Things in Islam I am curious about...

Woodrow said:
I feel a lot of misunderstandings occur over connotations of words and the semantics used. there is difference in the way people of different cultures will perceive statements made in a language that is not their native tongue.

Celebration is one of these things. I believe the concept of celebration differs very differently among native English speakers and those who come from non English speaking heritage. Celebration is a term widely used in English and it often has no reference to a religious practice. westerners celebrate, waking up to a new day, national pickle week, ground hog day, the first day of anything, Friday nights, the birth of a child, a win at foot ball, a good pay check, last day at work, moving to a new home, not having to move, arrival of mail, sending mail, the list is endless.

Some western people consider every meal a celebration. So to carry things to extreme we are partaking in the Western custom of celebrating a meal every time we eat. I doubt if any of us would view eating as an innovation. I believe intent and ritual or lack of ritual will determine if what we do is a celebration, in our concepts of celebration. I know that is an extreme, but I point that out hopefully to give an example of what some of the things are that can be called celebrations in the English Language, yet not meet our own definition of a celebration.

So the question of Thanksgiving becomes: "Is it a celebration by our concept of celebration or is it more in line with our concept of sharing a meal with family and friends."
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Thank-you, Woodrow. If celebration has a more specific sense within Islam, I was not using it that way, but the way that Woodrow used it here.

To "celebrate" Thanksgiving, is to take advantage of the day off that most people have and use it as an opportunity to gather as a family. It involves no act of worship, nor any religious ritual that one would not otherwise be engaged in as part of one's daily activities. For Christians, that typically involves a prayer before the meal (Muslims would call this dua, not rituallized prayer) in which we give God thanks for the food, one another, and any other blessings in our lives that one might feel inclined to include in giving thanks. I would think that a Muslim household would gather in much the same manner, grateful to Allah for his blessings in their lives, whether they would express it the same way that I would is not important, but such a gather because they wanted to be together to give thanks to Allah together would be, in my way of thinking, a celebration of Thanksgiving, with thanks being given to Allah for his care and providence in their lives.

With this new, and hopefully better understanding, and in light of the previous comments made regarding bid'ah, would this type of thanksgiving celebration still be seen as wrong for Muslims?
 
Well here is a new one on me:

Another poster, a Muslim, made mention of something he called the "dawah stall". Can anyone explain this terminology to me? I'm familiar with the term "offering dua" (I think of them as prayers of supplication for other -- do I have that right?), but I don't know what he might have meant by a "dawah stall".
 
salaam/peace;

Grace Seeker said:
dawah stall". Can anyone explain this terminology to me?
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not sure ...let me try :?. From a stall invitation to the truth i.e. Islam is given :sunny:


I'm familiar with the term "offering dua" (I think of them as prayers of supplication for other --
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also for oneself ...best time for offering dua is when u bow down to God ...i.e do the sujud/ prostrate
 
to grace seeker, yes it still would be. gathering around a meal and offering thanks to god is exactly why this would be considered Bid'a since It's a rtiual that would be repeated every thanksgiving. Also standing in silence for a minute for a deceased person, standing to 'honour' your country's ananthem would be considered Bid'a aswell since you would do them every time they occur thus becoming a ritual. Now, mourning and honouring your county are not wrong but doing them in that specific way is .Now, today I was reading a paper by a certain scholar in which he defined what a Bid'a is and so on, so I'll try to convey his words as best as I can a . A Bid'a can occur in that practice for which the shari'ah-law derived from the qur'an and sunnah- has defined limits for, either in time,place,number,direction,description or state of being.
And , for a thing to be considere Bid'a there are three rules:
1. Any changing of that which is limited by increase,decrease,changing time,place,state,etc in a way that is ot permitted by allah is a Bid'a.
2. As for the intention -niyya- of excusive worship, by which it means a person intends to achieve nothing by the act other than to worship, if that intention is to do an act or leave it, whether it be an actual act of worship -prayer,fasting...- or not, in such a way that this leaving or doing the act becomes exclusive worship, such a thing is a Bid'a. An examplewould be to sing songs as an act of worship , or to wear certain types of clothes as an act of worship and so on as an eaxample of doing. An exaple for leaving could be leaving what happens between a man and his wife at all times as a way to get closer to god, unless of course it is for a good reason such as health problems etc, then its not a Bid'a.
3. Immitating an exclusive act of worship, this happens in two ways:
a. setting limits to actions that are not worship,like being silent for a minute in remembrance of a dead person,nationalistic holidays,visiting the unknown soldiers monument etc.
b. directly making a normal act into an act of worship.

ok, now I think this might be enough, and heres the link for anyone who reds Arabic http://almoslim.com/rokn_elmy/show_article_main.cfm?id=2547
 
alcurad said:
to grace seeker, yes it still would be. gathering around a meal and offering thanks to god is exactly why this would be considered Bid'a since It's a rtiual that would be repeated every thanksgiving. Also standing in silence for a minute for a deceased person, standing to 'honour' your country's ananthem would be considered Bid'a aswell since you would do them every time they occur thus becoming a ritual. Now, mourning and honouring your county are not wrong but doing them in that specific way is .Now, today I was reading a paper by a certain scholar in which he defined what a Bid'a is and so on, so I'll try to convey his words as best as I can a . A Bid'a can occur in that practice for which the shari'ah-law derived from the qur'an and sunnah- has defined limits for, either in time,place,number,direction,description or state of being.
And , for a thing to be considere Bid'a there are three rules:
1. Any changing of that which is limited by increase,decrease,changing time,place,state,etc in a way that is ot permitted by allah is a Bid'a.
2. As for the intention -niyya- of excusive worship, by which it means a person intends to achieve nothing by the act other than to worship, if that intention is to do an act or leave it, whether it be an actual act of worship -prayer,fasting...- or not, in such a way that this leaving or doing the act becomes exclusive worship, such a thing is a Bid'a. An examplewould be to sing songs as an act of worship , or to wear certain types of clothes as an act of worship and so on as an eaxample of doing. An exaple for leaving could be leaving what happens between a man and his wife at all times as a way to get closer to god, unless of course it is for a good reason such as health problems etc, then its not a Bid'a.
3. Immitating an exclusive act of worship, this happens in two ways:
a. setting limits to actions that are not worship,like being silent for a minute in remembrance of a dead person,nationalistic holidays,visiting the unknown soldiers monument etc.
b. directly making a normal act into an act of worship.

ok, now I think this might be enough, and heres the link for anyone who reds Arabic http://almoslim.com/rokn_elmy/show_article_main.cfm?id=2547
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So saluting, be it of a flag or of a higher ranking officer, would be Bid'a. Would exchanging handshakes as the normal form of greetings between businessmen?
How about a husband to ritualistically kisses his wife good-bye when he leaves for work in the morning?
 
Idris said:
What is the benefit in music? To me it is just a waste of time, and with music, most of the time there comes too many bad side effects with it.
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ever listened to humming of birds early in morning?
ever listened to flowing water of streams?

music is wide spread in nature. If "good" music doesn't appeal u, may be u r artificial.

u asked benefit of music.
Ask Allah why HE gave Prophet Dawood(pbuh) musical wind-instrument to sing Psalms.

Ask sofis of subcontinent how they attracted many to Islam by singing sufi poetry on drum(dhoel).

Ask Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) why his companions used to sing war songs while on expedition.

Ask Aisha(ra) why she the narrator of many Ahadees & wife of Prophet & mother of muslims, allowed 2 girls to sing in Prophet's house on Eid's day.
 
zaki.aumeerudy said:
One of the general rule of fiqh shariah is that everything that leads to haraam is haraam (if u read much about islaam u should know that)
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Yes indeed Haraam is Haraam even is it's Eid day.


& Mother of Muslims Aisha(ra) allowed this "Haraam"(according to u) in house of Prophet Muhammad(saww). While she is also narrator of many many Ahadees. U think she was un-aware that music was haraam!!!!!! & later scholars found out somehow!!!! & now u also know it, But she was ignorant.???

& when Abu Bakar(ra)
tried to stop them Prophet of ALLAH rebuked him. So Prophet didn't know music was haraam & later scholar figured it out.


Music leads to inter mingling of man and woman
e.g music leads to dancing .when u dance with a girl u should touch her and thsi also leads to zinaa/adultery which may lead to baby born without marriage and lead to....... the chain is long .I Hope my explanation is not difficult
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& That's the ONLY uses of music that u know.!!!!
 
Malaikah said:
Nasheeds are only allowed provided they do not contain music, and the content of the nasheed is good.


This hadith is pretty explicit:

It was reported in a saheeh hadeeth from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “In my ummah there will be people who allow fornication/adultery (zina), silk, wine and musical instruments [ma’aazif]. Some people will stay at the side of a mountain, and they will have flocks of sheep. When a poor person comes in the evening to ask them for something he needs, they will say. ‘Come back to us tomorrow.’ Then during the night Allaah will destroy them by causing the mountain to fall upon them, while He changes others into apes and swine. They will remain in such a state until the Day of Resurrection.’”

(Reported by al-Bukhaari in al-Saheeh mu’allaqan, 51/10.)​
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In blue is wrong translation of word used in Arabic.

word used is "al-hir-ra" الْحِرَ & it doesn't mean zina or aduletry.
 
haha! you iz gonna get a neg rep + a tirade (if not a fatwah issued against you as well from some net-moolah here)
 
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This thread was never intended to engage in a permament discussion of music. Anybody care to address these questions?

Grace Seeker said:
So saluting, be it of a flag or of a higher ranking officer, would be Bid'a. Would exchanging handshakes as the normal form of greetings between businessmen?
How about a husband to ritualistically kisses his wife good-bye when he leaves for work in the morning?
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:sl:
Grace Seeker said:
So saluting, be it of a flag or of a higher ranking officer, would be Bid'a.
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To a higher ranking officer? I'd see that as a sign of respect; in the case of a flag it'd most likely be considered nationalism - not bid'a

Would exchanging handshakes as the normal form of greetings between businessmen?
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As long as it is male to male and female to female. Though this can prove difficult depending on the circumstance.

How about a husband to ritualistically kisses his wife good-bye when he leaves for work in the morning?
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No harm in hopping on the love train every mornin'. ;)
Rituals in and of themselves are not neccesarily wrong under Islam; it varies from case to case. If it's a ritual where say you'd start moonwalking everytime the azhaan is heard, then yeah that's probably bad. A kiss to your wife every morning? How can that possibly be a bad thing?! (Though, a kiss from your wife would feel even better...I'd assume :p)
 
A Muslim soldier tried to keep the flag flying despite having his arms chopped off.

A flag is not sign of tribal-racism since a Muslim country would be made up of many tribes fighting as one.

this country hating trend was started by money hungry Mullahs in pay of non-Muslims and is often revived by similar people and also by cowardly liars who don't want to enlist.

in distant past (victorious) Muslim Armies were regimented according to their tribes. Since no tribe wanted to be responsible for Muslim deaths and defeat they fought till the fell to avoid the shame of defeat.

but now these moolahs have worked their evil magic and made it a sin to mention race tribe or nation, we go from defeat to more humiliating defeat
 
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I think that, despite previous posts, I still don't understand Bid'a. Anyone care to break it down to about a 5th grader's (or less) level of understanding?
 
BIDAH (INNOVATIONS in Allaah's religion)

Grace Seeker said:
I think that, despite previous posts, I still don't understand Bid'a. Anyone care to break it down to about a 5th grader's (or less) level of understanding?
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Bid'a >> invent something new and call it part of religion
Any type of innovation. Though innovations in worldly matters are acceptable, innovation within the religion is seen as a sin in Islam
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This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion
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Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours [Islam] that is not a part of it, will have it rejected
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Linguistically Bid'ah (innovation) means 'a newly invented matter'.
The Sharee'ah definition of Bid'ah is: "A newly invented way [beliefs or action] in the religion, in imitation of the Sharee'ah (prescribed Law), by which nearness to Allaah is sought, [but] not being supported by any authentic proof - neither in its foundations, nor in the manner in which it is performed." Al-I'tisaam of ash-Shaatibee (1/37).

 The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Every innovation is misguidance and going astray" Reported by Abu Daawood (no. 4607), at-Tirmidhee (no. 2676) and it is saheeh. Ibn Hajr authenticated it Takhreej Ahaadeeth Ibn ul-Haajib (1/137).

And he (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also said: "… and every innovation is misguidance and all misguidance is in the Hellfire." Reported by an-Nasaa'ee (1/224) from Jaabir bin Abdullaah and it is saheeh as declared by Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmoo' ul-Fataawaa (3/58).

The Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also warned against the People of Innovation, from befriending, supporting or taking from them saying: "Whoever innovates or accommodates an innovator then upon him is the curse of Allaah, His Angels and the whole of mankind." Reported by Bukhaaree (12/41) and Muslim (9/140)

And in his footsteps, we find the Noble Companions and the Taabi'een after them warning from the danger of innovations upon the Ummah, its people and their unity, since it is innovations which have divided the Ummah and split it asunder.
Ibn Abbaas (d. 68H) said: "Indeed the most detestable of things to Allaah are the innovations." Reported by al-Bayhaqee in as-Sunan al-Kubraa (4/316)

Ibn Umar (d. 84H) said: "Every innovation is misguidance, even if the people see it as something good." Reported by Abu Shaamah (no. 39)

Ahmad Ibn Hanbal once said, "The greatest sinner (faasiq) from the Ahl-Sunnah Wal Jamaah is better than the most pious person from Ahl-"Bid'ah".

'Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood, said, "Follow and do not innovate, for you have been given that which is sufficient and every innovation is misguidance." Reported by Abu Khaithamah in Kitaab Ul-'Ilm (no. 540) and declared saheeh by Shaikh al-Albaanee.

Abdullah Ibn Abbaassaid, "When "Bid'ah" is created then the Sunnah dies and this continues until that "Bid'ah" is living and the Sunnah is dead."

Al-'Irbaad ibn Saariyah, , reports that the Prophet said, ".... I have left you upon clear guidance. Its night is like its day. No one deviates from it after me except that he is destroyed." Reported by Ahmad, Ibn Maajah (no. 43) and al-Haakim. It is declared saheeh by Shaikh al-Albaanee in as-Saheehah (no. 937).

Al-Marwazee reports in as-Sunnah (no. 95) that 'Umar ibn 'Abd Allah-'Azeez said, "There is no excuse for anyone, after the Sunnah, to be misguided upon error which he thought was guidance."

Hasan Ibn Attiya, one of the Ta'baeen
said, "When the people accept the "Bid'ah" , Allah removes the Sunnah from among them and doesn't return it until the day of judgment."

One of the early scholars, Al-Barbahaaree, one of the companions of Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, said, "Beware of "Bid'ah", because every "Bid'ah" started out as something small and resembling the truth and people were fooled by it and followed it until it became bigger and bigger and were trapped by it and it took them out of Islaam."

Shaykh al-Barbaharee (D. 329H Rahimahullah) Also states: May Allah have mercy upon you. Know that the Religion is what came from Allaah, the Blessed and the Most High. It is not something left to the intellect and opinions of men. Knowledge of it is what comes from Allaah and His Messenger, so do not follow anything based upon your desires and so deviate away from the Religion and leave Islam. There will be no excuse for you since Allaah's Messenger explained the Sunnah to his Ummah and made it clear to his Companions and they are the Jamaa'ah and they are the Main Body, and the Main Body is the truth and its followers.

​
This matter has also been indicated by Imaam Maalik (rahimahullaah) in a reported saying of his that ought to be recorded in golden ink. And it is his saying: "Whosoever introduces into Islaam an innovation, which he deems is good, then he has claimed that Muhammad has betrayed (the trust of conveying) the Message. Read the saying of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic: 'This day I have completed your Religion for you, and I have perfected My favour upon you, and I am pleased with Islaam as a Religion for you.' [Surat-ul-Maa'idah: 3] So whatever was not (part of) the Religion on that day, is not (part of) the Religion on this day. And the last part of this ummah (nation) will not be rectified, except by that which its first part was rectified by."

Ibn Taymiyyah has a nice passage in one of his books showing that: "In fact, the kufr of Jews and Christians is because of "Bid'ah". They introduced new things into the religion and those things took them completely away from the true message of Musa (Moses) and Isaa (Jesus) Alaihumma Salam".

So just as the condition of the Arabs during the Days of Ignorance (Jaahiliyyah) was not rectified except by the coming of their Prophet Muhammad with revelation from the heavens - which aided them in this world and which will save them in the next - then the foundation that the good Islaamic well-being must be set upon in this time, is nothing else but the return to the Qur'ân and the Sunnah.

In spite of this, this matter needs a little bit more of articulation, due to the vast number of Islaamic groups and parties that are present on the arena and which claim for themselves to be upon the way by which Islaamic society and Muslim rule can be actualized.​
Imaam Ibnul Qayyim al-Jawziyyah The war against the innovators is greater than the war against the Mushrikeen.
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NoName55 said:
Bid'a >> invent something new and call it part of religion
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Great. That's pretty simple.


Now help me to understand the distinction here:

In saying that Muslims could not celebrate a national but non-religious holiday like Thanksgiving, I was told...
alcurad said:
gathering around a meal and offering thanks to god is exactly why this would be considered Bid'a since It's a rtiual that would be repeated every thanksgiving. Also standing in silence for a minute for a deceased person, standing to 'honour' your country's ananthem would be considered Bid'a aswell since you would do them every time they occur thus becoming a ritual. Now, mourning and honouring your county are not wrong but doing them in that specific way is .
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Yet I'm told that saluting is not Bid'a. Is it because even though it is a ritual, it is not part of a religion? Yet, Thanksgiving is not part of any specific religion either. Likewise the concept of a "moment of silence" is specifically because some would have no belief or concept in any god, but may still wish to pay respect to a person's life.

I'm confused as to how it applies in some circumstances but not others.

Are Muslims not to pray and give thanks to Allah on specific occassions such as at meal times, but only at specific hours? Surely, this couldn't be Bid'a (in my mind), but I have a feeling I'm going to be told that it is, as it isn't a practice specified by Muhammad.

I'm jumping ahead of myself, as I realize I may be incorrect with regard to that last assumption, but does this mean that only Muhammad can say what are things worth giving thanks to Allah for. It would be wrong to give thanks to Allah for healing a person, or at least if one always gave thanks for healing because then it would become ritualistic would it not?

That's a serious question. I cannot imagine it would be wrong to give thanks for Allah's blessings, but it appears that if one always does, then it becomes a ritual and is considered Bid'a unless specifically instructed by Muhammad. What is and is not considered Bid'a in this case just seems to jump all over the place without any consistancy to it that I can see other than that the word came from Muhammad, so it is as if a Muslim today is not to think for him/herself. Is that it?
 
but if you remember last thanksgiving where brother Woodrow explained it way better than any attempt I can make as I am a mere child compared with him(plus he actually knows what it is whereas I am going by hearsay). If not I'll search to find his reply for you
 
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