the difference between islam and christianity ....

Fi_Sabilillah said:
The same can be said to the christians, is there any proof that Jesus was actually crucified?
Click to expand...

Well actually there is. I admit that I am not too sure about how good it is. The Christians claim a lot some of which is clearly faked. But I believe that Jewish records make it clear that Jesus died on the cross. They just deny the whole Ressurection thing.

I have checked and the evidence is not as good as I thought,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshu

But this is not the question. You have your religious tradition. The Christians have their's. I doubt there is a lot of historical evidence to allow a neutral and impartial view either way.
 
HeiGou said:
Well actually there is. I admit that I am not too sure about how good it is. The Christians claim a lot some of which is clearly faked. But I believe that Jewish records make it clear that Jesus died on the cross. They just deny the whole Ressurection thing.

I have checked and the evidence is not as good as I thought,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshu

But this is not the question. You have your religious tradition. The Christians have their's. I doubt there is a lot of historical evidence to allow a neutral and impartial view either way.
Click to expand...


HeiGou Nicola, i would like to clarify something

We don't deny a crucifixion. Someone did get crucified, it says so in the Qur'an even, we just deny it was Jesus PBUH. We believe God put Jesus' likeness onto someone else.

There are several different versions offered by scholars. I will give one of those versions as it will be interesting to see your reaction.

When Jesus PBUH received revelation from God that the Jews are approaching him to take him away and be crucified, he asked the disciples if they were willing to sacrifice themselves for him and take his appearance. One of the disciples volunteered.

Now based on an earlier post regarding Gospel of Barnabus, it says something similar!

So Nicola you were asking if we could provide any independant source to prove he wasn't crucified, well we believe someone with his exact appearance was crucified, so we cant bring forth any other evidence. We just deny his resurrection. Can you prove his resurrection from independant sources
 
What i find to be very silly is the way People compare religons.

my only advice on this matter is,learn your religon well,and practise it as it should be practised.

I know too many muslims that dont even know how to Pray properly yet they go around debating with Christians "your religon is wrong because..." thats when i cut in and say "..hey,when was the last time you prayed?"

Usually shuts them up.

Im not saying the brothers and sisters on this forum dont pray ;D but my advice is still free for the taking,learn your religon well and proper,and if you practise it well and proper,you wont have the time to compare religons.. :)

wa'salaam.
 
SirZubair said:
I know too many muslims that dont even know how to Pray properly yet they go around debating with Christians "your religon is wrong because..." thats when i cut in and say "..hey,when was the last time you prayed?"

Usually shuts them up.

Im not saying the brothers and sisters on this forum dont pray ;D but my advice is still free for the taking,learn your religon well and proper,and if you practise it well and proper,you wont have the time to compare religons.. :)

wa'salaam.
Click to expand...
true say brother "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)." chapter 29

we need enough knowledge n wisom before we can even debate:)
wasalaam
 
This thread is not very helpful. Christianity and Islam are both Semitic religions with few differences. We are like brother under Allah (God).
 
Jesus was not crucified, the image of the jewish guy who told on jesus(pbuh) imitated to that of jesus. It was not Jesus who was crucified but the jewish guy who told on him.
 
nicola,
earlier you quoted something that said you can only connect to god if you go through jesus. why does god need a middleman?
also, if i understand you, you are saying that if a person leads a very saintly life it doesn't count for anything unless he's christian? even if he never heard of christianity?
what if a person has been horrible all their lives and at the end says, "i believe in jesus" - he goes to heaven? then why not lead a sinful life and only worry when you think the end is coming?
 
true say brother "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)." chapter 29

we need enough knowledge n wisom before we can even debate
wasalaam
Click to expand...

true... i don't think we need to compare religion here in this forum. We only have to tell them... the real reason of why we really belief in Islam.
 
Asma1’ in regard to your post on this thread (Post # 104), does what you state equally apply to what I posted on post # 31?

Syilla, in regard to your post #98 concerning drinking wine and condemning those who condemn drinking wine:

Matthew 11:18-20
18For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."
Luke 7:33-35
33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' 35But wisdom is proved right by all her children."

Marge, your question (Post 108) gets discussed a lot, it is a good question. One any logical person should ask.

If you are to be judged, who would make the very best Judge? I say the most complete/perfect judge would be one who has experienced things from both sides of the fence, so to speak.

Now NO man can complain to God/Jesus when that man is judged by saying “But you don’t understand, you never lived as a man”.

As to the last part of your post. (Never mind that you don’t believe God became a man for a moment.)

Jesus taught that there was none born of man before John the Baptist that was greater than John. Yet the least in Heaven was greater than John.

No man is greater than the Least in Heaven. Jesus was 100% man at the same time he was/is 100% God.
Since a portion of the being that was Jesus the man was man, he was most certainly less than the portion of God that remained in Heaven.

Marge1, I know you faith teaches something different, I am not trying to argue with you, just trying to explain Christian teachings.

Moss, your post # 182 was a real eye opener on several levels. The first is that on such an important aspect of the differences between Islam and Christian teachings (Jesus being resurrected or not). That with the claims of being extra-ordinarily preserved, that there would be any dispute between different scholars of Islam. #2 is that I had never seen your explanation before concerning what Islam teaches about Jesus’ life and death. (Part #2 exposed my ignorance.)

So Jesus just asked for a stand in, I must admit that I would have never thought of that. Thanks.

Thanks
Nimrod
 
i would say that the 2 most important things islam and christianity have in common is the fact that they both say theirs is the one true religion. as an outsider i would say if you're a muslim then islam is the truth for you and if you're a christian then christianity is the truth for you.
and the other important thing they share is that they both proselytize.
i don't think any of the other world religions share these 2 things, but i could be wrong.
 
Syilla, in regard to your post #98 concerning drinking wine and condemning those who condemn drinking wine:
Click to expand...

i assume this include drinking other type of alcohol...
 
snakelegs said:
nicola,
earlier you quoted something that said you can only connect to god if you go through jesus. why does god need a middleman?
Click to expand...

the reason for using Jesus has the middleman so to speak....If you take a look through the OT God told the Jews to use blood scarifices for the atonements of their sins. the animals must be pure and unblemished..the blood of that animal paid the price for their sins...to God blood is life..and this sacrifce used to wipe away their sins..for a short times..but also in the OT God tells us he is going to make a new covenent with us..someone who will take away our sins..all our transgressions..this will be everlasting.


Isa 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.


Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth.

Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people?

Isa 53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.

Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isa 53:11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he poured out his soul to death and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors.

This is what Jesus went through for us...his blood was pure because he was sinless...his blood has live...we need need his blood to cover our sins...in the presence of God...

God tells us he turns away from us in our sins...blood is the only payment that will bring us back into communion with him. Jesus was that payment..that is why we need him (has the middle man) his blood when we accept him as our saviour...removes our sins. He took all our sins on to himself..just like it tells us would happen in Isaiah 53. this is the reason why...Jesus shouted on the cross...'Father, Father, why have you forsaken me'...because God turned away from him in him sin..with the amount of sin he took on to himself..for us...God cannot face sin.

Isa 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him; he has put him to grief; when his soul makes an offering for sin

____________________

Isaiah 59:2 "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."
Click to expand...


We can't ever make up for our own sin or suffer enough for what we do, God does not want us t either.. "God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8.


God no longer remembers our sins..when we are covered with the blood of Christ. But repentance must be geniune..

Isaiah 43:25
"I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more." Sins are no longer "kept on file", record is blotted out, destroyed. God cannot "forget" like in human error, but He chooses to "not remember."



------------------


also, if i understand you, you are saying that if a person leads a very saintly life it doesn't count for anything unless he's christian? even if he never heard of christianity?

God is always just....If they haven't heard of Jesus and what he did for us...millions of people throughout history have never had the chance to hear the gospel...but God would know their hearts the pure from the unpure, are they his lost sheep or do they belong to Satan...remember the city of Sodem...God even killed the Children and babies He tells us...they would grow up sinful also and not repent their sins. He knew their hearts their future live they where no different to the adults.

People who have had the chance to hear the gospel..it wouldn't matter how good a person is...He isn't covered by pure unblemished blood, his sins have not been taken away, they will die with those sins..and that will lead them to hell...man alone cannot make it back into commuion with God..Because God requires blood just like in the OT...but this now is an everlasting covenent up until the end of time.

what if a person has been horrible all their lives and at the end says, "i believe in jesus" - he goes to heaven? then why not lead a sinful life and only worry when you think the end is coming?
Click to expand...


Believing is Jesus...or accepting him as the only one who can save you from hell? that is soooo different..lots of people believe in Jesus but will not invite him into their lives to change them. When you ask Jesus into your life..you life becomes very different..everyone would notice the difference...it's like you are a new person..literally...while Christ is in you cannot sin..a person who is ready to die and then asks for Jesus..if he really means his repentance...God alone will know. Not man. If he thinks he'll just try it...kind of just incase..God might be real...or it might be true about Jesus after all....well the question is..is that person geniune..or trying his luck.

hope I've answered your questions clearly enough...:)
 
:sl: here's some proof that jesus was not crucified:
" In 1975, UNESCO distributed texts from the bible that were uncovered in naj' humaadee, in the highlands of egypt; they were actually discovered in the year 1945.
among those texts is the following passage, whcih is mentioned here word for word:
"it was another person who drank the bitterness and vinegar, and not i. and it was another (simon peter) who carried the cross on his shoulders; and it was yet another who placed a crown of thorns upon his head. meanwhile, i was above, laughing at their ignorance."
:w:
 
primitivefuture said:
This thread is not very helpful. Christianity and Islam are both Semitic religions with few differences. We are like brother under Allah (God).
Click to expand...

You think so? I would say that Judaism and Islam are both Semitic religions which are fundamentally very similar in many ways. But that Christianity has had a strong Graeco-Roman influence and so is different from both Judaism and Islam in significant ways. What is it about Christianity that you think is like Islam?
 
marge1 said:
:sl: here's some proof that jesus was not crucified:
" In 1975, UNESCO distributed texts from the bible that were uncovered in naj' humaadee, in the highlands of egypt; they were actually discovered in the year 1945.
among those texts is the following passage, whcih is mentioned here word for word:
"it was another person who drank the bitterness and vinegar, and not i. and it was another (simon peter) who carried the cross on his shoulders; and it was yet another who placed a crown of thorns upon his head. meanwhile, i was above, laughing at their ignorance."
:w:
Click to expand...


Was this the Dead Sea Scrolls?
 
marge1 said:
here's some proof that jesus was not crucified:
" In 1975, UNESCO distributed texts from the bible that were uncovered in naj' humaadee, in the highlands of egypt; they were actually discovered in the year 1945.
Click to expand...

Isn't this a reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls which were found in Jordan?

In which case those documents are Jewish, not Christian.

among those texts is the following passage, whcih is mentioned here word for word:
"it was another person who drank the bitterness and vinegar, and not i. and it was another (simon peter) who carried the cross on his shoulders; and it was yet another who placed a crown of thorns upon his head. meanwhile, i was above, laughing at their ignorance."
Click to expand...

Hmm, may I ask your source for this? I assume you got it off a-Xianity or the like? Don't you think it is odd that Jesus would be in Heaven laughing at the torture and murder of some other human being?
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top