Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

do you know of any archaeology done there or carbon dating that sort of thing or is it treated more like legend than fact?

I have not heard of any archaeology survey . We believe because Quran and hadith say so.

some related photoes and video links.

The Station of Ibrahim - the site where Ibrahim (PBUH) stood while he built the Ka'bah

The sa'y (or "running") commemorates Hagar's (PBUH) search for water to quench Ishmael's (PBUH) thirst. She ran back and forth seven times between two rocky hillocks, al-Safa and al-Marwah and found the sacred water known as Zamzam

http://www.ummah.net/hajj/pics/index.html

Inside the Kaaba



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilUS_9Nb_GM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWzJXUAQQEE

The building is opened twice a year for a ceremony known as "the cleaning of the Kaaba." This ceremony takes place roughly fifteen days before the start of the month of Ramadan and the same period of time before the start of the annual pilgrimage.

 

[Muslim Woman]

:wa:

.. Teachers of Islamic sciences have the highest of respect and considered "Inheritors of prophets".

thanks bro for sharing , I totally forgot about this.

"If anyone travels on a road in search of knowledge, God will cause him to travel on one of the roads of Paradise. The angels will lower their wings in their great pleasure with one who seeks knowledge. The inhabitants of the heavens and the Earth and (even) the fish in the deep waters will ask forgiveness for the learned man.

The superiority of the learned over the devout is like that of the moon, on the night when it is full, over the rest of the stars. The learned are the heirs of the Prophets, and the Prophets leave (no monetary inheritance), they leave only knowledge, and he who takes it takes an abundant portion.


The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "God, His angels and all those in Heavens and on Earth, even ants in their hills and fish in the water, call down blessings on those who instruct others in beneficial knowledge." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 422

http://www.islamawareness.net/Knowledge/knowledge_article0001.html

 

[MMohammed]

This link will surely help you:
http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/music.html
And music isn't necessary or very peace-giving, singing is.That's why expert Quranic reciters are recommended to recite with beautiful(you can understand) voices.
Prophet(P.B.U.H) said:
"Beautify the Quran with your voices"

 

[Supreme]

1) bar Islamic sources? You're on your own then.
2) Teachers of Islamic sciences have the highest of respect and considered "Inheritors of prophets" if they have sufficient knowledge, and earn a status and rewards for their knowledge. Teachers of worldly knowledge that are useful to people are equally respected. Teachers of useless matters are condemned for wasting their and people's time.
3) Islam has used scientific references and referred to scientific discoveries in showing the truth of its message, it has no qualms against science or using beneficial modern technology. No there are no opposing factions, not even within deviated sects.

Thank you for these answers.

What would a useless subject be considered as? Geography? Electronics?

Also, if Islam itself isn't opposed to science, why then are there Muslims today who refuse to accept scientific theories such as evolution which have stacks of evidence to support them?

 

[جوري]

accept scientific theories such as evolution which have stacks of evidence to support them?

Most people oppose 'evolution' and by that we mean speciation for scientific reasons not religious ones:

مَا أَشْهَدتُّهُمْ خَلْقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَلَا خَلْقَ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَمَا كُنتُ مُتَّخِذَ الْمُضِلِّينَ عَضُدًا {51}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 18:51] I made them not to witness the creation of the heavens and the earth, nor their own creation;


we don't know how God created us to speak about it.. however, if 'scientists' have unlocked the keys of the universe, then it is best to go about it in a meaningful scientific fashion and not the shove throat zealot style!

for further discussion on the matter, refer to our numerous evolution threads!

all the best
[/SIZE]

 

[Sampharo]

Thank you for these answers.

What would a useless subject be considered as? Geography? Electronics?

Of course not. These are always useful and fundamental in many fields of civilization advancement. What is meant as useless knowledge is frivalous knowledge that would never have a use, would mostly then take the mind away from what is useful and waste time, or would lead them to sin or confusion. It's like tarrot cards, fung shui, or learning trivia.[qu

Also, if Islam itself isn't opposed to science, why then are there Muslims today who refuse to accept scientific theories such as evolution which have stacks of evidence to support them?

That's an oxymoron. Evolution has "stacks of evidence" AGAINST it and has been scientifically disproven, and that is why muslims today are refusing to accept such nonsense. Most of them already didn't accept it before these evidences were shown, because they already learned that the Quran had the 100% accuracy record in scientific information that no other book or civilization or academy can claim, so they learned to trust it before fallible and assumptuous humans.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

... if Islam itself isn't opposed to science, why then are there Muslims today who refuse to accept scientific theories such as evolution

Any theory / concept / knowledge that go against holy Quran can not be accepted as true by Muslims . As already stated by sis sky , many non-Muslims also don't believe in evolution theory as it goes against their faith .


God created human in perfect shape . First Prophet Adam pbuh was not like an animal ; he knew how to talk , he was more knowledgable than angels in heaven.

 

[Hugo]

Of course not. These are always useful and fundamental in many fields of civilization advancement. What is meant as useless knowledge is frivalous knowledge that would never have a use, would mostly then take the mind away from what is useful and waste time, or would lead them to sin or confusion. It's like tarrot cards, fung shui, or learning trivia.

I am not very keen on deciding that a bit of knowledge is frivolous in the way you describe and why does it have to be useful, why can't it just be beautiful. One only has to look at mathematics to see how things that were interesting but had no application later become hugely important - for example Boolean algebra. As I have said before and others before me we must not make our own puny mind the measure of all things.

That's an oxymoron. Evolution has "stacks of evidence" AGAINST it and has been scientifically disproven, and that is why muslims today are refusing to accept such nonsense. Most of them already didn't accept it before these evidences were shown, because they already learned that the Quran had the 100% accuracy record in scientific information that no other book or civilization or academy can claim, so they learned to trust it before fallible and assumptuous humans.

Where is the 'stacks of evidence', I am not aware of it and my understanding is that DNA has once and for all shown evolution to be fact. To say you don't accept it is fine if it makes you happy but that alone will not make it sensible or rational. If God chose to make us that way then so what, its our souls that matter as far as faith goes not our DNA and it does not prevent us from worship or doing good works.

We have been through this before but it is in my view foolish and perhaps dishonest to treat the Qu'ran as a scientific text book par excellence since no one as far as I know has uncovered a new scientific principle from it and in every single case I have studied it is always an interpretation of what in any other circumstance would be simply understood as it is written. So two questions:

1. Are you saying that interpretations of, in this case, supposed scientific miracles in the Qu'ran are infallible?
2. Just on the point of evolution - is it a dogma that you cannot be Muslim and believe in evolution?

 

[Hugo]

Salaam/Peace

Any theory / concept / knowledge that go against holy Quran can not be accepted as true by Muslims . As already stated by sis sky , many non-Muslims also don't believe in evolution theory as it goes against their faith .

God created human in perfect shape . First Prophet Adam pbuh was not like an animal ; he knew how to talk , he was more knowledgeable than angels in heaven.

I see your point but it seem untenable because everything we might read in the Qu'ran has to be interpreted and I cannot see that any interpretation can stand infallible for all time especially if its a scientific one since such interpretations did not come from your founding fathers but are modern - so if you or me see a video on Utube with a modern scholar are we then to take that as an absolute interpretation that stands for all time?

In the case of Adam I cannot see that you MUST interpret it as fact and from a teaching point of view or understanding Gods message I cannot see it makes any difference whether its is fact or an allegory - surely the important thing is to hear what God is saying, the message in the story?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

... I cannot see that any interpretation can stand infallible for all time especially if its a scientific one

Many modern / scientific / medical theroies change from time to time . Anything that Quran stated will be considered as absolute true to Muslims. Those who love to take science as the criteria to judge something and there is an interesting debate.

Related video ;


Quran, Bible and Science
Dr Zakir Naik vs Dr William Campbell

http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/videos/quran_bible_and_science_naik_and_campbell.htm

I did not watch video , supposed to be good

Science proves Quran is from Allah
www.youtube.com

if you or me see a video on Utube with a modern scholar are we then to take that as an absolute interpretation that stands for all time?

Pl give me an example.

 

[Sampharo]

As I have said before and others before me we must not make our own puny mind the measure of all things.

What a jewel of an advice, yet it is just amazing that you are actually doing this right now after Supreme asked the questions and you immediately jumped in... with your measurement.

Seems you and other non-muslims are the ones who keep saying "why is that? why is this? It shouldn't be this way..." about Islamic law or shariah or hadith or wisdom, basically in the process making your "mind the measure of all things". I would say following one's own advice would prove much more constructive to one's conversation and hypothesis, don't you think?

Where is the 'stacks of evidence', I am not aware of it and my understanding is that DNA has once and for all shown evolution to be fact.

You should keep up to date then if you're interested. Evolution is dying even amongst non-monothiests who are neither muslim, christian, or Jew, and many of the disproving evidence have been more than presented publicly, there's even enough on this forum in many evolution threads. Like Skye said, it has been discussed in many areas so go and look.

Also your suggestion to be christians yet believe in evolution is already a scar upon your logic, because how would you believe in a church and its bible and then think that the fundamental biblical stories of Adam and Eve and the rise of man to be false and that we all were just apes?

End of the day, your claims might be that you don't accept/understand/think you can be convinced by the evidence against evolution, it sure is your perogative, but I am just pre-empting here that we wouldn't indulge the process if you start analyzing those evidence on your own and bring your opinions to this discussion, considering that the World at large is quickly adopting them along with scientific institutions that believe they are sound. So I suggest we keep to the point and not go off on tangents.

We have been through this before but it is in my view foolish and perhaps dishonest to treat the Qu'ran as a scientific text book par excellence since no one as far as I know has uncovered a new scientific principle from it

Grossly uneducated and uninformed statement and I think enough threads here have demonstrated the fallacy of such claims.

So two questions:

1. Are you saying that interpretations of, in this case, supposed scientific miracles in the Qu'ran are infallible?
2. Just on the point of evolution - is it a dogma that you cannot be Muslim and believe in evolution?

1- There is nothing interpretive in the precise description of microscopic embryo development, or the inability to breathe in the higher layers of the atmosphere.
2- In actuality the disproven theory of evolution IS the dogma it appears, for you're suggesting that people HAVE to believe in this nonsense even when they know better. Your question is like trying to say: "Is it a dogma that you can't be informed about truth, and still believe in false fabrications?"

End of the day you seem to come across like a very underinformed individual, "unaware" about the evidence and "cannot see" or understand the reference of Adam, uninformed about the scientific information already settled and acknowledged the World over, etc. etc... yet you're trying to convince me that informed people are idiots for knowing the truth and not subscribing to these backwards thoughts of the past that turned out false already.

Moreover, you are completely unaware that you are the one who should be addressing his own contradictions in believing in this ignorant theory yet still calls himself christian. You really are confused.

 

[Hugo]

Salaam/Peace

Many modern/scientific/ medical theroies change from time to time. Anything that Quran stated will be considered as absolute true to Muslims. Those who love to take science as the criteria to judge something and there is an interesting debate.

Related video ; Quran, Bible and Science
Dr Zakir Naik vs Dr William Campbell

http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/videos/quran_bible_and_science_naik_and_campbell.htm


Science proves Quran is from Allah
www.youtube.com



Pl give me an example.

Of course things in science change from time to time that is in the nature of science because we are continually expanding its frontiers. Surely you not arguing that is a bad thing or some how degrades science?

I understand that you might decide to take whatever the Qu'ran says as true for all time but what I was asking about was its interpretation. Is there only ONE possible interpretation and somehow Muslims know it already? So is Dr Naik speaking with absolute authority in these videos and you must accept what he says?

Let us take the Bee example in the 16th Chapter and the whole argument rests on understanding that a female Bee is being referred to but there is nothing in the Arabic that make this clear and people who use the argument interpret grammatical gender as if its sexual gender - so which interpretation do we take; one that gives us Gods message or pone in which we had to wait centuries to find?

One question, if you notion that this kind of thing proves that God is the author of the Qu'ran then it must also be true that if I say read Moby Dick and spot a scientific miracles there then that book also must be from God, if logic of this kind is to work it cannot be a logic that only applies to the Qu'ran

 

[Supreme]

Thanks for answering my question Gossamer, Sampharo and Muslim Woman, they were satisfactory answers. Let us not turn this into an evolution debate.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam / Peace

So is Dr Naik speaking with absolute authority in these videos and you must accept what he says?

No but his debate / lecture is interesting and thought provoking .

if I say read Moby Dick and spot a scientific miracles there then that book also must be from God,

That's funny . Then all science books should be considered as holy ;D


We don't beleive that Quran is true just because it has some sciencific facts. But it's amazing that a how book that came in to this world more than a thousand yrs ago has many verses on science , medicine , history and predictions .

The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will be victorious within three to nine years.

The affair is Allah's from beginning to end. (Qur'an, 30:1-4)

These verses were revealed around 620, almost 7 years after the idolatrous Persians had severely defeated Christian Byzantium in 613-14. In fact, Byzantium had suffered such heavy losses that it seemed impossible for it even to survive, let alone be victorious again

THE PRESERVATION OF PHARAOH'S BODY

We brought the tribe of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh and his troops pursued them out of tyranny and enmity. Then, when he was on the point of drowning, he [Pharaoh] said: "I believe that there is no god but Him in Whom the tribe of Israel believes. I am one of the Muslims." (Qur'an, 10:90)

http://harunyahya1.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p2_01.php#2

 

[Grace Seeker]

Hope this explains to you the concept of salvation and why still deeds are counted and important.

It does. But I have to say that you provided a much more detailed account than those who addressed this before you. Thank-you. I appreciate that. (Just as I appreciated your thoughtful response in the "certainty" thread.)

I also note that as you began to fill in some of the blanks that others had left, that the picture you describe of first faith in Allah, and then confirming that faith by actions that give evidence of that faith and in the end the balance having more to do with the quickness of one's admission to paradise and less with whether one is ultimately accepted by Allah or not sounds very similar to my ears to what I hear Catholics describe with regard to first coming to faith and receiving the promises of God, but needing to work out one's salvation through good works, which become the determining factor when balanced against one's sins one how long one has to spend in purgatory before acceptance to heaven.

Would you concur that there are a large number of similar elements (minus of course differing views of the role of Jesus Christ) in these two accounts of salvation? I wonder, if you feel versed enough in Christian theology to comment, beyond how Islam deals with the person of Jesus, what other major differences would you note in our respective soteriologies?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Most people oppose 'evolution' and by that we mean speciation for scientific reasons not religious ones:

Huh? I generally didn't read those evolution threads. Somehow I was under the (apparently) mistaken impression that most Muslims had no problem with Darwin's theories. I thought Muslim scholars agreed that the earth was formed long ago and that life arose on earth through natural processes, and not ex nihlo creation. In fact, isn't one of Allah's names Al Bari? And doesn't that mean, "the evolver"? So, I thought that as long as it was understood, that Allah is the one who started the process and directed it, that there was no disagreement between the creation of most life forms and a macro-evolutionary worldview. The only disagreement being that most Muslims contend that there is a special unique creation of Adam and Eve.

 

[Grace Seeker]

That's funny . Then all science books should be considered as holy ;D

My grandfather (an agriculturalist) and great-grandfather (an author of botany texts) would have considered them just that. ;D

 

[Italianguy]

Thanks for answering my question Gossamer, Sampharo and Muslim Woman, they were satisfactory answers. Let us not turn this into an evolution debate.

To late:hmm:

 

[Grace Seeker]

In the Quran, there are 2 catagories of Prophet, the "Nabi" and the "Rasul". The Prophet who brings a new "Law" is a "Rasul", while a Prophet who teaches wisdom but does not bring any new "Law" is "Nabi".

Which of these two categories would Jesus belong to? Adam? Abraham? Lot? Moses? David?

 

[Nora.]

Jesus is Rasul