Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^The way we pray, represents our unity as Muslims. And it's very important. If people of the same faith pray differently it would look disorderly. If a Muslim prays whole heartedly the way we are told, it brings a lot of peace. Whats more peaceful than literally submitting yourself to your Lord? I find it beautiful.

 

[MustafaMc]

According to Islam, is there any claim of a writing or revelation since the Quran revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as being inspired by Allah or being Allah's Word?

 

[Kashnowe]

^^The way we pray, represents our unity as Muslims. And it's very important. If people of the same faith pray differently it would look disorderly. If a Muslim prays whole heartedly the way we are told, it brings a lot of peace. Whats more peaceful than literally submitting yourself to your Lord? I find it beautiful.

ok i still disagree but for what its worth i find it beautiful too

 

[snakelegs]

cooloonka
if you're interested in the hadiths, you can read them here:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html
you can also search for a specific subject.
many of them are actually quite interesting and they fill in a lot of stuff that isn't clear in the qur'an.

 

[Kashnowe]

thanks. i truly do love learning all that i can about anything and everything. this subject matter is highly interesting to me.

i foudn this quote in the questions about judaism...thread

But the books of Islam and Christianity vehemently curse everyone in the world who disbelieves them although they did not demonstrate their proofs to the whole world.

i wonder if any of you christians or muslims would like to add your $.02 to that.

 

[barney]

thanks. i truly do love learning all that i can about anything and everything. this subject matter is highly interesting to me.

i foudn this quote in the questions about judaism...thread



i wonder if any of you christians or muslims would like to add your $.02 to that.

Well it's based on propergation of the respective religion. Both Islam and Christianity teach that the religion should be spread till their religion is "superior" or that all religion is for their deitey. Not all religions do this, I dont think Judism does and Bhuddism definatly dosn't. Bhuddism AFAIK is the only Religion to really grow significantly without evangilism, but theres a lot of grounds that it isnt specifically actually a religion.

I always liked the wiccan motto " as long as it doeth no harm ...do as you will"

(Not a wiccan by any sense of the word...but the idea is nice)

 

[Dhulqarnaeen]

Having read the Quran and other books about Islam, and having been on these boards a short period of time there are many things I have learned about Islam. Some I agree with, some I don't. Much I respect. A few things I am still leary of.

And then there are those things that I still don't fully understand, or at least don't understand the reasoning behind them. (Perhaps for some there is none; maybe it is just what is commanded.)

First, among the things I am curious about, is the role of music, or maybe I should say the absence of a role for music. Music plays an important part in the life and worship of both Christianity and Judaism. If Islam is the same message that would have been presented by all of the prophets, and music had such an important place previously in the practice of worship, why didn't those prophets condemn it? And since they didn't, why is it not allowed now? And yet, the call to worship itself sounds like a type of chant, isn't this a form of music?

First, I would like to ask you bro, what is your prove that music is allowed in Christian and Jews? :rollseyes (Kuu burhanakum inkuntum shodiqin), tell me your explanation from your religion (bibble or hadith of Jesus if those words exist) about music is allowed. Cause to us, EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEverything must be based with Quran dan hadith. And all question about Islam alhamdulillah we can find the answer in Quran and hadith .
And what do you mean a call to worship? You mean in Islam thats called "Adhan"? You should know bro, things which is totally forbidden in ISlam is NOT a music, but the tools of music. And its not like that with singing, singing is not totally forbidden in Islam. And singing can be without music. Rasulullah said "its not amongth us, someone who read QUran without melody". And its also ok with the call to worship/ adhan. But as long as not too much. If its too much melody in adhan, its just not fit to the sunnah.

But if we talking about musics intruments, then yes, those are haram, except "duff". What to call duff in english yee? :rollseyes I think its kinda drum. And why those intruments are haram? Cause like Quran said that Allah make human and jinn is JUST to worship Allah. And we work, and find money to afford our family is just an media (washilah) to worship Allah. And There are a lot of ways to show our worship to Allah, those are to obey all His orders and stay away from His forbidden things. And all of the explanations in worshipping Allah ALL were given by His messenger Muhammad shalallahu alaihi wasallam conpletely. And worshiping Allah can be with shalat, zikir, fasting, etc.
And our scholars said, by listening music, it can drive us to leave prayers to Allah. Someone who like music, they will use most of their time with listening music. And if they have free time, they will not choose to fill the time with reading quran, or fasting, or zikir, but they will choose to fill the time with listening music. And its really a waste of time. Also someone who have problems, or stress, then they will make music as their solutions. Its happened to me long time ago, even I almost being a singer and almost recorded into cassetes. Everytime I had problems, then I will locked my self in my room, turned on the music loud and sang along, and it made me felt lighter. When I had a guidance to learn more about Islam and then I knew music is haram, with all power I had I tried to leave music. And alhamdulillah after I leaved it Wallahi my life more peacefull. More more peacefull. And believe me, peacefull mind WILL NOT be reached with something which is forbidden, forever.
And also why music is forbidden? Cause we may not acting like christian and jews who like music so much, and they cant pray without music. And our prophets said "Whoever acting like non muslim, then theyre amonght them". Its an honor of being a muslim.
And also MUSIC can lead us to sins. Have you ever been in music show? when everyone very close to eachother, touching eachother, dancing together, and many times ended with having free sex. And its all started with the melody of music. So music is bad for us, for human. And not just for a muslim, but for human. Its just they just dont realize it.

Is it just in worship that music is not allowed? On the forums I hear people talk about music as if it is itself an evil thing? Yet I know that many Muslims enjoy music, that folk music is central to the lives of many people scattered around the world in nearly every country, and these include Muslims. The whirling dervishes of Turkey are supposedly a type of worship and are most certainly accompanied to music. Some people grow rich by marketing special types of music specifically to Muslims. So, many of these things just don't fit together for me.

Judge muslims by reading its hollybook and explanations from the messengers, and not from individual muslims. Thats more aproriate right? And Quran and hadith and also explnations from the scholars music is haram. And whats the lost of it? Will we die if life without music? Can we be poor if we work without music? Although many muslims ric because of muslim, thats not a prove that music bring goodness to humankind. Those pornstars also rich from what they do, can we say its a good job to do? :rollseyes Many mafia/ drugsdealer got rich and being a millionaire, but is it right?. The good result of somethings is not a prove that its right. Many muslims rich without music Music is useless. And like alcohol in Islam (khamr), Allah said in Quran theres profit of using/drinking alcohol, but the lost/unprofit is greater than the profit it self. Its the same with music, you can say a lot of happening that someone can rich because of music, and a growing of baby's mind can be helped with music, but still the lost and danger of music even greater than all the profit that its bring.
And to muslims, music can bring bad character such as "munafiq". They will leave zikr to Allah, they will lazy to pray and delay their prayers to Allah just because of music. And many happens, this music lover DIE with bad ending. They cant even say kalimatut tauhid. And they will be gathered in day here after wth the look of the monkey.

What is halal and what is haram in regards to music? What makes one halal and the other haram?

All that Allah and His messenger forbid for us to do, then That MUST BE bad for us, and everything they tell us to do, then IT MUST be GOOD for us. Like Quran said that Muhammad shalallahu alaihi wasallam sent down to allow everything which is good and to forbid everyhting which is bad. Walhamdulillah

 

[barney]

And also MUSIC can lead us to sins. Have you ever been in music show? when everyone very close to eachother, touching eachother, dancing together, and many times ended with having free sex.
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I must have been to over 400 Gigs and nothing happened. I must be doing something totally wrong here.

 

[barney]

Onto the topic.

What Quranic verses or Hadith point towards Imagry of people (escpecially the prophet) being unlawful?

How does this apply to TV?

 

[Hemoo]

Onto the topic.
What Quranic verses or Hadith point towards Imagry of people (escpecially the prophet) being unlawful?

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=10452&ln=eng

and the full text :

The reason why there is no picture of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ​

Question:
why is it that there isn't a picture available of the prophet Muhammed[pbuh] anywhere in the world?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah. ​

Islam came to prevent all means that may lead to shirk or the association of others in worship with Allaah. Among these means is the making of images, so sharee’ah forbids making images, and curses the one who does that, and a strong warning is issued to the one who does that. It was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah the Mother of the Believers that Umm Habeebah and Umm Salamah mentioned a church that they had seen in Abyssinia, in which there were images. They mentioned it to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he said: “Those people, if there was a righteous man among them and he died, they would build a place of worship over his grave and put those images in it. They will be among the most evil of creation before Allaah on the Day of Resurrection.” (narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Salaah, 409).
It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came back from a journey and I had placed a curtain of mine that had pictures on it over (the door of) a room of mine. When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw it, he tore it and said, ‘The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allaah’s creation.’ So we turned it (the curtain) into one or two cushions.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Libaas, 5498).
It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: “I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘The people who will be most severely punished on the Day of Resurrection will be the image-makers.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Libaas, 5494).

So how could he grant permission to make a picture of him? Hence none of the Sahaabah dared to make a picture or image of him, because they knew the ruling that doing so was haraam. ​

Allaah warns against exaggeration, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion”​

[al-Nisaa’ 4:171]
And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned against doing anything that may involve exceeding the limits concerning him (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He said: “Do not exaggerate about me as the Christians exaggerated about the son of Maryam, for I am just a slave, so say ‘The slave of Allaah and His Messenger.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, Ahaadeeth al-Anbiya’, 3189).
Imaam Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab wrote a chapter entitled “Maa jaa’a ‘an sabab kufr Bani Adam huwa al-ghulw fi’l-saaliheen (What was narrated stating that the reason for the kufr of the sons of Adam was their exaggeration concerning the righteous).”, in which he said: “In al-Saheeh it is narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said, concerning the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):
‘“And they have said: ‘You shall not leave your gods, nor shall you leave Wadd, nor Suwaa‘, nor Yaghooth, nor Ya‘ooq nor Nasr’ (these are the names of their idols).’
[Nooh 71:23]
– “These were the names of righteous men among the people of Nooh. When they died, the Shaytaan inspired their people to set up stone altars in the places where they used to sit, and call them by their names. They did that but they did not worship them, until those people died, then the knowledge was forgotten and they were worshipped.”
Ibn al-Qayyim said: “More than one of the salaf said: ‘when they died, the people started to frequent their graves, then they made statues of them, then as time passed they started to worship them.” (Fath al-Majeed Sharh Kitaab al-Tawheed by ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Hasan, p. 219)
For this reason there are no pictures of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), because he forbade doing that, lest it lead to shirk.
The implication of the testimony that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is that we believe in him and in the message that he brought, even though there are no pictures of him. The believers do not need a picture of him in order to follow him. The description of him that is given in the saheeh reports means that we have no need of his picture. Among the descriptions of him (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that have been narrated are the following:
1- He (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was the most handsome of face of all people.
2- He had wide shoulders.
3- He was neither tall nor short (of average height).
4- He had a round face with a ruddy complexion.
5- His eyes were intensely black.
6- He had long eyelashes.
7- He was the Seal of the Prophets, the most generous of people in giving, he was the most forbearing and content of all people, he was the most sincere in speech of all people, he had the gentlest nature of all people and was the most easy-going with others. Those who saw him suddenly stood in awe of him and those who mized with him came to love him. Those who described him said they had never seen anyone like him before or since.”
See Sunan al-Tirmidhi, al-Manaaqib, 3571 and other books of Sunnah which give descriptions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
Undoubtedly the believers wish that they could have met the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Hence it says in the hadeeth narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The people most loved by me among my ummah will be those who would come after me, but every one amongst them would have the keenest desire to catch a glimpse of me even at the expense of his family and his wealth.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Jannah wa Sifat Na’eemihaa, 5060). Undoubtedly love of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and following him are the means of being brought together with him in Paradise. Part of loving him (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is seeing him in a dream, which means seeing him in his real form. It was reported that Abu Hurayrah said: “I heard the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘Whoever sees me in a dream will see me when he is awake, for the Shaytaan cannot take my form.’” Abu ‘Abd-Allaah said, Ibn Seereen said: this applies if one sees him in his true form. (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, al-Ta’beer, 6478).
And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

 

[Grace Seeker]

Dear Dhulqarnaeen,

I'm sorry, but you're about 29 pages behind. The questions I posed have been asked and answered many times, but I thank you for your contributions as well.


I don't have any proof that you would accept for my views, as my views lay outside of the Quran and thus so do my "proofs". Suffice it to say, that using those books that I accept as authoritative and the standards of interpreting them that are generally accepted, there is nothing stated in them which would outlaw music. Though anything can be turned by the devil and corrupted for evil purposes, and no doubt this has been done with some music, I don't think we can make a blanket statement about all music.

You of course are free, since you use a different authority than I, to believe otherwise. I grant you your freedom to live thusly and hope you will grant me my freedom to live as I understand as morally acceptable.

 

[- Qatada -]

i wonder what God will do with a person who just can't make up their mind about what to believe. what if they die tomorrow, uncertain, just can't seem to grasp any particular faith. heard about christianity, not sure tho, heard about islam, but still uncertain.........................gee the thought of it makes me feel +o(

Allaah, the Almighty the Compassionate says:


“O My slaves, all of you are astray except those whom I guide, so ask Me for guidance, and I will guide you. O My slaves, all of you are hungry except those whom I feed, so ask me for food and I will feed you. O My slaves, all of you are naked except those whom I clothe, so ask Me for clothing and I will clothe you. … O My slaves, if the first of you and the last of you, your humans and your jinn, were to stand on a single plain and ask of Me and I were to give each one what he asked for, that would not cause any loss to Me greater than what is lost when a needle is dipped into the sea.”

Narrated by Muslim (2577).

 

[Malaikah]

But the books of Islam and Christianity vehemently curse everyone in the world who disbelieves them although they did not demonstrate their proofs to the whole world.

There are so many things wrong with this statement, I don't know where to begin.

Number 1- A Muslim should never curse someone for not believing in Islam, we should pray that Allah swt guides them to the truth. The Prophet used to ask Allah to guide even those people who used to oppose him and hurt him. Only in very rare cases can we ask Allah to not guide a non-believe, as it is not up to the laymen to decide, rather it should be left to the scholars/people of knowledges.

Number 2- the proofs are demonstrated. The Quran is the first of them. If you don't read it that is your fault, we can't force anyone to read it. There are also all the eye witness accounts of miracles performed by the Prophet, the fulfilled prophecies, the scientific miracles in the Quran (yes, there are scientific miracles in the Quran before anyone tries to deny it. Sure, some people exaggerate them, but they are still there). Also, one thing that can't escape the notice of anyone who actually bothers to read the Quran is how many times God appeals to the people to use their intellect and their reason, and to see the proofs that are all around them. Even the biogpraphy of the Prophet alone can be seen as evidence of his prophet hood.

Number 3- Not everyone is doomed for not being a Muslim. People who had never properly heard of Islam, or didn't have the means to learn about it, can't possibly be held accountable for something outside their ability. There will be judged according to their situation.

 

[Kashnowe]

i thought this was interesting.

New Testament Romans 1:18-31
"18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

"
it seems television is condemned in christianity too.....
this to me hints at the evils of movies and television. it definately seems to me like it could have been written about present day.

 

[barney]

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=10452&ln=eng

and the full text :

The reason why there is no picture of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ​

Question:
why is it that there isn't a picture available of the prophet Muhammed[pbuh] anywhere in the world?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah. ​

Islam came to prevent all means that may lead to shirkSheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

Thanks for the answer. I can understand not wanting to portray images of the prophet and personally I see some value in this, as christians (in my opinion) can get a little bit too devoted to images of Christ, (when nobody has a clue what he looked like).

Reading your post , It appears to me that Mohammed was talking about images that were Idolised. So sticking a poster of a Ferrari sports car on the wall would be Idol worship. (or would it? if you diddnt pray to the car for guidence or intercession?) Ordinary everyday images are not neccessarily Idol worship. Is this why TV is allowed in Islamic states, (apart from the talibani afganistan, (somalia too?))

Would a mirror constitute a Image? (self worship?)

 

[جوري]

rather than addressing your post bit by bit-- I'll ask you to read a little about Abudllah ibn Sab'a and the start of Shi'ism... also in regard to punishment Ali (RA) inflicted on him and as a result led many to idol worship. (people didn't always have the level of sophistication) we have today in terms of what it means to "idol worship" --
Prophet Mohammed PBUH was obviously trying to avoid for Islam what happened in Christianity... for the most part successful, though not completely...

one minor note -- a (Ferrari) is an inanimate object.... (has no life) you can obviously paint forests, trees of whatever else-- or pieces of the body at a time for the sake of learning science!

I was in the National Gallery in Washington once checking out an Islamic exhibit-- when I saw a painting of Nude Harem adorned in a golden frame with Allah's name and prophet Mohammed PBUH-- this is exactly the sort of thing the ruling came down to avoid...

one should strike a balance, not think of the most outrageous situations to pose for questions!

peace!

 

[barney]

Coolonka: Billy Graham loved telly, It made him millions. Robert Tilton likewise!

Purest: Yup a Idol is generally inanimate. I suppose people who have pictures of Britney Spears on their walls would be a better example. Idol worship in religious terms obviously refers more to worship of statues , golden calfs, rocks/ meteorites etc.

 

[جوري]

I am talking about things with a "soul" -- clearly a Ferrari doesn't have one, unless a la mode of a Disney movie?... if you have doubt as to a ruling on a particular subject.. might I humbly suggest you ask a scholar?( link included) Also a picture is different than a painting... one you are simply capturing an image that G-D has created, whereas in another you are attempting to recreate it in art or sculpture for whatever purpose...
http://www.islamicedfoundation.com/askscholar/askscholar.htm
Most of us here give you an answer based on ijtihad... short of a few members our answers aren't for the most part scholarly..
peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

i thought this was interesting.

New Testament Romans 1:18-31
"18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

"
it seems television is condemned in christianity too.....
this to me hints at the evils of movies and television. it definately seems to me like it could have been written about present day.

The problem with that sort of interpretation is that you are taking the present day context and applying it to a first century document. That is called eisegesis and nearly always leads to bad interpretation -- whether doing so with the New Testament or any other document. To properly understand this text, you must first understand it like the 1st century audience would have, and then subsequent to that seek to apply it to your life. But begin with understand in its context, then interpretation and last application for today -- not the other way around. Image meant something slightly different to Paul than what you think of in terms of images on a TV or movie screen and it is more than just the simple fact that those technologies had not been invented yet.

 

[barney]

The problem with that sort of interpretation is that you are taking the present day context and applying it to a first century document. That is called eisegesis and nearly always leads to bad interpretation -- whether doing so with the New Testament or any other document. To properly understand this text, you must first understand it like the 1st century audience would have, .

How the heck are people supposed to interpret 4000,2000 or 1400 year old documents in the light of anything but the present day context? We are not 4000 years old and a few things have changed since then. Things have changed drastically in the 39 years i've been around. if I try to apply a story from 1973 to present day, it's awkward. Russia isnt pointing nukes at us, punk was invented and the schoolchilden are not having midnight feasts in dormitorys at bording schools or lashings and lashings of ginger beer on woodland picnics.

To try and apply ancient values to a developing species leads to nutty results. I could start dressing in robes and slaughtering goats but i really dont think my mindset would change much.