The ‘Mechanism’ Behind Intelligent Design

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Greetings,


If you type the word 'trinucleotide' into the search engine, only one thread comes up - this one. If you search for posts, you get the two posts on this page where it's mentioned.

Are you sure there isn't a link you could provide that explains why this phenomenon is such a problem for evolution? I've never seen you explain it, and everything I can find about it on the internet seems to be in conformity with evolution.

Peace

I remember us having this conversation before and I have labored over a reply (I have a photographic memory) you need not have things highlighted to you as an actual defect to make another implausible.. that is in fact what separates free thinkers from conformists ...

Natural selection allegedly results in only those best adapted tend to survive and transmit their genetic characteristics to succeeding generations while those less adapted tend to be eliminated.. well in trinucleotide repeat expansionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_mutation unstable and defective genes increase and repeat count with each successive generation. I remember distinctly going through huntington's and fragile X to name a few.

How is that in conformity with natural selection? Please read everything I have written as I have written it, not the selective parts and espouse them all into one big mess!

all the best!
 
Why would Huntington's not fit with evolution? Most sufferers don't have any of the detrimental symptoms until long after they've reached sexual maturity and been able to pass on their genes. In most cases it would have no effect at all on their 'fitness' to reproduce.
 
The percentage chance of the first genetic material capable of successfully adapting to an environment and reproducing and then repeating this for several hundred cycles, factoring adaptation to adverse weather, viruses, mutations and so on and so forth.
Yes but what are the numbers and where did you get them?

I consider that to be a very slim chance of happening. 9 planets, all but one uninhabitable DUE to its proximity to the Sun.
There are about 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the visible universe, you reckon some of them might have planets in a similar situation?
 
Why would Huntington's not fit with evolution? Most sufferers don't have any of the detrimental symptoms until long after they've reached sexual maturity and been able to pass on their genes. In most cases it would have no effect at all on their 'fitness' to reproduce.


We are discussing natural selection not your 30 second google search!
 
Yes but what are the numbers and where did you get them?
1 in 10 ^33 from this dude

And I'm aware of the criticism oh this is after the event. I'm not arguing that it was impossible to occur - just that if we take that number seriously, we're an extremely lucky species. I'm also aware that not all species have a 1 in 10 ^ 33 chance of evolving (some are less) - but that very first piece of genetic material had to have been extremely lucky to live long enough to adapt to its surroundings (or the surroundings must have been at the right temperature that was capable of sustaining that initial life form - either way, luck is involved).


There are about 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the visible universe, you reckon some of them might have planets in a similar situation?
Maybe, who knows. Like I said earlier tho, let's try and deal with our solar system. Otherwise, I will be forced to use my Chewbacca defense and this conversation will quickly become retarded.
 
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Greetings,
I remember us having this conversation before and I have labored over a reply (I have a photographic memory)

You've mentioned your memory skills many times. As I'm sure you'll recall. :p

you need not have things highlighted to you as an actual defect to make another implausible.. that is in fact what separates free thinkers from conformists ...

Unfortunately, I can't make any sense of that. How many sentences have there been in your post so far?

Natural selection allegedly results in only those best adapted tend to survive and transmit their genetic characteristics to succeeding generations while those less adapted tend to be eliminated.. well in trinucleotide repeat expansionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_mutation unstable and defective genes increase and repeat count with each successive generation. I remember distinctly going through huntington's and fragile X to name a few.

So the genes are surviving. Where is the problem? If these diseases don't affect the chances of an individual reproducing and passing on genes, I don't see how this is connected to natural selection.

How is that in conformity with natural selection? Please read everything I have written as I have written it, not the selective parts and espouse them all into one big mess!

'Espouse'? Try to write clearly rather than exotically. Using flashy vocabulary incorrectly impresses nobody.

Peace
 
I will be forced to use my Chewbacca defense and this conversation will quickly become retarded.

Please tell me the Chewbacca defense, pretty please! Its being used in almost every other thread I've read on this forum, and I just can't put my finger on it!
 
Greetings,


You've mentioned your memory skills many times. As I'm sure you'll recall. :p

so what is the problem with you? selective recall?


Unfortunately, I can't make any sense of that. How many sentences have there been in your post so far?
That isn't something I can remedy, I can't teach you science!
So the genes are surviving. Where is the problem? If these diseases don't affect the chances of an individual reproducing and passing on genes, I don't see how this is connected to natural selection.
is that what natural selection is about in your mind? reproduction? or superior genes selected and passed down?



'Espouse'? Try to write clearly rather than exotically. Using flashy vocabulary incorrectly impresses nobody.

Peace
Indeed, espouse as to conjoin one topic with another.. if you scroll back you'll see that you have purposefully or perhaps ignorantly exchange evolution for natural selection.. it is no matter to me either way, what you chose to learn or not, what I do care about is when you misconstrue what I have written so they become in concert with your own personal desires or beliefs.. I am inclined to agree with your statement though if it were the actually the case that I am out to impress you, but I promise you that I don't even think that you share a league with me for me to make any effort at impressing you!

all the best
 
Abiogenesis is a different topic...

Evolution is simply a lie invented by Satan and the Zionists to control us all. I read that somewhere, and the guy sounded very intelligent, and thoroughly convincing.

what proof do u have ? u said
Evolution is simply a lie invented by Satan and the Zionists to control us all
there is no proof
 
I'm not arguing that it was impossible to occur - just that if we take that number seriously, we're an extremely lucky species.

By what criteria would you define an unlucky species in this context?
 
Greetings,
so what is the problem with you? selective recall?

You can't stop yourself, can you?

That isn't something I can remedy, I can't teach you science!

That gibberish had something to do with science, did it?

is that what natural selection is about in your mind? reproduction? or superior genes selected and passed down?

No, it's about candy-floss. What do you think?

Would you like to have another go at answering the question?

Indeed, espouse as to conjoin one topic with another..

Was that really the clearest way to express it?

if you scroll back you'll see that you have purposefully or perhaps ignorantly exchange evolution for natural selection..

I was using 'evolution' as shorthand for 'evolution by natural selection'. Please forgive me.

it is no matter to me either way, what you chose to learn or not, what I do care about is when you misconstrue what I have written so they become in concert with your own personal desires or beliefs..

I usually misconstrue what you've written because because untangling your ideas from the dense web of verbiage, obscurantism and insults you provide is a challenge for anybody. Finnegans Wake is an easy read compared with many of your posts.

If you genuinely care about making yourself understood, you'll write more clearly. Writing in sentences would be a good start.

I am inclined to agree with your statement though if it were the actually the case that I am out to impress you, but I promise you that I don't even think that you share a league with me for me to make any effort at impressing you!

You're not out to impress me, but you clearly want to impress somebody with your unique approach to the English language.

So, come on. Being the hyperintelligent superbeing you present yourself as, it should be a simple matter to explain to us thickies what the problem is with trinucleotide repeat expansion. Go for it.

Peace
 
Greetings,


You can't stop yourself, can you?

& are you exempt of the same sanctions or simply too good to be true?



That gibberish had something to do with science, did it?
as stated previously, I can't teach you science if you are not willing to even acknowledge that you have a serious deficiency-- Are you able to butter your bread with the scorn that you hold for some members here?
No, it's about candy-floss. What do you think?
That doesn't answer nor pose a question of relevance.. if you want to descend every topic to mere word play to be in concert with your level of expertise, I suggest you do it in the 'puzzles and Humor' section!
Would you like to have another go at answering the question?
until such a time when you can pose your questions to an acceptable degree without being exacerbated or throwing a tantrum can you expect a more detailed reply, you don't seem to make a minimum effort and I am not looking to waste of my time!

Was that really the clearest way to express it?
oh, and what would you recommend? Is this topic about wrangling with words or about science?


I was using 'evolution' as shorthand for 'evolution by natural selection'. Please forgive me.
You seek forgiveness for substituting a mechanism for the heading, a sub-category, and by the same token have a hostile showdown about the word 'espouse' worst yet, claim to understand science? --hilarious-- :D
you are forgiven!



I usually misconstrue what you've written because because untangling your ideas from the dense web of verbiage, obscurantism and insults you provide is a challenge for anybody. Finnegans Wake is an easy read compared with many of your posts.
Then perhaps you can do yourself a great service by avoiding to ensnare me in a reply every so often and of the same topic, only to peddle the same practiced lines as if your manhood depended so deeply on it?
I have a paper published on Genomic fingerprinting using arbitrarily primed PCR, I am sure you'll find it as equally baffling as many of my posts here, but it has nothing to do with my English, rather the subject matter is well over your head!

If you genuinely care about making yourself understood, you'll write more clearly. Writing in sentences would be a good start.
See above!

You're not out to impress me, but you clearly want to impress somebody with your unique approach to the English language.
your life seems to spin in an void, try to broaden your horizon or in the very least imagine that others don't share the same platform with you.. while at it, Perhaps you can point out my secret (impress)ee? -- we should be entitled to some mild amusement out of your frequent drivel!

btw I liked that bit about 'Finnegans Wake' and I just know you weren't after an impression with that one.. it is right up your alley!

So, come on. Being the hyperintelligent superbeing you present yourself as, it should be a simple matter to explain to us thickies what the problem is with trinucleotide repeat expansion. Go for it.
Luckily my super intelligent being' self-worth isn't contingent on the accreditation nor approval of an atheist with a teaching degree, a teacher's manual and his low quality attempts at a public duel...

try to take yourself out of the state of mind that so has you trammeled when it comes to me... I think you detract from your own self worth, which I am convinced means something to you as you seem to highlight your one accolade every so often when addressing me..
Mastery of the English language doesn't make scholars of oafs!

whatever you say :wink:
 
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By what criteria would you define an unlucky species in this context?

Well that's the trick isn't it; the unlucky ones are those who didn't make it, so I wouldn't be able to tell you ;). We're lucky because little Jimmy the first genetic material managed to evolve, against all the odds (or they were in his favour, either way, that is pretty lucky).
 
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Greetings Skye,

I've looked through your latest post and tried to find some useful content, but there is none. Got a link yet?

Peace
 
We are discussing natural selection not your 30 second google search!
I appear to have repeated czgibson's mistake
and used evolution interchangeably with natural selection.

So the question is now: "Why is Huntington's not compatible with natural selection?"
 
1 in 10 ^33 from this dude
The 1 in 10^33 refers to the formation of a functional haemoglobin-like molecule by random assembly from amino acids, not the probability of life from non-life and not the formation of anything in a non-random fashion.

You also ignored the part in the same paragraph that says
"Given odds of 1 in 10^33, the hypothetical random molecular generators mentioned above could discover a usable hemoglobin molecule trillions of times per second", speaking of the molecular generator used in the anti-evolutionist example.

So rather than supporting the idea that such a thing is highly unlikely, that paper confirms that such a thing would actually be highly likely, in fact a near certainty, even using the figures cited by creationists to discredit abiogenesis.
Maybe, who knows. Like I said earlier tho, let's try and deal with our solar system. Otherwise, I will be forced to use my Chewbacca defense and this conversation will quickly become retarded.
Well that brings me to another quote from the paper you mentioned.

"This is an intriguing line of reasoning, but it has serious flaws. One flaw, common to many arguments of this sort, is that it is an after-the-fact assessment of probability, which is unreliable without a very careful consideration of all possible alternate contingencies." (emphasis mine)

As I said before, if you ignore the possibility of other places with favourable conditions or don't include other possible types of life and their favoured conditions, you're never going to get a reasonable figure.
 
The 1 in 10^33 refers to the formation of a functional haemoglobin-like molecule by random assembly from amino acids, not the probability of life from non-life and not the formation of anything in a non-random fashion.

You also ignored the part in the same paragraph that says
"Given odds of 1 in 10^33, the hypothetical random molecular generators mentioned above could discover a usable hemoglobin molecule trillions of times per second", speaking of the molecular generator used in the anti-evolutionist example.

So rather than supporting the idea that such a thing is highly unlikely, that paper confirms that such a thing would actually be highly likely, in fact a near certainty, even using the figures cited by creationists to discredit abiogenesis.
If that is the case, we still need to establish WHY and HOW little Jimmy is capable of doing what he does. He has a remarkable and ingenious attribute making him incredibly complex. There has to be a reason for that.

Well that brings me to another quote from the paper you mentioned.

"This is an intriguing line of reasoning, but it has serious flaws. One flaw, common to many arguments of this sort, is that it is an after-the-fact assessment of probability, which is unreliable without a very careful consideration of all possible alternate contingencies." (emphasis mine)

As I said before, if you ignore the possibility of other places with favourable conditions or don't include other possible types of life and their favoured conditions, you're never going to get a reasonable figure.
The problem is, we can't gauge other places and possibilites just yet. We're limited in our knowledge of this solar system, so that's why I'm ''ignoring'' those other possibilties. We have to deal in what we can understand and what we know.

Yes, this won't give us 100% accuracy, but at least we can have some form of meaningful dialoge over the subject matter. Some discussion is better than no discussion, right?
 
If that is the case, we still need to establish WHY and HOW little Jimmy is capable of doing what he does. He has a remarkable and ingenious attribute making him incredibly complex. There has to be a reason for that.
'How' is just a question of chemistry. 'Why' is a question we can't answer, or even know for certain that there is an answer.
We have to deal in what we can understand and what we know.
How is that compatible with with the WHY question above?
Yes, this won't give us 100% accuracy, but at least we can have some form of meaningful dialoge over the subject matter. Some discussion is better than no discussion, right?
We can discuss it, yeah fine, but using probabilities in isolation isn't really helpful in this case. Yes, you're really lucky if you won the lottery, but the chances that someone will win the lottery are high.

One thing you've left out of your habitable zone discussion thus far is that of the star's age. A star becomes gradually warmer as it ages, and therefore the habitable zone moves further from the star over time. Early in our Sun's life, Venus would have been within the habitable zone, and later in our Sun's life Mars will be within it.

Interesting links:
A planet orbiting Gliese 581
Venus was possibly habitable
 
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