Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Ramadhan]

@ramadhan According to ibn kathir a young man volunteered to get crucified . And it's supported by barnabas' gosple . So later on they crucified unknown young man . Was it in public ?

I don't know the answer to that, but the Qur'an makes it clear that it was made apparent to the enemies of Jesus that they crucified him, not to his true followers. When people rejected the messengers (pbut) sent to them and planned and plot to harm them, Allah SWT is the best of planners and made them go astray.

And How can you be sure that barnabas' is the only authentic gosple ! Ps :hold your horses and Lets waste some pages

Did I even mention the gospel of barnabas anywhere?
You keep saying things which are not supported by facts or evidence and accusing people of saying things they don't. You need to clean it up, bro.

 

[Ramadhan]

Please, can't we ALL avoid making such statements? To refute means 1. Prove (a statement or theory) to be wrong or false; disprove.2. Prove that (someone) is wrong.

umm.. no

Example: Personally, I believe I refuted Hamza Asadullah above. But, I doubt that he would agree that in his opinion I proved anything. So, absent some objective third party arbitrar of who has and has not made their case, it seems that we would be better served to simply avoid making such claims of "proof" and "refutation". They come across as merely the blustery comments of people oblivious to the realities of how others would have received them.

I understand that as christrian which is based on blind faith, you are adverse to proof, but in general, people want proof to believe in something.

 

[Ramadhan]

someone that says i refuted your argument by quoting ibn kathir whom quoted barnadas

Please show us the evidence that Ibn Kathir quoted gospeol of Barnabas or has gospel of Barnabas as his source.
First, I have never even mentioned the gospel of barnabas.
Second, br. Hamza also never claimed that Ibn Kathir quoted gospel of Barnabas.

You need to speak with evidence and please stop falsely attributing things to people, bro.

 

[Grace Seeker]

@grace seeker i do mind starting another thread about barnabas' gosple cos my question about jesus crucifixion was answered by quoting barnabas' gosple.

No. It wasn't.

That particular document can say whatever it wants, but it can't answer anything about the crucifixion of Jesus or Judas or comment on anything else from the first century. The important part thing to know the supposed Gospel of Barnabas is what even Muslims confess:

While a Letter of Barnabas was deleted from the original Bible as far as I know there is only one Gospel of Barnabas and it has many marks of clearly being a medieval work like referring to the Edenic fruit as an apple instead of some unspecified, probably unique fruit that's unidentified.

So, every time that Hamza turned to that work to "prove" that something was taught and believed by the first generation of the church, or "confirm" what some Muslim scholar has asserted, just remember these words:

While a Letter of Barnabas was deleted from the original Bible as far as I know there is only one Gospel of Barnabas and it has many marks of clearly being a medieval work like referring to the Edenic fruit as an apple instead of some unspecified, probably unique fruit that's unidentified.

To cite the Gospel of Barnabas is to appeal to a medieval work, not a first century writing by the disciple Barnabas.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I understand that as christrian which is based on blind faith, you are adverse to proof, but in general, people want proof to believe in something.

I'm not adverse to proof. I just haven't seen any, your so-called claims of "proof" not withstanding.

 

[Ramadhan]

I'm not adverse to proof. I just haven't seen any, your so-called claims of "proof" not withstanding.

Yes you are adverse to proof. We have hundreds of pages of threads as evidence and people can just look into your history.
But it's another discussion, and I don't want to make this thread goes off topic (as you did a few posts before when you asked everyone not to use the word "prove").

 

[Grace Seeker]

Here is a question for the Muslims currently active in this thread. Why do Muslims appeal to a medieval forgery as "confirmation" for what they claim were the beliefs of 1st century Christianity? How does the supposed Gospel of Barnabas lend any credence to Islam?

 

[Mr.President]

Salam
its been well presented by many but i have addition

it will decrease our Iman and slowly with addiction to music we will hate to pray on time or listen to Quran reading or read Quran
truly music is highly entertaining but it would not be beneficial in the long run.
This is big hindrance to our khushoo (focus in praying) also

When i was not Muslim, i told my self "Music is my life, I cant live without Music (truly nonsense belief huh?)
When i like a certain song, I would listen to it nonstop until i gave up and tired of listening

i didnt see that coming but yes the truth is that i wasted many times of my life

Now alhamdollelah, I do not have addiction to any of it

LAstnight, I asked my husband, he said that, Prophet Muhammad appreciated when people sang a poem (without instrument) during his visit to Medina

This sort of singing is allowed only in certain occasions such as: weddings, feasts, welcoming a traveler, and the like. This is based on the hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessing be upon him) that states: “He (peace and blessings be upon him) asked, ‘Have you given the girl (i.e., the bride) anything as a present?' They (the attendants) replied, ‘Yes.' He asked, 'Did you send a singer along with her?' 'No', said `A'ishah. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) then said, 'The Ansar are a people who love poetry. You should have sent along someone who would sing: Here we come, to you we come, greet us as we greet you.'" In this case, we can say that a woman can sing only in front of women and her non-marriageable male kin.

110 % agree with u !!! its a disease

 

[Ramadhan]

Here is a question for the Muslims currently active in this thread. Why do Muslims appeal to a medieval forgery as "confirmation" for what they claim were the beliefs of 1st century Christianity? How does the supposed Gospel of Barnabas lend any credence to Islam?

I am active in this thread and I am muslim, so your question is directed to me.
I NEVER "appeal to a medieval forgery as "confirmation" for what they claim were the beliefs of 1st century Christianity". nor do I ever take gospel of barnabas to lend any credence to Islam.
I am flabbergasted that a PASTOR could speak with no truth.

You are good with words, GS. But you speak with no evidence. Example: you take the bible as your scripture and word of god, bible who contains so many forgeries, such as pericope adulterae which is proven as fabrication and falsely attributed against Jesus (pbuh), a person whom you worship as God.

 

[Getoffmyback]

Even after reading ibn kathir's and the way he detailed the event to the level of describing jesus taking a shower and his hair was dribbling water..... I see it out of his imagination only its No evidence at all cos he wasn't there with them in the house. Then bro hamza used barnabas' as confirmation of kathir's imagination and barnabas' is not reliable. Later if a christian want to use matthews mark luke ..... About crucifixion story even if jesus was crucified i think it will only take a primitive mentality to rationalize the disappointment of losing a loved spiritual figure to the level of thinking he was god . I want to share with you What i can conclude "my own conclusion or the way i see things " i see that religious evidence are only based on one's faith in his own religion . I choose not to believe the you guys do cos it's becoming stubbornly an unsolved mystery between humans and they are stuck on he said this No he said that . Me right you wrong......infinity arguments

 

[Ramadhan]

Even after reading ibn kathir's and the way he detailed the event to the level of describing jesus taking a shower and his hair was dribbling water..... I see it out of his imagination only its No evidence at all cos he wasn't there with them in the house. Then bro hamza used barnabas' as confirmation of kathir's imagination and barnabas' is not reliable. Later if a christian want to use matthews mark luke ..... About crucifixion story even if jesus was crucified i think it will only take a primitive mentality to rationalize the disappointment of losing a loved spiritual figure to the level of thinking he was god . I want to share with you What i can conclude "my own conclusion or the way i see things " i see that religious evidence are only based on one's faith in his own religion . I choose not to believe the you guys do cos it's becoming stubbornly an unsolved mystery between humans and they are stuck on he said this No he said that . Me right you wrong......infinity arguments

You asked Islamic position regarding Jesus crucifixion, and we have explained patiently while you kept being contentious, and you claim we only use our faith in our own religion, but in the previous post you claimed things which are not even supported by any evidence at all, scriptures or otherwise. Shall I remind you of your own posts?

Islamic position on Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection is clear: it didn't happen, and historically, there were many early christians who also believed the same thing, until they were stamped out by roman emperors who chose their own brand of faith.

Also, in your previous post, you claimed yourself as a muslim, but it has become apparent that you don't even believe in the Qur'an.

Just in case you have forgotten your own claim as a muslim, here's what you wrote:

And about brother hamza's post he used in his argument that the gosples provides evidence that jesus was not crucified at all . It was judas who took jesus' place on the cross . But he is addressing christians cos he is using their books to argue the crucifiction . I know about the answering christianity and answering islam sites . But for me as a muslim i can't use christian books as evidence about the crucifixion cos i have to believe that the christian books are altered and all the evidence in them are fabricated. So Lets stick at verse 4:157 and help me understand it more.

 

[Hiroshi]

Example: you take the bible as your scripture and word of god, bible who contains so many forgeries, such as pericope adulterae which is proven as fabrication and falsely attributed against Jesus (pbuh), a person whom you worship as God.

Passages such as the pericope adulterae are recognized as fabrication and are not accepted as true scripture. Modern versions of the Bible make these things clear to the reader if such passages are included at all. This makes two things very evident. (1) Yes, these have been attempts made to corrupt the Bible but (2) these attempts have not succeeded.

 

[Getoffmyback]

Man i'm learning the religious mentality i wanna see if i can absorb the way religious people rationalize issues into truth. It's true i wrote "for me as a muslim...." But it was only in questioning context. But anyway it was a good couple of pages . And i see No difference if a muslim or a none muslim asked such questions. right!

I'm still trying to find a label for myself cos i never practiced islam although i'm labeled muslim on my id. My parents are not religious and they made sure to keep me away from mosques during our civil war cos they feared that i might get recruited by islamic militias.

So i'm only questioning alright mr ramadhan i'm not an expert and i know that threads starts by discussing chick peas and you'll end up discussing green peas . It gets mixed up . Peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

I am active in this thread and I am muslim, so your question is directed to me.
I NEVER "appeal to a medieval forgery as "confirmation" for what they claim were the beliefs of 1st century Christianity". nor do I ever take gospel of barnabas to lend any credence to Islam.
I am flabbergasted that a PASTOR could speak with no truth.

You are good with words, GS. But you speak with no evidence. Example: you take the bible as your scripture and word of god, bible who contains so many forgeries, such as pericope adulterae which is proven as fabrication and falsely attributed against Jesus (pbuh), a person whom you worship as God.

I never said that YOU PERSONALLY held those views. I said that there are Muslims who do. And that is true.

So, since this has become a topic in this thread, I am curious, why in Islam there are those who accept this piece, the Gospel of Barnabas, that is generally recognized as a medieval invention and use it to try to substantiate Islamic beliefs or define early Christian beliefs?

 

[Ramadhan]

Man i'm learning the religious mentality i wanna see if i can absorb the way religious people rationalize issues into truth. It's true i wrote "for me as a muslim...." But it was only in questioning context. But anyway it was a good couple of pages . And i see No difference if a muslim or a none muslim asked such questions. right!

Anyone can ask question about Islam in this thread, but dishonesty especially in regards to professed belief is highly against the spirit and rules of this forum, as this forum is a faith-based Islamic forum.

I'm still trying to find a label for myself cos i never practiced islam although i'm labeled muslim on my id. My parents are not religious and they made sure to keep me away from mosques during our civil war cos they feared that i might get recruited by islamic militias.

It's good that you still have curiosity to learn about Islam that means Allah SWT still guide you to the straight path. However, you need to have open heart and positive attitude to learn anything, which judging by your posts here, not so much.
Also, there is a big difference between "non-praciticing muslim" and those who don't believe in the Qur'an.
All scholars agree that disbelieve in the Qur'an takes someone out of Islam.

So i'm only questioning alright mr ramadhan i'm not an expert and i know that threads starts by discussing chick peas and you'll end up discussing green peas . It gets mixed up . Peace

There is big difference between those who are genuinely interested to understand Islam and really want to have discussions against those who are here just to show disdain for Islam.

Instead of asking questions and having discussions, here's what you have been doing:
Have a look again in your earlier posts: you actually didn't ask questions but instead you said things as if they were facts (eg. unity of christians and muslims at the end of time, jesus as christian, thousands witnessed jesus crucifixion, etc), and you asked muslims opinions or Islamic positions on such things. When we explained that they were not true and provided you with Islamic sources and explanations, and asked you for your own sources, you suddenly had this attitude of "oh I don't take Islamic explanations" and you couldn't even produce a single source or evidence for what you stated as facts.

And then instead of explaining what you don't understand about certain things or even to argue about certain matters, this is how your response: Oh, I don't care, you all only follow religious blind faith, etc.
If this had always been your stance, what exactly is your purpose in this thread, or in this forum?
Atheists of this forum are at least more forthcoming about what they believe.

 

[Ramadhan]

I never said that YOU PERSONALLY held those views. I said that there are Muslims who do. And that is true.

Ah GS, I'm glad you changed the grammar/editor of your statement/question. You didn't exactly say the way you are saying it now. I hope as a pastor you have the honesty to acknowledge it.
In earlier post you wrote:

Why do Muslims appeal to a medieval forgery as "confirmation" for what they claim were the beliefs of 1st century Christianity?

anyone with basic grasp of english could understand that you tried to make it appear as if muslims in general have that particular view.

And now with this post you changed it to:

I said that there are Muslims who do.

and

why in Islam there are those who

the new sentences mean there could be only as few as two among a billion and a half muslims, as opposed to your original sentence which mean muslims in general. I have heard of gospel of barnabas in name only and in my life as a muslim, it never entered into any learning/study/discussion about Islam at all. So GS, can you show us, how are there muslims who use gospel of barnabas to substantiate Islamic belief? The Qur'an itself is more than enough to substantiate and acts as evidence that Islam is the truth. (unlike bible, which I am sure you don't really want to bring as evidence for christian belief as it has thousands of errors, contradictions, and even fabrications against god!)

 

[Grace Seeker]

Ah GS, I'm glad you changed the grammar/editor of your statement/question. You didn't exactly say the way you are saying it now. I hope as a pastor you have the honesty to acknowledge it.
In earlier post you wrote:

anyone with basic grasp of english could understand that you tried to make it appear as if muslims in general have that particular view.

You can believe what you want, you usually do. Everyone else is free to refer to all of the previous posts and make their own determination.

the new sentences mean there could be only as few as two among a billion and a half muslims, as opposed to your original sentence which mean muslims in general.

They could, but they don't.

Though I don't have any exact numbers, the frequency with which I have encountered that concept on this forum alone suggests that the number is probably in the hundreds of millions. Among them Hamza in this thread, Airforce in one I PMed you, and The Vale's Lily who was the first to speak to me about it and once told me that she actually owns an old copy of this supposed Gospel of Barnabas.

Of course that is only three, and I don't really remember if The Vale's Lily was telling me that she accepts the Gospel of Barnabas or just that she has a copy of it, so let's not count her. Back to two. Does that make you right? No, it doesn't.

Consider The Sabr Foundation. It is just one of many Islamic websites that that supports the legitimacy of this gospel and is widely quoted elsewhere on the Internet. The Sabr Foundation published a poll with the following statement/question:

"I think the Gospel of Barnabas is true Gospel of Jesus."
The possible answer with the results are as follows:

4160 "Yes." (52.5%)
1563 "No." (19.7%)
1360 "Mostly true." (17.2%)
602 "Uncertain." (7.6%)
242 "Mostly false." (3.1%)

7927 Total number of votes cast as of June 9, 2011.
​

I have heard of gospel of barnabas in name only and in my life as a muslim, it never entered into any learning/study/discussion about Islam at all. So GS, can you show us, how are there muslims who use gospel of barnabas to substantiate Islamic belief?

Sure.

First. Have you been reading this thread or just posting? Much of Hamza's post #2530 is little more than an appeal to the supposed-gospel of Barnabas. If you still doubt that he uses it to substantiate beliefs such as Islam's rejection of the crucifixion, then what was the point of this:

The Quran emphatically states that they did not kill Jesus.... The Gospel of St. Barnabas supported the theory of substitution on the Cross.

Second. The Quran Council of Pakistan has published a copy of it. One might presume they did so because they see it as substantiating Islamic beliefs. I am not aware of them ever publishing a Bible or any other Christian text.


Third. Omar Zaid, a Muslim author, has written a book defending the Gospel of Barnabas and compares the picture of Jesus found in Paul with that of this supposed Gospel and says, "the man presented by both writes as Jesus (Prophet Isa) is hardly recognizable as the same person." The rest of his book, "Forgotten Saint(s), The Gospel of Barnabas: Survey and Commentary" goes on to not only favor this supposed gospel's understanding of Jesus over Paul's any other presentation of Jesus found in Christian literature, but also to value it for being a truer copy of the Injil that Muslims claim Jesus brought than are what Christains consider the authentic Gospels.


Fourth. According to Global Oneness, a group that definitely does NOT have a Chrisitan agenda, "The Gospel of Barnabas was little known outside academic circles until recent times, when a number of Muslims have taken to publishing it in order to argue against the orthodox Christian conception of Jesus."


Fifth. "In the 19th century, al-Kairânawî used it [the supposed-gospel of Barnabas] as a weapon against the Christian rejection of Muhammad." (Source: "The Influence of German Biblical Criticism on Muslim Apologetics in the 19th Century" by Christine Schirrmacher)


Sixth. In "The Muhammad Revelation" by Rashid Rida, he cites the supposed-gospel of Barnabas in support of Jesus having predicted Muhammad's (pbuh) coming as one who would take his place. Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi does the same thing.


Seventh. Like Rida and Maududi, DawaNet declares: "The Gospel of Barnabas is the most authentic Gospel available today."


Eighth. The are multiple YouTube videos presented as apologies for Islam that make reference to the supposed-gospel of Barnabas. Here is just one of many examples: http://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?p=muslim+scholars+gospel+of+barnabas


Ninth. The website answering-christianity.com even goes so far as to say, "The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 A.D." Though it gives no evidence that this was ever true, and I believe is confused with the Epistle of Barnabas about which Yahya has already reported.


Tenth. You knew the answer to this question even before you asked it, which in my opinion shows you as one who is posturing and not genuinely seeking knowledge, for several hours ago I sent you a PM which included the following:

God says: And they, the disbelievers among the Children of Israel, schemed, against Jesus, by assigning someone to assassinate him; and God schemed, by casting the likeness of Jesus onto the person who intended to kill him, and so they killed him, while Jesus was raised up into heaven; and God is the best of schemers, most knowledgeable of him [Jesus]. [tafsir Al Jalalayn Sura 3 aya 54]

The tafsir is also supported by Barnabas gospel which says the likeness of Jesus was cast onto Judas who had schemed to kill him and not the one who volunteered to take his place .

Indeed, Airforce likes to appeal to Barnabas so much he copy and pasted the same material multiple times:

Example #1: Airforce in http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...e-jesus-not-really-crucified.html#post1377371

Example #2: Airforce in http://www.islamicboard.com/general...arding-jesus-pbuh-crucifxion.html#post1361770


I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to stop there. You asked if I could show "how are there muslims who use gospel of barnabas to substantiate Islamic belief", and I believe that 10 different examples ranging from posts by several different Muslims on this forum, to websites devoted to it, to people I am told are major Islamic theologians (forgive me if I took their word for it) all who cite this supposed-gospel of Barnabas as an apologetic for those Islamic beliefs regarding Jesus crucifixion, the supposed-Injil, and a prophecy regarding Muhammad (p) that differ from historic Christian teachings should suffice to show what you asked for.

Now do you care to address the question? Why is this so frequently referred to, when even Muslim scholars (at least according to wikipedia, if you can believe them) recognize that the work is a medieval creation?




One last point. As to the credibility of this statement: "I have heard of gospel of barnabas in name only and in my life as a muslim, it never entered into any learning/study/discussion about Islam at all" which you made above, I provide the following:

[FONT=&quot]In 325 A.D., the famous Council of Nicea was held. The doctrine of the Trinity was declared to be the official doctrine of the Pauline Church, and one of the consequences of this decision was that out of the three hundred or so Gospels exant at the time, four were chosen as the official Gospels of the Church. The remaining Gospels, including the Gospel of Barnabas, were ordered to be destroyed completely. It was also decided that all Gospels written in Hebrew should be destroyed. An edict was issued stating that anyone found in possession of an unauthorised Gospel would be put to death. This was the first well-organized attempt to remove all the records of Jesus’ original teaching, whether in human beings or books, which contradicted the doctrine of Trinity. (Muhammad Ataur-Rahim, Jesus Prophet Jesus of Islam, 1992 edition, p. 40)

[/FONT]

 

[Ramadhan]

You can believe what you want, you usually do. Everyone else is free to refer to all of the previous posts and make their own determination.

It's your play of words again. But I have noticed that you do not reject my analyses of your change in editing your words, for you must have known you couldn't have substantiated your own assertion in the first instance.

They could, but they don't. Though I don't have any exact numbers, the frequency with which I have encountered that concept on this forum alone suggests that the number is probably in the hundreds of millions. Among them Hamza in this thread, Airforce in one I PMed you, and The Vale's Lily who was the first to speak to me about it and once told me that she actually owns an old copy of this supposed Gospel of Barnabas. Of course that is only three, and I don't really remember if The Vale's Lily was telling me that she accepts the Gospel of Barnabas or just that she has a copy of it, so let's not count her. Back to two. Does that make you right? No, it doesn't.

So a few posters on an internet forum represent 1.5 billions muslims? I do admire your power of deduction.

But let's make one thing for clear: you charged that muslims DO use gospel of barnabas to substantiate Islamic belief. As far as I am concerned, those posters that you mentioned gospel of barnabas in relation to christian belief that Jesus was crucified, and it is big difference from "I believe Jesus was not crucified because gospel of Barnabas said so".

Second. The Quran Council of Pakistan has published a copy of it. One might presume they did so because they see it as substantiating Islamic beliefs. I am not aware of them ever publishing a Bible or any other Christian text.

Rahim, M A - The Gospel of Barnabas. (Qur'an Council of Pakistan, Karachi, Pakistan, 1973). So someone in Pakistan (Rahim) in 1973 (maybe unaware at that time about the scholarly studies on the gospel) wrote about the Gospel of Barnabas, and now you are claiming that it substantiate muslims belief? nice deduction, sherlock.

Third. Omar Zaid, a Muslim author, has written a book defending the Gospel of Barnabas and compares the picture of Jesus found in Paul with that of this supposed Gospel and says, "the man presented by both writes as Jesus (Prophet Isa) is hardly recognizable as the same person." The rest of his book, "Forgotten Saint(s), The Gospel of Barnabas: Survey and Commentary" goes on to not only favor this supposed gospel's understanding of Jesus over Paul's any other presentation of Jesus found in Christian literature, but also to value it for being a truer copy of the Injil that Muslims claim Jesus brought than are what Christains consider the authentic Gospels.

And yet it's just another muslim, who is NOT a scholar, wrote a commentary about gospel of barnabas. This is what I know of Omar Zaid: Prior to his conversion to Islam in 2004, Dr. Zaid was an Evangelical Christian Missionary in Sarawak, East Malaysia, (spurce: http://zaid-pub.iii4s.org/?page_id=28)
And as far as I know, he believes that Jesus was not crucified NOT because of gospel of barnabas.

Fourth. According to Global Oneness, a group that definitely does NOT have a Chrisitan agenda, "The Gospel of Barnabas was little known outside academic circles until recent times, when a number of Muslims have taken to publishing it in order to argue against the orthodox Christian conception of Jesus."

Right. Did you actually read the sentence: "to argue against the orthodox Christian conception of Jesus", so again, the gospel was cited in relation with christian belief, but not used to as evidence to substantiate Islamic belief. It merely shows that there were christians who believed that Jesus was not crucified, and this is fact.

Fifth. "In the 19th century, al-Kairânawî used it [the supposed-gospel of Barnabas] as a weapon against the Christian rejection of Muhammad." (Source: "The Influence of German Biblical Criticism on Muslim Apologetics in the 19th Century" by Christine Schirrmacher)

Again, the gospel of barnabas was used in the context of discussion with christians ABOUT christian belief.

Sixth. In "The Muhammad Revelation" by Rashid Rida, he cites the supposed-gospel of Barnabas in support of Jesus having predicted Muhammad's (pbuh) coming as one who would take his place. Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi does the same thing.

From the wikipedia page (which normally has bias against Islam) that you cited from, here's few things:
some academics suggest that it may contain some remnants of an earlier apocryphal work edited to conform to Islam, perhaps Gnostic[2] or Ebionite[3] or Diatessaronic.[4] Some Muslims consider the surviving versions as transmitting a suppressed apostolic original. Some Islamic organizations cite it in support of the Islamic view of Jesus.

AND

Standard Muslim teaching asserts that the Injil, the prophetic Gospel delivered through the prophet Isa (Jesus of Nazareth), has been irretrievably corrupted and distorted in the course of Christian transmission; and that consequently, no reliance can be placed on any text in the Christian tradition (including the four canonical gospels of the Christian New Testament) as truly representing the teachings of Jesus. Since from an orthodox Islamic perspective, the Gospel of Barnabas is clearly a Christian work, as is demonstrated by its many points of difference from the Qur'an; it too may be expected to have undergone corruption and distortion. Consequently, no orthodox Muslim writer[dubious – discuss] accepts the Gospel of Barnabas as transmitting the authentic Injil;

Now, please tell me that current bible was not heavily edited, corrupted, omitted, added into, changed, etc (case in point: pericope adulterae and the letters of Barnabas).

Seventh. Like Rida and Maududi, DawaNet declares: "The Gospel of Barnabas is the most authentic Gospel available today." Eighth. The are multiple YouTube videos presented as apologies for Islam that make reference to the supposed-gospel of Barnabas. Here is just one of many examples: http://video.search.yahoo.com/search...el+of+barnabas

You need to seek clarification from Rida and Maududi. But yes, if a verse from a gospel agrees with what Qur'an says, then we take it as remnant of truth from sea of lies attributed to jesus (pbuh) and Allah SWT.

Ninth. The website answering-christianity.com even goes so far as to say, "The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 A.D." Though it gives no evidence that this was ever true, and I believe is confused with the Epistle of Barnabas about which Yahya has already reported.

We agree that this is a mix up.

Tenth. You knew the answer to this question even before you asked it, which in my opinion shows you as one who is posturing and not genuinely seeking knowledge, for several hours ago I sent you a PM which included the following:

I may have accused me of something I did not do or was not, which is not very pastor-like. FYI, I don't really read PMs from certain people. Now, take a guess.

Now do you care to address the question? Why is this so frequently referred to, when even Muslim scholars (at least according to wikipedia, if you can believe them) recognize that the work is a medieval creation?

If only you stopped and read carefully, the wiki page that you visited already provided the answer:
Some Muslims consider the surviving versions as transmitting a suppressed apostolic original.
and
Standard Muslim teaching asserts that the Injil, the prophetic Gospel delivered through the prophet Isa (Jesus of Nazareth), has been irretrievably corrupted and distorted in the course of Christian transmission; and that consequently, no reliance can be placed on any text in the Christian tradition (including the four canonical gospels of the Christian New Testament) as truly representing the teachings of Jesus. Since from an orthodox Islamic perspective, the Gospel of Barnabas is clearly a Christian work, as is demonstrated by its many points of difference from the Qur'an; it too may be expected to have undergone corruption and distortion. Consequently, no orthodox Muslim writer[dubious – discuss] accepts the Gospel of Barnabas as transmitting the authentic Injil;

One last point. As to the credibility of this statement: "I have heard of gospel of barnabas in name only and in my life as a muslim, it never entered into any learning/study/discussion about Islam at all" which you made above, I provide the following:

First of all, I know that accuracy and details are not your strength (for who puts accuracy as important when they worship a 3 entities and claim monotheist?), read again what I said in my previous post:

I have heard of gospel of barnabas in name only and in my life as a muslim, it never entered into any learning/study/discussion about Islam at all.

It means when I studied/learnt/discussed/explained about Islam, I have never used gospel of Barnabas or even encounter it, let alone to support my belief of Islam.
Now, you did a search and mentioned my post in another thread about comparisons between hadeeth AND bible:

In 325 A.D., the famous Council of Nicea was held. The doctrine of the Trinity was declared to be the official doctrine of the Pauline Church, and one of the consequences of this decision was that out of the three hundred or so Gospels exant at the time, four were chosen as the official Gospels of the Church. The remaining Gospels, including the Gospel of Barnabas, were ordered to be destroyed completely. It was also decided that all Gospels written in Hebrew should be destroyed. An edict was issued stating that anyone found in possession of an unauthorised Gospel would be put to death. This was the first well-organized attempt to remove all the records of Jesus’ original teaching, whether in human beings or books, which contradicted the doctrine of Trinity. (Muhammad Ataur-Rahim, Jesus Prophet Jesus of Islam, 1992 edition, p. 40)

If you read the whole thread and post, instead of just zooming on "gospel of barnabas" you would have known that I showed about the long heavy editing processes of bible, which included throwing out letters of barnabas (so it was a typo) and destroying hundreds of gospels (which even bible scholars and historians agree of), clearly even though I mix it up with letters of barnabas, I used it to let christians know about the history of their bible, and I did not use it to study/learn/discuss Islam.

Now, if you still don't believe me, you may spend your time searching again. I am sure it wold be best for you, for maybe there is a chance you read one of those illuminating posts, and finally realize that the bible who you consider is words of God is full of man-made conjectures, and many lies attributed against prophets (pbut) and Allah SWT, and who knows, maybe you finally come to your senses that man is never God and God is never man and hence the worship of mangod is the most grievous mistake a man can ever make.

 

[Ramadhan]

I'd like to quote Alpha Dude post regarding Islamic belief on Jesus crucifixion which I think answers getoffmyback's query, and maybe our estemeed pastor too if he cares:

B_M, quite simply, Allah raised Jesus (upon him be peace) to the heavens and protected him from the plot of the evil doers and substituted in his place someone else and everyone there at the time assumed it was Jesus that was being crucified. Jesus will descend in the end times to defeat the dajjal (anti christ) and go on to live a normal life here on Earth. 'Every soul shall taste death', as we are told in the Quraan, and since technically Jesus is not dead, he has to come back to Earth to finish the rest of his life.

Regarding the other non-biblical sources you bring, you should keep in mind, from the muslim perspective, the Quraan is the word of Allah and has been protected from corruption. Everything contained in it is flawless and the utmost truth. So for us, it is futile to look at external articles such as the one you bring to judge whether or not the Quraan is true, but rather the opposite ought to be done (i.e. your quotes should be matched up to what the Quraan says and then disregarded as being tampered with/corrupted if anything it says contradicts the Quraan). The Quranic text overrides all other sources in terms of being the truth, so quite frankly (respectfully), your quotes are useless to Muslims.

And this approach of ours makes sense. First you have to establish the truthfulness of Islam. If you have this, then anything else that contradicts it, by default, is incorrect. Please seek sincere guidance from God/Allah that you be guided to the truth. Allah has said if we take one step toward him, he comes running to us. So going by that, I believe that if you are indeed sincere in your quest for truth, without doubt and God willing, you will be brought to Islam.

From this thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...e-jesus-not-really-crucified.html#post1377371

 

[Getoffmyback]

@ramadhan i know the muslim views on crucifixion . But i don't understand people like ibn kathir writing detailed descriptions of What happened 700 years before he lived to the level of describing jesus' hair dripping water after taking a shower..... Imagination imagination .

رمضان you said i'm dishonest . I'm someone who transforms into a tony montana type of guys if my honesty is on the line

The christian muslim alliance at the end of time was an article written by a devote muslim answering muslim questions and i provided the link.

About the thousands witnessing jesus' crucifixion was only a questioning context not a fact . I was asking you But you don't even know if the crucifixion was in public and it's not even written in the quran So this question is important and it might provide a better way on understanding the islamic views on crucifixion. Cos till now i don't know How many people back then god made judas appear to them as jesus . God raised jesus and left the people wandering and banging their heads on the walls to find out What happened.


Jesus is from the people of the book And i know that muslims consider christians as people of the book! Christ ians christ followers . Christ jesus ians . Followers of jesus christ. Jesus is still jesus .