The true religion.

salaam

The list is from Wikipedia ......... that explains why the list is so heavily flawed.

peace.
 
Gubbleknucker started this thread looking for the true religion partially from the list that he found and partially from the knowledge possessed by his fellow posters .

So remembering that skeptics only need a little proof is any one going to help him.
 
do they need 'little proof' or perhaps the more pressing issue is an immediate remedy to their echolalia just to loan the rest of their credo some validation.....
 
AntiKarateKid said:
In addition to the fact that 1400 years later, people haven't been able to produce a similar work of Arab literature.
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I have run across this claim a few times now. Its a bit vague. What would qualify as "a similar work of arab literature?" and who would decide if something somebody wrote was one? It seems to me that no matter what we write the muslims are going to declare it not "a similar work of arab literature", simply to maintain this claim (and thus making it pretty self fulfilling and empty).

Peace.
 
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Pygoscelis said:
I have run across this claim a few times now. Its a bit vague. What would qualify as "a similar work of arab literature?" and who would decide if something somebody wrote was one? It seems to me that no matter what we write the muslims are going to declare it not "a similar work of arab literature", simply to maintain this claim (and thus making it pretty self fulfilling and empty).

Peace.
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No Book has ever been able to achieve what the Qur'an has been able to achieve in its miraculousness; ranging from those who hear it, recite it, memorise it (millions of people memorise it letter for letter and have done since its time), its influence in ALL spheres of life [whether its on a personal level, to the political sphere, to transactions and fair dealings with others etc.]

It's a book which applies to ALL times, ALL places, making the most cowardly of people to be the bravest, humbling the arrogant, and reviving societies to the greatest of heights which were breaking down into nothingness. It's a Book which calls to truthfulness, and the highest of morals, calling to forgiveness, but also justice. It's the criterion between truth and falsehood, pleasing to the reader, and understandable to the layperson aswell as the intellectual.


No other book can achieve what the Qur'an can, and has achieved.


Here's a sample of its beauty;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oql3as7LJKg
 
I even referenced Wikipedia in my original post. If I had made the list I would have included the separate Christian denominations as well.

At the time I was thinking about Pascal's wager...
If there is a God, He is infinitely incomprehensible, since, having neither parts nor limits, He has no affinity to us. We are then incapable of knowing either what He is or if He is....

..."God is, or He is not." But to which side shall we incline? Reason can decide nothing here. There is an infinite chaos which separated us. A game is being played at the extremity of this infinite distance where heads or tails will turn up. What will you wager? According to reason, you can do neither the one thing nor the other; according to reason, you can defend neither of the propositions.

Do not, then, reprove for error those who have made a choice; for you know nothing about it. "No, but I blame them for having made, not this choice, but a choice; for again both he who chooses heads and he who chooses tails are equally at fault, they are both in the wrong. The true course is not to wager at all."

Yes; but you must wager. It is not optional. You are embarked. Which will you choose then? Let us see. Since you must choose, let us see which interests you least. You have two things to lose, the true and the good; and two things to stake, your reason and your will, your knowledge and your happiness; and your nature has two things to shun, error and misery. Your reason is no more shocked in choosing one rather than the other, since you must of necessity choose. This is one point settled. But your happiness? Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is.

"That is very fine. Yes, I must wager; but I may perhaps wager too much." Let us see. Since there is an equal risk of gain and of loss, if you had only to gain two lives, instead of one, you might still wager. But if there were three lives to gain, you would have to play (since you are under the necessity of playing), and you would be imprudent, when you are forced to play, not to chance your life to gain three at a game where there is an equal risk of loss and gain. But there is an eternity of life and happiness. And this being so, if there were an infinity of chances, of which one only would be for you, you would still be right in wagering one to win two, and you would act stupidly, being obliged to play, by refusing to stake one life against three at a game in which out of an infinity of chances there is one for you, if there were an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain. But there is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite
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Sarada said:
The right to worship, or not worship as one chooses is a basic human right. No one should be hated or ridiculed for their beliefs.
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I believe in rights based in property.
We own ourselves and we own our minds.

I think the right to belief is part of our right to our minds...
and that any violation of human rights is evil.

I personally lean towards Wicca in this respect:
"An it harm none, do as you will"

They ruin the whole thing by making claims of "magic" and the "law of threes", however.

As a skeptic, I do need proof in order to believe; in the stronghold of Pascal's wager I would only be lying to myself.

No other book can achieve what the Qur'an can, and has achieved.
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Many people claim the same thing of the Bible.



Again, I lean towards pantheism/wicca:
from what I see, Nature has accomplished far more than any Holy Book.
 
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Gubbleknucker said:
I believe in rights based in property.
We own ourselves and we own our minds.

I think the right to belief is part of our right to our minds...
and that any violation of human rights is evil.

I personally lean towards Wicca in this respect:
"An it harm none, do as you will"

They ruin the whole thing by making claims of "magic" and the "law of threes", however.

As a skeptic, I do need proof in order to believe; in the stronghold of Pascal's wager I would only be lying to myself.


Many people claim the same thing of the Bible.



Again, I lean towards pantheism/wicca:
from what I see, Nature has accomplished far more than any Holy Book.
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To celebrate the cycle/circle of life is a wonderful thing. The ancient tribes of Great Britain and Northern Europe had some wonderful rites and rituals. I myself like to mark the winter and summer soltice every year. I believe that Wicca is a modern attempt at recovering some those rituals.

It is a shame and a crime that when Christianity gained a foothold, it destroyed most or even all of the texts describing these rites.
 
Sarada said:
To celebrate the cycle/circle of life is a wonderful thing. The ancient tribes of Great Britain and Northern Europe had some wonderful rites and rituals. I myself like to mark the winter and summer soltice every year. I believe that Wicca is a modern attempt at recovering some those rituals.

It is a shame and a crime that when Christianity gained a foothold, it destroyed most or even all of the texts describing these rites.
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Not realy - the Druids had a oral tradition and didnt actually write there religous works down - atleast thats what I heard in a university lecture.

some of these cults still exist - they sometimes turn up at stonehenge when there is an excavation going on.
 
Sarada said:
To celebrate the cycle/circle of life is a wonderful thing. The ancient tribes of Great Britain and Northern Europe had some wonderful rites and rituals. I myself like to mark the winter and summer soltice every year. I believe that Wicca is a modern attempt at recovering some those rituals.
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I have to go with Einstein on this one:
"If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. "

I particularly enjoy gazing at the full moon. Shouldn't it be about full tonight?

The sun hasn't quite set here yet but I think it is... it was almost full and still waxing yesterday.
It is a shame and a crime that when Christianity gained a foothold, it destroyed most or even all of the texts describing these rites.
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yeah...
Exodus 22:18:
"thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"
Horrible.

I like "an it harm none, do as you will" better :D
 
Zafran said:
Not realy - the Druids had a oral tradition and didnt actually write there religous works down - atleast thats what I heard in a university lecture.

some of these cults still exist - they sometimes turn up at stonehenge when there is an excavation going on.
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Yes it appears that the Druids had an oral tradition, but I was not referring only to them. There were other pagan traditions that did use the written word as well.

Say for example the Norse Sagas. It is fortunate that these still exist in Iceland, because most Norse writings were destroyed in Continental Europe.
 
Islam, is a complete version which has roots in the Abrahamic faith, which have roots in paganism. Why is it most religions take about the oneness of all things, this is the core of religion,a belief that we are part of something beyond our imagaination.
Even Taoism talk about this concept, all aspect of of duality that exist in one concept.
We are manifestations of our creator in various forms.
Some call this the divine spark, other call it the inner light. all are practices that bring us closer to our creator.
Some may call this the higher consciousness.
there is a common theme, the more people accept this the easier it will be to deal with each other, so im lead to believe.
 
Greetings,

I'd refrain from speaking about Islam if the Islam you profess and practice doesn't fall within the circumscribes of the religion...
I don't believe you to be well versed in Islamic history, let alone its tenets.

all the best
 
soloqi said:
...Why is it most religions take about the oneness of all things, this is the core of religion,a belief that we are part of something beyond our imagaination.
Even Taoism talk about this concept, all aspect of of duality that exist in one concept.
We are manifestations of our creator in various forms.
Some call this the divine spark, other call it the inner light. all are practices that bring us closer to our creator.
Some may call this the higher consciousness.
there is a common theme, the more people accept this the easier it will be to deal with each other, so im lead to believe.
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I agree with you completely.

[/I]
 
and with that it is settled that 'soloqi's religion is akin to Hinduism with its pagan roots than Islam as conciliated by a like mind.. we hope to close this chapter with him changing his way of life to a more appropriate and allowing group..
 
I have no stock in religion, by the very word we create the lunacy of fanatics that call the will to god. Godliness or what God desires in in my heart and mind and soul. So long as everyday i become a better person this is gods will.
I follow a faith called Islam, And through older teachings I have come to believe that all faiths have a common theme, which is seem once you rid yourselves of social conditioning, asking questions and finding the answers out for myself.
And more and more do i find other people understand this, but its easier to talk then it is to understand written words.
 
You are free to follow the path of your choosing, and if that 'in your heart' is your calling, you are also free to dream up phrases of fanaticism and apply them to the party of your choosing.. that is your opinion...

Your opinion strays from Islam, and Allah swt warns us about following our whims in lieu of the straight path!


[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 53:28] And they have no knowledge thereof. They follow but a guess, and lo! a guess can never take the place of the truth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 53:29] Then withdraw from him who fleeth from Our remembrance and desireth but the life of the world.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 53:30] Such is their sum of knowledge. Lo! thy Lord is Best Aware of him who strayeth, and He is Best Aware of him whom goeth right.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE][SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
 
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if you follow your heart and not look for the rules set by Allah then you are no less than an Atheist. An atheist doesn't follow a scripture which orders him to do the right thing but of course if you're doind theology or in other words studying various religions of the world then you'll find one common statement in all and thats "God is one and only he deserves worship". Its absolute pity that people of various beliefs have completely ignored that part of their scripture and misinterpreted other verses and now worshipping things of their own manufacture.
 

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