Things in Islam I am curious about...

So, what is halal and what is haraam actually has changed over time? Or are you only saying that it may change from one prophet to the next?
 
So, do Muslim believe that morality changes? If so, what causes those changes? Is it cultural or what?

If morality doesn't change, then why would what is halal/haraam change?
 
Grace Seeker said:
So, do Muslim believe that morality changes? If so, what causes those changes? Is it cultural or what?

If morality doesn't change, then why would what is halal/haraam change?
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Salaam

simple answer Allah swt decides. The last prophet was Muhammad pbuh who brought the last revelation. So Morality isnt going to change - the prophet pbuh also said that the Muslim Ummah is the last Ummah (nation of believers).

so morality wont change in the future as Allah has given the final messege.

peace.
 
Some of the principles that scholars use in fiqh (jurisprudence) are:

- "Necessity makes the unlawful lawful"

- “That which was made permissible for a reason, becomes impermissible by the absence of that reason.”

Thus, halal/haram may change according to necessity. For instance, if you were dying of hunger and the only food available for you to eat was pork, then that pork would become halal for you until the harm has been averted, after which it would immediately become haraam again.
 
Osman said:
Some of the principles that scholars use in fiqh (jurisprudence) are:

- "Necessity makes the unlawful lawful"

- “That which was made permissible for a reason, becomes impermissible by the absence of that reason.”

Thus, halal/haram may change according to necessity. For instance, if you were dying of hunger and the only food available for you to eat was pork, then that pork would become halal for you until the harm has been averted, after which it would immediately become haraam again.
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That part actually makes some sense. It does make morality relative, and I have some concerns because I value absolutism with regard to morality. But how I understand you mean this is equivalent to Jesus' statement, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." which I've always interpreted to mean that behind the Law is a higher order at work that the Law is only a tool to direct us to. That which it is directing us to is God himself. On occassion, it isn't that the law is wrong, but that keepiing the law in too strict of an interpretation can lead to accomplishing the wrong that the law was actually seeking to avoid.

How am I doing?
 
Zafran said:
Salaam

simple answer Allah swt decides. The last prophet was Muhammad pbuh who brought the last revelation. So Morality isnt going to change - the prophet pbuh also said that the Muslim Ummah is the last Ummah (nation of believers).

so morality wont change in the future as Allah has given the final messege.

peace.
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Maybe I should have put my question in the past tense. Does Islam believe that what is haraam and what is halal is the same today as it has always been? (Save unique situations such as the examples of emergency situations that Osman gave above.)
 
Grace Seeker said:
Maybe I should have put my question in the past tense. Does Islam believe that what is haraam and what is halal is the same today as it has always been? (Save unique situations such as the examples of emergency situations that Osman gave above.)
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salaam

what has been halal and haram is based on what Allah swt has commanded and what Allah swt has forbade the people eg the sabbath.

http://www.readingislam.com/servlet...kAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1123996015448

in other words people are tested by Allah swt differently based on the test Allah swt gave to them at the time.

peace.
 
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Grace Seeker said:
On occassion, it isn't that the law is wrong, but that keepiing the law in too strict of an interpretation can lead to accomplishing the wrong that the law was actually seeking to avoid.

How am I doing?
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That's absolutely spot on. There are times when we must bear in mind the goals of the Shari'ah. The bigger picture, if you will. Another principle of jurisprudence is that "A greater harm is eliminated by means of a lesser harm" which I think would also apply to my example.
 
:sl:
The concept of sharia is to keep justice and security in society first and foremost.

Sharia is therefore more akin to a parental or autocratic system (as opposed to say a democracy or dictatorship) in that it the laws are there for the betterment of society.

However, as sharia comprises of not only civil and criminal law, but also animal welfare, charity and economics it is therefore best implemented as a complete system as opposed to simply the civil (or criminal) law aspects.

As a complete system, sharia is the best available on Earth since all the aspects work together to achieve one goal: Justice and security within society.
 
If sharia governs how much you give and when to a charity- it is no longer charity.

Sharia is not the universal answer-One's societies evils is not necessarily anothers- homosexuality and 2 consenting adults, marriage of grown men to 6 year olds

The punishments are generally too severe- stoning or lasing the rape victim, honor killing of the victim, 4 witnesses needed if women

If one religious group Christians and Jews has to pay and another Muslimsdoes not- that is unjust. You know that special tax.
 
Follower said:
If sharia governs how much you give and when to a charity- it is no longer charity.
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What I meant was charity is a core pillar of both sharia and Islam. And with that aspect alongside the others helps to create the perfect system.

Sharia is not the universal answer-One's societies evils is not necessarily anothers- homosexuality and 2 consenting adults, marriage of grown men to 6 year olds
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Homosexuality = no benefit to society.
The issue of marriage has been sufficiently dealt with: minimum age is after puberty. There is no issue or point being made here.

The punishments are generally too severe- stoning or lasing the rape victim,
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There is no punishment in sharia for the victim of a rape.

honor killing of the victim,
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Honour killings are haram (forbidden) in Islam.

4 witnesses needed if women
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4 witnesses regardless of gender FOR ADULTERY NOT RAPE.

If one religious group Christians and Jews has to pay and another Muslimsdoes not- that is unjust. You know that special tax.
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Muslims pay more taxes in a sharia state. Non-muslims pay a lot less taxes (even jizya tax [that special tax] isn't much and that goes to funding the military!).

You really should stop visiting hate sites and instead purchase this book on sharia. It's only £12.75 (including P&P).
 
yes there is a point here.

Does homosexuality hurt society when it is between consenting adults?

I have a few homosexual neighbors and they make really good neighbors, sharing and carng- mow the lawn for you when your mower breaks down, keep their homes and gardens in good condition, allow me to follow my religion of choice, follow the laws of the land, etc.

"There is no punishment in sharia for the victim of a rape. " Why are women punished in Islamic countries for being raped?

Are you saying that in countries where there is sharia law there is no underage marriage, honor killings? I have read that the punishment if there is punishment is so minimal, just a few months, much less then if you steal LOL!! What is going on in Jordan with all the honor killings, why hasn't it been stopped as Jordan is an Islamic country?

I think cutting off hands for the crime of theft and death for leaving Islam is a bit severe?
 
Are you saying that in countries where there is sharia law there is no underage marriage, honor killings? I have read that the punishment if there is punishment is so minimal, just a few months, much less then if you steal LOL!! What is going on in Jordan with all the honor killings, why hasn't it been stopped as Jordan is an Islamic country?
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There isnt a single country on planet earth that has sharia. If you have a problem with Jordon contact the authorities of Jordan and tell them about it. :)
 
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Follower said:
yes there is a point here.

Does homosexuality hurt society when it is between consenting adults?
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Name me one benefit of homosexuality that is not present in hetero.

I think cutting off hands for the crime of theft and death for leaving Islam is a bit severe?
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Both are maximum punishment and both require a trial...in a court room. There are a lot of specifics involved that tbh I don't have time to teach you

I will however link you to the appropriate threads so you may gather the required level of knowledge:
Apostacy.

For cutting off hands:
1) The item stole has to be worth a certain amount (last time I checked, it had to around $3+)
2) It cannot be food.
3) If the item is given back, no punishment is carried out
4) The theif has to be sane, adult and muslim (hudd/harsh punishments only apply to muslims)
5) Mens and actus reas has to be established
6) You have to convince the judge.

There are some other criteria that has to be met but I cannot remember them all off the top of my head.

Any more Qs?
 
Grace Seeker said:
No doubt some music can lead to lewd behavior, but I think it is a stretch to say that such activity justifies the prohibition. If that was legitimate rationale, why are there not similar prohibitions against books, magazine, movies that likewise cause people to do lewd behavior? There
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Allah says in the Quraan:

Verily, those who love that indecency should spread among the believers deserve a painful chastisement in the world and in the Hereafter. Allah knows, but you do not know. (24:19)

According to the commentary of this verse, Allah prohibited the advertising and spreading of immorality, indecency, and lewdness in a Muslim socity in any form (songs, music, erotic stories, attractive pictures of women and couples, plays, films/movies, mixed gatherings, mixed schools, mixed offices, etc).
 
aamirsaab said:
For cutting off hands:
1) The item stole has to be worth a certain amount (last time I checked, it had to around $3+)
2) It cannot be food.
3) If the item is given back, no punishment is carried out
4) The theif has to be sane, adult and muslim (hudd/harsh punishments only apply to muslims)
5) Mens and actus reas has to be established
6) You have to convince the judge.

There are some other criteria that has to be met but I cannot remember them all off the top of my head.
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I think Ansar states them all in this post. :)

Now let us all stop derailing Grace Seeker's thread!
 
aamirsaab said:
Sharia is therefore more akin to a parental or autocratic system (as opposed to say a democracy or dictatorship) in that it the laws are there for the betterment of society.
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What's the difference between a 'parental' type system and a benevolent dictator/enlightened absolutist?
 
Azy said:
What's the difference between a 'parental' type system and a benevolent dictator/enlightened absolutist?
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Dictators/enlightened absolutionists usually have negative connotations. Parental types tend to have much nicer ones. That's why I said what I said before :p.

But if you want a more serious answer: What I was getting at is the laws in a sharia state aren't supposed to be implemented in a dictatorial way, but in a parental form. That is to say: they are to benefit the society as opposed to benefiting the ruler (tends to occur in dictatorships).
 
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