The existence of God

So are we all agnostics to a greater or lesser extend?

Agnosticism (Greek: α- a-, without + γνώσις gnōsis, knowledge; after Gnosticism) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

Indeed my previous statement sounds pretty agnostic:
Well, I am convinced that I follow God in the way he wants me to, I believe I do, I trust that I do ... but I don't know.

Regardless of what others may tell you, I think none of us know!
We won't know until the time of our death ... and then we will all know the whole truth.
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Peace
 
This would be my distinction. The agnostic position is that some things are unknowable. This is regards to clear evidence and facts. OK we got that. I think from some of the replies, we all have some level of doubt.

But you got to take you shot/guess about how things work. A person who calls himself a pure agnostic refuses to do this. Once you do take a guess you are either an atheist or theist, with differing levels of conviction.

There are people (or person) on this board who catagorize themselves as agnostic, but tend to believe there is some kind of god (I forget who it is). Now are we the same position since I'm a weak (agnostic) atheist?

Thanks.
 
Personally, there is 0% doubt in my mind that Allah exists. I just know that he does. It's not something that I can explain and those atheists and agnostics amongst you might think I'm crazy, but I'm really not. I am absolutely 100% sure that Allah exists. I know it!
 
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Gator said:
This would be my distinction. The agnostic position is that some things are unknowable. This is regards to clear evidence and facts. OK we got that. I think from some of the replies, we all have some level of doubt.

But you got to take you shot/guess about how things work. A person who calls himself a pure agnostic refuses to do this. Once you do take a guess you are either an atheist or theist, with differing levels of conviction.

There are people (or person) on this board who catagorize themselves as agnostic, but tend to believe there is some kind of god (I forget who it is). Now are we the same position since I'm a weak (agnostic) atheist?

Thanks.
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Yeah I guess I can agree to you at some point however I wouldn't go to far as to say that an agnostic has no inclination to either side, because that would be practically impossible. So instead I would suggest that small inclinations either way are allowed for agnostics. Problem is then where do you draw the line (like Whatsthepoint just pointed out)?
 
Osman said:
Personally, there is 0% doubt in my mind that Allah exists. I just know that he does. It's not something that I can explain and those atheists and agnostics amongst you might think I'm crazy, but I'm really not. I am absolutely 100% sure that Allah exists. I know it!
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Not even a tinee doubt? It's good to be open to new ideas. Heck, I'm not 100% sure god doesn't exists and definitely open to any evidence that points towards one.
 
Tornado said:
Not even a tinee doubt? It's good to be open to new ideas. Heck, I'm not 100% sure god doesn't exists and definitely open to any evidence that points towards one.
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I guess this depends from one Muslim to another. If you're interested in this, there's a thread about this here. According to the poll; the majority never or sometimes have doubts. I wasn't the majority. I often have doubts. Perhaps it's a matter of semantics. How long does your mind need to entertain a thought before you can call it a "doubt"? Are we talking about a quick thought that gets refuted by your own logic immediately afterwards, or are we talking about something you don't have an answer to and is pushed in the back of your mind and comes out to say hi every once in a while.
 
Tornado said:
Not even a tinee doubt? It's good to be open to new ideas. Heck, I'm not 100% sure god doesn't exists and definitely open to any evidence that points towards one.
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I tend to agree with you.

I cannot imagine that anybody who actively engages with his faith, who reads, ponders and discusses spiritual/religious/theological matters, does not have at least times of questioning and doubt.

I think questioning is a very healthy thing ... can following a religion blindly without a conscious and informed decision be a good thing, I wonder? :?

People who claim to never have doubts or questions tend to make me a little suspicious ... either that or they are just more godly and saintly than me! :mmokay:
 
Tornado said:
Not even a tinee doubt? It's good to be open to new ideas. Heck, I'm not 100% sure god doesn't exists and definitely open to any evidence that points towards one.
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There are times when I briefly do have doubts but that is very rare. The vast majority of the time I am completely sure that he exists and the idea of him not existing just does not even enter my mind at all. I really don't know how to explain the fact that it is more than just a belief for me. It is sure knowledge. Quite clearly, atheists and agnostics do not have this experience.

Btw, be assured that I am absolutely 100% open to new ideas. :)
 
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Osman said:
Quite clearly, atheists and agnostics do not have this experience.
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Actually, I have had this experience. I definitely once believed that a personal god existed and didn't doubt its existence.
 
Greetings Tornado,

Tornado said:
Actually, I have had this experience. I definitely once believed that a personal god existed and didn't doubt its existence.
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Interesting. No doubt at all? Was it as though you knew he existed?
 
Osman said:
Greetings Tornado,



Interesting. No doubt at all? Was it as though you knew he existed?
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I didn't have a doubt in that I knew he existed but when I had questions, I just concluded that he was different or weird. The only doubt I had was what was god's first memory since I couldn't imagine something going back for eternity. Though as an atheist, that question turns to why is there something rather than nothing since it's kinda the same thing.
 
Bassam Zawadi said:
listen to my lecture on atheism over here http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/multimedia
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Looked at most of the slideshow and listened to 5 minutes of the Atheism and Materialism recording and I've lost count of the number of points I wanted to make.

First things first I suppose, the definition of atheism.
The prefix 'a' (or 'an') is from the Greek meaning 'absence of', therefore atheism can be defined as the absence of a theistic belief, though it has come to also mean the rejection of theistic belief.

agnosticism:
Thomas Huxley invented the term and said the following about it:
"it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism."

In my opinion, if someone were to assert "we cannot possibly know whether God exists or not", they would cease to be an agnostic because this is a belief not founded in logic or evidence. This is unless the definition of God included in his attributes the state of being unknowable in which case the agnostic would just be stating the obvious.

--
In your recording you say that science cannot go beyond the natural world, but you are making the assumption and claim that such a thing as the supernatural world exists. Where is the evidence that it does?
Quoting the Quran to prove the Quran isn't going to help.
 
Hello Azy.

The brother mentioned in another lecture that it's not valid to use one book and using merely quotes from the same book to proove it. And he didn't use that method, rather he used proofs which are present in the Qur'an. So, he didn't use the ayats such as: "This a book revelead from Allah" but he used logical arguments present in the Qur'an.

Where is the evidence that it does?
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Listen to the lecture please. You listened only to the first five minutes, the brother did mention a lot of points refuting atheism.
 
Azy said:
In my opinion, if someone were to assert "we cannot possibly know whether God exists or not", they would cease to be an agnostic because this is a belief not founded in logic or evidence.
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Whatever Huxley may or may not have in mind the belief in quotes pretty much currently defines an agnostic, at least as that word is used today. Strictly speaking agnosticism is the "doctrine that only material things can be known, and hence knowledge of God, or for that matter anything supernatural, is impossible". There is no requirement that I am aware of for "logic or evidence"; indeed the doctine denies relevant logic or evidence is possible.
 
Trumble said:
Whatever Huxley may or may not have in mind the belief in quotes pretty much currently defines an agnostic, at least as that word is used today. Strictly speaking agnosticism is the "doctrine that only material things can be known, and hence knowledge of God, or for that matter anything supernatural, is impossible". There is no requirement that I am aware of for "logic or evidence"; indeed the doctine denies relevant logic or evidence is possible.
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How does one know things without logic or evidence in a natural world?

I thought I'd covered the unknowable thing with the line after the one you quoted. If God is defined as unknowable then yes it makes perfect sense for one to claim that God is unknowable, but it doesn't really say anything about the person making the claim. You could believe that God is supernatural and unknowable and be a theist by belief.

Abdu-l-Majeed: I'll listen to it all, but it's no good making up definitions and then breaking them down. Of course the denial that there is the possibility of a God is just as flimsy as belief in a God when it comes down to evidence. The only thing you should take from that is that both are equally as pointless.
 

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