tangled marriage mess - help!

[BNDGR]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. It is true that I don't care about the money issue. Allah has blessed me far beyond what I deserve, so my income is such that I could support all five of us if I needed to without problem.

I spoke with him about it today. We are going next Saturday morning to meet with an imam whom we both respect inshallah. I suspect he will say much the same as you have said and I have concluded, that this is generally a bad idea.

I told him this today, and he offered another suggestion. He suggested that we enter into a mut'ah for six months to see how it goes when she gets here. All of the "fun" and none of the commitment - how does that make it any better?

He spoke with her on the phone (finally) yesterday. He told her that when she gets here, she will need to go back to school so that she can get a good job. She currently works in the legal system there, but her credentials and her English skills are insufficient to get anything much above unskilled labor here. She was furious with him, and started shouting on the phone asking why should she come in the first place. She has a good job, a nice house, a nice car, and lots of family and friends in Iraq. Here she will have nothing but him, and if he has his way, only half of that.

(it does seem as though his family back home likes to shout at him a lot....LOL)

So he tells me he's not even sure she will really come, and if she does he doesn't think it will work. I am thinking now this second wife business is more of a ploy to keep me bound to him until the first wife decides what she will do.

I could not help but to ask him what would keep him from taking a secret second wife on me if we did have a single marriage down the road. He laughed, of course, and said that with me there would be no need.

Right.

So I think I'm going to let the imam be the one to tell him the bad news next weekend. I will not say that it will be easy for me to do. Having been alone for the past four years, the offer of any companionship is tempting especially with someone who is otherwise so compatible.

But maybe temptation is the key word here....

I think I'll wait for something more honest and correct, even if it means I have to wait the rest of my life. I don't have the beauty, but I do have the other three qualities. Maybe one day a good brother will decide three out of four is enough?

Mashallah you are so strong sis! I'm a fairly new Muslim also and your story was close to a lot of stories I'm hearing happening with new sisters. May Allah swt give you strength and inshallah bless you with a pious true and loving husband.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I told him this today, and he offered another suggestion. He suggested that we enter into a mut'ah for six months to see how it goes when she gets here. All of the "fun" and none of the commitment - how does that make it any better?

it doesn't. what is in this for you? seriously?
all the best

 

[UmmSqueakster]

One thing to think about - he's sneaking around behind his wife's back and chatting with women. Who's to say he wouldn't do the same to you? How would you feel if you found out he had wife #3 or 4 on the down low?

 

[Salahudeen]

an a man marry a second time without the first wife having to know about the second wife the man is not getting along with his wife but has a child with her he does not want the first wife to know because he believes the wife would take the child away from him he doesnt want the childs life disrupted and believes she will not allow him to marry again
25/11/2009

Answer:

Assalamu alaikum

Many thanks for this question. First, we need to understand the concept of second marriage in Islam, which is misconceived by majority of Muslims and paved the way for Islam to be defamed. In Islam, the second marriage is entirely based on certain conditions which must be fulfilled. Justice, (fair dealing with all wives) and provide all financial requirements. This is from the condition of every marriage whether it is first or second, to publicise it among the people. Islam does not accept any kind of deception. Most of the Muslims do second nikah either for their love or bad relation with their first wife and thus disregard the basic conditions of Shariah which resulted in so many problems. In your case, we may find the same nature and you are now in a difficulty. To me the best way is that you should try to let your first wife know about this situation by involving some of your elders and ulama close to your family. I know, you can't hide it from her for ever. If she know by herself, that would be more serious and chaos for you in your family. I make dua for you.

Wassalam

 

[mammyluty]

hey evryone is forgeting the most important victim here,and that is the daughter.hes planning to take the daughter away from the mother,,,thats haram haram haram because that will hurt the mother and it will affect the girl big time.the evidence is in the book of ibn kathir volume one.how will u sisters feel if ur husbands was planning a scheme to take ur children away from through divorce.what if the girl ends up hating the step mother....will the man abandon the daughter to be wth u just because he loves u?i feel very sory for the the wife n mostly the girl.i was taken away from my mother when i was 5 yrs old wth my dads family because my mother was a revert at that time n now am wth my mum but we r like strangers.sister even if ul end up marrying him but never let him take the girl away from her mother.put urself in her shoes.its obvious his intentions r fishy.

Allah is just n he answers the dua of the oppresed!

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

hey evryone is forgeting the most important victim here,and that is the daughter.hes planning to take the daughter away from the mother,,,thats haram haram haram because that will hurt the mother and it will affect the girl big time.the evidence is in the book of ibn kathir volume one.how will u sisters feel if ur husbands was planning a scheme to take ur children away from through divorce.what if the girl ends up hating the step mother....will the man abandon the daughter to be wth u just because he loves u?i feel very sory for the the wife n mostly the girl.i was taken away from my mother when i was 5 yrs old wth my dads family because my mother was a revert at that time n now am wth my mum but we r like strangers.sister even if ul end up marrying him but never let him take the girl away from her mother.put urself in her shoes.its obvious his intentions r fishy.

Allah is just n he answers the dua of the oppresed!

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, we all agree that the sister should not pursue marriage with this man any longer. However we should all be aware of what Islam says on what should happen to children after a divorce for our own knowledge aswell as conveying to others if they don't know:

If and when a marriage unfortunately comes to an end, the problems of the parties involved should not in any way affect the children. Children are a trust (amanah) from Allah and they should be treated and looked after in a proper manner.

They have many rights, of which two are of utmost importance: to receive proper care and love, and the other proper upbringing (tarbiyah). Theses rights of a child can not be fulfilled except with the joint endeavour of the parents. The love, care and attention of the mother is just as important as the upbringing and training of the farther.

In light of the above, divorce should definitely be avoided as much as possible, especially in the case where children are involved. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

“Divorce is the most hated of all lawful (halal) things in the sight of Allah” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 2178).

However, if divorce did take place, and both parties demand their rights, then the right of custody will be in the following way. In should be remembered here that there is nothing wrong in making a mutual arrangement, as long as there is no objection from those who have a right to custody.

The mother has a right of custody for a male child until the child is capable of taking care of his own basic bodily functions and needs, such as eating, dressing and cleaning himself. This has been recognized at seven years of age.

Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“The custody of a male child is the right of the mother until the child is capable of taking care of his own self. This has been approximated at seven years of age, and the Fatwa (legal verdict) has been issued on this age, as normally children are able to take care of themselves at this age” (See: Radd al-Muhtar, 3/566).

In the case of a female, the mother has this right of custody until she reaches puberty. This has been declared at nine years of age. (al-Mawsili, al-Ikhtiyar li ta’lil al-mukhatr, 3/237).

The right of custody will be taken away from the mother if she:

1) Leaves Islam

2) Openly indulges in sins such as adultery and there is a fear of the child being affected

3) She does not attend to the child due to her leaving the house very often

4) She marries a non-relative (stranger) to the child by which the child may be affected

5) She demands payment for the upbringing of the child if there is another woman to raise the child without remuneration

In the above cases (when the mother no longer has the right to custody), this right then transfers to the following in order:

a) Maternal grandmother, and on up;

b) Paternal grandmother, and on up;

c) Full sisters

d) Maternal half sisters

e) Paternal half sisters

f) Maternal aunts

g) Paternal aunts

After all the avenues of the female have been exhausted as explained by the Jurists, the males have the right of custody in the following sequence:

a) Father

b) Paternal grandfather

c) Real brother

d) Paternal brother

e) Maternal brother

The reason for this is that, in the early years, the mother and the other female relatives are more suitable for raising the young child (regardless of sex) with love, mercy, attention, and motherly care. The male child after reaching the age of understanding (7) is in need of education and acquiring masculine traits, which is why he is then transferred to the farther. The female child, after reaching the age of understanding is in need of being inculcated with female traits, which she receives by living with her mother. After reaching puberty, she is in need of protection which the farther offers.

In a Hadith recorded by Imam Abu Dawud in his Sunan, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to a woman who complained that her husband was intending to take her child away from her: “You are more rightful of the child as long as you don’t marry” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 2276 & Mustadrak al-Hakim, 2/207).

It should also be remembered that after the transferral of custody from the mother to the farther, the boy remains in the custody of the farther until puberty, at which point, if he is mature and wise, he is free to choose with whom to live, or to live on his own. As for the girl, custody remains with the farther until she marries (See: Qadri pasha, Hanafi articles, 498 & 499).

Irrespective of who (mother/father) has the rights of custody, the other party has visitation rights according to mutual understanding and consent. Generally, the party having the rights of custody uses the child as a weapon to punish the other party by depriving them of visitation rights. This is totally against the concept of Islam and a grave sin. It is also very harmful to the child.

At all times the father of the child is responsible for maintaining the child; in the case of a female, until she marries; while in the case of a healthy male, until he reaches maturity. In the case of a disabled child (male or female) the father is permanently responsible.


When the mother has the rights of custody but does not have a shelter to stay in with the child, the father must provide shelter for both. (See Radd al-Muhtar of Ibn Abidin).

With the above, I hope all your questions have been answered.

And Allah Knows Best
Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester, UK

 

[mammyluty]

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, we all agree that the sister should not pursue marriage with this man any longer. However we should all be aware of what Islam says on what should happen to children after a divorce for our own knowledge aswell as conveying to others if they don't know:

If and when a marriage unfortunately comes to an end, the problems of the parties involved should not in any way affect the children. Children are a trust (amanah) from Allah and they should be treated and looked after in a proper manner.

They have many rights, of which two are of utmost importance: to receive proper care and love, and the other proper upbringing (tarbiyah). Theses rights of a child can not be fulfilled except with the joint endeavour of the parents. The love, care and attention of the mother is just as important as the upbringing and training of the farther.

In light of the above, divorce should definitely be avoided as much as possible, especially in the case where children are involved. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

“Divorce is the most hated of all lawful (halal) things in the sight of Allah” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 2178).

However, if divorce did take place, and both parties demand their rights, then the right of custody will be in the following way. In should be remembered here that there is nothing wrong in making a mutual arrangement, as long as there is no objection from those who have a right to custody.

The mother has a right of custody for a male child until the child is capable of taking care of his own basic bodily functions and needs, such as eating, dressing and cleaning himself. This has been recognized at seven years of age.

Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“The custody of a male child is the right of the mother until the child is capable of taking care of his own self. This has been approximated at seven years of age, and the Fatwa (legal verdict) has been issued on this age, as normally children are able to take care of themselves at this age” (See: Radd al-Muhtar, 3/566).

In the case of a female, the mother has this right of custody until she reaches puberty. This has been declared at nine years of age. (al-Mawsili, al-Ikhtiyar li ta’lil al-mukhatr, 3/237).

The right of custody will be taken away from the mother if she:

1) Leaves Islam

2) Openly indulges in sins such as adultery and there is a fear of the child being affected

3) She does not attend to the child due to her leaving the house very often

4) She marries a non-relative (stranger) to the child by which the child may be affected

5) She demands payment for the upbringing of the child if there is another woman to raise the child without remuneration

In the above cases (when the mother no longer has the right to custody), this right then transfers to the following in order:

a) Maternal grandmother, and on up;

b) Paternal grandmother, and on up;

c) Full sisters

d) Maternal half sisters

e) Paternal half sisters

f) Maternal aunts

g) Paternal aunts

After all the avenues of the female have been exhausted as explained by the Jurists, the males have the right of custody in the following sequence:

a) Father

b) Paternal grandfather

c) Real brother

d) Paternal brother

e) Maternal brother

The reason for this is that, in the early years, the mother and the other female relatives are more suitable for raising the young child (regardless of sex) with love, mercy, attention, and motherly care. The male child after reaching the age of understanding (7) is in need of education and acquiring masculine traits, which is why he is then transferred to the farther. The female child, after reaching the age of understanding is in need of being inculcated with female traits, which she receives by living with her mother. After reaching puberty, she is in need of protection which the farther offers.

In a Hadith recorded by Imam Abu Dawud in his Sunan, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to a woman who complained that her husband was intending to take her child away from her: “You are more rightful of the child as long as you don’t marry” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 2276 & Mustadrak al-Hakim, 2/207).

It should also be remembered that after the transferral of custody from the mother to the farther, the boy remains in the custody of the farther until puberty, at which point, if he is mature and wise, he is free to choose with whom to live, or to live on his own. As for the girl, custody remains with the farther until she marries (See: Qadri pasha, Hanafi articles, 498 & 499).

Irrespective of who (mother/father) has the rights of custody, the other party has visitation rights according to mutual understanding and consent. Generally, the party having the rights of custody uses the child as a weapon to punish the other party by depriving them of visitation rights. This is totally against the concept of Islam and a grave sin. It is also very harmful to the child.

At all times the father of the child is responsible for maintaining the child; in the case of a female, until she marries; while in the case of a healthy male, until he reaches maturity. In the case of a disabled child (male or female) the father is permanently responsible.


When the mother has the rights of custody but does not have a shelter to stay in with the child, the father must provide shelter for both. (See Radd al-Muhtar of Ibn Abidin).

With the above, I hope all your questions have been answered.

And Allah Knows Best
Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester, UK

sory i dont know how to qoute a parragraph only but the above hadith that says about a woman who went to the prophet peace be upon him.so when a woman with children gets divorced n remaries to another man,should she hand over the kids to the ex husband[thier father]?
n if theres divorce n the woman does not hand over the child when he or she is the right age according to the shariah,is she sinning?cos all the divorced women i know none of them dared to give away thier children to their fathers.

shukran for the knowledge u shared i didnt know all these.

 

[OurIslamic]

Make du'a to Allah(SWT).

You can't become a second wife if you aren't treated equally, and it would be haram to keep it a secret from his first wife.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

sory i dont know how to qoute a parragraph only but the above hadith that says about a woman who went to the prophet peace be upon him.so when a woman with children gets divorced n remaries to another man,should she hand over the kids to the ex husband[thier father]?
n if theres divorce n the woman does not hand over the child when he or she is the right age according to the shariah,is she sinning?cos all the divorced women i know none of them dared to give away thier children to their fathers.

shukran for the knowledge u shared i didnt know all these.

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, the boy has to be raised up by the father until puberty anyway because of the fact that he needs to have instilled in him masculine traits and then when he reaches puberty he can choose who to live with either the mother or the father.

If the mother re-marries then the daughter cannot stay with her as the mothers new husband will not be her mahram for he will be a strange man to her and many a time there have been sexual abuse cases resulting from the new marriage partner of the mother because there is no connection between the father and mother and so he will be a strange man to the daughter. So it is the fathers responsibility to look after the daughter until she marries.

Regardless of who keeps who both parents have visitation rights of children and this can be done on mutual grounds or by the courts.

 

[Donia]

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, the boy has to be raised up by the father until puberty anyway because of the fact that he needs to have instilled in him masculine traits and then when he reaches puberty he can choose who to live with either the mother or the father.

If the mother re-marries then the daughter cannot stay with her as the mothers new husband will not be her mahram for he will be a strange man to her and many a time there have been sexual abuse from the new marriage partner of the mother because there is no connection between the father and mother and so he will be a strange man to the daughter. So it is the fathers responsibility to look after the daughter until she marries.

Regardless of who keeps who both parents have visitation rights of children and this can be done on mutual grounds or by the courts.

Salaamu alaikum.
Thank you for the information and most of it does make sense..
However, do the same stipulations apply to the father not being able to have custody (when he should normally be able to) as to the mother as far as if he leaves islam.. and so on.. That list that you put up. Does it apply to the father as well?
If I understood correctly, that means that if a woman wants to keep her children with her, she cannot remarry...
Did I misunderstand?
JazakAllah.

 

[جوري]

I too would like evidence of the above.. I haven't heard of these custodial laws before and would like some ahadith and scholarly reviews insha'Allah

:wa:

 

[cat eyes]

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, the boy has to be raised up by the father until puberty anyway because of the fact that he needs to have instilled in him masculine traits and then when he reaches puberty he can choose who to live with either the mother or the father.

If the mother re-marries then the daughter cannot stay with her as the mothers new husband will not be her mahram for he will be a strange man to her and many a time there have been sexual abuse from the new marriage partner of the mother because there is no connection between the father and mother and so he will be a strange man to the daughter. So it is the fathers responsibility to look after the daughter until she marries.

Regardless of who keeps who both parents have visitation rights of children and this can be done on mutual grounds or by the courts.

ya this certainly dose make sense to me ive heard of a story where the step father slept with the daughter she was only like 15 or something and they ran off together+o(

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Salaamu alaikum.
Thank you for the information and most of it does make sense..
However, do the same stipulations apply to the father not being able to have custody (when he should normally be able to) as to the mother as far as if he leaves islam.. and so on.. That list that you put up. Does it apply to the father as well?
If I understood correctly, that means that if a woman wants to keep her children with her, she cannot remarry...
Did I misunderstand?
JazakAllah.

Yes of course the father has to remain Muslim but if not then he cannot have custody of the children as they will need an Islamic upbringing.

The women may have the boy after he goes through puberty or after 7 years of age as he needs a fatherly and masculine upbringing and then he may choose whether to live with his mother or remain with the father.

The women cannot re-marry if she wants to keep her daughter or she could wait until her daughter is married because of the fact that her husband would not be the mahram of her new partner and he would be a stranger to her. Also in most cases the new partner would not treat the children as his own and therefore will not give them the proper love they require.

 

[Donia]

Thank you for your response.

As far as a mother not being able to keep her daughter/s if she should remarry.
I am confused.

I understand the stepfather would not be a mahram to the daughters BUT...
I thought if the mother marries somebody, then her daughters become impermissible to her new husband for marriage.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Of course we have heard the sick stories of men abusing their situation.. Adhubillah.. but there are also stories of men who step in and raise the children right and are good men alhumdulillah..
So if the father or mother has left Islam, these custody arrangements do not apply to them?
I just don't see a mother easily giving up her child...