The creation??

[Omari]

You need to take that up with god. But the lack of answers to those kind of questions is a major reason that don't think god cares much about our daily lives.

Can you please explain that sentence? i believe there is an accidental error.. :S

 

[wilberhum]

Can you please explain that sentence? i believe there is an accidental error.. :S

No error. So I will explain. But first, why after you answered my questions, why did you ... it out?
Any way, I will answer, but I expect the same from you.

Life has been good to me, I have no real complaints, but life is not fare. I just had a nice supper while others starve. My house is warm while others freeze. I don't think for one moment that I am better than them. So why is god punishing them? Is god unfair? Is it a test? Why a test? I love my children and my children love me. I have no need to test them. Does that mean I'm better than god? I don't think go. So really there is no need for god to test people. Heck, he already knows the answer.

If he really cared, he would stop the horrors that befall us. He would not allowed people like Hitler to be born.

So my conclusion is easy, god doesn't care.

 

[Yerpon]

Life has been good to me, I have no real complaints, but life is not fare. I just had a nice supper while others starve. My house is warm while others freeze. I don't think for one moment that I am better than them. So why is god punishing them? Is god unfair? Is it a test? Why a test? I love my children and my children love me. I have no need to test them. Does that mean I'm better than god? I don't think go. So really there is no need for god to test people. Heck, he already knows the answer.

If he really cared, he would stop the horrors that befall us. He would not allowed people like Hitler to be born.

So my conclusion is easy, god doesn't care.

You are behaving like a typical narrow-minded disbeliever and claiming that you know everything what is good for God.

So my conclusion is easy, god doesn't care.

Your conclusion is wrong because you can't predict the will of Allah.

 

[wilberhum]

You are behaving like a typical narrow-minded disbeliever and claiming that you know everything what is good for God.
Da, where did I say I know what is good for god?
Why do you make up stuff like that?
Your conclusion is wrong because you can't predict the will of Allah.
I guess you know what is good for Allah.

I accept you believe what you say you believe.
You don't accept I believe what I say I believe.

Yet you say I'm narrow-minded. :uuh:

 

[Yerpon]

I accept you believe what you say you believe.
You don't accept I believe what I say I believe.

Yet you say I'm narrow-minded. :uuh:

No. I call you a narrow-minded person only when you tell me your wrong conclusions about God. Yes, I do accept the world view of atheists, because I know God will not show us Himself here but only His signs and we are free to believe or disbelieve in Him.

 

[Yerpon]

Da, where did I say I know what is good for god?
Why do you make up stuff like that?

Well, this is what you said:

[...]I love my children and my children love me. I have no need to test them. Does that mean I'm better than god? I don't think go. So really there is no need for god to test people.[...]

You claimed that you have the power to think that it will be divinely better if God do what you suggest. That is why I said you were narrow-minded.

 

[krypton6]

So, I conclude, that if god really communicated to us, most everyone would belong to one religion.

So you believe that if god communicated with us we would all be following the same religion. There are 3 abrahamic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Judaism was a valid religion to follow before christianity was born. Humans started changing the Torah and Judaism was no longer the religion of god.
Christianity was the second religion, and it was changed too, adding and taking some out of the Bibel, and it was no longer a valid religion to follow.

The Quran came down but it was never changed! We have a Quran dating back to year 900, and it is identical to the quran that we have today. Not a single word is added or taken out of it! And besides that, we in Islam have millions of muslims who have memorized the quran, and all this started from the birth of Islam. The people who memorized the quran would at anytime have noticed the smallest change, and therefore no one even triet changing the Quran. The Quran are the direct words of god! Some people for some reason still chose to follow Judaism or christianity, but thats their decision.

The quran is clear, we just have to open our minds and eyes for it.

But what's the point of creating us, forcing us to follow the same religion and believe, and then telling us that this is all a test?
I don't believe there is a point. That's why I don't believe what you believe.

I dont believe that god is forcing us to believe in him. I believe that he created us, and gave us free will to either follow his religion (s) or not.

You believe that this being a test is pointless, but you dont believe that letting us live is pointless? I mean if this was just a gift, then it would be a very bad gift. If this was a gift and I was going to die with nothning after it, I would rather have chosen not to be born. The fact that I have to say good bye to my family for ever, is not a gift, and the fact that some are born blind or mutated is not a gift either, its a curse! This isnt a gift, if it was a gift then who ever it is that you believe in would have made it a much better gift.

By that same logic, the creator needs a creator.

What is the creator? What is god? You dont know what god is, and yet your trying to conclude for wether it was created or not?

I see what is in front of me and from there I conclude that it could not have created itself, thereby it must have bin created by a creator. But I dont know the creator, I dont know how it looks and how it is, I only know that it exists, but how can I conclude for myself for wether he was created or not, when I dont even know what it is!

Asking for what created god, is equal to asking what created .....?

You dont know what god is but yet you want to find out what created it?
Everything that I know of has bin created, or must have bin created. God is not included in that "everything" for I dont know what god is! I only know that it must exist!

 

[Omari]

No error. So I will explain. But first, why after you answered my questions, why did you ... it out?
Oh because I answered in Quote, and i can't post unless i type atleast 3 characters. "..." had no intended meaning,
Any way, I will answer, but I expect the same from you.
Inshallah [If god Permits]

Life has been good to me, I have no real complaints, but life is not fare. I just had a nice supper while others starve. My house is warm while others freeze. I don't think for one moment that I am better than them. So why is god punishing them? Only God knows Is god unfair? No, Is it a test? Yes Why is it a test? Well, should you consider the fact that life would be meaningless unless we come to that conclusion, you would have answered yourself. And you said earlier that life is a gift, doesn't a gift need an originator? WHO gave you this gift? Your parents? who gave them the gift? and when you keep going back, you are left with nothing. A question that I ASSUME bothers you, or perhaps needs an answer for you may be, even if god gave us life, WHY did he? if it is a test, WHY is it a test. Let's regard the first question, Why god gave us life? In my opinion and the opinion of many scholars [Christian and Muslim alike] believe its a way for god to show us his power. If YOU had Infinite power, Infinite Knowledge, Infinite Wisdom, Infinite Logic, then surely you would show it, show it off. And by creating the WHOLE universe, god shows us his power. And in this universe he puts US to the test, will we live the life of good? or bad. If we live good, we are rewarded with paradise, If not, we are punished. Hope that answers the question...
I love my children and my children love me. I have no need to test them. Does that mean I'm better than god? I don't think go. So really there is no need for god to test people. Heck, he already knows the answer.

Thank you. He is indeed the ALL knowing. he does know the answer, so WHY a test? well you have to remember that even though god knows exactly what you do in every milli-second of your life, he still gives the person the right of free will. i CAN choose to press the "9" key instead of "8" for example. So let's say God has a book, [God forgive me if i should say anything unlawful] let's say he has a book, and in it he has written the lifetime of EVERY human that lives or has lived. And the choices that he makes are written there, It is still GOD who created the book, the book did not create god, and therefore it can be changed. Hope you get what I'm trying to say there...


If he really cared, he would stop the horrors that befall us[1]. He would not allowed people like Hitler to be born.[2]

[1]God puts "horrors" to either test people, or punish them. There are many stories in the Quran and in the Bible that god sent punishment to those who do wrong. Wether the Innocent jewish civilians were bad or not, that is for god to decide, and what he does with his creation is also for god to decide.

[2] I do not want to go into discussion about hitler, but as the question has been posed I am compelled to answer. Hitler ALWAYS had a choice. The reasons he practiced genocide vary, but they are NOT justified. Be he STILL had that choice of wether he would do it or not. God did not sent him a command to go and kill all the jews. Hitler was a CHRISTIAN, should he have belonged to Islam, should he have followed the commands of Allah (SW) this genocide would never have taken place. As far as to WHY god made him born...again i say that he had the right to free will just as anyone else. I have the choice of picking up a knife and stabbing 10 people on the street, but then i have the choice of saving lives and becoming a doctor , IT IS ALWAYS CHOICE, and its what you choose that inevitably gives you your "label"



So my conclusion is easy, god doesn't care.

I respect your conclusion, Ofcourse. It is again your CHOICE to think wether he cares or not, and your conclusion is obviously not a fact. So really, the argument to wether god cares or not is really baseless. is it not?

Inshalah I have answered your questions.

Peace
Omari

 

[Whatsthepoint]

the life of Adam and Eve prior to the apple consumption was a test. They a knew their life was a test - they were perfectly aware that God exist, they knew the rules and were positive they were from God. They failed to pass the test..
Nowadays, there is no proof that God exist, there is no proof that any religion is from God, nobody knows whose rules (moral standards) to obey...which makes life a pretty bad, unfair test.

 

[Omari]

the life of Adam and Eve prior to the apple consumption was a test. They a knew their life was a test - they were perfectly aware that God exist, they knew the rules and were positive they were from God. They failed to pass the test..
Nowadays, there is no proof that God exist, there is no proof that any religion is from God, nobody knows whose rules (moral standards) to obey...which makes life a pretty bad, unfair test.

There is proof, it's just wether you believe it or not.

Peace

 

[Whatsthepoint]

In my opinion and the opinion of many scholars [Christian and Muslim alike] believe its a way for god to show us his power. If YOU had Infinite power, Infinite Knowledge, Infinite Wisdom, Infinite Logic, then surely you would show it, show it off.

God is supposed to b a perfect being without any needs so he doesn't need to show off, he doesn't need human confirmation of his power.

 

[krypton6]

We are not in the role for deciding why god would want to create us.

The same way that you dont know what I am thinking, you dont know what god is thinking and you could never guess.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

There is proof, it's just wether you believe it or not.
Peace

I disagree.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

We are not in the role for deciding why god would want to create us.

The same way that you dont know what I am thinking, you dont know what god is thinking and you could never guess.

Does the Quran say anything about it?
It's religious people who constantly use human logic to prove and explain the nature of god/s, not me...

 

[Omari]

I disagree.

Just the same way you disagree with proof.

 

[krypton6]

Does the Quran say anything about it?
It's religious people who constantly use human logic to prove and explain the nature of god/s, not me...

No as far as I know the Quran says nothing about why god created us, and I would disagree with any schoolar that claims god created us because ......

 

[Omari]

No as far as I know the Quran says nothing about why god created us, and I would disagree with any schoolar that claims god created us because ......

As a matter of fact Allah says in the quran, Chapter 51 and verse 57 :
"And I have not created the Jin and man but that they worship Me"

 

[Omari]

AND i quote MYSELF:

In my opinion and the opinion of many scholars [Christian and Muslim alike] believe its a way for god to show us his power. If YOU had Infinite power, Infinite Knowledge, Infinite Wisdom, Infinite Logic, then surely you would show it, show it off

Notice i said YOU would want to show it off and not god? God created man and jinn to worship him, isn't this sufficient enough for you to understand that he is showing us his Inifinite power?.

 

[Trumble]

Just the same way you disagree with proof.

You can't disagree with proof, only with whether a certain collection of evidence and argument constitutes proof or not. In this particular case, generally, the only people who believe it does are those who don't require proof anyway.

God created man and jinn to worship him, isn't this sufficient enough for you to understand that he is showing us his Inifinite power?.

The idea that a perfectly benign, omnipotent, omniscient being could have an ego large enough to require worship, let alone create something specifically to do it, is utterly absurd. Should there have been a creator God the creation cannot have been for that purpose.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

A perfect, self-sufficient being does not need worship/human confirmation of its infinite powers, at least by means of human logic...