The "hiding among civilians" myth

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but that would prove the fact Israel doesn't care about them either and they want something else.

They want a new beginning... that's all. They might have had that too, without all this fuss, but they were called a name they took offense to... kafir. It made them feel they had no place in their own family. So here we go again with the damn walls!

To complicate matters even more, one of the Israelites (the real ones) set a curse upon his tribe's land and sealed it with his own blood - something to the effect of: If this land is taken by the spilling of my blood, then my blood shall seal it. In short, anyone who dwells there is cursed so the spilling of blood for the sake of the land will become all they ever know. Well, that's what Azrael tells me.

Sigh....

Ninth Scribe
 
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I’m convinced that Israel should never have been created, but it was. Pakistan should have never been created, but it was.
We don’t get to rewrite history, but we do have to live with it.

So let’s quit trying to right yesterday’s wrongs and create a better future.

Nice words, but I disagree. I think the collapse of the Council of the Princes and Elders is what led to all this madness. All of the complaints are legitimate... none have ever been heard or resolved by agreement. There is no common ground between them to even make agreements.

I know I have a strange take on the problem, but these 'separate' tribes all belong to one family. Anyone with kids knows how rediculous things can get in a family, all the constant fighting and the endless squabbling... it's exhausting! I had one son I could have sworn was going to be the finish of me!!! Multiply that family to their families, and the generations thereof, and it can be... well, mind-blowing! I had to ask, where are these kids parents? I'm calling them all out of their hiding and then we're going to go over every damn one of these issues until there are none left! Maybe if we get through all of that people will think twice about making accusations again - because defending those accusations can cost you your entire lifetime!

When there was a council, it stood for PEACE - people had a place to bring their various arguments and disputes to, and this is how it worked:

Excerpt from my Book of Records - What Is Peace?:

Peace is holding your breath (very uncomfortable) and biting your tongue (also uncomfortable) until all the facts are in. Accusations can be made without harming Peace, but the person making the accusation has a duty to submit to the ensuing dialogue with their accused until BOTH parties agree completely (this can, and often does, take lifetimes to accomplish).

When either party (Accuser or Accused) breaks off the dialogue, Peace is shattered. More often than not, both parties seek agreement elsewhere, with others who were not involved in the original dispute. When enough Numb3rs are gathered, another argument begins... but the object isn't to engage until both sides are satisfied. The object at this point is destruction of the entire argument by destroying it's source (which can't actually be done).

Basically, to maintain Peace, you have to work for it, which means any conflicts made, have to be resolved, so if (for example) a father and son argue, they should be locked in a room together and not allowed out until one or the other submits. Resolving arguments, as we know, are physically, emotionally and spiritually exhausting! That, I feel, is why people don't resolve them. It's far easier to walk out and slam the door behind you, infect everyone who you come into contact with, and spread the disease like a plague.


The Council of the Princes and Elders was a way to safe-guard the people and allow disputes to be resolved, without humiliation. The issues were addressed in private and given dignity, and they were contained in a working frame, so they didn't spill out onto the streets and involve everyone! The results were then recorded and made official. That was Jerusalem!

The majority of the disputes today should be limited to the scholars, it's their responsibility to resolve the various interpretations of Shariah, but they're not doing that. I've collected quite a number of these disputes myself, but I have no place to bring them to be heard, and the scholars responsible for the opposing views won't agree to Assemble! I want a hearing on the issue of Azrael being called an Angel of Death. Thus far, I have seven parties who agree, two parties who don't and a thousand other parties who would prefer to govern their forum by answering lame questions about what constitutes legal sex.. over and over again! I could take on the scholars of the Taliban, who feel education should not be allowed... and, man, that would be a priviledge! But again, no Council... and no takers on the subject. I suppose, the young souls have an excuse. They don't remember how it was done... old school. But scholars are not young souls. And they're old enough to know better.

I suppose it would seem like a good idea to cut from the past and just start new, but if you do that, you have to be willing to abandon things like tradition which no one wants to do... and it shouldn't have to come down to that.

Ninth Scribe
 
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Your 1 person that disagrees with the whole population of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Hahaha...
Never met a Hindu that disagreed with me. And I know a lot. I lived/worked in Delhi for a while.
Of course I did not talk to the thousands that died in the mass migrations and violance that souranded it.
 
While you need thousands of words th give your point of view, I need a few lines:
Hezbollah are terrorits and have to be taken out. And yes, they hide behind civilians. It has no longer to be prooven, it is a fact, pictures have been provided as well as videos few threads ago !

Lebanon need peace as well as Israel, and I'm pretty sure, both sides also want it. BUt as long as Hezbollah is messing up this peace, it will go on !

Ok.. prove it then with these facts: Why out of all the civilians murdered by Israel, did they not find a single Hezbollah fighter amongst them?????????????????????????????????????????????????

hmmm... something to think about. You can make up those pictures anywhere, doesn't prove anything. Hezbollah has been planning this for years, and have underground tunnels that they travel in and know when and where to strike the Israeli forces. May God with be with them,

Kidman
 
Ok.. prove it then with these facts: Why out of all the civilians murdered by Israel, did they not find a single Hezbollah fighter amongst them?????????????????????????????????????????????????

hmmm... something to think about.
Yes, and only a little thought is needed, no? Not hard to think it through.
What does a hezbollah fighter look like? Do they have a big "H" tatooed to their foreheads? No. They wear civilian clothing. They want to blend in. They are cowards.
Think it through.
 
Yes, and only a little thought is needed, no? Not hard to think it through.
What does a hezbollah fighter look like? Do they have a big "H" tatooed to their foreheads? No. They wear civilian clothing. They want to blend in. They are cowards.
Think it through.

Ok buddy... that's like going to a university, and wanting to kill only the teachers. You don't know who's a teacher or who's not a teacher so you just start killing everyone, even the young kids cause (they might be a teacher in disguise).

You sicken me with the way you view things. It's not that they "want to blend in." What do you want them to do? Come out of their holes, the few 2,000-4,000 of them and just get annaliated?

What i'm trying to prove is that they don't hide among civlians, they are not allowed to do that. So if Israel wants to "rid of them" then they have to come into Lebanon and find them, then kill them. Not bomb every hospital, school, residential area hoping that there was a hezbollah member amongst them.

Hezbollah has been in the planning of this for a long time now... they have their places to hide, they don't need to hide with civlians.

Do you get the point now?? Cowards, sounds like Israel are the only cowards here, if they want Hezbollah then come get them, don't use your bombs from high above to take out innocent civilians. How pathetic.

Kidman
 
You sicken me with the way you view things. Kidman
And you sicken me with the way you view things and defend cowardly terrorists.

What i'm trying to prove is that they don't hide among civlians, they are not allowed to do that.
Not allowed? By whom? So why do they continue to do so if they are not allowed?

Hezbollah has been in the planning of this for a long time now... they have their places to hide, they don't need to hide with civlians.
Yes they do, in residential high rises, private homes, neighborhood streets....

Do you get the point now?? Cowards, sounds like Israel are the only cowards here, if they want Hezbollah then come get them, don't use your bombs from high above to take out innocent civilians. How pathetic.

Kidman
Israel uses both air strikes and ground troops. Why would they not use the advantage they have? That would be foolish. Are you trying to say that if Hezbollah had an airforce they wouldn't do the same? Don't be foolish, of course they would. Hezbollah are no doubt cowards. Hiding in areas that they know will maximize civilian casualties to maximize the propaganda war against Israel. Pathetic.
 
Israelis are the cowards running away from the battlefield.


Hizbollah are brave warriors, all muslims see this, and inshallah it will inspire the umma to a near victory,
 
And you sicken me with the way you view things and defend cowardly terrorists.

Ok.. you keep calling them that, when most of the world believes they are "Not Terrorists."


Not allowed? By whom? So why do they continue to do so if they are not allowed?

They don't, that's why in all the civilian killings you do not find Hezbollah fighters there. And not allowed by Hezbollah law. They are not allowed to mingle with civilians, unless they are ordered to go help them, in which they are not in fighting and do not take arms.

Yes they do, in residential high rises, private homes, neighborhood streets....
ha, you have no proof, cause there isn't any, just the propaganda any U.S or Israeli News source can give. Maybe the private homes, but away from civilians.

Israel uses both air strikes and ground troops. Why would they not use the advantage they have? That would be foolish. Are you trying to say that if Hezbollah had an airforce they wouldn't do the same? Don't be foolish, of course they would. Hezbollah are no doubt cowards. Hiding in areas that they know will maximize civilian casualties to maximize the propaganda war against Israel. Pathetic.

Ok, that would be fine if they were using their advantage to actually kill Hezbollah, not civilians!!! If Hezbollah had an airforce, they would never be like Israel and aim at Civilians.. they would aim at Israeli militia only. But of course, you believe that they are terrorists and will disagree. Only evidence i can show is the amount of civilians to soldiers that were killed in these battles, and the amount of rockets Hezbollah shot to the amount of killings that happened. Theres your proof, study the numbers.

You know you do not have a strong arguement, and basing your fact off your own judgements... then using words to try to tick me off or something, not working because i know what's really going on.

May Allah give the Hezbollah strength in their struggle against the heartless Israeli's.

Kidman
 
Way of Life: Undisclosed
U.N.- Hezbollah Are Cowards, To Blame For Civilian Deaths - 1 Week Ago

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MIDEAST_FIGHTING_AID?SITE=ALMON&SECTION=HOME&TEMPL ATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-24-18-23-02


Jul 24, 6:23 PM EDT

U.N. Exec Blames Hezbollah for Deaths

By LAUREN FRAYER
Associated Press Writer

BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) -- The U.N. humanitarian chief accused Hezbollah on Monday of "cowardly blending" in among Lebanese civilians and causing the deaths of hundreds during two weeks of cross-border violence with Israel.

The militant group has built bunkers and tunnels near the Israeli border to shelter weapons and fighters, and its members easily blend in among civilians.

Jan Egeland spoke to reporters at Larnaca airport in Cyprus late Monday after visiting Lebanon to coordinate an international aid effort. On Sunday, he toured the rubble of Beirut's southern suburbs, a once-teeming Shiite district where Hezbollah had its headquarters.

During that visit, he condemned the killing and wounding of civilians by both sides and called Israel's offensive "disproportionate" and "a violation of international humanitarian law."


On Monday, he had strong words for Hezbollah, which crossed into Israel, captured two soldiers and killed eight others on July 12, triggering fierce fighting.

"Consistently, from the Hezbollah heartland, my message was that Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending ... among women and children," he said. "I heard they were proud because they lost very few fighters and that it was the civilians bearing the brunt of this. I don't think anyone should be proud of having many more children and women dead than armed men."

"We need a cessation of hostilities because this is a war where civilians are paying the price," said Egeland, who was heading to Israel next.

At least 600,000 Lebanese have fled their homes, according to the World Health Organization. One estimate by Lebanon's finance minister putting the number at 750,000, nearly 20 percent of the population.


During his visit to Lebanon earlier Monday, Egeland issued an emergency appeal for $150 million to help Lebanon through the next three months. He told reporters in Beirut the money was needed to pay for food, health care, water and sanitation.

"Approximately 500,000 to 800,000 people have been affected by the conflict, of whom some have become displaced persons or refugees," a U.N. statement said.

The United Nations has contracted 100 trucks to deliver aid coming into Beirut around the country. Egeland said the U.N. hoped to send its first land convoy to Tyre on Wednesday. Similar convoys will be scheduled every second day after that. An international Red Cross convoy was expected in the city Monday.

Egeland said he was asking Israel for safe passage for aid ships to enter the northern port of Tripoli and the southern port of Tyre, which has been heavily bombarded. So far, Israel has loosened its sea blockade of Lebanon only to let ships in Beirut port.

"We're hopeful that in the course of this week, you'll see real progress on the ground. Lebanon has a right to be frustrated," he said.

He said the U.N. was also asking Israel to also guarantee safe passage throughout Lebanon.

Hundreds of thousands of refugees have flowed out of mainly Shiite regions - the south, the Bekaa and the crowded Shiite neighborhood of Beirut - crowding into cities including the southern port of Sidon, the remainder of Beirut and parts of the north and central mountains.

"We are particularly worried about the population in south Lebanon and the (eastern) Bekaa Valley. It's here that they're in the crossfire and from where they're being displaced," Egeland said.

Continued Israeli bombardment makes the aid mission risky.

"Only cessation of hostilities can make it safe for us and our humanitarian colleagues," Egeland said.

© 2006 The Associated Press.




Seems Jan thinks Hezbollah are cowards, too. Any questions ?
 
ha, you have no proof

You know you do not have a strong arguement, and basing your fact off your own judgements.
This is really no different from your own arguements. I admit I have offered nothing as proof, but then, neither have you.


then using words to try to tick me off or something, not working because i know what's really going on.
Oh-oh. You know about the mass conspiracy and hidden agenda to first tick off internet kids in a forum, and then move to world domination and the abolishment of all organized religions in the world today!? Damn!? How did you find out?! Did I slip up somewhere?
 
Enough proof for me !

I'm glad you are ignorant enough to be proved by such little evidence. So, was "Jan" there when Israeli's blew up the U.N headquaters??? When they targetted them for 6 hours with bombs, while the U.N was on the phone with them telling them to please let them go? Where 6 U.N members were killed by the Israeli attacks??????

Lol... "enough proof for me" haha, Actually, you can find more articles like that also... doesn't prove anything, unless your ignorant... Why don't you go to Lebanon and find out for yourself, go to the residential areas, and out of the million people you do find, let me know how many of them were Hezbollah soldiers. Fact is, that you will not find them.

Kidman
 
This is really no different from your own arguements. I admit I have offered nothing as proof, but then, neither have you.

I agree... I can show you articles of people saying that there were no Hezbollah among all the civilian area's that were destroyed, and you can show me articles of Israel saying that they have killed 300 Hezbollah fighters among the 900 + civilians they killed. So, we can keep arguing, and you keep calling Hezbollah cowards, and I keep calling the Israeli cowards, and it wont go farther then that. Lets see what develops in the coming days instead of bickering pointless back and forth.

Oh-oh. You know about the mass conspiracy and hidden agenda to first tick off internet kids in a forum, and then move to world domination and the abolishment of all organized religions in the world today!? Damn!? How did you find out?! Did I slip up somewhere?

haha... good one.

Kidman
 
I'm glad you are ignorant enough to be proved by such little evidence. So, was "Jan" there when Israeli's blew up the U.N headquaters??? When they targetted them for 6 hours with bombs, while the U.N was on the phone with them telling them to please let them go? Where 6 U.N members were killed by the Israeli attacks??????

Lol... "enough proof for me" haha, Actually, you can find more articles like that also... doesn't prove anything, unless your ignorant... Why don't you go to Lebanon and find out for yourself, go to the residential areas, and out of the million people you do find, let me know how many of them were Hezbollah soldiers. Fact is, that you will not find them.

Kidman



The fact that Israel shelled a U.N. post has nothing to do with the U.N. saying Hezbollah are cowards, which they are, for hiding amongst civilians. Try to keep up, genius. And I don't need to go to any hole like Lebanon, for any reason. I can afford to go to nicer places.
 
Israelis are the cowards running away from the battlefield.

Hizbollah are brave warriors, all muslims see this, and inshallah it will inspire the umma to a near victory,

Some times I worry because of what I see happening.

The Mujahedeen in Iraq fight on their own, backed only in secret... but nothing up-front to demonstrate they are loved and provided for.

Hezbollah are fighting on their own, backed only in secret... but nothing up-front to show they are loved and provided for.

Why is this? Why are these fighters being left to battle on their own? I mean, don't get me wrong. I was touched by the news that the Arab League banded together to contest the portions of the draft resolution that they felt left Lebanon vulnerable, but they're not really there where Labanon needs them. Not one Arab country offered to send troops to support Hezbollah or Lebanon. Why?

Israel could snap it's fingers and presto - a flock of countries will offer to send in "peace-keeping" troops to help the situation.

This is just one of the many things I question. The Muslims are losing countries and land one after the other... because one Muslim country doesn't actually care about what happens to another Muslim country (except in secret). The U.S. (and allies) are splitting the armies up and luring them into different battles so they spend all their weapons caches before any unified front can be established. By the time Al Shami realizes these aren't different wars and they have to unite, there won't be enough fighters or weapons left to do the job.

In short, bravery and stupidity are not a good mix. Doesn't anyone there play chess?

Ninth Scribe
 
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The fact that Israel shelled a U.N. post has nothing to do with the U.N. saying Hezbollah are cowards, which they are, for hiding amongst civilians. Try to keep up, genius.


Ya, i bet she wasn't there when the real cowards were bombing the place... just like you have never been there or heard about what's going on first hand from a person that was there. When interviewing "those" U.N members that were actually there during this attack, you can say that they wouldn't agree with lil Jan over there. So ok... you found one U.N person to say that she thinks Hezbollah are cowards, and because of that "it is proven that Hezbollah are officially cowards" ...lol... thats the most ignorant thing anyone has ever posted on this whole forumn.

When Bush said there are WMD's in Iraq, and Saddam is affiliated with Osama Bin Laden, did you say "oh, Bush said it, so that's enough proof for me"?? lol...

And I don't need to go to any hole like Lebanon, for any reason. I can afford to go to nicer places.

Good for you, but don't talk until you have been there yourself or really know what's going on.

Kidman
 
Ok.. prove it then with these facts: Why out of all the civilians murdered by Israel, did they not find a single Hezbollah fighter amongst them?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Kidman

An excellent point, but Hezbollah have interfered in my work to restore the northern kingdom of Israel to Palestine. So has Hamas. It seems a shame since we were both working for the interest of the Palestinian people, only my choice of weapon wouldn't have shed any blood... just brain cells.

Ninth Scribe
 
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ok, you can post 5 pictures where there are supposedly Hezbollah surrounded by civilians? Please dont post the ones where they are helping the families in the east, that is not hiding...

Also, i can post hundreds of pictures where you will not see one civilian in sight, but what will that do?

You can believe what you want... Hezbollah, the ones trying to protect the Lebanese people from the Israeli attacks are hiding behind them... ya, sounds right no?

Kidman

Ok, so please post some here of these pictures ! I want to see !
Many pictures have been posted to proove, Hezbollah use cilivians as shields, but I didn't see ONLY ONE single picture, where Hezbollah doesn't do it !
 

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