Taliban - The moral equivalent of America's founding fathers.

[جوري]

We use opioids in many forms for cancer patients and yes even alcohol!
Khalid Ibn Ilwaleed used to sit in alcohol baths after being wounded in battles!

This reply is for mustafa since I am using my phone to reply!

 

[Mustafa2012]

We use opioids in many forms for cancer patients and yes even alcohol!
Khalid Ibn Ilwaleed used to sit in alcohol baths after being wounded in battles!

This reply is for mustafa since I am using my phone to reply!

:jz:

If it's being used for medicinal purposes then :alhamd:

 

[جوري]

:jz:

If it's being used for medicinal purposes then :alhamd:

:Allah: :swt: knows best akhi- don't believe anything the media writes about the taliban, anyone or anything else. I have just by following the Egyptian news and actively seeing it on the grounds learned that it is nothing more than a psychological game on public opinion. Probably the only thing of any value here is when the Taliban representative was speaking to the fox news guy. At least you get a first hand account of what is going on straight from his mouth and if you notice his explanation was far divorced from 99% of the crap written against them.
Why do you think Afghanistan was a center of foreign invasion way before the Taliban came to the scene? Take out your map and have a look at the large gas pipeline that runs through there as well the fortune in natural resources they're sitting on.. and as a general rule it is the case of any place currently under occupation. Africa itself has been raped and ravaged by these so-called civilized high moral ground dispensing warlords.
Just in recent history if you well, British around 1700 something, the soviets after them, the Americans now- btw it has always been known as the graveyard of empires so I guess they can keep trying with one form or another. That being said- I feel bad for the Afghans the true ones not the westernized creeps you see in the west, for their endurance is monumental and for centuries - may :Allah::swt: make them ever steadfast!

 

[Independent]

And are they really selling the opium for medical benefits?

I think it's safe to say that Sister Shaden is the very first person to make this particular excuse.

 

[جوري]

I think it's safe to say that Sister Shaden is the very first person to make this particular excuse.

I also happen to be one of the few doctors on board.
Are you?
Medicine isn't an 'excuse'.

Imam Shafi’i (may Allah have mercy on him) also said: “I am not aware of anything, besides the knowledge of Halal and Haram (ilm al-halal wa ‘l-haram, i.e. Islamic knowledge) nobler than the knowledge of Medicine.”

when we see your qualifications in Uloom al fiqh and your license in medicine or at least when you're able to gauge a topic to a level without the unusual presumptions to what I am allegedly allowing of and what I am opposed to, can we have this conversation again =)

best,

 

[جوري]

The mother of all conundrums for me personally is how nations known for waging opium wars on China as punishment for their isolationist policies have the galls at all to speak of moral 'high grounds' ... an oscillating moral compass to suit their agenda!

 

[Qurratul Ayn]

...Taliban themselves have at different times both condemned and permitted opium growing...

Also, whatever opium they cultivate or permit is not going into legal pharmaceuticals. It's going to narcotics gangs and dealers. It funds crime all over the world, and in Afghanistan/Pakistan it funds the Taliban.

Where in Afghanistan is this opium made in abundance and it is the world's largest production of it too? Helmand Province

Now who in the Helmand Province have their camps there and use the domestic airport heavily and frequently? The British Camp Bastion, the U.S. Leatherneck camp and NATO-led forces.

What, all of it is going to the Taliban? The Western camps don't take any? They don't use their facilities to distribute it around the world? They only use it for good? Pshhhhtttt...

 

[Independent]

Now who in the Helmand Province have their camps there and use the domestic airport heavily and frequently? The British Camp Bastion, the U.S. Leatherneck camp and NATO-led forces.

The NATO forces (which are steadily withdrawing from Helmand) were concentrated there precisely because it is a Taliban stronghold. It's not credible that the Taliban are playing no part in this trade.

What, all of it is going to the Taliban? The Western camps don't take any? They don't use their facilities to distribute it around the world? They only use it for good? Pshhhhtttt...

This kind of random accusation is a waste of time. For the NATO forces or government, to be caught in such a trade means disaster, imprisonment, loss of office etc. The disincentives are huge, the rewards hard to hide. Whereas for the Taliban, they can do what they want and no one holds them to account.

when we see your qualifications in Uloom al fiqh and your license in medicine or at least when you're able to gauge a topic to a level without the unusual presumptions to what I am allegedly allowing of and what I am opposed to, can we have this conversation again =)

Hard to understand what this sentence means exactly or what relevance anybody's medical qualifications are. It's funny how, in your view, everyone else is not qualified to talk about a particular subject but you always are. Weird.

In any case, i really don't know where you're going with the whole 'opium as legitimate trade' angle. Even the Taliban don't claim this about themselves, so i don't see why anyone else should.

 

[جوري]

Hard to understand what this sentence means exactly or what relevance anybody's medical qualifications are. It's funny how, in your view, everyone else is not qualified to talk about a particular subject but you always are. Weird.

In what way is it 'weird' with statements such as this:

es, and alcohol has at times been valuable as a sedative and as a 'water purifier' - yet you're opposed to that.

It is only fair to elicit a response with your expertise on medicine, religion and my own personal beliefs!

 

[Urban Turban]

If you have nothing to say, best to say nothing.

...and yet you have 380 posts

 

[Independent]

In what way is it 'weird' with statements such as this

We're drifting way off topic here - but alcohol has positives in history as well as negatives. In 1700 the two largest cities in the world were Tokyo and London. Normally, cities were limited in size by access to safe drinking water supplies. In Tokyo's case this was overcome by the habit of drinking tea (ie boiled water). In London's, the secret was in drinking beer (ie fermented water). It should be said that this beer was much weaker than a typical beer today!

 

[Mustafa2012]

I also happen to be one of the few doctors on board.
Are you?
Medicine isn't an 'excuse'.

Imam Shafi’i (may Allah have mercy on him) also said: “I am not aware of anything, besides the knowledge of Halal and Haram (ilm al-halal wa ‘l-haram, i.e. Islamic knowledge) nobler than the knowledge of Medicine.”

when we see your qualifications in Uloom al fiqh and your license in medicine or at least when you're able to gauge a topic to a level without the unusual presumptions to what I am allegedly allowing of and what I am opposed to, can we have this conversation again =)

best,

:salamext:

:ma:

No offence to any non medics but I feel the opinion of a doctor re: the medicinal benefits of a drug holds more weight than a non qualified medical professional.

 

[Mustafa2012]

The mother of all conundrums for me personally is how nations known for waging opium wars on China as punishment for their isolationist policies have the galls at all to speak of moral 'high grounds' ... an oscillating moral compass to suit their agenda!

:ma:

Does anyone have anything to say about this post?

No?

Ok then!

Let's call it a day shall we?

 

[Independent]

Does anyone have anything to say about this post?

What is there to say? Sister Shaden appears to be both condemning the British for trading in opium in the 19th century (when it was not illegal) at the same time as condoning the Taliban for doing the same thing in the 20th century (when it is illegal). I haven't a clue how this is supposed to make any sense.

 

[Mustafa2012]

What is there to say? Sister Shaden appears to be both condemning the British for trading in opium in the 19th century (when it was not illegal) at the same time as condoning the Taliban for doing the same thing in the 20th century (when it is illegal). I haven't a clue how this is supposed to make any sense.

How do you know for sure that they're not selling it for medicinal purposes which is not illegal?

 

[Independent]

How do you know for sure that they're not selling it for medicinal purposes which is not illegal?

Firstly, because they've never claimed it themselves.
Secondly, because they don't have any supply relationship with a relevant pharmaceutical company.
Thirdly, because the crop is far too big for any medicinal use.

Apart from Sister Shaden, i've never come across this idea anywhere.

 

[Mustafa2012]

Firstly, because they've never claimed it themselves.
Secondly, because they don't have any supply relationship with a relevant pharmaceutical company.
Thirdly, because the crop is far too big for any medicinal use.

Apart from Sister Shaden, i've never come across this idea anywhere.

1. They don't need to claim it as they are entitled to do what they want in their own country. Unless anyone can provide hard evidence that they're supplying it for illegal uses then we shouldn't make accusations.

2. Can you say for sure they don't have any supply relationship with a relevant pharmaceutical company? What if they're lesser known companies in non western countries?

3. That's an assumption. If there are medicinal uses for opium then it would be a good investment to grow as much of it for future use.

 

[Independent]

1. They don't need to claim it as they are entitled to do what they want in their own country. Unless anyone can provide hard evidence that they're supplying it for illegal uses then we shouldn't make accusations.

2. Can you say for sure they don't have any supply relationship with a relevant pharmaceutical company? What if they're lesser known companies in non western countries?

3. That's an assumption. If there are medicinal uses for opium then it would be a good investment to grow as much of it for future use.

I don't think you realise just how ridiculous this suggestion is and I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain it to you.

This thread has moved from praising the Taliban for stopping the opium trade (by beheading farmers) to claiming what a great bunch of guys they for growing the stuff so it can be used in western medicines.

Make up your mind which one you want to defend them for.

 

[Mustafa2012]

I don't think you realise just how ridiculous this suggestion is and I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain it to you.

This thread has moved from praising the Taliban for stopping the opium trade (by beheading farmers) to claiming what a great bunch of guys they for growing the stuff so it can be used in western medicines.

Make up your mind which one you want to defend them for.

Why not both?

If we're going to be accusing people of certain crimes then at least being some credible evidence that would hold weight in a court of law.

In a court of law I'm sure you're already aware that assumptions and personal opinions don't count for anything.

Let's not go down the "WMD" route that your wonderful leaders used, shall we.

We all know how many innocent lives that took.

Western governments hold the guinness book of world records for the no. of innocent lives they've taken based on lies and deception, yet some of their citizens still have the guts to call the very nations that they've destroyed, as barbaric.

 

[جوري]

1. They don't need to claim it as they are entitled to do what they want in their own country. Unless anyone can provide hard evidence that they're supplying it for illegal uses then we shouldn't make accusations.

(when it was not illegal)

when it is illegal).

I am confused really. Were you not speaking of 'moral high grounds' just a couple of posts ago or was that our imagination?
Are you trying to make OK and 'legal' the opium enselavment of the Chinese and for the mere fact that they refused to do business with your country?

Also what have you offered by way of 'hard evidence' All you've ever done is quote papers from your like minded fellows on the evils of the Taliban. Again, outside of that one video of a first hand account of a Taliban member speaking, I haven't seen anything else by them on here!

. If there are medicinal uses for opium then it would be a good investment to grow as much of it for future use.

That's what the inavders are doing there anyway aside from looting all else they can, and Sr. Quarata Al'Ayn in the previous post has pointed that out!

I don't think you realise just how ridiculous this suggestion is and I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain it to you.

I suspect this is because you've no credibility. Try to make consistent that 'high moral grounds' you speak of and then perhaps you'll not find yourself with a noose tight around your neck!

best,