The creation??

[One Man Army]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

its bin a while since iv posted on here. so i fout mite as well add my bit.

ok theres something that hit me the other day. i need some guidence from my islamic brothers and sisters.

on this forum i learnt that islam says that allah and his creation are to seperate thing. allah has created the creation. but does not reside within it.

now if we fink of 2 different objects, lets say, one being Allah (forgive me for event trying to describe allah in this way, its just the only way i can get it down on here). and another the creation.

for allah to be seperate to the creation, there then therefore must be a bigger void or entity containing the two? also meaning that as allah doesnt reside with in creation, allahs power is limited, either to that void that the 2 reside within, or the fact that they do not reside within the creation themself. i dont mean to offend any one, nor am i trying to prove some theory, its a geniuine query thats come to my attention a few days back.

my belief is that allahs power is limitless and unbound. if they are the supreme being, then they must be residing within all dimensions, space, time, etc. if they are seperate to it, then they are limited hence by a bigger power containing the two, creation and Allah. what is the islamic view on this?

 

[Talha777]

Please no wahegurus.

for allah to be seperate to the creation, there then therefore must be a bigger void or entity containing the two?

This is your wrong assumption. There is nothing that contains Allah, I'll tell you right now your problem is trying to visualize or conceptualize God into some sort of physical form which your brain can compute. This is your problem right there.

No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.
(Al Anam 6:103)​

No one can visualize or conceptualize Allah, HE IS ABOVE ALL COMPREHENSION. This is an important point you need to understand. If a human being can conceptualize God it can only be by comparing Him to something or understanding Him in some familiar form. But this is wrong, because Allah says in Holy Quran:

And there is none like unto Him
(Al Ikhlas 112:4)​

So again, Allah does not reside in any void, you must not understand God as having to reside in something, you must understand Him only as being ABOVE AND BEYOND all the creation. And He is distinct from the creation, for if Allah is inside the creation as sikh believe, than this is limiting His Power and defiling His Sacredness and not befitting of His Holiness.

I hope this answers your question.

 

[barney]

Your question is one that Atheists and Agnostics debate on a daily basis.

As your brother above says, your trying to use human reasoning. In order to have faith, that must be put aside.

 

[alcurad]

following your train of thought, wouldn't the creator still be in a void that contained him if he were part of the world?

 

[Belief_is_Power]

make it simple, worship the creator not the creation.

 

[truemuslim]

^^^ perfect

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Please no Wahegurus.

Waheguru is the name used by Sikhs for God. Plus it's a salutaion, nothing more so please respect it.

Personally the belief that God is limited to the heavens above and nothing else, would limit Gods ability (or the perception of his abilty). God resides EVERYWHERE.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fath (Pure Ones Belong To God, Victory To God)

 

[alcurad]

allah's ability to influence and change extends to all creation, he is not up in heaven either, he is beyond being constrained by physical limits.You still haven't replied to me though, if god were part of all his creation wouldnt he be limited by whatever limits them aswell? besides what would be the whole point of creating in the first place?

 

[ricardo_sousa]

and who create God?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

And who create God?

God is self created.(Saibhang Sai (Self) Bhang (Existent) Or if he was created by another, this would mean his creator would then be labelled God.

 

[ricardo_sousa]

God is self created.(Saibhang Sai (Self) Bhang (Existent) Or if he was created by another, this would mean his creator would then be labelled God.

lol, why you don´t say: "there is not answer to that". Is like the story of the chicken and the egg: who comes first?

If God existed, he had to be a creation of "something", but what?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

lol, why you don´t say: "there is not answer to that". Is like the story of the chicken and the egg: who comes first?

If God existed, he had to be a creation of "something", but what?

No answer I hear you say? I've jsut given you an answer my fellow chap! )

The God of the world and beyond is Self Created. *Bangs Gavel*

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ke Fath (Pure Ones Belong To God, Victory To God)

 

[ricardo_sousa]

So God came from "nothing"?

 

[anatolian]

and who create God?

Wrong question.Atheists/Agnostics have many wrong quesions.If someone has created "God" then God wouldn't be God ,because God is the One who doesnt need another thing to exist. Quran 112:2 Allah is Samad(the One who needs nothing,whom everything needs)

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

So God came from "nothing"?

God cannot be explained.

 

[aamirsaab]

There are two theories relating to God.

1) He exists and therefore must have been created (just like everything). In which case, no man will ever know this answer. Additionally, this theory assumes that The Creator has only one meaning - that is its common everyday meaning e.g. I created a painting.

2) He exists but passages from the Quran (and possibly other holy books) suggest that His existence does not mean he had a maker. This theory therefore means that there are two definitions to a creator. One relates to a being that makes something and one relates specifically to God - a title solely relating to Him. In this case, the creator takes the meaning of The Creator of all things - a namesake and a title as opposed to a job description. In addition to this, there are numerous ayats in the Quran - all aluding to the fact that God wasn't created.

Your average joe often takes theory 1 - if it exists it must have a creator. However, the problem with this is that it becomes a never ending chain of events - in fact, it's much difficult to ascertain the beginning. Whereas, with theory 2, the beginning is clearly defined. Objectively speaking, God's beginning is not stated. However, by understanding what God actually is we can say that since he bares no similarity between mankind, He therefore has no beginning - He is what we can call Eternal. Though, even that is barely scratching the surface of what God is in terms of human description.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

the One who needs nothing,whom everything needs)

You've hit the nail on the head.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

There are two theories relating to God.

1) He exists and therefore must have been created (just like everything). In which case, no man will ever know this answer. Additionally, this theory assumes that The Creator has only one meaning - that is its common everyday meaning e.g. I created a painting.

2) He exists but passages from the Quran (and possibly other holy books) suggest that His existence does not mean he had a maker. .

Yes our religion too states the above. It quotes '' If a person who has a thousand tongues began to explain God, he/she would fail. Also, if all the scholars gatherd to fathom God, they too would fail because Allah the master of the whole creation is beyond explanation. :happy:

Gur Fateh

 

[ricardo_sousa]

Is funny this situation: religious people often accuse atheists of not explaning how the "things" were created, that they believe it comes from "nothing". But when someone asks a simple question of "who created God?" it is not explained.

Have anyone already thought about the limits of the universe? the human concept of infinite to "real things" don´t exist. So what´s is the end of the universe? infinite?

Can "your God", be that God of Earth, but is actually working in a big firm of Gods creating planets trough the universe?

ahh, i spend too much time thinking of this...

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Is funny this situation: religious people often accuse atheists of not explaning how the "things" were created, that they believe it comes from "nothing". But when someone asks a simple question of "who created God?" it is not explained.

Have anyone already thought about the limits of the universe? the human concept of infinite to "real things" don´t exist. So what´s is the end of the universe? infinite?

Can "your God", be that God of Earth, but is actually working in a big firm of Gods creating planets trough the universe?

ahh, i spend too much time thinking of this...

You believe what you believe, and I what I do. I have no need to ask an atheist why they hold these beliefs. Each to their own.