The Law of God.

Salam.

yes..its seems ur right..

but Law and Punishment are one.

in the OT and the Quran, Jews and Muslim are obligated to enforced that Law&punishment,
No method are given too dismis this Laws&punishment.

so to the people that believing their God wholeheartedly, it's obligation! period!
 
MuhammadRizan said:
but Law and Punishment are one.


No they are not. We are supposed to be civilised.

Tell me, under Islamic law, what is the prescribed method of execution?

-
 
Salam.

No they are not. We are supposed to be civilised.

yes they are, that's why even a secular government makes Law and at the same time they build prison..prison is not a happy place.

Law without punishment is illogical.

Tell me, under Islamic law, what is the prescribed method of execution?

i will tell you the most barbaric one(according to you).

Stoning to married(with somebody else) adulterer couple after convicted with 4 reliable eyewitness.
 
Man does not know gods law, man is to easily deceived by satan,

That would then mean man is not punishable for not establishing them, so he is not punishable for commiting adultery or homosexuality?
 
That would then mean man is not punishable for not establishing them, so he is not punishable for commiting adultery or homosexuality?

Can you tell me what logic of mine is flawed, I'd appriciate it.



I believe God's law is in the Qur'an and Sunnah of Muhammad. I don't know all of it and every detail though, still trying to.

IMO man does not and can not know Gods law, so man can not be punished for something he does not know, thats where I think your logic is flawed.

Some men think that they know what Gods law is but I doubt that they do, they interpret scripture and think it is Gods law, but how can man know Gods law, he cant IMO.
 
IMO man does not and can not know Gods law, so man can not be punished for something he does not know, thats where I think your logic is flawed.

So wait am confused, are you saying that man will be punished for something he did not know?
 
Stoning to married(with somebody else) adulterer couple after convicted with 4 reliable eyewitness.

I'm curious about the mechanics of that.

Are these eyewitnesses then prosecuted for being peeping toms?

Or does this only ever get convictions when people make out in the streets for all to see? Has this ever had a conviction in the past say 100 years or is it something people "believe in" but don't practice (like the Christians regarding all the bible's prescriptions for stonings?)

And you said stoning, do you mean stoning to death?
 
salam.

I'm curious about the mechanics of that.

married person that commited adultery will be stone to death if he/she convicted by 4 reliable eyewitness or maybe in the modern days-video.

Are these eyewitnesses then prosecuted for being peeping toms?

eyewitness also will be question their reliability in court...if they are doubtful person they will be dismiss...if they're cought lying they will be cane in public.

Or does this only ever get convictions when people make out in the streets for all to see?

this is new lesson for u bro...means it's not that easy to stone people to death..anti-islamist will give u the impressions that mouzlem will kill all sinner and all infidel without hesitation because koran said so..but as we know in reality it's not that easy.,.there is procedure, consideration, trial and other thing.

Has this ever had a conviction in the past say 100 years

i don't know, stoning event is so rare even at the times of Muhammad 1400 years ago..but there is couple case in this modern day..just google it.

or is it something people "believe in" but don't practice (like the Christians regarding all the bible's prescriptions for stonings?)

yea this type of sickness has already haunted some muslim leader today..i dont know about other country..but here in Malaysia our leader is basically a sissy...they fear international community more than Allah...

hope that help.

p/s ur avatar freaks me out.:hiding:
 
Last edited:
That issues been addressed in this thread :)


http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/43987-stoning-death-its-effect-me.html




The punishment of stoning is the hadd punishment for the married adulterer, which essentially entails that it functions exclusively as a deterrent. Here's why. To apply this punishment you need four witnesses to the actual act of penetration who observed it from four different angles and if there is even the slightest contradiction in the most minute details of their testimony, they are punished with eighty lashes for false accusation of adultery. Thus, the implementation of the hadd punishment for zina is a practical impossibility. As the fatwâ committee under the supervision of Shaykh 'Abdul-Wahâb At-Turaryrî notes:
It is not enough for four people to show up at court and give testimony. The witnesses and their backgrounds have to be carefully scrutinized by the courts to determine their trustworthiness and honesty. They have to be able to demonstrate that they saw the crime. It is not easy to explain how one was able to witness such an act without being guilty of any wrongdoing oneself. The witnesses have to see actual sexual penetration. This is not an easy thing to explain.

If the condition of four witnesses of determined trustworthiness is not fulfilled, each of those who accused the person of adultery is given 80 lashes with a whip as the punishment for bearing false witness.

Allah says: “And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations), flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors.” [Sûrah al-Nûr: 4]

The punishments for fornication and adultery are designed more to protect society from the open practice of licentious sexual behavior than they are designed to punish people.
It is nearly impossible to get a conviction for adultery except in a case where it is carried out in public for all eyes to see. With this threat of severe punishment, people will keep their evil deeds concealed and society as a whole will be protected.
It is worth noting that in the 1400 years of Islamic history, these stringent conditions have never been met even once. And due to the deterrent effect, sexual immorality is suffocated and eradicated in an Islamic society.

In spite of all this, if the impossibility became reality and the punishment were to be carried out, then how would it be done? For the person who is convicted of such a heinous licentious act they would be placed in a pit and pelted to death while covered by a cloth so that their 'awrah is not exposed. If it is by confession and not conviction, they would have the opportunity to retract their confession at any point in time and so they would not be placed in a pit. No one is allowed to curse the person who undergoes this or express pleasure.

For the reasons outlined above, it is evident that whatever movie you have seen could by no stretch of the imagination be construed as Islamic, as this punishment is a practical impossibility and even then would never occur in the manner described.



http://www.islamicboard.com/591159-post9.html (Stoning)
 
Greetings and peace be with you MuhammadRizan;

The laws of God are a profound subject and I do not think that we shall ever fully understand them. There were no laws when Adam and Eve were created, they were given the freedom to do anything they liked apart from eat from the tree of knowledge. When Adam’s son Cain killed his brother Abel there was not a law saying thou shall not kill; so technically Cain was not breaking any laws by killing his brother.

If there are no laws then no one is guilty of doing wrong; Laws condemn people and so a person becomes guilty when they break a law.

The Ten Commandments were given to Moses many generations later, because mankind was getting more out of hand. But why did God wait for many generations before giving man the Ten Commandments?

The Old Testament and Islam seem very similar in the way their laws are written, but I believe that Jesus came to give us something greater than the Ten Commandments.

In the spirit of searching for God’s perfect law

Eric

:sl: that is not true cain will get part of the punishment for every unjust murder.Matthews5:17-18; jesus(isa) said he did not come to change the laws of the old, but to fulfill them.
 
salam,
that is not true cain will get part of the punishment for every unjust murder.Matthews5:17-18; jesus(isa) said he did not come to change the laws of the old, but to fulfill them.

they said 'fulfill' means 'Die in the cross'...so after that 'fulfillment' you dont need the law of Moses...then u can live happily ever after...

they interpreted somethin' that don't need interpretation.
 
salam.



married person that commited adultery will be stone to death if he/she convicted by 4 reliable eyewitness or maybe in the modern days-video.



eyewitness also will be question their reliability in court...if they are doubtful person they will be dismiss...if they're cought lying they will be cane in public.



this is new lesson for u bro...means it's not that easy to stone people to death..anti-islamist will give u the impressions that mouzlem will kill all sinner and all infidel without hesitation because koran said so..but as we know in reality it's not that easy.,.there is procedure, consideration, trial and other thing.



i don't know, stoning event is so rare even at the times of Muhammad 1400 years ago..but there is couple case in this modern day..just google it.



yea this type of sickness has already haunted some muslim leader today..i dont know about other country..but here in Malaysia our leader is basically a sissy...they fear international community more than Allah...

hope that help.

p/s ur avatar freaks me out.:hiding:

Can i make you one simple question ?!! Can you tell me where in Quran (Koran) is steted that adulters need to be stoned to death ?!!
Dont tell me that you are one of them , that belive that quranic verse that was dealing with Rajm ( stoning ) was eaten by a goat ?!!!

IceFusion , with respect
 
salam.

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,


Fornication (zina) and that which leads to fornication is completely unlawful and considered a major sin. The Qur’an and Sunnah are quite clear about this.


Allah Most High says:


“Do not come (even) near to adultery, for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road to other evils.” (Surah al-Isra, 32)


Thus, fornication and whatever that leads to it, such as touching, kissing, embracing, informal interaction are all considered to be major sins, hence must be avoided at all times.


As far as the Islamic legal punishment for fornication is concerned, the Hanafi jurist (faqih), Imam al-Mawsili (Allah have mercy on him) states:


“It (legal punishment) is established by evidence and confession. Evidence is that four people give testimony against a man and woman that they committed fornication. When they testify (in the courts), the judge (qadhi) will inquire from the witnesses the particulars and details of what took place, the place of incident, the time of incident, and the identity of the woman involved. When they give details of all of this and they state that the woman was unlawful upon the man in every way, and that they testify the observing of sexual intercourse taking place like they see a Kohl needle entering the Kohl bottle, and the four witnesses are considered upright both privately and publicly, then the judge will give the order for the legal punishment to be enforced upon the perpetrators.” (See: al-Ikhtiyar li ta’lil al-Mukhtar, 2/312-313)


We can see from the above text (and other such texts in the books of Fiqh) that there are detailed and stringent conditions for the legal punishment of fornication and adultery to be enforced upon an individual. If these conditions are not met, the punishment will not be enforced.


One should always keep in mind the objective and spirit of Shariah concerning the various legal punishments. The idea is not to enforce the punishment and make people suffer; rather the objective is to prevent harm, corruption and immorality in the society. Thus, legal punishments act as deterrents more than actually get people punished.


Allah Most High says:


“In the law of retaliation there is (saving of) life to you, O you men of understanding.” (Surah al-Baqarah, V: 179)


An example of this which comes to mind is that we see speed cameras being placed on many roads and streets (especially here in the UK!) in order to deter people from speeding in their vehicles. The idea behind these speed cameras is not to catch people speeding, rather to prevent people from speeding and causing accidents. If the aim was to catch people speeding, there would be no warning signs indicating that a camera is present. However, we see that whenever a speed camera is placed, many warnings are given that “beware this road has a speed camera”. Many of the times, the camera is not even in operation, hence, the idea is to stop people speeding rather than catch and punish them.


The same is with the various legal punishments prescribed by Shariah, in that they are prescribed to prevent people from committing unlawful actions and corrupting the society, yet the rules and conditions for a legal punishment to be enforced are so stringent that very rarely would an individual be punished. The legal punishment is considered a deterrent, but if an individual did involve him/herself in some unlawful activity, the objective now is not to get the individual punished rather to save him/her from the punishment.


This will become more evident with the following incident that took place in the time of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace):


Sayyiduna Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) narrates: “A man from amongst the people came to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) while he (the Messenger of Allah) was sitting in the Masjid, and addressed him, saying: “O Messenger of Allah! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse.” The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) turned his face away from him. The man came to that side to which the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) had turned his face, and said: “O Messenger of Allah! I have committed illegal intercourse.” The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) turned his face to the other side, and the man came to that side. When he confessed four times, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) called him and said: “Are you insane?” He said: “No, O Messenger of Allah!” The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Are you married?” He said: “Yes, O Messenger of Allah!” The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said (to the people): “Take him away and stone him to death.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 6439)


The above incident shows the importance of trying to avert a legal punishment as much as possible. The man came and confessed to the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) that he had committed unlawful sexual intercourse, yet the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) ignored him, in order that he may change his mind.


Similarly, Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that When Ma’iz ibn Malik came to the Messenger of Allah (and confessed that he had committed adultery), the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to him: “Probably you have only kissed (the woman), or touched, or looked at her?” He said: “No, O Messenger of Allah!” The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), using no euphemism, said: “Did you have sexual intercourse with her?” The narrator said: At that moment, (i.e. after he confessed that he had sexual intercourse), the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) ordered that he be stoned.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no: 6438)

This famous incident of Ma’iz ibn Malik also gives the same message, in that the Imam should try his best to avoid the legal punishment. This is the reason why it is recommended to say to the one who confesses committing fornication that “You may only have touched, you may only have kissed, are you sure you had sex, think again properly of what you are saying and think of the consequences of your confession, and other such things.


This (trying to avert a legal punishment) has been explicitly mentioned in one Hadith. Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Keep the Muslims away from punishments as much as possible. If there is any way out for an offender to escape punishment, acquit him. It is better for a judge to make an error in acquittal than in conviction.” (Sunan Tirmidhi, no: 1424)


Due to the forgoing, the Fuqaha have laid down (based on the guidelines of the Qur’an and Sunnah) certain strict rules and conditions in order for a punishment to be established or enforced. These strict conditions can be seen in all of the various penalties that have been imposed. The following are certain rules and conditions for the punishment of committing adultery to be enforced, as mentioned in the books of Hanafi jurisprudence:


1) It is actual vaginal sexual intercourse (and not anal or oral intercourse) that takes place between a man and a woman.


2) The man and woman involved in this unlawful sexual intercourse are not married; neither is the woman a slave-girl of the man.


3) It is proven by four people testifying that they clearly observed the couple engaged in unlawful sexual intercourse without any doubt or ambiguity. They are able to say that they saw their private parts meet like the Kohl needle entering the Kohl bottle. The judge would ask them all the various details concerning the time and location of the incident, and who were the people involved and other such matters, in order to remove any doubt.


4) If the four witnesses take back their testimony before the actual punishment is enforced, then the punishment will be abandoned, and they (witnesses) will be punished for the crime of false accusation.


5) The witnesses are not allowed to delay their testimony from the time of the incident to the time of testifying. If they delayed testifying in the courts, the punishment will not be enforced, unless they were very distant from the Imam hence the delay was due to them travelling to the Imam.


6) The punishment of adultery is also proven if the perpetrator him/herself confesses to be guilty of the crime. He/she must be sane, mature (baligh) and must confess four separate times in four separate sessions that the crime was committed. The Imam will try to wave away the punishment as much as possible by saying to the confessor that “you may have only touched or kissed” and other such statements. The Imam will also inquire about the various details of the incident, and when the confessor explains everything without leaving any doubt or ambiguity, the punishment will be enforced.


7) If the confessor takes back his words before the punishment is enforced or during the punishment, he/she will be released and set free. (See: al-Ikhtiyar li ta’lil al-Mukhtar, 2/311-316 & other major Hanafi Fiqh references)


The legal punishment:


If the crime of fornication is carried out by an individual who is sane, mature, Muslim and is married to a spouse who is also sane, mature, Muslim, and that their marriage is consummated, then the legal punishment is that he/she will be stoned to death (rajm). The Imam, witnesses and other Muslims would take part in the stoning. If the witnesses refuse to take part in stoning the perpetrator, the punishment will be dropped, as this would be considered a sign of them taking back their testimony.


If the crime of fornication is carried out by an individual who does not qualify to be in the above category, then the punishment is that he/she will be given 100 lashes. These whips and lashes will be spread out over the body, avoiding the head, face and the private parts. A pregnant woman will not be whipped until she gives birth to her child and after her post natal bleeding (nifas). However, if she is to be stoned, then this may be carried out straight after giving birth.


Finally, one should remember that it is not necessary in order for one’s sin to be forgiven that he/she receives the legal punishment (hadd) for the sin committed. The reason being is that one is not obliged to confess that he/she committed adultery; hence one may keep the sin hidden and not inform the Islamic judge about it. Also the various Islamic legal punishments (hudud) are only carried out in an Islamic state (dar al-Islam) by the Imam, thus repenting to Allah Almighty will be sufficient.


The above are just some of the necessary elements concerning the legal punishment of fornication and adultery. There are other details also, but time does not allow me to discuss them, hence the above should be sufficient for now, Insha Allah.


And Allah knows best


Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari
Darul Iftaa, Leicester, UK

The verse about stoning adulterer is not in the quran...it only stated in Muhammad sunnah...is it a problem? nope! coz i stated earlier that source of God's Law in from Quran and Sunnah...The word of God and His inspired Prophet.

Conclusion.

The goat is not guilty.:p
 

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