Taweez (Amulets) in light of the Quran and Sunnah

[aaj]

Assalaamu alaikum Aaj,

(gently) Do you realize that you are issuing a fatwa yourself? Please be careful, because one who declares something haraam is taking a great burden upon him or herself.

:wasalam:

Thank you for pointing that out. I guess its not scholarly consensus as much as what is the soundest opinion among the scholars.

so you can't prove what you have claimed... It should be known to you that there was NO CONSENSUS OF SCHOLARS ON QURAN TAWEEZ BEING HARAM.... AND YOU CAN'T PROVE IT.... It also shows that you can't do academic discussion... the AHADITH WHICH HAVE BEEN QUOTED FOR ITS PROHIBITION CAN'T BE PROVEN AS AUTHENTIC... You have no deep knowledge of this issue...

Let me break it down for you once again.

It was narrated from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir al-Juhani that a group came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) [to swear their allegiance (bay’ah) to him]. He accepted the bay’ah of nine of them but not of one of them. They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, you accepted the bay’ah of nine but not of this one.” He said, “He is wearing an amulet.” The man put his hand (in his shirt) and took it off, then he (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) accepted his bay’ah. He said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 16969)

This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 492.



The scholars of the Standing Committee said:


The scholars are agreed that it is haraam to wear amulets if they contain anything other than Qur’aan, but they differed concerning those which do contain Qur’aan. Some of them said that wearing these is permitted, and others said that it is not permitted. The view that it is not permitted is more likely to be correct because of the general meaning of the ahaadeeth, and in order to prevent means of shirk.


Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood.

(Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/212)

I left it at that for the readers, but you just don't want to let it go and continue to fight over this. So....


Take all the scholars out of the equation. Go back to the original source. No scholar is above the prophet and the 4 righteous caliph that followed him. Unless you disagree?

No?

Then

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: )

I don't care which scholar said it's not allowed and which one said it's allowed. They are only students, their teachers are the ones above. Prove to me the teachers approved of this!

 

[azc]

@aaj @Scimitar : see consensus of 4 madhab on this issue:.... According to Hz sh ibn Taimiyya rh: Quranic taweez is allowed... (Majmu al Fatawa : vol 19 : page 64-65) scan page

According to Hz Imam Ahmad bin hambal rh: Quranic taweez is allowed.(Za’ad ul Ma’ad : vol 4 : page 327)
scan page

According to Hz Imam Shafi'i rh: Quranic taweez is allowed(Fathul Baari : vol 6 : page 142) scan page:

According to Hz imam Malik rh.a: Quranic taweez is allowed...(Al Majmua : vol 2 page 84) scan page:

According to Hz Imam Abu Hanifa rh: Quranic taweez is allowed(Kitaab ul Aasaar : vol 2 : page 758) scan page:

 

[aaj]

@aaj @simi lar : see consensus of 4 madhab on this issue:.... According to Hz sh ibn Taimiyya rh: Quranic taweez is allowed... (Majmu al Fatawa : vol 19 : page 64-65) scan pagehttps://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/mfsiaitm19_page65.pngAccording to Hz Imam Ahmad bin hambal rh: Quranic taweez is allowed.(Za’ad ul Ma’ad : vol 4 : page 327)scan pagehttps://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/04_37675_page327.pngAccording to Hz Imam Shafi'i rh: Quranic taweez is allowed(Fathul Baari : vol 6 : page 142) scan page: https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.file...a7d984d8a8d8a7d8b1d98a-6_page142.pngAccording to Hz imam Malik rh.a: Quranic taweez is allowed...(Al Majmua : vol 2 page 84) scan page: https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/magm02_page84.pngAccording to Hz Imam Abu Hanifa rh: Quranic taweez is allowed(Kitaab ul Aasaar : vol 2 : page 758) scan page: https://ulamaehaqulamaedeoband.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/athar_alshibany_page769.png

Like I said,

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)

I don't care which scholar said it's not allowed and which one said it's allowed. They are only students, their teachers are the ones above. Prove to me the teachers approved of this!

 

[azc]

Since you can't let it go, this is haram and bidah. The hadith of the prophet :saws1: supersedes ALL the proof and scholars you bring forth. The hadith is clear and general, meaning to includes ALL types of taweez.since you can't follow the jammah and the consensus of the scholars and the soundest opinion among the scholars and wants to go fatwa/scholar shopping till you find one that promotes your bidah.Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: )

:wasalam:Thank you for pointing that out. I guess its not scholarly consensus as much as what is the soundest opinion among the scholars.Let me break it down for you once again. It was narrated from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir al-Juhani that a group came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) [to swear their allegiance (bay’ah) to him]. He accepted the bay’ah of nine of them but not of one of them. They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, you accepted the bay’ah of nine but not of this one.” He said, “He is wearing an amulet.” The man put his hand (in his shirt) and took it off, then he (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) accepted his bay’ah. He said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.” (Narrated by Ahmad, 16969) This hadeeth was classed as saheeh by Shaykh al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 492. The scholars of the Standing Committee said: The scholars are agreed that it is haraam to wear amulets if they contain anything other than Qur’aan, but they differed concerning those which do contain Qur’aan. Some of them said that wearing these is permitted, and others said that it is not permitted. The view that it is not permitted is more likely to be correct because of the general meaning of the ahaadeeth, and in order to prevent means of shirk. Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Ghadyaan, Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Qa’ood. (Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 1/212) I left it at that for the readers, but you just don't want to let it go and continue to fight over this. So....Take all the scholars out of the equation. Go back to the original source. No scholar is above the prophet and the 4 righteous caliph that followed him. Unless you disagree? No? ThenProve to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: )I don't care which scholar said it's not allowed and which one said it's allowed. They are only students, their teachers are the ones above. Prove to me the teachers approved of this!

what I'm saying to you again and again that NO SCHOLAR FROM SALAF OR KHALAF DECLARED QURANIC TAWEEZ AS HARAM.... ONLY MODERN AGE SCHOLARS CLAIM THIS LIKE SH ALBANI, SH IBN BAAZ, SH UTHAIMEEN ETC it means only a set of scholars of this age is going against the CONSENSUS OF UMMAH...

 

[azc]

[MENTION=39296]aaj[/MENTION] rove the authenticity of ahadith by the statement of a'imma of ilm arrijal... I don't accept sh albani as one of them... Sorry... For your information ''Ibn Lahiya'' is the narrator of all these ahadith and HE WAS A WEAK NARRATOR.... Write the chain of narrator...

 

[azc]

Like I said,Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)I don't care which scholar said it's not allowed and which one said it's allowed. They are only students, their teachers are the ones above. Prove to me the teachers approved of this!

It proves you a brainwashed and a blind follower of your OWN scholars as if ONLY THEY KNOW THE HADITH and REST ALL SCHOLARS OF THIS UMMAH, 4 IMAMS, MUHADDISIN EVEN HZ SAHABA IKRAM RA COULDN'T UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE RATHER PERMITTED SHIRK AND DID SHIRK THEMSELVES BY WRITING QURAN TAWEEZ. (Ma'azAllah)... May Allah swt give you sound mind and sound knowledge. Ameen

 

[aaj]

@aaj rove the authenticity of ahadith by the statement of a'imma of ilm arrijal... I don't accept sh albani as one of them... Sorry... For your information ''Ibn Lahiya'' is the narrator of all these ahadith and HE WAS A WEAK NARRATOR.... Write the chain of narrator...

No scholar disputed sh albhani saying it's a sahih hadith. You are going to deny a sahih hadith now because you don't accept from a scholar? who happens to among the knowledgeable and respected scholars?

and you accuse others of blind following and brain washing? rather then the following the soundest opinion?

what I'm saying you again and again that NO SCHOLAR FROM SALAF OR KHALAF DECLARED TAWEEZ AS HARAM.... ONLY MODERN AGE SCHOLARS CLAIM THIS LIKE SH ALBANI, SH IBN BAAZ, SH UTHAIMEEN ETC it means only a set of scholars of this age is going against the CONSENSUS OF UMMAH...

First of all, there is NO consensus of the Ummah.

Secondly, sh uthaymeen and all the scholars you have been quoting are MODERN age scholars. So why are you crying about modern age scholars ?

thirdly, the no salaf or khalaf declared taweez as haram is a LIE. Do you even bother reading what we share here?

This was the view of Ibn Mas’ood and Ibn ‘Abbaas, and is the apparent meaning of the view of Hudhayfah, ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir and Ibn ‘Akeem (may Allaah be pleased with him).

This was also the view of a group of the Taabi’een, including the companions of Ibn Mas’ood and Ahmad, according to one report which was chosen by most of his companions.

There!

Not just salaf but the sahabah and uncle of the Prophet and the taabieen. The first 3 generations, regarded as the BEST of this ummah.

Now stop whining like kid and avoiding my request.


Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)

 

[azc]

No scholar disputed sh albhani saying it's a sahih hadith. You are going to deny a sahih hadith now because you don't accept from a scholar? who happens to among the knowledgeable and respected scholars? and you accuse others of blind following and brain washing? rather then the following the soundest opinion? First of all, there is NO consensus of the Ummah. Secondly, sh uthaymeen and all the scholars you have been quoting are MODERN age scholars. So why are you crying about modern age scholars ? thirdly, the salaf or khalaf declared taweez as haram is a LIE. Do you even bother reading what we share here? This was the view of Ibn Mas’ood and Ibn ‘Abbaas, and is the apparent meaning of the view of Hudhayfah, ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir and Ibn ‘Akeem (may Allaah be pleased with him). This was also the view of a group of the Taabi’een, including the companions of Ibn Mas’ood and Ahmad, according to one report which was chosen by most of his companions. There! Not just salaf but the sahabah and uncle of the Prophet and the taabieen. The first 3 generations, regarded as the BEST of this ummah. Now stop whining like kid and avoiding my request. Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)

You are proving nothing... Just writtin isn't enough... Sh albani is not reliable for non salafis... And I'm not a salafi... Since you are regurgating the same stuff without proving anything... So I take one by one... The ahadith you've quoted write their ''full Sanad''...

 

[aaj]

You are proving nothing... Just writtin isn't enough... Sh albani is not reliable for non salafis... And I'm not a salafi... Since you are regurgating the same stuff without proving anything... So I take one by one... The ahadith you've quoted write their ''full Sanad''...

Like I said, forget all the scholars.

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)

 

[azc]

I think this thread has been discussed a bit long and both views have been posted on the board..... Now the members can conclude which is the correct view ...............Topic is over.

 

[aaj]

@aaj : No, brother, this is not the correct way of academic discussion where we, without being biased, can learn from each other. I asked you for chains of narrators of hadith but you couldn't give,.... so I, being your brother in Islam, wish to help you. E.g. Hadith of Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Okaim Rz. It is transmitted through different chains: Now see one ravi is Ibn Laila who is the main narrator of all the chains and he is weak you can see in taqreeb, tehzeeb, meezan, al kamal etc books of rijal. You may confirm it. Don't trust me or anybody else until you verify his status in narrating a hadith..... Now the thread has been discussed a bit long..... So I rest this discussion.... Wassalam....... Imam Ahmed Rh. — > Muhammed ibn Jafer Rh. — > Shoba Rh. — > Muhammed Yaani Ibn Abi Laila Rh. – > Isaa Rh. — > Abdullah Ibn Okaim Rh. — > Prophet SAW.(Musnad e Ahmed : vol 31 : page 81).........Imam Haakim Rh. — > Abul Abbas Muhammed bin Ahmed Al Mahboobi Rh. — > Saeed bin Masood Rh. — > Ubaidullah bin Musa Rh. — > Ibn Abi Laila Rh. – > Isa Rh. — > Abdullah Ibn Okaim Rh. — > Huzur SAW.(Mustadrak Al Haakim : vol 4 : page 341) .........Imam Tirmizi Rh. — > Muhammed Ibn Madduwai Rh. — > Ubaidullah bin Musa Rh. — >Muhammed bin Abdur rehman Bin Abi Laila Rh. — > Isaa Rh. — > Abdullah bin Okaim Rh. — > Huzur SAW.(Sunan e Tirmizi : vol 4 : page 403)

No brother, don't even bother. You who accuse others of "brainwashed and a blind follower of your OWN scholars" and yet refuse to listen to any other scholars besides the one that support your bidah. You who refuse to believe sahih hadith because they are not from YOUR scholars and you refuse to follow the SOUNDEST and most CORRECT opinion is going to talk to me about correct way of academic discussion?

No, I don't want an academic discussion. you and I are not scholars to debate on this. I told you before, the sahabas differed on this, the taa'bien differed on this and the scholars differed on this with scholars stating what is most sound opinion and I left it there. But you have been blindly adamant about promoting it as something halal and not letting it go, and yet REFUSE to answer the 3 simple requests and continue to ignore them. I follow the Quran and the Sunnah Inshallah, regardless of which scholar brings it to me. If it is sahih and authentic and is the soundest opinion then that is what I follow. You are lost and if that is where you want to be then we have nothing further to discuss.

And if you can't do the following then we're done here.

Like I said, forget all the scholars.

Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidah
Prove to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did this
Prove to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)

 

[azc]

No brother, don't even bother. You who accuse others of "brainwashed and a blind follower of your OWN scholars" and yet refuse to listen to any other scholars besides the one that support your bidah. You who refuse to believe sahih hadith because they are not from YOUR scholars and you refuse to follow the SOUNDEST and most CORRECT opinion is going to talk to me about correct way of academic discussion? No, I don't want an academic discussion. you and I are not scholars to debate on this. I told you before, the sahabas differed on this, the taa'bien differed on this and the scholars differed on this with scholars stating what is most sound opinion and I left it there. But you have been blindly adamant about promoting it as something halal and not letting it go, and yet REFUSE to answer the 3 simple requests and continue to ignore them. I follow the Quran and the Sunnah Inshallah, regardless of which scholar brings it to me. If it is sahih and authentic and is the soundest opinion then that is what I follow. You are lost and if that is where you want to be then we have nothing further to discuss. And if you can't do the following then we're done here. Like I said, forget all the scholars.Prove to me the Prophet :saws1: did this bidahProve to me the 4 righteous caliphs that came after him did thisProve to me this is part of the sunnah (FYI, sunnah is the actions and sayings of the Prophet :saws1: NOT the scholars or madhabs)

regurgating the same stuff is of no use. You have put your views on the board and I've done mine...... So Now let the other members decide which is the correct view.......

 

[aaj]

regurgating the same stuff is of no use. You have put your views on the board and I've done mine...... So Now let the other members decide which is the correct view.......

No, I put BOTH views OF the scholars on the board. You brought your deoband and braveli scholars.

This is not a game. members don't decide which is the correct view. The scholars have stated which is the most correct view. yet you fail to pay heed.

And you failed to prove it is part of the Sunnah or something the Prophet and the the 4 Righteous Caliphs condoned, repeatedly choosing to ignore the request.

 

[anatolian]

What about Jawshan? I remember a narration that the Prophet Aleyhisselam wore it in a battle, though not sure of the authenticity

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

Assalaamu alaikum Aaj,


(mildly) I was not referring to the OP, but to your post regarding the opinion given by the scholar from Seekershub, Faraz Rabbani. I myself know little about these things, but I searched for some clarity from a source that is reliable. I apologize if I hurt you.

(mildly) And my post was not so much to you, but was exploring some ideas that I have been researching and thinking about of late- that of the rigidity in the modern era as contrasted to the flexibility that was the hallmark of Islam in traditional times. (pensively) Indeed, it is not just understandings of Islam that have been affected by this rigidity; it seems to be a feature of modernity. (smile) But these are thoughts in progress. Perhaps I am mistaken.


May Allah, the Merciful, Forgive us when we realize we have erred, and turn to Him with humble hearts.

He believes it is permissible to ask the dead for help [istighaatha]. Are you sure you would want to take "guidance" from him on any matter?

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

What about Jawshan? I remember a narration that the Prophet Aleyhisselam wore it in a battle, though not sure of the authenticity

Subhaan Allaah. Just yesterday I stumbled upon that and was reading about it. It is a Shia invention. Fabricated and falsely attributed to the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

https://islamqa.info/en/105378

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=116232

 

[MuslimInshallah]

He believes it is permissible to ask the dead for help [istighaatha]. Are you sure you would want to take "guidance" from him on any matter?

Assalaamu alaikum Zeeshan,


(mildly) If you want to reference things he has said, then why not quote him (with source), along with any explanations for what he is saying, so that we can better understand what is his position? And then, if you feel that his opinions are incorrect, you could offer another scholar's perspective (with source), and his/her reasoning.

(smile) In this way, we can all learn more on this topic, inshAllah, in a manner that is, I believe, more pleasing to Allah.


May God, the Gentle, Guide us to goodness towards one another as we sincerely strive to understand His Will.

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

Assalaamu alaikum Zeeshan,


(mildly) If you want to reference things he has said, then why not quote him (with source), along with any explanations for what he is saying, so that we can better understand what is his position? And then, if you feel that his opinions are incorrect, you could offer another scholar's perspective (with source), and his/her reasoning.

(smile) In this way, we can all learn more on this topic, inshAllah, in a manner that is, I believe, more pleasing to Allah.


May God, the Gentle, Guide us to goodness towards one another as we sincerely strive to understand His Will.

So, you are admitting you do not know of his position of istighaatha?

Oh don't worry about quoting. Anyone who knows me knows Ill bring quotes for the Arabic, let alone English, someone else puts up. That is what I do.

I just want to know if you are ignorant of his positions and yet follow him?

Are you?

 

[ZeeshanParvez]

Assalaamu alaikum Zeeshan,


(mildly) If you want to reference things he has said, then why not quote him (with source), along with any explanations for what he is saying, so that we can better understand what is his position? And then, if you feel that his opinions are incorrect, you could offer another scholar's perspective (with source), and his/her reasoning.

(smile) In this way, we can all learn more on this topic, inshAllah, in a manner that is, I believe, more pleasing to Allah.


May God, the Gentle, Guide us to goodness towards one another as we sincerely strive to understand His Will.

What exactly do you mean by understanding His Will?

You think us humans with our knowledge which is like a drop in an ocean - not even that - to His will ever be able to encompass His Will or anything other than what He Himself tells us?

 

[azc]

What exactly do you mean by understanding His Will?You think us humans with our knowledge which is like a drop in an ocean - not even that - to His will ever be able to encompass His Will or anything other than what He Himself tells us?

bro, will you see what she has asked for in her post. Thanks