The New American Century

[Abz2000]

here are the troops i support:

Iraq Veterans Against the War scored a victory for free speech today in Kansas City, MO. A panel of three Marine Corps officers recommended today that Adam Kokesh receive a general discharge under honorable conditions. Adam and his attorney will, however, appeal this finding on the grounds that Adam is entitled to his full honorable discharge. In a seemingly hypocritical contradiction, the Marine Corps panel, as well as the prosecution's key witness, Major Whyte, agreed that the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) does not apply to members of the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR). Regardless of this, several other honorably discharged IVAW members are facing a similar hearing based on their stance against the war. IVAW members will continue to tell the truth about our experiences in Iraq and in the military and fight to bring our brothers and sisters home from Iraq now.
IVAW has just received confirmation from the Washington Post that member Cloy Richards will also be charged by the Marine Corps, but Cloy has not yet received any disciplinary paperwork.
Here's another pic of what got them in hot water in Washington, DC -

 

[Abz2000]

no, his last post clearly shows he is blaming most americans.

maybe you think the Prophet (pbuh) was blaming all Makkans when he would speak of the Makkans?
nah - i don't think so.

maybe you think the people in Amerika hated all Germans when they said "germans" in reference to NAZIs?

maybe you are unaware that Muslims and Islam are so often brought up in the media in conjunction with all the false flag terror attacks the government commits?
ask king of 9's what he thought of Muslims after watching the media hype after 9/11.



maybe they love Iraqis so much that they're bankrupting Amerika to bring "freedom to the children of Iraq":

 

[GuestFellow]

no, his last post clearly shows he is blaming most americans.

:wa:

Can you please show me? I'm having difficulty finding it...

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Dont treat as if I am stupid, PLEASE explain what YOU mean by "MOST" americans? thanks

Most Americans don't give a dam whether or not we have killed 3 million Vietnamese or 1 million Iraqis. They only care about ther own selfish selfs and whether or not the price of gasoline rises. It is a copout to say "I don't support the war, but I support our troops." The troops VOLUNTEERED to join the military. There is no draft or coercion for them to join. They CHOOSE to join knowing full well they may have to kill people in order to be able to pay for education and whatever else the recruiter promises them.

 

[Abz2000]

i see sparks flying on this forum - nice and lively huh?
it was quite peaceful before but i can see angry red faces today,
angry at each other instead of angry at those who are spreading mischief and corruption throughout the earth.
sweete 106, please help us out by asking fox and the whitehouse not to create hatred by blaming their own false flag attacks on Islam.
thereby generalizing and creating hatred for a whole nation. (remember the ground zero mosque fiasco?)
it seems they walk out of un meetings when world leaders request an independent investigation into events they slanderously blame on Islam,
they haven't even indicted Osama bin laden for the 9/11 attacks due to absence of evidence - yet they continue to illegally make out in the media that he is the perpetrator.
they themselves attempt to ridicule people who refer to it as a malicious cabal who has taken over governance of the country and is incrementally imposing martial law, and call them "conspiracy theorists".
i would say vales lilly is rightly indignant:
watch these vids about righteous hatred, forgive the language:

 

[MustafaMc]

Dont treat as if I am stupid, PLEASE explain what YOU mean by "MOST" americans? thanks

It helps when you quote someone to know who you are addressing. I can only go by the 'most' Americans that I encounter and there is basically no one who will even carry on a conversation about the topic. What I hear is "support our troops" and honoring the dead and wounded soldiers. How many non-Muslim Americans do you know who gives a dam about the millions of civilian people (German, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Afghan, Iraqi) killed by their military in the name of 'democracy' and 'freedom'? Personally, I can't name a single one!

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Who said I was angry? I am not angry at all.

So how does it help to generalise the every people you want to persuade to stop hating us?

How do I explain to a non Muslim when they say to me every time they have a debate or have conversation about certain issue about our religion, most Muslims use their culture and society as form of defence? And those particular Muslim don’t see them as ‘individual’ that may not subscribe or agree with their government, culture, religion and society?

I see two type of exchange between Muslims and non Muslims these days.

1) “Liberal” – the type of Muslim that agrees with everything they say and says that Islam agrees with it all.
2) “other” – the type of Muslim that uses their society/government as their main points in the argument. For instance, how does pointing out the music video girls / models in their media or rape statistics persuade a girl to wear the hijab? Bear in mind, most women don’t dress like video girls or model and has never been raped? In particular if you were speaking to someone who already felt they dressed modest like Christian girls who don’t cover her hair? Or pointing out their break down of their family when you are speaking to a gay person.

We need to learn to tailor the conversation towards ‘individual’, stop making them feel like they are being attacked as group.

“Most” Americans are not selfish; it is elite few. Some Americans are poor, can’t afford food and health insurance. Others are working night and day just to have the essential. Others are in debts. So can you imagine an American (who fits into any of the above) who wants to find out more about Islam and read a comment labelling them selfish?

 

[IslamicRevival]

I tried to PM you but your box is full. I was just going to ask for you to transfer your brain to me... I know there is a medical term for that.

Lol Brilliant ;D

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Maybe you need to start tuning into other media and blogs other than right wing ones and arguing with those who you disagree with.
So those videos you posted earlier are what? People that don’t care about the civilians?

Mohamed Ali before he was a Muslim criticise America war on Vietnamese? So did MANY others. Plenty of Americans are still wondering what the hell are they doing in Afghanistan or Iraq in the first place. Look past the mainstream media, look at blogs by non Muslims Americans who are questioning the events of 9/11. Read on academics who on pre 9/11 criticise America support for dictators in the middle east.

goodnight

 

[Maryan0]

Most Americans/Canadians are desensitized people and I guess that's what happens when you are fighting wars that don't hit close to home.
Salam

 

[GuestFellow]

Salaam to all.

Yeah the ending of this made me very angry...hope the soldiers rot in hell, USA/UK biggest terrorist in the world......

Most Americans don't give a dam whether or not we have killed 3 million Vietnamese or 1 million Iraqis. They only care about ther own selfish selfs and whether or not the price of gasoline rises. It is a copout to say "I don't support the war, but I support our troops." The troops VOLUNTEERED to join the military. There is no draft or coercion for them to join. They CHOOSE to join knowing full well they may have to kill people in order to be able to pay for education and whatever else the recruiter promises them.I am at a loss for words to describe your words IF they come from a Muslim. Again I invite you to watch the last 10 minutes as only a very few examples of what life and death in Iraq are really like, then come back and respond to my post. If you can then tell me to "get over it", your reply tells me where your heart is and I fear for you in giving an account before Allah (swt).

Dont treat as if I am stupid, PLEASE explain what YOU mean by "MOST" americans? thanks

Of course you are not stupid. :/ I think there has been a confusion. When I said, "he was blaming the soldiers", I was referring to brother PoweredByGoogle (I love that name). Are you referring to brother MustafaMc post?

 

[MustafaMc]

Actually, there are Americans who care! I just read an article http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame.asp?Frame=1&referenceID=60088 about Jimmy Carter who was president from 1976 to 1980. He was president during the 444 days that Iran held Americans hostage. He authorized a rescue attempt that was botched, but he refused to bomb Teheran. Quoting from the article:

"It's the simple fact of not going to war that, given what came next, should be recognised. "In the last 50 years now, more than that," he says, "that's almost a unique achievement." He was bitterly opposed to both Iraq wars. "Iraq was just a terrible mistake. I thought so in Iraq 1, and I was against it in Iraq 2."

Regrading the hostage crisis:

What could the US do? How could it save the hostages? It was a question that President Carter wrestled with for 444 long days. It paralysed the presidency. Carter refused to campaign for re-election, refused to light the White House Christmas tree, refused to bomb Tehran.

Rosalynn has been quoted as saying that, had her husband bombed Tehran, he would have been re-elected. I put this to Carter. "That's probably true. A lot of people thought that. But it would probably have resulted in the death of maybe tens of thousands of Iranians who were innocent, and in the deaths of the hostages as well. In retrospect I don't have any doubt that I did the right thing. But it was not a popular thing among the public, and it was not even popular among my own advisers inside the White House. Including my wife."

Does anyone think that George (Dubya) Bush considered the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis before the invasion of Iraq? I admit to being wrong about Jimmy Carter. I wrote in my high school memories book in 1978, "Mistake of the '70's - election of Jimmy Carter - President or rather 'Peanut Farmer'. " In hindsight I will have to say that I have more admiration and respect for him than any US president since John F. Kennedy. To be honest he was the kind of president who presented America to the world as Americans see themselves, albeit naively so.

 

[MustafaMc]

Of course you are not stupid. :/ I think there has been a confusion. When I said, "he was blaming the soldiers", I was referring to brother PoweredByGoogle (I love that name). Are you referring to brother MustafaMc post?

Yep, she was referring to me.

I would like for someone to refute my statement, puh-leeze. I admit that it may be upsetting to my fellow Americans, but, come on now, do 'most Americans' really care about the innocent Iraqi and Afghan civilians or do they care about their 'heroes' such as this puke-inducing quote:

I want to Thank Every Single one of the Service Members that have laid down their lives, and those who still risk their lives for us, each and every day. You help make and keep this country safe. Thank you for always being there Risking Everything for us! who knows where we would be without you.

 

[Ramadhan]

“Most” Americans are not selfish; it is elite few. Some Americans are poor, can’t afford food and health insurance. Others are working night and day just to have the essential. Others are in debts. So can you imagine an American (who fits into any of the above) who wants to find out more about Islam and read a comment labelling them selfish?

Isn't this also the same as saying that "most americans don't give a **** about millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan"?

I could also say that most Indonesians don't give a **** about Iraq and Afghanistan either, just because people are already burdened by their day to day problems.

If most americans actually gave a **** about millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the troops would all have been withdrawn from the two countries long ago. After all, USA is a democratic country, no? and the wishes of the majority becomes the law, no?

I'm sorry to say this, but I think you have read things not actually written or intended.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

No it is nor the same because I said some. America is not democracy in sense that people that VOTE to stop wars. They don’t vote on policies and most politicians don’t do as they say. And does most American even vote?
And what is so democratic about a system where they only have two chooses: republicans or democratic? Both are pretty much the same.
So people in here can say most Americans are don’t give a s**** because of their government. What does that say about Saudis? They don’t give s **** about their fellow Muslims. :hiding:

 

[Tyrion]

If most americans actually gave a **** about millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the troops would all have been withdrawn from the two countries long ago. After all, USA is a democratic country, no? and the wishes of the majority becomes the law, no?

Uhh, do you really think it's that simple?

 

[MustafaMc]

If most americans actually gave a **** about millions killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the troops would all have been withdrawn from the two countries long ago. After all, USA is a democratic country, no? and the wishes of the majority becomes the law, no?

Thank you for your comments, but I agree with Brother Tyrion. I believe that USA is controlled by the Corporate Elite and that they control the political system to serve their own selfish capitalistic interests. Democracy in USA is a farce to give people the illusion of public control or even influence over the political process. Anytime you see the words 'democracy' or 'freedom' just substitute the words 'capitalism' and 'exploitation'. Capitalism is an amoral system that desires the transfer of public wealth into the hands of an extremely few people. This Corporate Elite also control the media and what people think. The tragic events of 9/11 cemented this control with instantaneous and almost complete brainwashing and manipulation of the American people to the extent that they don't even realize what has happened to them or to their country, beginning in 2000 with Bush stealing the presidential election from Gore. My perception is that 'most Americans' are more concerned about preserving their own high standard of living and are more worried about either the value of their stock investments or the continued flow of social security and welfare checks than they are about justice and the suffering of people outside the borders of USA.

The plan for establishing American domination of the world was laid out in a report 'Rebuilding America's Defenses' published in September 2000 by a neo-conservative thinktank, 'Project for a New American Century' http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf There is a single sentence that is often quoted in context of 9/11, "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor". Now if you stop and think about it, it does not make any sense to just sit around twiddling-one's-thumbs and waiting for a 'new Pearl Harbor' to happen with the timing and magnitude for inducing the desired effect. If a traumatic, catalyzing event is desired to initiate a transformation of society into a 'New World Order' then it makes a lot more sense to go out there, secretly make it happen and then blame it on the most likely threat in a massive false flag operation, just like the Reichstag Fire in 1933.

 

[Grofica]

The use of English has absolutely nothing to do with speaking the truth.

No but if you hate us english people so much stop frequenting places with so many english and american folk.

If you watch the last 10 minutes of this video and still feel the same way, then it is clear you side with the oppressor over the oppressed masses of innocent Iraqi civilians.

1. I cant watch youtube. and 2. if you feel so strongly then why dont you come over here (iraq) and hold a pretty little sign in protest.

For myself I was born as one of "us" you speak of but my heart goes out to "them"..

Fantastic and mine too but things were worse here when there was a dictator in power. oh wait you would actually have to had been here to see it huh...

The troops VOLUNTEERED to join the military. There is no draft or coercion for them to join. They CHOOSE to join knowing full well they may have to kill people in order to be able to pay for education and whatever else the recruiter promises them.

Is it more dishonorable to sit on a forum and complain about things you will never change or be out in the thick of things and try to make an impact where you can. A person can only affect the things around them but kindness is contagous..

I am at a loss for words to describe your words IF they come from a Muslim. Again I invite you to watch the last 10 minutes as only a very few examples of what life and death in Iraq are really like, then come back and respond to my post. If you can then tell me to "get over it", your reply tells me where your heart is and I fear for you in giving an account before Allah (swt).

And i am at a loss for words how you can be so judgemental forsaking the very pinacle of the faith. Do not fear for me brother... if you really wanted to make a change you would be here and not on a soap box crying about things you will never do anything to change.

I personally cannot get over all the innocent civilians that have been killed in Iraq.

and what of those who were killed by a tyrant before there were news crews to televise it. Dont get me wrong i dont think everything is peachy and perfect life is not peachy and perfect but if you think that that tyrant was all sugar and lollipops well wow....


Someone mentioned something about the media and showing islam in a bad light... well im not saying that is right but people are scared of what they dont understand. When hitler was killing people... people were scared it took time to get over it and the germans showing they were not bad people because 1 person was insaine... if you are fuled by nothing but anger than nothing will ever change. you will only expand their reason for fear. If you want to make a difference go get involved in community events and people will come to you with kindness. :exhausted

 

[GuestFellow]

and what of those who were killed by a tyrant before there were news crews to televise it. Dont get me wrong i dont think everything is peachy and perfect life is not peachy and perfect but if you think that that tyrant was all sugar and lollipops well wow....

Salaam,

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you please elaborate?

 

[Ramadhan]

America is not democracy in sense that people that VOTE to stop wars. They don’t vote on policies and most politicians don’t do as they say. And does most American even vote?

I understand that.
However, voters can vote off politicians if they found them not delivering on their promise or lie to them or didn't get the results people wanted.
Fact: Bush got re-elected in 2004 even after it was clear that he invaded Iraq on lies and even after thousands and thousands of innocent afghanistan and iraqis were killed by the troops or by others who they gave support to.
The republicans and their president candidate lost big time in 2008 not because of iraq and Afghanistan, but because of the economic meltdown and financial crises.

As of now, there is no sign when USA will ever totally withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan. Obama has made promises pre election, and did he keep those promises? no.
He is making new promises, and do people actually believe him? (and there is more than good chance obama will get re-elected)
Do most americans care? nuh uh. As long as they can pay their mortagages and stuff their houses with so many useless things they can find in wal mart, they are not too concerned with politics, let alone foreign affairs, even if their country is wreaking havoc in other parts of the world.
This shows again that most americans do not care about the those innocent lives killed in Iraq and Afghanistan during invasion and occupation.
There were probably more americans concerned about getting the latest info about kim kardashian wedding than about civilians lives getting killed in iraq and afghanistan.

And what is so democratic about a system where they only have two chooses: republicans or democratic? Both are pretty much the same.

last time I heard uncle sam wants the world to be as "democratic" as they are.

So people in here can say most Americans are don’t give a s**** because of their government

So we agree that most americans don't give a d amn (regardless of motive).

What does that say about Saudis? They don’t give s **** about their fellow Muslims.

I find it baffling and ironic how you give clear enemies of Islam (who support Israel that killed palestinians, invaded and occupied two muslim countries and killed directly and indirectly a million muslims in the process) the benefit of a doubt (and got upset when someone called most americans don't give a d amn) but are pretty confident that a whole muslims nation (saudia) don't give a d amn about fellow muslims.