The Bible -- What is it?

[SistaSista]

My belief on the Bible as we know it, in this day and age, contains parts of the gospel and the torah, which have been corrupted by mankind (how many editions are there?), resulting in it not being a true and pure reflection of the word of God, and it leads to polythesism, ie thinking Jesus (pbuh) is the Son of God, and generally straying from the straight path.

This is why God, sent down the Noble Qur'an, which has been memorised, in original language, word for word by so many people, so that it can never be corrupted or forgotton. Even if all the copies disappeared.

Bible is not a true dipiction of what God wanted from us, so we were given the last chance for salvation by accepting Mohammad (saw) as the last prophet and believing in the Oneness of Allah (swt), ascribing no partners to Allah.

So I am thinking the bible is a folktale, pertaining to blasphemy :X

 

[Muhaba]

:

I have. I believe you will find that many if not most of us reverts were quite religious when we were Christians and read the bible frequently and completely.

oh really? and you didn't find it confusing? what were your feelings? did you feel that some parts couldn't be from God?

 

[Muhaba]

The people of the time believed many strange things about how the earth was held up on the backs of animals, etc. When did people learn about the earth’s atmosphere?
Job 26
7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
he suspends the earth over nothing.

Isaiah 40
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

It is true that some parts of the bible are from God, but not all of it is from God. people have corrupted it. Have you read all of the bible? what are your feelings about those parts that have contradictions or are confusing? what about the very bad words written about some of the Prophets (like Prophet Lot or Prophet Job?)

 

[Hafswa]

About the bible being a love letter, I've heard a lot of christians emphasizing that God is a god of love, and loves everybody unconditionally.
But then they argue about how his holiness requires a payment for every single sin, and that's why there is punishment.
Now my question is, how can a holy god love a sinning person who insists on sinning?

I beg to differ with you opinion of Christianity or it could be that you were misinformed. We are not required to pay for any sin we have committed. Christ paid it all for us.
That sacrifice is sufficient for us to receive pardon from God. This has also been used by others to say that Christians are therefore encouraged to sin because of this. No, we are required to live lives that demonstrate that we are reedeemed, pray, fast, read the Bible and apply these teachings to our day to day lives.
As humans, we do sin and fall astray and that's where God's mercy and grace are demonstrated ONLY if you repent and seek forgiveness .
You ask how can God love a person who sins and I ask, do you disown your or a child because he/she went against your instruction? Naturally, we would all try to steer them back to the right path(according to your beliefs and principles) .

 

[Grace Seeker]

About the bible being a love letter, I've heard a lot of christians emphasizing that God is a god of love, and loves everybody unconditionally.
But then they argue about how his holiness requires a payment for every single sin, and that's why there is punishment.
Now my question is, how can a holy god love a sinning person who insists on sinning?

GreyKode, there is a beautiful analogy posted on another thread that many Muslims find endearing, I share it with you here:

A BEAUTIFUL ANALOGY!

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they
eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said: "I don't
believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.

"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God
doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick
people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would
be neither suffering nor pain. I can't imagine a loving God who would
allow all of these things."

The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he
didn't want to start an argument.

The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after
he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy,
dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt.

The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said
to the barber: "You know what? Barbers do not exist."

"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber. "I am here, and I
am a barber. And I just worked on you!"

"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they
did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed
beards, like that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! " answered the barber. "What happens, is,
people do not come to me."

"Exactly!"- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES
exist! What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for
Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."

Not only does God exist, but he is also both loving and holy. It is people who are not. But that doesn't keep God from himself being holy and loving them despite their unholiness. His love is not conditioned by our behavior any more than a mother's love is conditioned by her children always being good and obedient.

 

[glo]

The bible is like a jungle. you can't find your way through it. who here has read the bible (all of it)?

I have - several times.
I continue to read the Bible every day, and it continues to reveal new truths and insights to me ...

Salaam

 

[GreyKode]

I beg to differ with you opinion of Christianity or it could be that you were misinformed. We are not required to pay for any sin we have committed. Christ paid it all for us.
That sacrifice is sufficient for us to receive pardon from God. This has also been used by others to say that Christians are therefore encouraged to sin because of this. No, we are required to live lives that demonstrate that we are reedeemed, pray, fast, read the Bible and apply these teachings to our day to day lives.
As humans, we do sin and fall astray and that's where God's mercy and grace are demonstrated ONLY if you repent and seek forgiveness .
You ask how can God love a person who sins and I ask, do you disown your or a child because he/she went against your instruction? Naturally, we would all try to steer them back to the right path(according to your beliefs and principles) .

We are not required to pay for any sin we have committed. Christ paid it all for us.

Exactly. But why death of someone to take away sins, can't god just forgive.
The reason is, as I was told, is that in christianity the payment for every single sin is death, why?.. because God is holy, therefore to balance the equation someone must die and ofcourse the sacrifice must be big enough to take away all sins of humanity and thus the sacrifice must be no other than god/son of god etc.

do you disown your or a child because he/she went against your instruction?

I guess not, but would I ever send him to hell? I mean, in christianity you believe in hell, then how can GOD love the ones whom he sends to hell?

I can accept God being loving but not unconditionally.

In Islam we believe that we are not children of GOD, in the sense that as we can attain god's mercy and grace, we have to fulfill our responsibilities towards him or suffer the consequences.

 

[Hafswa]

Exactly. But why death of someone to take away sins, can't god just forgive.
The reason is, as I was told, is that in christianity the payment for every single sin is death, why?.. because God is holy, therefore to balance the equation someone must die and ofcourse the sacrifice must be big enough to take away all sins of humanity and thus the sacrifice must be no other than god/son of god etc.



I guess not, but would I ever send him to hell? I mean, in christianity you believe in hell, then how can GOD love the ones whom he sends to hell?

I can accept God being loving but not unconditionally.

In Islam we believe that we are not children of GOD, in the sense that as we can attain god's mercy and grace, we have to fulfill our responsibilities towards him or suffer the consequences.

The issues raised in your post have been debated in several previous threads.
To avoid derailing this thread, I'd be more than glad to clarify on these questions in a separate thread or on PM.

 

[Zico]

The Bible -- What is it?

The word "Bible" is derived from the Greek word biblia, meaning "books." The earliest sacred Judeo-Christian writings were set down separately, at different times, on scrolls of papyrus or vellum. When these independent elements were bound together, they were called "Bibles."

Source

You welcome!

 

[alcurad]

I'd say it is indeed Man's personal interpretation as you have quoted in the first post, but would add that it isn't historically accurate at that.
should indeed be valued as one values Chaucer's, Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Whitman etc.

second

 

[Grace Seeker]

But why death of someone to take away sins, can't god just forgive.
The reason is, as I was told, is that in christianity the payment for every single sin is death, why?.. because God is holy, therefore to balance the equation someone must die and ofcourse the sacrifice must be big enough to take away all sins of humanity and thus the sacrifice must be no other than god/son of god etc.

I wonder if the highlighted portion of what you were told you may not have quite understood. (Or maybe you do.) But as Hafswa has said, detailing this here would derail this thread. However, there are plenty of other threads in which a fuller discussion of such a topic would be appropriate. Please ask in one of then if you seek to better understand what it is that Christians believe regarding this. We'll be more than happy to do our best to explain there.

 

[Follower]

I have read all of the Holy Bible as a Book from GOD and as a high school student [public high school!] as a an example of exceptional literary work.

I have also been to read the Holy Bible for many Bible study classes.

Why would GOD allow part of the Gospel or Torah to become corrupt? Which part? When?

On another thread I was trying to show how there were actually false "gospels" written around the 2nd century, after the time of the original Gospel. Christians all know these were false it was obvous to the followers of the True Gospel.

The false "gospels" were written to further the cause of the heretical cults.

In fact GOD did protect the true Gospel.

 

[Woodrow]

I have read all of the Holy Bible as a Book from GOD and as a high school student [public high school!] as a an example of exceptional literary work.

I have also been to read the Holy Bible for many Bible study classes.

Why would GOD allow part of the Gospel or Torah to become corrupt? Which part? When?

On another thread I was trying to show how there were actually false "gospels" written around the 2nd century, after the time of the original Gospel. Christians all know these were false it was obvous to the followers of the True Gospel.

The false "gospels" were written to further the cause of the heretical cults.

In fact GOD did protect the true Gospel.

I have no doubt Allaah(swt) did protect the True Gospel, for as long as it was needed. It was for specific people at a specific time. After, serving it's purpose it was no longer needed. However, I believe books mistaken for the injeel came into being. It does seem that there are quotes from the Injeel in Mark, Matthew, Luke and John. But, that is probably all that remains of the Injeel and we have no original to verify if even those are correctly quoted.

 

[Wyatt]

How is the Bible The Word of God if:

1. Christians pick and choose what they want to practice from it. (Head coverings, women speaking in church, etc...)

2. It's been translated and I have never seen anything in a Christian church with Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, etc... to protect or even recognize any originality. (I have asked many Christians which language Jesus spoke, and I got blank stares, and even English as one response.)

3. It was written by different men, who are imperfect.

I would trust a book from God, such as the Qur'an, rather than a book written by men in the inspiration of God.

To Christians, it seems like they love it because they are told to. It does collect dust in many homes, doesn't it. And, in church (when I was young), it seemed like no one actually read the Bible, but chose random verses they thought were T-Shirt worthy.

If I were a Christian, I think I would put more emphasis on studying the Bible as a historical book from which to pull certain aspects of what/who God is, studying as closely as possible to get the "original" Bible. In no way would I call it The Holy Bible.

Do most Christians interpret it very literally, though?

I don't mean to offend anyone. I'm scared that I might, so I apologize in advance. I don't mean to negatively critisize the Bible like that, but it is my interpretation as to what it is (and I would not call myself an expert on it at all).

 

[Follower]

Podrak- - #1 -some follow some don't,Christians are just like every sinful man and their interpretations play a role; #3 -the only thing actually physically written by the finger of GOD were the 10 comandments

#2 -the originality of the Holy Bible:
Does the fact that there are over 5,000 known ancient Greek manuscript copies (MSS) and fragments of the New Testament in Greek surviving today make the Gospels any more reliable?

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5711&printer_friendly=1

"What that goes to prove is that the text of the New Testament that we have today is almost exactly the same as the text as it was originally written. Of the approximately 138,000 words in the New Testament only about 1,400 remain in doubt. The text of the New Testament is thus about 99.9% established. That means that when you pick up a (Greek) New Testament today, you can be confident that you are reading the text as it was originally written. Moreover, that .1% that remains uncertain has to do with trivial words on which nothing of importance hangs. This conclusion is important because it explodes the claims of Muslims, Mormons, and others that the text of the New Testament has been corrupted, so that we can no longer read the original text. It’s awe-inspiring to think that we can know with confidence that when we pick Paul’s letter to the church in Rome, for example, we are reading the very words he wrote almost 2,000 years ago."

 

[Grace Seeker]

I have no doubt Allaah(swt) did protect the True Gospel, for as long as it was needed. It was for specific people at a specific time. After, serving it's purpose it was no longer needed. However, I believe books mistaken for the injeel came into being. It does seem that there are quotes from the Injeel in Mark, Matthew, Luke and John. But, that is probably all that remains of the Injeel and we have no original to verify if even those are correctly quoted.

Woodrow, seems like quite a number of assumption you are making:

1) That Allah did protect the True Gospel.
2) That the True Gospel is no longer needed.
3) That other books replaced the True Gospel.​

Just to name a few.

Outside of Islamic sources, what other basis would you have for any of these statements?

 

[Tony]

Woodrow, seems like quite a number of assumption you are making:

1) That Allah did protect the True Gospel.
2) That the True Gospel is no longer needed.
3) That other books replaced the True Gospel.​

Just to name a few.

Outside of Islamic sources, what other basis would you have for any of these statements?

We have Glorious Qur'an, all above points...see Qur'an. Outside of Islamic sources are not worthy to discuss Allahs word, with respect.

 

[Grace Seeker]

If I were a Christian, I think I would put more emphasis on studying the Bible as a historical book from which to pull certain aspects of what/who God is, studying as closely as possible to get the "original" Bible. In no way would I call it The Holy Bible.

This is indeed the first step in any Bible study, and we do exactly what you have said. For most people however, we depend on scholars who have gone before us and are more capable of doing the research to produce an accurate text and translation of the Bible than the average person is to do this sort of research (called textual criticism -- see articles: An Introduction to New Testament Textual Criticism, New Advent Encyclopedia article "Biblical Criticism", and TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism) Then, having established a considerably higher degree of confidence in the Bible than scholars of any other text as old as the Bible are able to establish, people are still free to read it for themselves and may, in fact history tells us often do, differ as to the meaning and significance of what they read there. I do not find this particular development of differences in understanding unique to the either the Bible or to Christianity, but common among all religious communities except those closed to outsiders and ruled by some totalitarian individual or oligarchy.

 

[Grace Seeker]

We have Glorious Qur'an, all above points...see Qur'an. Outside of Islamic sources are not worthy to discuss Allahs word, with respect.

I asked the question, because any individual can say "I have the truth and you don't." (I could, and often do, say that with regard to the Bible just as you have for the Qur'an.) However, in the spirit of tolerance and better understanding of where others are coming from I was hoping for a more thoughtful response that would not stoop to just calling one another and their sources unworthy.

 

[Woodrow]

Woodrow, seems like quite a number of assumption you are making:

1) That Allah did protect the True Gospel.
2) That the True Gospel is no longer needed.
3) That other books replaced the True Gospel.​

Just to name a few.

Outside of Islamic sources, what other basis would you have for any of these statements?

Peace Gene,

My "Reader's Digest" condensed version before I got into one of my long winded speeches.

to simplify things and keep it short, you are correct my sources are Islamic.