Things in Islam I am curious about...

As usual you have nothing to say but insults. It is not alleged 21,000 I electronically counted them so if there is any hypocrisy it is yours and your alone. You typically have no arguments and and invariably rely on dogma. Is this the Islamic way, blindness.

I don't think I have insulted you at all, as usual I have merely highlighted you for the under-educated forum gadfly that you are.. in fact if you had something substantial you'd begin countering the alleged '210000' essay rather than finding multitudes of ways to deflect from your constant failures.. No blindness in this world could possibly be greater than those foolishly heading to the abyss for frank idolatry and paganism while seeking equally moronic source that don't stand a litmus test when the pedal is put to the metal!

I will not dignify an answer to anyone who thinks slavery is good and to be welcomed as you do - you bring shame on this board and Islam but no doubt you would happily post happy snaps of slaves on your web site

lol I find that funny.. one should expect to see an active crusade on your part to withdraw your troops and express disgust at the abominations your armies have done and currently do in the occupied parts of the world before you express and as usual so tongue in cheek dismay at a hypothetical situation oh pithy phrase..

It is a shame all you have to hold on to are quotes of dead or silly people as if you have complete intellectual bankruptcy.. which let's face it you do!


all the best
 
Are you saying that the transmission of the Qu'ran was a single and triumphant progression from one truth to the next with not a falter or shudder anywhere along the way? If so you do not seem to know your own history as to how haphazard it all was - mind you we cannot be all that certain as the various stories don't always agree. When it comes to the text itself there are dozens of interpolations which again points to uncertain compilation - I can give examples if you wish. Coupled with that there was not a single eyewitness other than the prophet of Islam to any of the revelations, no one saw the messenger and no one heard the messenger.
Indeed a triumphant progression from one truth to the next.. you seem to know a different history than the rest of us and that is yours to keep in the dark crevices of the web which you frequent to' gain knowledge'
as for 'eye witness' or not, again I remind you that there is more to purchasing a book and bragging of your purchase than to share an ISBN and mere titles.. pls don't come dispense with your moronic pearls in that fashion we are so accustomed to.. if you have any before and after to share with us then pls bring it forth or shut up!
further if I were to even play along with your erroneous conclusion there were no eye witnesses and no one came forth to claim credit for the style of the Quran and it so happens no one has been able to imitate it, challenge it, or falsify it.. and the prophet left us with two very different styles of text that which he taught in sunna and that which is the miracle of the Quran.. seems the onus is on you to prove what you are setting out to prove rather than dispense with your school boy observation?

None of this means we discard the book but it does mean we need not invent a whole structure of perfection when it is not necessary or justified. So a serious question, in Islam is the accepted dogma that if a single flaw can be found your whole faith must necessarily crumble?
That is your own personal desires and inane conclusions which the only explanation I have for is your desire to placate yourself over why your own beliefs are so inferior and unsupportable! .. I have challenged you to bring a flaw and you have failed and you'll fail again. A book that alleges to be from God should amongst other things be flawless..


all the best
 
Last edited:
What you are saying here is that any answer YOU give must be accepted without a second thought, this is not quibbling it is trying to see if there is any substance in what you say.
And therein lies the difference. Substance is subjective, and you seem to be sticking to what appears to be your "measure" of "substance". If your measure of substance is a god that can die, our measure of substance is an eternal, immortal God. If your measure of substance is rules that can be turned on their head from one day to the next, our measure of substance is rules that stand the test of time. If your measure of substance is a book with various human authors, with different versions, our measure of substance is a book that is 100% God's word, unchanged by any human.

I do not mean to insult your faith by this, but merely to point out that what you consider to be logic and substance seems to be tainted by your faith, rather than being objective. True seekers of knowledge put aside any pre-conceived notions they may have, or moulds that they may be in, and open their hearts. They don't quibble and argue each time they get an answer they don't like.

So because YOU have explained it I must accept it? Is that the way Islam works? If any Muslim explains anything those who hear it must accept it?
If you don't like the answer given to you, then I'm afraid that is tough. Asking the same question repeatedly to the same person despite them already having answered it the same number of times, really isn't going to miraculously and suddenly produce a different answer. If you want another answer, then please post a reply along the lines of: "I am not happy with the above given answer, please could somebody else provide me with a different answer", and if anybody has the burning desire to answer your question, they will.

Is this the Islamic way, blindness.
So I guess all those people that embrace Islam each year do so out of blindly following? They suddenly become blind and realise that Islam is the way for the blind and that thus they should follow it?

No, ask the reverts. Most say they embraced Islam after reasoned research and appreciating the sheer logic of Islam compared to other religions.

I take your point but how can one learn deeply without question and probing. We cannot assume that those who post here, including me, are experts so their answers must be accepted without question. You say its debate but I say it is more like cross-examination.
We don't need any cross-examination, as we are not putting forth our religion for anybody to examine on our behalf and to let us know if what we are following is correct or not, and neither do we need approval from anyone, nor do we have a need to prove it to anyone. The facts speak for themselves.

Are you saying that the transmission of the Qu'ran was a single and triumphant progression from one truth to the next with not a falter or shudder anywhere along the way?
Yes!
If so you do not seem to know your own history as to how haphazard it all was - mind you we cannot be all that certain as the various stories don't always agree. When it comes to the text itself there are dozens of interpolations which again points to uncertain compilation - I can give examples if you wish. Coupled with that there was not a single eyewitness other than the prophet of Islam to any of the revelations, no one saw the messenger and no one heard the messenger. None of this means we discard the book but it does mean we need not invent a whole structure of perfection when it is not necessary or justified. So a serious question, in Islam is the accepted dogma that if a single flaw can be found your whole faith must necessarily crumble?

You seriously call this a "question"? This tirade really is not worthy of the word. This is not a question but a series of unfounded and untrue allegations, which, as has been submitted to you by others, is NOT the point of this thread. This is NOT the style of a bona fide seeker of information and genuine seeker of knowledge. If you wish to enlighten us with the valuable "knowledge" you have discovered in this regard, please start another thread regarding this non-issue.

You can quibble and argue all you like, you can try to question/cross-examine/make us try to find or admit to non-existent faults, but it's not going to happen, and as such your repeated attempts at that are completely futile.

You are taking what you know to be true of Christianity and assuming and expecting it to be the same in Islam. That being the case, you are going to be deeply disappointed.

Allah, Glorified and Exalted be He, says:

"This day those who disbelieve have lost all hope of (damaging) your faith; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL- ISLAM". (Translation of The Holy Qur'an, (5: 3 (part))

Peace.
 
Last edited:
"This day those who disbelieve have lost all hope of (damaging) your faith; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL- ISLAM". (Translation of The Holy Qur'an, (5: 3 (part))

Peace.

Allah Akbar.. isn't it amazing how many times you read a verse and then you discover it anew.. masha'Allah..

:w:
 
No they don't. They don't speak of Jesus at all.
With the greatest of respect Grace seeker, I beielieve and I sure you do too that the dead sea scrolls do indeed speak of Jeus in Genises let us make man in OUR image; Psalms, Proverbs, Daniel and Isiah for example many times yes?

God Bless you
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Hugo Coupled with that there was not a single eyewitness other than the prophet of Islam to any of the revelations, no one saw the messenger and no one heard the messenger
You seriously call this a "question"? This tirade really is not worthy of the word. This is not a question but a series of unfounded and untrue allegations, which, as has been submitted to you by others, is NOT the point of this thread. This is NOT the style of a bona fide seeker of information and genuine seeker of knowledge. If you wish to enlighten us with the valuable "knowledge" you have discovered in this regard, please start another thread regarding this non-issue.

You can quibble and argue all you like, you can try to question/cross-examine/make us try to find or admit to non-existent faults, but it's not going to happen, and as such your repeated attempts at that are completely futile.

You are taking what you know to be true of Christianity and assuming and expecting it to be the same in Islam. That being the case, you are going to be deeply disappointed.

Allah, Glorified and Exalted be He, says:

"This day those who disbelieve have lost all hope of (damaging) your faith; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL- ISLAM". (Translation of The Holy Qur'an, (5: 3 (part))

Peace.

:sl:
do you want to know what is the saddest of all, aside from humoring his conjectures, playing it to the end, and recommending books.. Is that no matter how many times that particular question has been answered him, he never takes heed. Worse still a book was recommended him and he never gets past the title, for if he'd leaf though page 46 he'd read of several witnesses to the revelation!

he goes to chapter 11 of the book and reads 'Causes of variant Readings'
and has an aha moment, he doesn't get past that.. that is all he needed title and page number then reads the orientalist claim '' there are over 250,000' thousand copies of the Quran in my estimate'' but fails to read the rest of the chapter '' He argues that aside from the lack of dots (which I have responded to) variances also emerged because some reciters utilized text predating 'Uthman's mushaf which weren't destroyed despite the khalif's orders. But this claim is brandished without any supporting evidence. His collection of variants from Ibn Masud for instance is void from the start because none of his references even cites a ''mushaf of Ibn Masud' Most of his evidence states simply that Ibn Masud recited this verse in this way with no proof or chain of narrations; it is nothing more than gossip, pure hearsay, and to elevate it from its low character and use it as an argument against well proven recitations, is to refuse the distinction between a narrator's honest and falsehood''

This I have excerpted for you from Dr. Al'Azami's book to demonstrate as I have done before that you need not get into any deep intellectual dialogue with someone who has no intellectual honesty.. in fact our dear member who accuses me of being a shame to the board and Islam has done no more than exhibit in the most vivid of colors how own psychological projections. And as such one can only puff their chest out and bang extra hard on it when they are completely hallow and substance-less from the inside.. desiring the same level of ignorance from us toward our religion that they have toward theirs.. trusting that like them we don't get past the title and a page number, hoping we wouldn't probe, that we'd kowtow and resign for their pedantic and superficial and down right erroneous desires and expectations for surely those left in the darkness desire for themselves the company of equal fools. And If I told you that over the span of pages we have quoted and re-quoted ourselves and from books only so that this fool comes and re-pose the same questions completely ignoring historical facts, textual integrity and scholarly insights.. for the only scholars he deems scholarly are those of his own like-mind, medieval style simpleton whose answer to serious questions are abuse and the reciprocity comes in the form of posing non-questions.

let me end on the most noble words..

[17:81] And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."

:w:
 
Last edited:
Well this thread is incredible and has been through so much indeed. I see the debate on music has long ended and I apear to have had the last word on that. Ditto on Jesus methinks.
Spuer Moderator I love the Tag quote at the bottom of your post here several pages back:
ook on sharia law
Mosque-a-mania!
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
It strikes me as precisely as the Spirit of Jeus words beautiful indeed.





I do have a new but related to recent discussion question
would any learned Muslim pls explain if they think the following is a contadiction or like the Bible something which can be uinderstood depper in a supernatural way from our Great God's Holy Spirit?
In chapter, "al Waqiha," the Qur’an talks about those who are destined to enter paradise. It states in verses 13 and 14 that the majority will be from the nations who came before Muhammad and the minority will be from peoples who believed in Muhammad. But in the same chapter (verses 39 and 40), it is said that the majority will be from those people who came before and after Muhammad also. This is surprising for me as Verse 14 says, "... a few of those of later time", but in verse 40, the Qur’an says just the opposite, "... a multitude of those of later time."
Can anyone clarify this for me?

Gods Blessing to you
 
Does it?


the above is translated ... I suggest you not render your own translations to Quranic verses.. it is a terrible habit many of you seem to possess!
 
Last edited:
would any learned Muslim pls explain if they think the following is a contadiction or like the Bible something which can be uinderstood depper in a supernatural way from our Great God's Holy Spirit?
In chapter, "al Waqiha," the Qur’an talks about those who are destined to enter paradise.
This Surah, Surah al-Waaqi'ah, talks not only about those who will enter paradise, but also those who will enter hell.

As you will have read, the surah tells us that there will be three types of people on that day.

7. And ye will be three kinds:
8. (First) those on the right hand; what of those on the right hand?
9. And (then) those on the left hand; what of those on the left hand?
10. And the foremost in the race, the foremost in the race:
11. Those are they who will be brought nigh
12. In gardens of delight;
13. A multitude of those of old
14. And a few of those of later time


So there will be three types, those on the right hand, those on the left hand, and those who are foremost in front.

It states in verses 13 and 14 that the majority will be from the nations who came before Muhammad and the minority will be from peoples who believed in Muhammad.

Firstly, please note the word Muhammad is not mentioned anywhwere in this Surah.

Secondly, verses 11-26 describe those who are foremost, and in that passage, Allah mentions that they will be a multitude of those of old and a few of those of later time, as shown in verses 13 and 14 above.

But in the same chapter (verses 39 and 40), it is said that the majority will be from those people who came before and after Muhammad also. This is surprising for me as Verse 14 says, "... a few of those of later time", but in verse 40, the Qur’an says just the opposite, "... a multitude of those of later time."

You are assuming that people of paradise are one group, and that the same group of people is being talked about in verses 39-40 that were mentioned in 13-14. It is not. You seem to have missed verses 7-10 which clarify the groups of people, or perhaps didn't read the whole surah, and thus your misunderstanding.

Verses 27-40 are describing those on the right hand (and not the foremost).

27. And those on the right hand; what of those on the right hand?

And amongst this description of those on the right hand, is mentioned that these will be:

39. A multitude of those of old
40. And a multitude of those of later time.


So these verses tell us that the people on the right hand and will consist of many from those of old and also many from later times.

Whereas the foremost ones will consist of many from those of old and a few from later times.

Can anyone clarify this for me?

Done.

Peace.

P.S. I do not profess to be "learned". The average Muslim does not profess to be, even some the great scholars of Islam were fearful of calling themselves learned, and preferred to call themselves students of knowledge, as they considered themselves to be constantly learning, and thus not "learned".
 
Last edited:
I need to clarify that as-sabiqoon doesn't refer to 'Christians' or 'Jews' rather the righteous and the prophets .. I don't know why these Christians when all else fails them have to render their own translation to the Quran lol as if we've never read it or ignorant of Arabic...furthermore you are no longer those of old either wa so even if applicable to 'Jews' or 'Christians' it would be the righteous Jews and Christians prior to the paganist movement that made god three into one and anthropomorphous!

whatever the case here is tafsir ibn kathir:


[وَكُنتُمْ أَزْوَاجاً ثَلَـثَةً ]

(And you (all) will be in three groups.) This means that people will be divided into three categories on the Day of Resurrection. Some will on the right of Allah's Throne, and they are those who were brought forth from `Adam's right side. This category will be given their Books of Records in their right hand and will be taken to the right side. As-Suddi explained that they will comprise the majority of the residents of Paradise. Another category is those who will be placed to the left of Allah's Throne, and they are those who were brought forth from `Adam's left side. This category will be given their Books of Records in their left hands and will be taken to the left side. They are the residents of the Fire, may Allah save us from their actions. A third category is comprised of those who are the foremost and nearest before Allah. They are in a better grade and status and nearer to Allah than those on the right side. They are the chiefs of those on the right side, because they include the Messengers, Prophets, true believers and martyrs. They are fewer than those on the right side; so Allah said,

[فَأَصْحَـبُ الْمَيْمَنَةِ مَآ أَصْحَـبُ الْمَيْمَنَةِ - وَأَصْحَـبُ الْمَشْـَمَةِ مَآ أَصْحَـبُ الْمَشْـَمَةِ - وَالسَّـبِقُونَ السَّـبِقُونَ ]

(So those on the right -- how will be those on the right! And those on the left -- how will be those on the left! And those foremost will be foremost.) Allah divides people into these three groups upon their death, as indicated by the end of this Surah. Allah mentioned them in His statement as well,

[ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَـبَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا فَمِنْهُمْ ظَـلِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ وَمِنْهُمْ مُّقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌ بِالْخَيْرَتِ بِإِذُنِ اللَّهِ]

(Then We gave the Book as inheritance to such of Our servants whom We chose. Then of them are some who wrong themselves, and of them are some who follow a middle course, and of them are some who are, by Allah's leave, foremost in good deeds.)(35:32) Muhammad bin Ka`b, Abu Hazrah Ya`qub bin Mujahid said that,

[وَالسَّـبِقُونَ السَّـبِقُونَ ]

(And those foremost will be foremost.) is about the Prophets, peace be upon them, while As-Suddi said that they are the residents of the utmost highs (Ahl Al-`Illiyyin, in Paradise). The meaning of foremost is that they were foremost in performing the acts of righteousness just as Allah commanded them,



(These will be the nearest (to Allah). In the Gardens of Delight.)

[ثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الاٌّوَّلِينَ - وَقَلِيلٌ مِّنَ الاٌّخِرِينَ - عَلَى سُرُرٍ مَّوْضُونَةٍ - مُّتَّكِئِينَ عَلَيْهَا مُتَقَـبِلِينَ - يَطُوفُ عَلَيْهِمْ وِلْدَنٌ مُّخَلَّدُونَ - بِأَكْوَابٍ وَأَبَارِيقَ وَكَأْسٍ مِّن مَّعِينٍ - لاَّ يُصَدَّعُونَ عَنْهَا وَلاَ يُنزِفُونَ - وَفَـكِهَةٍ مِّمَّا يَتَخَيَّرُونَ - وَلَحْمِ طَيْرٍ مِّمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ - وَحُورٌ عِينٌ - كَأَمْثَـلِ اللُّؤْلُؤِ الْمَكْنُونِ - جَزَآءً بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ - لاَ يَسْمَعُونَ فِيهَا لَغْواً وَلاَ تَأْثِيماً - إِلاَّ قِيلاً سَلَـماً سَلَـماً ]

(13. A multitude of those will be from the first ones.) (14. And a few of those will be from the later ones.) (15. (They will be) on thrones, Mawdunah.) (16. Reclining thereon, face to face.) (17. Immortal boys will go around them (serving),) (18. With cups, and jugs, and a glass of flowing wine,) (19. Wherefrom neither Yusadda`un nor Yunzifun.) (20. And with fruit that they may choose.) (21. And with the flesh of fowls that they desire.) (22. And (there will be) Hur with wide lovely eyes.) (23. Like preserved pearls.) (24. A reward for what they used to do.) (25. No Laghw (evil vain talk) will they hear therein, nor any sinful speech.) (26. But only the saying of: "Salaman! Salaman!'')




The Reward of the Foremost in Faith

Allah states that the foremost of the close believers are a multitude, a crowd among the earlier generations and a few from the latter generations. There is a difference over the meaning of the first generations and the later generations. Some said that the former means earlier (believing) nations, while the later refers to this Ummah. This was reported from Mujahid and Al-Hasan Al-Basri, in the collection of Ibn Abi Hatim, and this is the preference of Ibn Jarir. He considered it supported by the saying of Allah's Messenger :

«نَحْنُ الْاخِرُونَ السَّابِقُونَ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَة»

(We are the later nation, but the foremost on the Day of Resurrection.) Ibn Jarir did not mention any other interpretation nor did he attribute this view to anyone else. There is another Hadith that could support this meaning. Imam Abu Muhammad bin Abi Hatim recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that when these Ayat were revealed,

[ثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الاٌّوَّلِينَ - وَقَلِيلٌ مِّنَ الاٌّخِرِينَ ]

(A multitude of those (foremost) will be from the first ones. And a few of those will be from the later ones.), this news became hard for the Companions of the Prophet . These this Ayat,

[ثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الاٌّوَّلِينَ وَثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الاٌّخِرِينَ ]

(A multitude of those will be from the first ones. And a multitude of those will be from the later ones.), were revealed. The Prophet then said,

«إِنِّي لَأَرْجُو أَنْ تَكُونُوا رُبُعَ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ، ثُلُثَ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ، بَلْ أَنْتُمْ نِصْفُ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ أَوْ: شَطْرُ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ وَتُقَاسِمُونَهُمُ النِّصْفَ الثَّانِي»

(I hope that you will comprise a quarter of the residents of Paradise, a third of the residents of Paradise. Rather, you are a half of the residents of Paradise, and will have a share in the other half.) Imam Ahmad also recorded this. However, this opinion that Ibn Jarir chose is questionable, rather it is a deficient interpretation. This is because this Ummah is the best of all nations, according to the text of the Qur'an. Therefore, it is not possible that the foremost believers from earlier nations are more numerous than those of in this Ummah; the opposite is true. The latter opinion is the correct one, that,

[ثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الاٌّوَّلِينَ ]

(A multitude of those will be from the first ones), refers to the earlier generations of this Ummah, while,

[وَقَلِيلٌ مِّنَ الاٌّخِرِينَ ]

(And a few of those will be from the later ones.), refers to the latter people of this Ummah. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that As-Sari bin Yahya said that Al-Hasan recited this Ayah,

[وَالسَّـبِقُونَ السَّـبِقُونَ - أُوْلَـئِكَ الْمُقَرَّبُونَ فِى جَنَّـتِ النَّعِيمِ ثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الاٌّوَّلِينَ ]

(And those foremost will be foremost. These will be the nearest (to Allah). In the Gardens of Delight. A multitude of those will be from the first ones.), Then he commented, "A multitude from the earlier generation of this Ummah.'' Ibn Abi Hatim also recorded that Muhammad bin Sirin commented:

[ثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الاٌّوَّلِينَ - وَقَلِيلٌ مِّنَ الاٌّخِرِينَ ]

(A multitude of those will be from the first ones. And a few of those will be from the later ones.), "They stated, or hoped that they will all be from this Ummah.'' Therefore, these are the statements of Al-Hasan and Ibn Sirin that those foremost in faith are all from this Ummah. There is no doubt that the earlier generations of each nation were better than the latter generations. In this pretext, this Ayah might include all previous believing nations. In this regard, it is confirmed in the authentic Hadith compilations, from more than one route, that the Messenger of Allah said;

«خَيْرُ الْقُرُونِ قَرْنِي، ثُمَّ الَّذِينَ يَلُونَهُمْ، ثُمَّ الَّذِينَ يَلُونَهُم»

(The best people are my generation, then the next generation, then the next generation....) He also said:

«لَا تَزَالُ طَائِفَةٌ مِنْ أُمَّتِي ظَاهِرِينَ عَلَى الْحَقِّ، لَا يَضُرُّهُمْ مَنْ خَذَلَهُمْ وَلَا مَنْ خَالَفَهُمْ، إِلَى قِيَامِ السَّاعَة»

(A group of my Ummah will always remain on the truth and dominant, unharmed by those who fail to support them and those who defy them, until the Last Hour begins.) In another narration:

«حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ أَمْرُ اللهِ تَعَالَى وَهُمْ كَذلِك»

(..until Allah's command comes while they are like this.) This Ummah is more honored than any other Ummah. The foremost believers of this Ummah are more numerous and hold a higher rank than those of other nations, due to the status of their religion and Prophet. In a Mutawatir Hadith, the Prophet mentioned that seventy thousand of this Ummah will enter Paradise without reckoning. In another narration of this Hadith, the Prophet added,

«مَعَ كُلِّ أَلْفٍ سَبْعُونَ أَلْفًا»

(With each thousand, another seventy thousand.) In yet another narration, he said,

«مَعَ كُلِّ وَاحِدٍ سَبْعُونَ أَلْفًا»

(With every one of them is another seventy thousand.) Allah's statement,

[عَلَى سُرُرٍ مَّوْضُونَةٍ ]

(on Thrones, Mawdunah.) Ibn `Abbas said, "Woven with gold.'' Similar was reported from Mujahid, `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Zayd bin Aslam, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and others. Allah said,

[مُّتَّكِئِينَ عَلَيْهَا مُتَقَـبِلِينَ ]

(Reclining thereon, face to face.) indicating that they will face each other, and none of them will be in the back lines,

[يَطُوفُ عَلَيْهِمْ وِلْدَنٌ مُّخَلَّدُونَ ]

(Immortal boys will go around them), who will never grow up, get old or change in shape,

[بِأَكْوَابٍ وَأَبَارِيقَ وَكَأْسٍ مِّن مَّعِينٍ ]

(With cups, and jugs, and a glass of flowing wine) these cups do not have handles or spouts, while the jugs sometimes do and sometimes do not. All of them, including the glasses, will contain wine drawn from a flowing spring, not from containers that might get empty. Rather, this spring of wine flows freely,

[لاَّ يُصَدَّعُونَ عَنْهَا وَلاَ يُنزِفُونَ ]

(Wherefrom neither Yusadda`un nor Yunzifun.) meaning, they will never get headaches from this wine nor intoxicated. Rather, this wine does not affect their minds, even though it has a strong and tremendously delightful taste. Ad-Dahhak reported from Ibn `Abbas: "The wine (of this life) has four side-effects, it intoxicates, gives headaches, induces vomiting and causes excessive urine. So Allah mentioned the wine of Paradise free of these characteristics.'' Mujahid, `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Atiyah Al-`Awfi, Qatadah and As-Suddi said that Allah's statement,

[لاَّ يُصَدَّعُونَ عَنْهَا]

(Wherefrom neither Yusadda`un) means, "It does not give them a headache.'' While they said that

[وَلاَ يُنزِفُونَ]

(nor will they Yunzifun. ) means that "It does not change their sense of reasoning.'' Allah's statement,

[وَفَـكِهَةٍ مِّمَّا يَتَخَيَّرُونَ - وَلَحْمِ طَيْرٍ مِّمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ ]

(And with fruit that they may choose. And with the flesh of fowls that they desire.) meaning, whatever fruits they wish for will be distributed among them. This Ayah is a proof that we are allowed to choose the fruits that we prefer and wish to eat. Imam Ahmad recorded that Thabit said that Anas said that the Messenger of Allah liked dreams. A man might have a dream, so he would ask about him if he did not know him, and would like to hear the dream if that man was praised for his good qualities. Once a woman came to him and said, "O Allah's Messenger! I had a dream that I was taken out of Al-Madinah and entered Paradise. I heard noise because of which Paradise wept. I looked and found so-and-so, so-and-so,' and she mentioned the names of twelve men whom the Prophet had sent with a military expedition. They were later brought on (in Paradise, in the dream) with their wounds still bleeding. It was said, `Take them to the river Baydakh or -- Baydhakh.' They were taken to that river and submerged in it and their faces turned as radiant as the full moon. They were brought a plate made of gold containing green dates. They ate as much of the green dates they wanted to and whenever they turned that plate around, they would eat from the fruit it contained, as much as they wanted, and I (the woman said) ate with them.'' Later on, that army sent an emissary to convey the news (of the battle) and he said that so-and-so and so-and-so died, mentioning the names of the twelve men who were mentioned in the dream. So, Allah's Messenger called the woman and again asked her to mention her story, and she did. This is the narration that Abu Ya`la collected, and Al-Hafiz Ad-Diya' said, "This Hadith meets the criteria of Muslim.'' Allah said,

[وَلَحْمِ طَيْرٍ مِّمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ ]

(And with the flesh of fowls that they desire.) Imam Ahmad recorded that Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said,

«إِنَّ طَيْرَ الْجَنَّةِ كَأَمْثَالِ الْبُخْتِ، يَرْعَى فِي شَجَرِ الْجَنَّة»

(Birds of Paradise are like Bukht camels that graze in the trees of Paradise.) Abu Bakr commented, "O Allah's Messenger! Surely, these birds must be wonderful.'' The Messenger said,

«آكِلُهَا أَنْعَمُ مِنْهَا»

(Those who eat them are more wonderful.) and repeated this statement thrice. The Prophet went on,

«وَإِنِّي لَأَرْجُو أَنْ تَكُونَ مِمَّنْ يَأْكُلُ مِنْهَا»

(And I hope that you will be among those who eat from them.) Only Imam Ahmad collected this Hadith using this chain of narration. Allah said;

[كَأَمْثَـلِ اللُّؤْلُؤِ الْمَكْنُونِ ]

(Like unto preserved pearls.), indicating that they are just as white and pure fresh pearls. We mentioned Allah's statement,

[كَأَنَّهُنَّ بَيْضٌ مَّكْنُونٌ ]

(As if they were eggs preserved.)(37:49), in Surat As-Saffat (chapter 37), and also their description in Surat Ar-Rahman (chapter 55). This is why Allah said afterwards,

[جَزَآءً بِمَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ ]

(A reward for what they used to do.) meaning, `these delights that We granted them are rewards for the good deeds that they performed (in this life).' Allah the Exalted said,

[لاَ يَسْمَعُونَ فِيهَا لَغْواً وَلاَ تَأْثِيماً - إِلاَّ قِيلاً سَلَـماً سَلَـماً ]

(No Laghw (evil vain talk) will they hear therein, nor any sinful speech. But only the saying of: "Salaman (peace,)! Salaman (peace.)!'') meaning they will not hear foul or unnecessary speech in Paradise.

[لاَّ تَسْمَعُ فِيهَا لَـغِيَةً ]

(Where they shall neither hear harmful speech nor falsehood.) (88:11), meaning, no foul words are uttered therein. Allah said,

[وَلاَ تَأْثِيماً]

(nor any sinful speech.) meaning, nor speech that contains foul words,

[إِلاَّ قِيلاً سَلَـماً سَلَـماً ]

(But only the saying of: "Salaman (peace!), Salaman (peace!).''), they will greet each other with Salam, just as Allah said in another Ayah,

[تَحِيَّتُهُمْ فِيهَا سَلَـمٌ]

(Their greeting therin will be: "Salaman (peace!).'') (14:23) And, as we mentioned, their words will be free from impure and needless speech.

[وَأَصْحَـبُ الْيَمِينِ مَآ أَصْحَـبُ الْيَمِينِ - فِى سِدْرٍ مَّخْضُودٍ - وَطَلْحٍ مَّنضُودٍ - وَظِلٍّ مَّمْدُودٍ - وَمَآءٍ مَّسْكُوبٍ - وَفَـكِهَةٍ كَثِيرَةٍ - لاَّ مَقْطُوعَةٍ وَلاَ مَمْنُوعَةٍ - وَفُرُشٍ مَّرْفُوعَةٍ - إِنَّآ أَنشَأْنَـهُنَّ إِنشَآءً - فَجَعَلْنَـهُنَّ أَبْكَـراً - عُرُباً أَتْرَاباً - لاًّصْحَـبِ الْيَمِينِ ]

[ثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الاٌّوَّلِينَ وَثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الاٌّخِرِينَ ]

(27. And those on the right -- how (fortunate) will be those on the right) (28. (They will be) among Sidri Makhdud,) (29. And among Talh Mandud.) (30. And in shade Mamdud,) (31. And by water flowing constantly,) (32. And fruit in plenty,) (33. Whose supply is not cut off nor are they out of reach.) (34. And on couches, raised high.) (35. Verily, We have created them a special creation.) (36. And made them virgins.) (37. `Urub, Atrab.) (38. For those on the right.) (39. A multitude of those will be from the first generation.) (40. And a multitude of those will be from the later generations.)
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=56&tid=51917
 
Very interesting, The Bible only speaks of the right hand of God. Hell is not beside God.

However I wish to know which English translations of the Quran are rerspected by Muslims who know good english and at least a significant part of the Quaran in Arabic.

Bless you all
 
Very interesting, The Bible only speaks of the right hand of God. Hell is not beside God.

However I wish to know which English translations of the Quran are rerspected by Muslims who know good english and at least a significant part of the Quaran in Arabic.

Bless you all

who said 'hell is beside God'?

anyhow here are several translations.. if you don't speak Arabic then it is best to read more than one translation to get a sense of meaning ..
http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/


all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1318593 said:
who said 'hell is beside God'?

anyhow here are several translations.. if you don't speak Arabic then it is best to read more than one translation to get a sense of meaning ..
http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/


all the best
Bless you and thank you for your prompt response, but I hope you don't mindcan I ask you why more than one englsh traslation is not enough? I there not any credble single translation I can read? I am confortable with any Bible and it is more meaningful only with direct assistance from God.

Peace be with you
 
I speak Arabic so I don't bother with translations.. if I had to choose I'd chose Asad or Pickthall

as for why non-Arabic speakers need more than one translation it is to try to enkindle as much as possible an interlingual rendition.. if you supply your desired renditions then you'll end up with Christianity all over again, with men god and charlatan saints.. This is about God's universal message and its preservation for all man-kind not about the messenger or the apostles or friends or family. Credible can't be a subjective term in that regard!


all the best
 
Last edited:
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1318605 said:
I speak Arabic so I don't bother with translations.. if I had to choose I'd chose Asad or Pickthall

as for why non-Arabic speakers need more than one translation it is to try to enkindle as much as possible an interlingual rendition.. if you supply your desired renditions then you'll end up with Christianity all over again, with men god and charlatan saints.. This is about God's universal message and its preservation for all man-kind not about the messenger or the apostles or friends or family. Credible can't be a subjective term in that regard!all the best

Can I just ask does this mean that you are saying there is some exact understanding of the words in Arabic that cannot be mistaken by anyone, every word can be understood perfectly?
 
Can I just ask does this mean that you are saying there is some exact understanding of the words in Arabic that cannot be mistaken by anyone, every word can be understood perfectly?

Indeed... everything is understood perfectly!
one can't account for the intellectually challenged and they are not accountable religiously speaking if you intend to go that route when out of ammo!

all the best
 
And therein lies the difference. Substance is subjective, and you seem to be sticking to what appears to be your "measure" of "substance". If your measure of substance is a god that can die, our measure of substance is an eternal, immortal God. If your measure of substance is rules that can be turned on their head from one day to the next, our measure of substance is rules that stand the test of time. If your measure of substance is a book with various human authors, with different versions, our measure of substance is a book that is 100% God's word, unchanged by any human.

What we are speaking of is substance in your answers - here for example, you simply make claims that cannot be substantiated either for your own beliefs and a lack of understanding of mine. You speak of authors as if the content is of zero importance and who is the verifiable author of the Qu'ran?
 
What we are speaking of is substance in your answers - here for example, you simply make claims that cannot be substantiated either for your own beliefs and a lack of understanding of mine. You speak of authors as if the content is of zero importance and who is the verifiable author of the Qu'ran?

The author of the Quran is God, that is what we know and believe, the onus is on you to disprove that if you can if you are the one raising objections!

all the best
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1318841 said:
Indeed... everything is understood perfectly!
one can't account for the intellectually challenged and they are not accountable religiously speaking if you intend to go that route when out of ammo!

all the best

I think you are mistaken and I cannot recall anyone ever saying what you have said because it is obviously impossible and would seem to make the many hundreds of Qu'ran commentaries redundant. Muslim Exegetes divide the words of the Qu'ran into four classes.

Khass - words used in a special sense
Amm - collective or common
Mushtarak - complex words that have several meanings
Mu'awwal - words which have several meaning, all of which are possible and thus require a special explanation
 
I think you are mistaken and I cannot recall anyone ever saying what you have said because it is obviously impossible and would seem to make the many hundreds of Qu'ran commentaries redundant. Muslim Exegetes divide the words of the Qu'ran into four classes.

Khass - words used in a special sense
Amm - collective or common
Mushtarak - complex words that have several meanings
Mu'awwal - words which have several meaning, all of which are possible and thus require a special explanation

Go ahead and use khas and 3amm and mushtarak etc. to show us how the Quran is undertsood differently!

I'll be waiting!

all the best
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top