The "hiding among civilians" myth

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Then just wait for the next attack? They traided before and look what happened. When you pay kidnappers you can be sure of one thing, there will be more kidnappings.
I thought at something like that:
The israeli government should have informed the lebanese government about the kidnapped soldiers. Like : Lebanese its an independent country with his borders, i respect your sovereignty but you please look after my two soldiers kidnapped by your beloved party members. The lebanese government could contact the party and begin to talk with them or take any measure with them because they are lebanese people.Its a national issue.no? After me at this hour even the integrity of this country its under question.
 
Israel was around 6 km inside Lebanese territory when this took place
Depends on where you draw the line.
Hezbollah rarely attacks
Which means that they do attack.
they have always defended their people
They defend them by firing amongst there homes
They warned Israel for months prior to the events on july 12th
So it is OK to kidnap as long as you give prior warning?
wouldn't be more kidnappings if Israel didn't have what was rightfully theirs.
You seam to forget what Hezbollah primary objective is.

[MAD]Stop the hate![/MAD]
 
The Israeli government should have informed the Lebanese government about the kidnapped soldiers.
But the Lebanese government doesn’t have any control over Hezbollah. Hezbollah’s military is stronger than that of the government.

I have total empathy for the Lebanese people and no love for Israel. But I just don’t see what real chooses the Israeli people have. I only see two options. Seven million people pickup and scatter around the world or fight. Obviously they have chosen the later.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
 
But the Lebanese government doesn’t have any control over Hezbollah. Hezbollah’s military is stronger than that of the government.

I have total empathy for the Lebanese people and no love for Israel. But I just don’t see what real chooses the Israeli people have. I only see two options. Seven million people pickup and scatter around the world or fight. Obviously they have chosen the later.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
If the israeli army was beyond the lebanese borders (now i heard this for the very first time) i don't think they were threatened. Why they entered in Lebanon?The tv never mentioned that. I knew only about the borders soldiers being kidnapped.


How don't they have control? Every citizen must obey to the same laws.
 
If the israeli army was beyond the lebanese borders (now i heard this for the very first time) i don't think they were threatened. Why they entered in Lebanon?The tv never mentioned that. I knew only about the borders soldiers being kidnapped.


How don't they have control? Every citizen must obey to the same laws.
You just heard it for the first time because it is just the latest in the propganda war. It is real easy. Just draw the border line where it was 6 years ago. So you see, they didn't enter Lebanon. That is why it wasn't on TV. Most new reports try to be honest.

How don't they have control? Lebanon has been trying to get back on its feet for some time. It just isn't strong enouth. The complexaty of that issue is beyond my knowledge.
 
Which hostages does Israel hold? I believe there are precisely two Lebanese citizens in Israeli jails. You mean them?

Exactly, 2 for 2. Actually, Hezbollah originally wanted to negociate fot the realease of the 8,000 + innocent palestinians they keep in their jails also.

Kidman
 
WILBERHUM, HEIGOU, GERINIMO, LAVIKOR


Where were they when they got captured? inside Lebanese territories.

The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them. The forces were trying to keep the soldiers' captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity
http://www.forbes.com/technology/fee...ap2873051.html


The Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah movement announced on Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon. "Implementing our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails, our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon," a statement by Hezbollah said. "The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe place," it added. The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they "infiltrated" into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border. [Hindustan Times 7/12/06] http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/1...6,00050004.htm

The Lebanese Hezbollah movement announced Wednesday the arrest of two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon. Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were arrested as they entered the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border. Israeli aircraft were active in the air over southern Lebanon, police said, with jets bombing roads leading to the market town of Nabatiyeh, 60 kilometers south of Beirut Bahrain News Agency http://english.bna.bh/?ID=47348

TRANSLATION: According to the Lebanese police force, the two soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aïta Al-Chaab close to the border, whereas Israeli television indicated that they had been captured in Israeli territory. [fr.news.yahoo 7/12/06] http://fr.news.yahoo.com/12072006/20...tres-tues.html

According to the Lebanese police force, the two Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aïta Al-Chaab, near to the border with Israel, where an Israeli unit had penetrated in middle of morning. [AFP 7/12/06]

The militant group Hezbollah said it captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes across the border in southern Lebanon on Wednesday. [chinabroadcast 7/12/06] http://en.chinabroadcast.cn/2947/[email protected]

In the afternoon, the scene changed in the streets of southern Lebanon, which was the target of 32 Israeli raids that mainly targeted areas near the area where the two soldiers were captured in Aita al Chaab, close to the border with Israel. [news.monstersandcritics.com 7/12/06] http://news.monstersandcritics.com/m...ing_so ldiers

It all started on July 12 when Israel troops were ambushed on Lebanon's side of the border with Israel. Hezbollah, which commands the Lebanese south, immediately seized on their crossing. They arrested two Israeli soldiers, killed eight Israelis and wounded over 20 in attacks inside Israeli territory. [Asia Times 7/15/06] http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HG15Ak02.html

TRANSLATION: Hezbollah has made it clear time and again that it would retaliate by capturing and detaining Israeli soldiers if they entered Lebanon and use them in an exchange of prisoners. Israel has in a deliberate manner sent a commando into Lebanon (Aïta Al Chaab) They came under attack from Hezbollah, who captured two of their soldiers. [voltairenet.org 7/18/06] http://www.voltairenet.org/article142056.html

Only weeks ago, an entire reserve division was drafted in order to train for an operation such as the one the IDF is planning in response to Wednesday morning's Hizbullah attacks on IDF forces along the northern border. [JPost 7/12/06] http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ticle/ShowFull

Israel's military response by air, land and sea to what it considered a provocation last week by Hezbollah militants is unfolding according to a plan finalized more than a year ago.

In the years since Israel ended its military occupation of southern Lebanon, it watched warily as Hezbollah built up its military presence in the region. When Hezbollah militants kidnapped two Israeli soldiers last week, the Israeli military was ready to react almost instantly. [SFGate 7/21/06] http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...type=printable

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/07/169834.php
 
Depends on where you draw the line.

They defend them by firing amongst there homes

what other targets do they have??? When Israel is flying overhead and dropping bombs, their only way to retaliate is to shoot their missles into Israel. At least they do it during certain times, which give Israeli's knowledge about when the rockets will come pouring in so they can safely hide in their underground bunkers.

That's why Hezbollah hasn't attacked Tel Aviv yet, they don't have these bunkers for their civilians... But if Israel forces them to, i donno.

So it is OK to kidnap as long as you give prior warning?

Say i kidnapped your sister. You will have by all means every right to come over and kick my ass and get your sister back... But instead you call me and tell me and give me that warning. Be glad that Hezbollah even gave the warning and gave Israel the chance to get away with their crime w/out having to resort to the measures at hand.

You seam to forget what Hezbollah primary objective is.

[MAD]Stop the hate![/MAD]

To Defend Lebanon against Israeli attacks and against an Israeli invasion. That is why they were created, and that is their primary objective. Anything wrong with that?

Kidman
 
Exactly, 2 for 2. Actually, Hezbollah originally wanted to negociate fot the realease of the 8,000 + innocent palestinians they keep in their jails also.

Kidman
But you said:
Maybe give back the hostages of the lebanese civilians they have...
And surly every one of the 8,000 + palestinians are innocent. Da
The last exchange didn't stop this kidnapping. If they would have exchanged this time, it would not have stoped the next one. Meeting kidnapper's demands will ensure only one thing. There will be another kidnapping.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
 
And surly every one of the 8,000 + palestinians are innocent. Da
The last exchange didn't stop this kidnapping. If they would have exchanged this time, it would not have stoped the next one.

out of the 8,000.. there are over 400 underage children as well.

Meeting kidnapper's demands will ensure only one thing. There will be another kidnapping.

You know what, i totally agree with you.. then tell Israel to stop kidnapping innocent lebanese civilians, and we wont have a problem :)
You say it as if Hezbollah is the one at fault... when they only respond out of retaliation to Israel.

Kidman
 
You say it as if Hezbollah is the one at fault...
Then what do you think I meant when I said:
I have total empathy for the Lebanese people and no love for Israel.
Well let me make it clear, Israel is guilty of many atrocities. The list is long and horrifying. It is almost as long and horrifying as what has been done to them.
My point is what choice they have. When the enemies on both sides have a stated primary objective of destroying them? So I say again:
I only see two options. Seven million people pickup and scatter around the world or fight.

There are no “Good Guys” in this fight.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
 
point is what choice they have. When the enemies on both sides have a stated primary objective of destroying them? So I say again:

I only see two options. Seven million people pickup and scatter around the world or fight.

Wilberhum. What an amazing post.

There is a lot of wisdom in those words
 
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lavikor201
Thanks. I try.

All: (From a man who has “No Dog in this Hunt”)

The problem is if you take 1 step back it time it is easy to see who is at fault. But then if you take 2 steps back, it changes, take 3 steps back and it changes again. So how many steps do you want to go back? Want to go back about 60 years? Then what would that salve today?

We can argue all day about who through the last stone, who through the first stone, who through the most stones, or who through the biggest stone. It all really doesn’t matter. Everyone needs to stop throwing stones.

If that doesn’t happen, my great grand children are going to be reading about this conflict in the “World News” section of the news paper. What we need is for them to only be able to read about this in the History books.

Total justice can never be achieved and 7 million people are not going to pack up and leave. We just need to do the best we can. Everyone needs to leave Israel alone and Israel needs to get out of the occupied terrorizes. But Israel can’t leave the occupied territories if they are going to become bases to terrorize Israel. So everyone needs to leave Israel alone.
It gets kind of circular, doesn’t it?

I’m convinced that Israel should never have been created, but it was. Pakistan should have never been created, but it was.
We don’t get to rewrite history, but we do have to live with it.

So let’s quit trying to right yesterday’s wrongs and create a better future.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
 
Way of Life: Undisclosed
U.N.- Hezbollah Are Cowards, To Blame For Civilian Deaths - 1 Week Ago

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MIDEAST_FIGHTING_AID?SITE=ALMON&SECTION=HOME&TEMPL ATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-24-18-23-02


Jul 24, 6:23 PM EDT

U.N. Exec Blames Hezbollah for Deaths

By LAUREN FRAYER
Associated Press Writer

BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) -- The U.N. humanitarian chief accused Hezbollah on Monday of "cowardly blending" in among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with Israel.

The militant group has built bunkers and tunnels near the Israeli border to shelter weapons and fighters, and its members easily blend in among civilians.

Jan Egeland spoke to reporters at Larnaca airport in Cyprus late Monday after visiting Lebanon to coordinate an international aid effort. On Sunday, he toured the rubble of Beirut's southern suburbs, a once-teeming Shiite district where Hezbollah had its headquarters.

During that visit, he condemned the killing and wounding of civilians by both sides and called Israel's offensive "disproportionate" and "a violation of international humanitarian law."


On Monday, he had strong words for Hezbollah, which crossed into Israel, captured two soldiers and killed eight others on July 12, triggering fierce fighting.

"Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," he said. "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men."

"We need a cessation of hostilities because this is a war where civilians are paying the price," said Egeland, who was heading to Israel next.

At least 600,000 Lebanese have fled their homes, according to the World Health Organization. One estimate by Lebanon's finance minister putting the number at 750,000, nearly 20 percent of the population.


During his visit to Lebanon earlier Monday, Egeland issued an emergency appeal for $150 million to help Lebanon through the next three months. He told reporters in Beirut the money was needed to pay for food, health care, water and sanitation.

"Approximately 500,000 to 800,000 people have been affected by the conflict, of whom some have become displaced persons or refugees," a U.N. statement said.

The United Nations has contracted 100 trucks to deliver aid coming into Beirut around the country. Egeland said the U.N. hoped to send its first land convoy to Tyre on Wednesday. Similar convoys will be scheduled every second day after that. An international Red Cross convoy was expected in the city Monday.

Egeland said he was asking Israel for safe passage for aid ships to enter the northern port of Tripoli and the southern port of Tyre, which has been heavily bombarded. So far, Israel has loosened its sea blockade of Lebanon only to let ships in Beirut port.

"We're hopeful that in the course of this week, you'll see real progress on the ground. Lebanon has a right to be frustrated," he said.

He said the U.N. was also asking Israel to also guarantee safe passage throughout Lebanon.

Hundreds of thousands of refugees have flowed out of mainly Shiite regions - the south, the Bekaa and the crowded Shiite neighborhood of Beirut - crowding into cities including the southern port of Sidon, the remainder of Beirut and parts of the north and central mountains.

"We are particularly worried about the population in south Lebanon and the (eastern) Bekaa Valley. It's here that they're in the crossfire and from where they're being displaced," Egeland said.

Continued Israeli bombardment makes the aid mission risky.

"Only cessation of hostilities can make it safe for us and our humanitarian colleagues," Egeland said.

© 2006 The Associated Press.
 
lavikor201
I’m convinced that Israel should never have been created, but it was. So let’s quit trying to right yesterday’s wrongs and create a better future.

[MAD]Stop the Hate![/MAD]
Israel didn't learn in this years to live there. And they are going from one mistakes to another. When the Palestine got back some of his land and were held elections the first reaction of israel government was to ask for banning the world help towards them. I heard even the palestinians moneys kept in israeli bank were closed from used.
When they will learn to treat well the neighbours i think they actually will can live there. The better future can't be build on power, arogance and sending the army beyond other countries borders.
 
Wilberhum "There are no “Good Guys” in this fight".

Stop the Hate!



I agree.

Thanks
Nimrod
 
The are hiding in the mountains mainly... and other places :)

While you need thousands of words th give your point of view, I need a few lines:
Hezbollah are terrorits and have to be taken out. And yes, they hide behind civilians. It has no longer to be prooven, it is a fact, pictures have been provided as well as videos few threads ago !

Lebanon need peace as well as Israel, and I'm pretty sure, both sides also want it. BUt as long as Hezbollah is messing up this peace, it will go on !
 
Exactly, 2 for 2. Actually, Hezbollah originally wanted to negociate fot the realease of the 8,000 + innocent palestinians they keep in their jails also.

What are those two Lebanese men's names? And why are they in prison?

I am sure they would prefer to have 8000 Palestinians released, but what makes you think they are innocent?
 
Oh yes, the hearing of the death of two souls that G-d put on this earth is great news...

I don't want to rattle you Lavikor, because we went rounds once before already... but there are a hell of alot more than two souls at stake here. And every one of them is precious.

Ninth Scribe
 
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