Things in Islam I am curious about...

[crayon]

Grace Seeker- Muhammad pbuh told us to say these two dua's every meal time, not just on specific days.

Before eating: "In the name of Allah and with the blessings of Allah I begin (eating)"

After eating: ""All praise belongs to Allah, who fed us and quenched our thirst and made us Muslims"."
or
""All praise belongs to Allah who filled our stomachs and quenched our thirst, rewarded us and gave us plentiful".
or
""All Praise belongs to Allah who granted this meal, (which I received) without my power or effort"."

We say these 3 times a day. It reminds us of thanking Allah far more than once a year on a specific day of the year.

As for your other question, it only becomes a ritual if it is repeated every year. So if you were to thank Allah for healing a person on a January 11th every single year, for example, that would be a bid'a. But if it's at the time when they get better, or whenever you think of thanking Allah for their health, that's perfectly fine.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Thanks for you explanation.

I'm going to keep pushing this, not to be contentious, but because I just still don't get it.


First, with regard to Thanksgiving, I too give thanks at every meal. But I also look for other occassions to give thanks. For instance, every year I celebrate the anniversary of my marriage to my wife, the anniversary of my birth and of the birth days of others who are significant parts of my life. And every year I gather we my family and we give thanks for the blessings of God's providential care in our lives. It isn't the only time in the year I do that, in reality I do it several times a day, every time I gather to worship, and at many other points during the year, but the annual Thanksgiving gathering is just one more celebration of that and an excuse to gather our family together. It doesn't seem to me to be any more of an innvoation than celebrating a birthday or an anniversary is, as it is just the anniversary of the first harvest that saw the Pilgrims through their first winter. So, unless you think these other anniversary celebrations in which we also give thanks are wrong, what is it about Thanksgiving that is wrong?


I also don't understand what makes annual celebrations Bid'a. I know people who annual go and decorate the graves of their loved ones. Some do it more often, having several events each year for which they do this. I make it a custom to every year take my mother out for dinner on Mother's Day. Of course I take her out on other occassions too, but I try to make sure that I set that day aside for her. Likewise, I try to set a day aside each year to spend with my son. I know some families that have an annual family reunion with all sorts of rituals attached to it in the form of what foods they like to bring, games they play, even sometimes honors they confer on one another for who came the farthest or had the "best"/"worst" year. My father attends a yearly reunion of the men he served with in service. Each year the local high school has a celebration in honor of the students who are graduating, and another to honor them for awards they have received during the year. These events often take a moment to give thanks to God who has blessed us with another year or who we understand has helped us to accomplish or survive the things that we have been through during the year. It sounds to me like you are saying that all of these are Bid'a because they are not previously specifically proscribed forms of worship.

And quite frankly, I think that is nonsense, and that Muslims do many of these things all the time as well, and simply because they are part of their routines and culture they don't recognize them as being the same as those of someone else's culture that is termed Bid'a.

Let me give an example. I know one Muslim community, that every year (interestingly enough they choose late November, the same weekend as Thanksgiving) to have a feast at the local mosque celebrating their experience of the grace of Allah. It is held immediately after Friday prayers. And is a wonderful time of family, friends, fellowship, and food. OIther than the fact they they have an eclectic assortment of foods from throughout the world, rather than turkey and dressing on the table, you couldn't tell the difference between it and a traditional American Thanksgiving dinner. All the rituals of the gathering, giving thanks, eating and conversation are just the same.

This same mosque also does an annual dinner in which they try to help the wider non-Muslim community in which they are placed better understand Islam. They started it 9/11/2002 and have continued it since. They begin just before Friday prayers with a time of explanation of what they are doing for their guests. Then they invite people to stay and observe, if they wish even to join in alongside them, and afterward they have a big dinner again. Now it isn't the meals that are the issue, but the fact that they have annualized and ritualized the way they do these things. They give the praise and honor to Allah of course, but it surely seems like an innovation to me. Why is this not considered Bid'a but these other things are?

 

[sur]

This thread was never intended to engage in a permament discussion of music. Anybody care to address these questions?

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
So saluting, be it of a flag or of a higher ranking officer, would be Bid'a. Would exchanging handshakes as the normal form of greetings between businessmen?
How about a husband to ritualistically kisses his wife good-bye when he leaves for work in the morning?

No problem with saluting.


shaking hands will be delt according to culture.
In Afghanistan it would be a problem, coz it'd arouse Afghani.
In USA it'd be OK, coz ppl there don't get aroused just by hand-shake.


Do kiss ur spouse as mush as u want , Just NOT in public, rather in privacy.
This is evident by Quranic verse to which I don't remember the referrence, I'll try to look it up. InshAllah.

 

[sur]

haha! you iz gonna get a neg rep + a tirade (if not a fatwah issued against you as well from some net-moolah here)

I couldn't reply ur pm, coz i'm limited member.

A Muslim soldier tried to keep the flag flying despite having his arms chopped off.
A flag is not sign of tribal-racism since a Muslim country would be made up of many tribes fighting as one.

this country hating trend was started by money hungry Mullahs in pay of non-Muslims and is often revived by similar people and also by cowardly liars who don't want to enlist.

in distant past (victorious) Muslim Armies were regimented according to their tribes. Since no tribe wanted to be responsible for Muslim deaths and defeat they fought till the fell to avoid the shame of defeat.

but now these moolahs have worked their evil magic and made it a sin to mention race tribe or nation, we go from defeat to more humiliating defeat

Right on target.

There's no harm in tribes/casts as long as we don't make them a source of pride etc. Like this sai-yad is supperior cast etc. Prophet didn't have a son. So NO one belongs to Prophet's cast. Sai-yad thing is just fraud.

 

[crayon]

Grace Seeker- "So, unless you think these other anniversary celebrations in which we also give thanks are wrong, what is it about Thanksgiving that is wrong?"

Celebrating birthdays and wedding anniversaries are also considered bid'a. :]

About the mosque's celebration you talked about: this is my opinion on it. I think they figured instead of having muslims celebrating thanksgiving, they would have a similar celebration in the mosque, for the same reason, but putting an islamic twist on it, for want of a better expression. I disagree with that, though. It's like some muslims decide to have a birthday party. They don't call it that, however, but somehow, out of all the days of the year, it seems to coincide with their birth date. It's a birthday, but not called that. As the feast held at the mosque is a thanksgiving feast, just not called that. Personally, I disagree with that, and would consider it bid'a.

Just as a note, it may seem that since it's a mosque it follows islam to a T, that's not neccessarily the case. Especially in the west, there's become this trend of "modern" mosques. I've even heard of mosques that pray in the opposite direction of the qiblah.

 

[Muslim Woman]

.... I've even heard of mosques that pray in the opposite direction of the qiblah.

what ?????? how is that possible ???

There is a verse in Quran that says us to face towards holy Kaaba while praying . So , how is it possible to face opposite qiblah ? I hope , what u heard is wrong / rumour.

 

[Woodrow]

what ?????? how is that possible ???

There is a verse in Quran that says us to face towards holy Kaaba while praying . So , how is it possible to face opposite qiblah ? I hope , what u heard is wrong / rumour.

I believe the confusion with that comes from the size of the USA. All Mosques do point out the closest direction to the Qiblah, which in NY would be NNE while in Hawaii it is NW. In some parts of the world it would be due east and in some it is due west. The people are facing in opposite directions, but they are facing the direction that is closest.

 

[Grace Seeker]

As explained at the mosque I attended, even though Saudi Arabia is east and a little south of the USA, the closest direction is not to go SE, but rather, along a line known as a "Great Circle Route", the sort of route that airlines fly to make for the shortest distance between any two places on the globe. For most places in the USA that involves actually facing north to some degree as what an airplane would fly between the USA and Saudia Arabia would be a polar route, with the exact degrees east or west of due north determined by one's longitude.

 

[snakelegs]

As explained at the mosque I attended, even though Saudi Arabia is east and a little south of the USA, the closest direction is not to go SE, but rather, along a line known as a "Great Circle Route", the sort of route that airlines fly to make for the shortest distance between any two places on the globe. For most places in the USA that involves actually facing north to some degree as what an airplane would fly between the USA and Saudia Arabia would be a polar route, with the exact degrees east or west of due north determined by one's longitude.

i don't approve of that! :uuh:
seriously, i had never considered that possiblity. obviously, i have a pre-airline, reptilian brain.

 

[NoName55]

.... I've even heard of mosques that pray in the opposite direction of the qiblah.

what ?????? how is that possible ???

There is a verse in Quran that says us to face towards holy Kaaba while praying . So , how is it possible to face opposite qiblah ? I hope , what u heard is wrong / rumour.

draw a dot on a round object then draw arrows pointing to it and see if they face same spot regardless of facing east west north south and all points in between

 

[Grace Seeker]

i don't approve of that! :uuh:
seriously, i had never considered that possiblity. obviously, i have a pre-airline, reptilian brain.

from the moment we realized we lived on a round ball, rather than a flat pancake, people have been using the concept of "Great Circle Routes". Notice that ocean liners between New York and London don't go straight east and west, but circle up north near Greenland. That is why the search for the NW passage was so important centuries ago.

Check it out using this Great Circle Route Calculator.

The problem isn't your reptilian brain, it is that you are thinking of the world as being flat like a map, but it isn't. You can do a simple experiment that will illustrate the theory just by getting out a basketball, a couple of markers, and a piece of string or thread. Image a north and south pole and an equator on your basketball. Now, about halfway between the equator and one of the poles put a dot. Then in the same hemisphere, but the other side of the ball put another dot. Now, take your string and see how long a piece you need to strecth around your ball from one dot to the other, going around, parallel to the equator. Next, take the same string and measure the distance between your two dots by going across the top through or near the pole. Is there an even shorter distance you can find than the one that goes across the top?

Unless you have the dots relatively near to each other, or one in the southern and one in the nothern hemsiphere, the shortest distance is going to be the one that passes near the pole rather than paralleling the equator. And the farther your dots are from the equator the more true that will be.

So, here is something to think about, what direction would you go if taking the shortest route from Mexico City, Mexico to Calcutta, India?
What direction would you go to take the shortest route from Buenos Aries, Argentina to Perth, Australia?

 

[snakelegs]

from the moment we realized we lived on a round ball, rather than a flat pancake, people have been using the concept of "Great Circle Routes". Notice that ocean liners between New York and London don't go straight east and west, but circle up north near Greenland. That is why the search for the NW passage was so important centuries ago.

;D

i never thought of myself as a backward, primitive person before.... oh my! :-[
i am in shock!

 

[Grace Seeker]

;D

i never thought of myself as a backward, primitive person before.... oh my! :-[

You said it. I didn't!! :giggling:

 

[snakelegs]

i said it because it's true! i had never even considered the possibility that muslims in the u.s. would face north instead of east (well, i guess south east)!
it should be forbidden! :giggling: big bad bid'ah!
i wonder if jews in the u.s. face north when they pray too? (where is an islamicboard rabbi when you need one?)
oh dear!

 

[Omari]

Grace, that's a very interesting post actualy . But I wonder if you have considered the fact that the earth isnt exactly like a basketball by comparison. A basketball is almost perfectfly round while the earth is an oval "egg" shape...

 

[Grace Seeker]

Grace, that's a very interesting post actualy . But I wonder if you have considered the fact that the earth isnt exactly like a basketball by comparison. A basketball is almost perfectfly round while the earth is an oval "egg" shape...

You haven't seen the basketballs in my kid's toy box.

Sure the earth is not perfectly round. As a matter of fact ithe diameter from pole to pole is shorter than the diameter at the equator. The difference is small: the equatorial diameter is about 12,700 kilometers, and the pole to pole diameter is only about 40 km shorter. (A fraction off of spherical by less than 1/3 of 1%.)

What's your point? That the illustration I provided snakelegs won't work or is invalid? It remains valid and it certainly does work. In fact it is simple enough a child can understand it.

As to the earth being egg-shaped. Well, that depends entirely on the egg that one chooses. Certainly it is not long and thin like the pyriform eggs of birds which lay their eggs on the rocky outcroppings of cliffs. It also isn't very close to the shape of a chicken egg. What it technically is shaped like is an oblate sphere like the near perfectly round egg of the Great Horned Owl.

 

[Omari]

In fact it is simple enough a child can understand it.

lol im only 16 years old

And I posted to ask wether it would make a difference or not, and the calculation that you set up for me were really close to the calculation that I decided to do. My mistake

What it technically is shaped like is an oblate sphere like the near perfectly round egg of the Great Horned Owl.

Or a chicken from my country (afghanistan) lol!

 

[Grace Seeker]

Or a chicken from my country (afghanistan) lol!

Really? Do chickens in Afghanistan lay nearly round eggs? See, I learned something new today. Most chicken eggs I have seen are noticably more round at one end and not quite pointy on the other.


And check out that Great Circle Route Calculator website I provided in post #75 above, http://andrew-gray.com/dist/index.en.html , you'll have lots of fun with that.

 

[Omari]

lol no, the chickens in Afghanistan are not victims of deviation, belive me. I just decided to throw in somthing that would ammuse the topic lol

P.S. If you live around zellers, I think they are selling basketballs that can withstand nails :|. (Just for your kids toybox)

 

[Woodrow]

Speaking from a navigational stand point the math used for the surface of the earth is simple spherical trig, the degree of error in ignoring the oblate factor is insignificant except in situations where a fraction of a meter would be of concern.