Talmud - Jewish secret "holy" book

[titus]

who knows?

You posted the picture so only you can answer the question, but then you have shown you are quite adept at evasion.

That is because whatever you are referring to is no point of interest to me, the point of interest is the one I personally presented.

You are the one that said "The original thread isn't filled with lies". I pointed out the lies and gave links, which you asked for, to back that up.

Now you want to say you don't care? You are fooling nobody.

Name calling? has hysteria too been banned from the politically correct dictionary? hilarious.
let me get out my kid glove to handle you with.

I understand that it is difficult, if not impossible, for you to have a discussion without insulting and name calling so I should not have brought it up. I hope that some day you and I may actually be able to have an intelligent discussion without the immaturity.

And generally try to focus on a point, so that you don't come across as hysterical but also a disjointed pedant!

Again, you said that the original post contained no lies. It is full of them.

You said "I care for the truth", then turn around and imply that you don't care if people lie about the Talmud. You said "the purpose of the thread is to highlight contents in the talmud that others should be made aware of".

If the purpose of this thread is to educate people about the Talmud, and those statements are lies, and you care about the truth then how can you continue to ignore the lies in the original post?

 

[جوري]

You posted the picture so only you can answer the question, but then you have shown you are quite adept at evasion.

How can I possibly know how everyone feels?

You are the one that said "The original thread isn't filled with lies". I pointed out the lies and gave links, which you asked for, to back that up.

You haven't actually backed up what I asked for, nor are the links you provided of any relevance, third party info. from wikipedia is hardly a source on Jewish theology.

Now you want to say you don't care? You are fooling nobody.

Indeed I don't!

I understand that it is difficult, if not impossible, for you to have a discussion without insulting and name calling so I should not have brought it up. I hope that some day you and I may actually be able to have an intelligent discussion without the immaturity.

You haven't been in hysterics? forgive me then, and what a sad thing for that to be your baseline!

Again, you said that the original post contained no lies. It is full of them.

see statement number II

You said "I care for the truth", then turn around and imply that you don't care if people lie about the Talmud. You said "the purpose of the thread is to highlight contents in the talmud that others should be made aware of".

Indeed, and I think that has been established to some satisfaction!

If the purpose of this thread is to educate people about the Talmud, and those statements are lies, and you care about the truth then how can you continue to ignore the lies in the original post?

see statement II


all the best!

 

[titus]

You haven't actually backed up what I asked for, nor are the links you provided of any relevance

I provided a link written by a Rabbi (Gil Student) in addition to others.

If sources are important in order to refute the statements, then what is the source of the original post that made the accusations?

You should ask yourself why you require no burden of proof from those that say the Talmud tells Jews they can cheat and kill non-Jews, but won't even take the word of a Rabbi when they are refuted. I think that explains all your posts and where exactly you are coming from.

You don't care about the truth. You have already decided what your "truth" is and you won't let facts or research get in the way.

If you truly care about the truth then read the Talmud (which you obviously have not) where such claims are made. Examine the sources of these claims. Examine what kind of sites propagate these claims. Then get back with me on how reliable they are for dispensing knowledge about Judaism and Islam.

I would provide the links but they are not appropriate for a Muslim forum since they spread lies about Islam with almost as much venom as they do about Judaism.

You haven't been in hysterics?

Nope. I think by reading both of our posts it is obvious who the one is who is resorting to name calling and insults.

Peace.

 

[جوري]

I provided a link written by a Rabbi (Gil Student) in addition to others.

If sources are important in order to refute the statements, then what is the source of the original post that made the accusations?

You should ask yourself why you require no burden of proof from those that say the Talmud tells Jews they can cheat and kill non-Jews, but won't even take the word of a Rabbi when they are refuted. I think that explains all your posts and where exactly you are coming from.

You don't care about the truth. You have already decided what your "truth" is and you won't let facts or research get in the way.

If you truly care about the truth then read the Talmud (which you obviously have not) where such claims are made. Examine the sources of these claims. Examine what kind of sites propagate these claims. Then get back with me on how reliable they are for dispensing knowledge about Judaism and Islam.

The link you provided, had absolutely nothing to do with what I queried. You were dying from the get go to project your angst toward another member out on me, and sadly you always come up empty, so you repeat yourself ad-nauseam in hopes at some point, I'll cave in to your pedantry!

Either way, whether they have certain views to rebut whatever is written overtly or covertly, actions sill do speak louder than words, and certainly the latest organ theft in Haiti shows how much regard to human life and the sanctity toward those 'gentiles'!

I would provide the links but they are not appropriate for a Muslim forum since they spread lies about Islam with almost as much venom as they do about Judaism.

What is the point of this? you really must ask yourself if you are driven by a purpose, because I really couldn't give a **** what you think I should feel under great duress of political correctitude!

Nope. I think by reading both of our posts it is obvious who the one is who is resorting to name calling and insults.

Peace.

To me it is obvious that you are a man in hysterics. Try to make a list of what your needs are, and if we can't amicably reach the same point, then pls do learn when to call it quits..


all the best

 

[Ramadhan]

It is not any more distasteful than calling the followers of a religion apes and pigs.

This is a lie. Get your so called "facts" straight before you launched any accusation against the Qur'an, because it will definitely make you look like an unlearned person.
There is nothing in the qur'an that calls jews as pigs and monkeys.
Allah indeed has turned some into pigs and monkeys for their grave disobedience, but never called them pigs and monkeys.


This is the verse that you may have referred to QS. 5:60:

Muhsin Khan
Say (O Muhammad SAW to the people of the Scripture): "Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah: those (Jews) who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, those of whom (some) He transformed into monkeys and swines, those who worshipped Taghut (false deities); such are worse in rank (on the Day of Resurrection in the Hell-fire), and far more astray from the Right Path (in the life of this world)."
Pickthall
Shall I tell thee of a worse (case) than theirs for retribution with Allah? (Worse is the case of him) whom Allah hath cursed, him on whom His wrath hath fallen and of whose sort Allah hath turned some to apes and swine, and who serveth idols. Such are in worse plight and further astray from the plain road.
Yusuf Ali
Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"

 

[titus]

The link you provided, had absolutely nothing to do with what I queried.

You said the original post was the truth. I provided a Rabbi saying it was not. It absolutely pertained to your post.

You, though, always refuse to admit when you are wrong, as though this was some contest between me and you instead of discovering the truth.

Either way, whether they have certain views to rebut whatever is written overtly or covertly, actions sill do speak louder than words, and certainly the latest organ theft in Haiti shows how much regard to human life and the sanctity toward those 'gentiles'!

Sure they do. I know many Jews and not a one of them is an amoral organ thief.

You have an obvious hatred of Jews so no matter how many facts you are confronted with you will justify in your mind why it is acceptable to hate them. Deny it all you want, but it is obvious to anyone who can read your posts. You are not one to let facts get in the way of your opinion.

You are no different than the person that believes all Muslims are bad people because of Al Qaeda and suicide bombers, you just have a different target. It makes it easier to despise them if you believe they are taught by their religion to be amoral, therefore you refuse to acknowledge the lies spread about them.

This is a lie. Get your so called "facts" straight before you launched any accusation against the Qur'an, because it will definitely make you look like an unlearned person.
There is nothing in the qur'an that calls jews as pigs and monkeys.
Allah indeed has turned some into pigs and monkeys for their grave disobedience, but never called them pigs and monkeys.

Naidamar, what you say may be correct, but that does not stop some Muslims from calling them that anyway and saying the Quran backs them up. HERE is a link giving an example. I think anyone with any decency would find this video distasteful.

From reading the Quran and the quotes in context it seems obvious to me that it does not call all Jews apes and pigs, just this small group. Others on this thread, though, refuse to do the same with the Talmud that would show them the truth about what it actually says instead of defending those that make ludicrous statements about it.

 

[Ramadhan]

Naidamar, what you say may be correct, but that does not stop some Muslims from calling them that anyway and saying the Quran backs them up. HERE is a link giving an example. I think anyone with any decency would find this video distasteful.

From reading the Quran and the quotes in context it seems obvious to me that it does not call all Jews apes and pigs, just this small group. Others on this thread, though, refuse to do the same with the Talmud that would show them the truth about what it actually says instead of defending those that make ludicrous statements about it.

You can always find followers from any religions calling the others names and claim that they are backed by their holy scriptures.
But this is not what you (and sister skye) were doing. You were comparing whats written in the scriptures.

So, you should stick to what's written in the scriptures instead of what the followers say about each others.
And if anyone has any problem with the talmud verses that are made available here, then let them refute verse by verse and tell us if those verses do not exist in the talmud.

 

[titus]

And if anyone has any problem with the talmud verses that are made available here, then let them refute verse by verse and tell us if those verses do not exist in the talmud.

Why is the burden of proof on the accused instead of the accuser?

I have posted links of educated Jews explaining what the Talmud says. I have even posted a link of the entire Talmud. People need to read the source and then see if they will come here and say the same things.

Instead, what we have here is someone starting a thread by copying and pasting an article that can be found on numerous hate websites. Then every Muslim member of this forum that I have seen so far has said that these "facts" are true until proven false, instead of asking the original poster to show proof that they are true, all while completely ignoring every link I have posted (including the one that prints the entire Talmud).

You can always find followers from any religions calling the others names and claim that they are backed by their holy scriptures.

The Talmud is not a holy scripture. It is written account of discussions about codes and morals.

The Torah is the Jewish holy scripture.

 

[Ramadhan]

Why is the burden of proof on the accused instead of the accuser?

I have posted links of educated Jews explaining what the Talmud says. I have even posted a link of the entire Talmud. People need to read the source and then see if they will come here and say the same things.

Instead, what we have here is someone starting a thread by copying and pasting an article that can be found on numerous hate websites. Then every Muslim member of this forum that I have seen so far has said that these "facts" are true until proven false, instead of asking the original poster to show proof that they are true, all while completely ignoring every link I have posted (including the one that prints the entire Talmud).

I actually have checked most of what is written in the op against talmud made independently available on the internet, and while the op is simplification, but the gist remain the same.

it must be maddening for the jews whose own talmud and torah contain so many verses and rules which are not so politically correct these days while found nothing in the Qur'an that they can destroy.

The Talmud is not a holy scripture. It is written account of discussions about codes and morals.

The Torah is the Jewish holy scripture.

I stand corrected. But still the laws contained in the talmud is the basis and foundation of the jewish nation.
And it doesn't change the fact that you were talking about the books (talmud, qur'an) and then when it was convenience for you, you exclaimed:
"but there are muslims who say things I found distasteful and they claim it's backed with the qur'an!"

 

[جوري]

You said the original post was the truth. I provided a Rabbi saying it was not. It absolutely pertained to your post.

and there is certain truth in it indeed which is yet to be refuted by an a Jew and not some third party individual via wiki.
BTW I notice that you repeatedly dodge the son of a w hore passages for passages that I haven't mentioned and take the circuitousness route to allege that it is what I'd meant to say, when in fact I haven't at all.. why focus on a straw-man for dear life every time... How pathetic are you?

You, though, always refuse to admit when you are wrong, as though this was some contest between me and you instead of discovering the truth.

How is it wrong? I don't need to have any knowledge at all of their book contents to base my opinion solely on their actions globally. in fact when a number of Muslims are terrorists (if they truly are) it isn't at all as significant as a number of Jews, given that there are billions of us and 13 million of them.. Do some math before you open your yap with some concocted similes ey?
Are you also going to deny the Haganah, Irgun and the stern gang? their very foundation are terrorist organizations, making your quips about Muslims, oh so petty!

Sure they do. I know many Jews and not a one of them is an amoral organ thief.

Perhaps they are just the recipient of it then?

You have an obvious hatred of Jews so no matter how many facts you are confronted with you will justify in your mind why it is acceptable to hate them. Deny it all you want, but it is obvious to anyone who can read your posts. You are not one to let facts get in the way of your opinion.

I loathe Israel, IDF, the zionist agenda and their supporters yes, I didn't think it was a big mystery. But I don't hate 'Jews' they are human beings and a people of the book!

You are no different than the person that believes all Muslims are bad people because of Al Qaeda and suicide bombers, you just have a different target. It makes it easier to despise them if you believe they are taught by their religion to be amoral, therefore you refuse to acknowledge the lies spread about them.

Maybe indeed.. whatever the case, I believe that I have clarified that I don't care to correct any stereotypes, so perhaps your efforts would be better channeled to Daniel Pipes, or Spencer? You'll have quite an uphill battle and your efforts are rather wasted here, especially on me!

All the best

 

[titus]

And it doesn't change the fact that you were talking about the books (talmud, qur'an) and then when it was convenience for you, you exclaimed:
"but there are muslims who say things I found distasteful and they claim it's backed with the qur'an!"

You are correct and sorry if I offended.

How is it wrong? I don't need to have any knowledge at all of their book contents to base my opinion solely on their actions globally.

Then simply say you don't like them and let it be. Don't try to defend lies about the Talmud when you obviously know nothing about it.

BTW I notice that you repeatedly dodge the son of a w hore passages for passages that I haven't mentioned and take the circuitousness route to allege that it is what I'd meant to say, when in fact I haven't at all.. why focus on a straw-man for dear life every time... How pathetic are you?

I have already mentioned those passages and said I do not care about them. They may be true. To me those passages are nothing more than religious name calling if they are true, and scholars disagree on whether they refer to Jesus or not.

The passages I claim are lies you brought absolutely no shred of proof to back up. Can you even tell me the author of these claims? Yet you defend them.

Are you also going to deny the Haganah, Irgun and the stern gang? their very foundation are terrorist organizations, making your quips about Muslims, oh so petty!

So bad Jews exist, therefore this is somehow supposed to back up your argument that the original post is true? The Stern gang has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the Talmud says that Jews are allowed to cheat non-Jews. Straw man indeed.

 

[Uthman]

Please debate respectfully. No calling other members 'pathetic' etc.

 

[جوري]

Then simply say you don't like them and let it be. Don't try to defend lies about the Talmud when you obviously know nothing about it

.

I'll say what I want to say, not what you desire to be said!

I have already mentioned those passages and said I do not care about them. They may be true. To me those passages are nothing more than religious name calling if they are true, and scholars disagree on whether they refer to Jesus or not.

it doesn't matter because that was my focus all along, which you shifted to make the usual non-points!

The passages I claim are lies you brought absolutely no shred of proof to back up. Can you even tell me the author of these claims? Yet you defend them.

I don't need to back them up since I didn't post them to begin with, and again, even if they don't exist the reality of things is that they need not be written down for one to observe them in real life!

So bad Jews exist, therefore this is somehow supposed to back up your argument that the original post is true? The Stern gang has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the Talmud says that Jews are allowed to cheat non-Jews. Straw man indeed.

Neither do Muslims 'terrorists'-- I enjoy a red-herring as much as the next guy, but I think you've milked it for all you can and it is time for you to find another object to reform or get a new hobby..


all the best!

 

[titus]

I don't need to back them up since I didn't post them to begin with, and again, even if they don't exist the reality of things is that they need not be written down for one to observe them in real life!

Then please, in the future, do not come claiming such accusations to be fact.

it doesn't matter because that was my focus all along, which you shifted to make the usual non-points!

My focus was always on the ones that I knew were not true. I never mentioned those passages when talking about the ones that were lies. Read this thread again Skye and you will see.

I don't need to back them up since I didn't post them to begin with, and again, even if they don't exist the reality of things is that they need not be written down for one to observe them in real life!

If your hatred is justified then justify it with facts, not with made up fallacies about the Talmud.

 

[جوري]

Then please, in the future, do not come claiming such accusations to be fact.

A 'fact' is what the eye can see, not what is written on papers!

My focus was always on the ones that I knew were not true. I never mentioned those passages when talking about the ones that were lies. Read this thread again Skye and you will see.

And my focus was on the ones that I knew were true. Read again and you will see!

all the best

 

[titus]

A 'fact' is what the eye can see, not what is written on papers!

If you claim the papers say one thing when they actually say another, that is a lie.

And my focus was on the ones that I knew were true. Read again and you will see!

You said:

"The original thread isn't filled with lies"

Do you still stand by that? Is the original post completely accurate?

 

[جوري]

If you claim the papers say one thing when they actually say another, that is a lie.

How is it a lie?

You said:

"The original thread isn't filled with lies"

Do you still stand by that? Is the original post completely accurate?

It is not a statement of integrality but in part, and as such the most important is what you have chosen to repeatedly ignore!

I think you need to take your head out of the 'All' 'none' 'always' 'never' affirmations, as they not only reflect poorly on you to project your own ideas into another when at a loss for something to work with but it is very pedantic as well-- didn't they teach you in grade school that you can shouldn't make a statement of absolution? you have much to learn and I am not the one who shall be expending effort teaching you. firstly because you fail to rouse my interest and secondly because it is a frank waste of my time..


all the best

 

[titus]

It is not a statement of integrality but in part

So you admit that it is a mixture of lies and truth?

 

[جوري]

So you admit that it is a mixture of lies and truth?

No! as stated previously, I don't share a platform with you and don't have pedantic approach to the world around me..


all the best

 

[titus]

If by pedantic you mean I am concerned with the truth, then you bet I am.

If someone can read such a topic that tries to convince you that a religion is evil and teaches its followers they are allowed to cheat and kill people who are not a member of their religion without questioning it then we know that the truth is irrelevant to them.