِيَدِهِ وَأَسْجَدَ لَكَ مَلَائِكَتَهُ وَعَلَّمَكَ أَسْمَاءَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ، فَاشْفَعْ لَنَا عِنْدَ رَبِّكَ حَتَّى يُريحَنَا مِنْ مَكَانِنَا هَذا، فَيَقُولُ: لَسْتُ هُنَاكُمْ وَيَذْكُرُ ذَنْبَهُ فَيَسْتَحْيِي ائْتُوا نُوحًا فإِنَّهُ أَوَّلُ رَسُولٍ بَعَثَهُ اللهُ إِلَى أَهْلِ الْأَرْضِ، فَيَأْتُونَه، فَيَقُولُ: لَسْتُ هُناكُمْ وَيَذْكُر سُؤَالَه رَبَّه مَا لَيْسَ لَهُ بِه عِلْم فَيَسْتَحْيِي فَيَقُولُ: ائْتُوا خَلِيلَ الرَّحْمن فَيَأْتُونَهُ فَيقُولُ: لَسْتُ هُنَاكُمْ فَيَقُولُ: ائْتُوا مُوسَى عَبْدًا كَلَّمَهُ اللهُ وَأعْطَاهُ التَّوْرَاةَ، فَيقُولُ: لَسْتُ هُنَاكُم فَيَذْكُرُ قَتْلَ النَّفْسِ بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ فَيَسْتَحْيِي مِنْ رَبِّهِ فَيَقُولُ: ائْتُوا عِيسى عَبْدَاللهِ وَرَسُولَهُ وَكَلِمَةَ اللهِ ورُوحَهُ، فَيَأْتُونَهُ فَيَقُولُ: لَسْتُ هُنَاكُمْ ائْتُوا مُحَمَّدًا عَبْدًا غُفِرَ لَهُ مَا تَقَدَّم مِنْ ذَنْبِهِ وَمَا تَأَخَّرَ، فَيَأْتُونِّي فأَنْطَلِقُ حَتَّى أَسْتأذِنَ عَلَى رَبِّي فيَأْذَنُ لِي، فإِذَا رأَيْتُ رَبِّي وَقَعْتُ سَاجِدًا فَيَدَعُنِي مَا شَاءَ اللهُ ثُمَّ يُقَالُ: ارْفَعْ رَأْسَكَ وَسَلْ تُعْطَهْ وَقُلْ يُسْمَعْ وَاشْفَعْ تُشَفَّعْ، فأَرْفَعُ رَأْسِي فأَحْمَدُهُ بِتَحْمِيدٍ يُعَلِّمُنِيهِ ثُمَّ أَشْفَعُ فَيُحَدُّ لِي حَدًّا فأُدْخِلُهُمُ الْجَنَّةَ ثُمَّ أَعُودُ إلَيْهِ فَإذَا رَأَيْتُ رَبِّي مِثْلَهُ ثُمَّ أَشْفَعُ فَيُحَدُّ لِي حدًّا فأُدْخِلُهُمُ الْجَنَّةَ ثُمَّ أَعُودُ الثَّالِثَةَ ثُمَّ أعُودُ الرَّابِعَةَ فَأَقُولُ:مَا بَقِيَ فِي النَّار إلَّا مَنْ حَبَسَهُ الْقُرْآنُ وَوَجَبَ عَلَيْهِ الْخُلُود»

(The believers will gather on the Day of Resurrection and will say, `We should seek a means of intercession with our Lord' They will go to Adam and say, `O Adam! You are the father of all mankind, Allah created you with His Own Hand, ordered the angels to prostrate for you and taught you the names of everything. Will you not intercede for us with your Lord, so that he relieve us from this gathering place' On that Adam will reply, `I cannot do what you have asked'. He will have remembered his error and will be embarrassed, saying, `Go to Nuh, for he is the first of Allah's Messengers whom Allah sent to the people of the earth.' They will go to Nuh and ask him. He will say, `I cannot do what you have asked.' He will recall asking Allah what he was not to know, and will also be embarrassed. He will say, `Go to Khalil Ar-Rahman.' They will go to Ibrahim and he will also say, `I cannot do what you have asked.' He will say, `Go to Musa, a servant to whom Allah spoke directly and gave the Tawrah.' Musa will say, `I cannot do what you have asked.' He will remember that he killed a person without justification and will be embarrassed before his Lord. He will say, `Go to `Isa, Allah's servant and Messenger and His Word and a spirit of His.' They will go to `Isa and he will say, `I will not do what you asked. Go to Muhammad, a servant whose previous and latter errors were forgiven.' They will come to me, and I will go to Allah and seek His permission and He will give me His permission. When I gaze at my Lord, I will prostrate myself and Allah will allow me to remain like that as much as He will. Then I will be addressed, `O Muhammad! Raise your head; ask, for you will be given what you ask, and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will raise my head and thank and praise Allah with such praise as He will inspire me. I will intercede and He will grant me a quantity of people that He will admit into Paradise. I will go back to Him, and when I see my Lord, I will intercede and He will allow me a quantity that He will admit into Paradise. I will do that for a third and then a fourth time. I will say, `There are no more people left in Hell except those whom the Qur'an has incarcerated and have thus acquired eternity in Hell.') This Hadith was collected by Muslim, An-Nasa'i and Ibn Majah. fThe reason why we mentioned this Hadith here is the Prophet's statement,

«فَيَأْتُونَ آدَمَ فَيَقُولُون: أنْتَ أَبُو النَّاسِ خَلَقَكَ اللهُ بِيَدِهِ وَأَسْجَدَ لَكَ مَلَائِكَتَهُ وَعَلَّمَكَ أَسْمَاءَ كُلِّ شَيْء»

(They will go to Adam and say, `O Adam! You are the father of all mankind, and Allah created you with His Own Hand, ordered the angels to prostrate for you, and taught you the names of everything). This part of the Hadith testifies to the fact that Allah taught Adam the names of all creatures.

This is why Allah said,

﴿ثُمَّ عَرَضَهُمْ عَلَى الْمَلَـئِكَةِ﴾

(Then He showed them to the angels) meaning, the objects or creations. `Abdur-Razzaq narrated that Ma`mar said that Qatadah said, "Allah paraded the objects before the angels,

﴿فَقَالَ أَنبِئُونِى بِأَسْمَآءِ هَـؤُلاَءِ إِن كُنتُمْ صَـدِقِينَ﴾

(And said, "Tell Me the names of these if you are truthful'').''

Allah's statement means, "Tell Me the names of what I paraded before you, O angels who said,

﴿أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَآءَ﴾

(Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood).

You asked, `Are You appointing a Khalifah from us or from other creations We praise and glorify You.

Therefore, Allah said, "If you say the truth, that if I appoint a non-angel Khalifah on the earth, he and his offspring will disobey Me, commit mischief and shed blood, but if I designate you the Khalifahs you will obey Me, follow My command and honor and glorify Me. However, since you do not know the names of the objects I paraded before you, then you have even less knowledge of what will occur on the earth that does not exist yet.''

﴿قَالُواْ سُبْحَـنَكَ لاَ عِلْمَ لَنَآ إِلاَّ مَا عَلَّمْتَنَآ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ ﴾

(They (angels) said: "Glory is to You, we have no knowledge except what you have taught us. Verily, it is You, the Knower, the Wise.'').

Here the angels are praising Allah's holiness, and perfection above every kind of deficiency, affirming that no creature could ever acquire any part of Allah's knowledge, except by His permission, nor could anyone know anything except what Allah teaches them. This is why they said,

﴿سُبْحَـنَكَ لاَ عِلْمَ لَنَآ إِلاَّ مَا عَلَّمْتَنَآ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْعَلِيمُ الْحَكِيمُ﴾

("Glory is to You, we have no knowledge except what you have taught us. Verily You are the Knower, the Wise) meaning, Allah is knowledgeable of everything, Most Wise about His creation, and He makes the wisest decisions, and He teaches and deprives whom He wills from knowledge. Verily, Allah's wisdom and justice in all matters is perfect.

Allah said,

﴿قَالَ يَـاءَادَمُ أَنبِئْهُم بِأَسْمَآئِهِمْ فَلَمَّآ أَنبَأَهُم بِأَسْمَآئِهِم قَالَ أَلَمْ أَقُل لَّكُمْ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ غَيْبَ السَّمَـوَاتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَأَعْلَمُ مَا تُبْدُونَ وَمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْتُمُونَ ﴾

(He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names,'' and when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know the Ghayb (unseen) in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing'')

Zayd bin Aslam said, "You are Jibril, you are Mika'il, you are Israfil, until he mentioned the name of the crow.'' Mujahid said that Allah's statement,

﴿قَالَ يَـاءَادَمُ أَنبِئْهُم بِأَسْمَآئِهِمْ﴾

(He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names,'') "The name of the pigeon, the crow and everything.'' Statements of a similar meaning were reported from Sa`id bin Jubayr, Al-Hasan, and Qatadah. When Adam's virtue over the angels became apparent, as he mentioned the names that Allah taught him, Allah said to the angels,

﴿أَلَمْ أَقُل لَّكُمْ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ غَيْبَ السَّمَـوَاتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَأَعْلَمُ مَا تُبْدُونَ وَمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْتُمُونَ﴾

(Did I not tell you that I know the Ghayb (unseen) in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing)

This means, "Did I not state that I know the seen and unseen matters. '' Similarly, Allah said,

﴿وَإِن تَجْهَرْ بِالْقَوْلِ فَإِنَّهُ يَعْلَمُ السِّرَّ وَأَخْفَى ﴾

(And if you (O Muhammad ) speak (the invocation) aloud, then verily, He knows the secret and that which is yet more hidden) (20:7).

Also, Allah said about the hoopoe, that it said to Sulayman;

﴿أَلاَّ يَسْجُدُواْ للَّهِ الَّذِى يُخْرِجُ الْخَبْءَ فِى السَّمَـوَتِ وَالاٌّرْضِ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا تُخْفُونَ وَمَا تُعْلِنُونَ - اللَّهُ لاَ إِلَـهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ رَبُّ الْعَرْشِ الْعَظِيمِ ﴾

(﴿As Shaytan (Satan) has barred them from Allah's way﴾ so they do not prostrate before Allah, Who brings to light what is hidden in the heavens and the earth, and knows what you conceal and what you reveal. Allah, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Lord of the Supreme Throne!) (27:25-26).

They also have comments other than what we have said about the meaning of Allah's statement,

﴿وَأَعْلَمُ مَا تُبْدُونَ وَمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْتُمُونَ﴾

(And I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing).

It is reported from Ad-Dahhak that Ibn `Abbas said that,

﴿وَأَعْلَمُ مَا تُبْدُونَ وَمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْتُمُونَ﴾

(And I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing) means, "`I know the secrets, just as I know the apparent things, such as, what Iblis concealed in his heart of arrogance and pride.'' Abu Ja`far Ar-Razi narrated that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that,

﴿وَأَعْلَمُ مَا تُبْدُونَ وَمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْتُمُونَ﴾

(And I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing) means, "The apparent part of what they said was: `Do you create in it that which would commit mischief and shed blood' The hidden meaning was: `We have more knowledge and honor than any creation our Lord would create.' But they came to know that Allah favored Adam above them regarding knowledge and honor.''
 
The special thing about the human beings is that we have "free choice". We can either choose to do good or bad, whereas angels will never do bad.

I am unclear about what you wrote above.

Will angels, like Satan, never do bad? If angels do not have free choice, does this mean that God created
evil angels for the sole purpose to commit evil?

Thanks,
Jim
 
Will angels, like Satan, never do bad?
The problem you have and most pretend Muslims (gives them away in a second) is you seem to be under the impression that Satan is an angel- he never was!

best,
 
Satan is not an angel, he is a jinn, another type of spiritual being which like us has free choice. Among them are good and bad as well. Muslims don't believe in ghosts or anything like that. When "scary supernatural" things happen like "ghost" sightings or anything of that nature happens that can't be explained within the realm of science then we know it's probably the work of jinns. They are creations like us so no need to be afraid of them!
 
interesting question though.

how would something know of the nature of something only just created?


..the names of things has also been likened to the nature of things but it is conjecture.


unfortunately although he was the first man.

he was not the first creation with free will.

maybe he was the first given substance.

but like has been said, there were plenty of things in creation already.


if that was not the confusion of the question then i guess i missed the point again.
 
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Bro MIA every time you post I am reminded of this clip hehe


I know it's not really the same but it's just a little something I find funny.
 
Satan is not an angel, he is a jinn
The concept of demons certainly exists in Judaism (I have delved a little in their religion and it is more occult than Abrahamic) but that is besides the point. Point is, yes the concept of Jinn/Demons exists in Judaism so how did that take a strange turn in christianity whereby a demon becomes an angel..


:w:
 
oh that is so me its uncanny.

i didnt even need to watch the clip, its an awesome film.


everytime i post i think, welp...

tomorrows going to be awkward.

but i guess you can get away with it on the internet.


everybody's so much bigger in real life...its impractical to be a hero.
 
شَادِنُ;1555614 said:

The problem you have and most pretend Muslims (gives them away in a second) is you seem to be under the impression that Satan is an angel- he never was!

best,

I think you have misread some of my earlier posts ... I am from the Christian faith.

Thanks. I found in sura 18:50 that Satan is a jinn. Was he the only jinn commanded to prostrate
with the angels before Adam?

Sura 2:30 says, "And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell
prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever".

He became a disbeliever? Does this mean that he was always in submission to God before this
rebellion in Adam's case?

Thanks,
Jim
 
I think you have misread some of my earlier posts ... I am from the Christian faith.
I know that- we had another member CK who made a similar query except he alleged to be Muslim!


Thanks. I found in sura 18:50 that Satan is a jinn. Was he the only jinn commanded to prostrate
with the angels before Adam?

As far as I know only Iblis was required to prostrate!


Sura 2:30 says, "And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell
prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever".

He became a disbeliever? Does this mean that he was always in submission to God before this
rebellion in Adam's case?

Thanks,
Jim
He was never a disbeliever - how can one who has seen God disbelief in God? There are gradations of kuffr just like there are gradations of shirk. He transgressed a direct command of God and thus he was cast except he asked for a respite, a sort of revenge on mankind. He was granted the respite per suret Al'Araf to the day of judgement but was also told like suret al-hijr and others that he has NO sovereign or power over the righteous servants.

قَالَ رَبِّ بِمَا أَغْوَيْتَنِي لَأُزَيِّنَنَّ لَهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَلَأُغْوِيَنَّهُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{39}

[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 15:39] He said: My Lord! Because Thou hast sent me astray, I verily shall adorn the path of error for them in the earth, and shall mislead them every one,

إِلَّا عِبَادَكَ مِنْهُمُ الْمُخْلَصِينَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{40}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 15:40] Save such of them as are Thy perfectly devoted slaves.[/SIZE]
قَالَ هَٰذَا صِرَاطٌ عَلَيَّ مُسْتَقِيمٌ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{41}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 15:41] He said: This is a right course incumbent upon Me:[/SIZE]
إِنَّ عِبَادِي لَيْسَ لَكَ عَلَيْهِمْ سُلْطَانٌ إِلَّا مَنِ اتَّبَعَكَ مِنَ الْغَاوِينَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{42}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 15:42] Lo! as for My slaves, thou hast no power over any of them save such of the froward as follow thee,


and Allah swt knows best.
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[/FONT]
 
شَادِنُ;1555718 said:
As far as I know only Iblis was required to prostrate![SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

You mean only one jinn (referred to as Iblis) was commanded to prostrate? The Quran says the
angels were commanded to prostrate. How do you know that only one jinn was present?

How did Iblis and the angels know the viceroy would do harm and shed blood on earth as sura 2
says?

Thanks,
Jim
 
You mean only one jinn (referred to as Iblis) was commanded to prostrate? The Quran says the
angels were commanded to prostrate. How do you know that only one jinn was present?
We don't add to the Quran that which wasn't mentioned that's how we know!


How did Iblis and the angels know the viceroy would do harm and shed blood on earth as sura 2
says?
I have already answered this for you- It had nothing to do with man since there were creatures in the world who caused bloodshed. The angels not knowing what this viceroy is like naturally presumed that he'd behave as the creatures already in existence.

best,
 
Angels are incapable of sinning, from that logic, it made sense to them for them to be a vicegerent instead of any other being. However, they were reminded that their knowledge were limited. Another lesson to take home is don't judge something based on your lack of knowledge.

Notice that when Iblis disobeyed, his logic was that it was because he was made from fire whereas Adam(as) was made from clay. He was looking at it from a materialistic view.

Furthermore, take a look at this verse.

[Allah] said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" [Satan] said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay." Al A'raf 7:12

The question iblis was asked was why he did not obey when he was commanded. Think about this and look at his response. Ask yourself, is there any valid reason not to obey God when you are commanded? Iblis wasn't giving a proper answer, because there is no proper reason to disobey God.
 
Did God teach Adam in private

yeah i guess you might want to expand your view/definition of a omnipotent, omniscient god.

i mean its like there are 6/7 billion people and the last view you want to take is that he cant be watching everyone.

if he taught adam AS then he hardly had to do it in person.. i mean he does make everything.

..conjecture on my part but its based on logic that is based in belief.


the rest is something that i can conjecture about but it wont bring you any closer to understanding the beginning of the world.

what you can ascertain from our answers is that none of us were present at the time.



i mean it was probably not like an opening ceremony... with ribbon cuttings and such.

maybe invite only.
 
As a Muslim, I too want to clarify something on this matter.

And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. - The Noble Qur'an (2:34)

If Allah ordered the angels to prostrate, why does it matter if Iblis didn't prostrate..He is not an angel. How did he then disobey the command. Please do clarify this for me.
 
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And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis:
he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith. - The Noble Qur'an (2:34)
He was required to prostrate to show honor, awe and respect to what Allah swt created and because Allah swt so commanded!
Iblis tried to compare himself to Adam. He believed that he was more honorable than Adam. Therefore he abstained from prostrating even though Allah had commanded him to do so, just as He had commanded the angels. If an analogy is made we see that Iblis is vain. For indeed clay is better than fire because in it can be found the qualities of calmness, clemency, perseverance and growth; whereas in fire can be found heedlessness, insignificance, haste, and incineration.
Iblis tried in vain to justify his refusal: "Shall I prostrate to one whom You created from clay?" Iblis said: "See? those whom You have honored above me, if You give me respite (keep me alive) to the Day of Resurrection, I will surely seize and mislead his offspring (by sending them astray) all but a few!" (Ch 17:62 Quran).
 
شَادِنُ;1555924 said:
Therefore he abstained from prostrating even though Allah had commanded him to do so

Where do we derive this from? Hadiths? Since the verse clearly says that Allah commanded the angels.
 

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