To Eien

[RisingLight]

I hate to hijack this thread to discuss my personal circumstances.. I will reply here on this occasion, but perhaps if you would like to discuss further we can create another thread.

I know that I was wanted for my citizenship because the family told me so, more or less. I was approached by them because they thought I had good qualities and would make a good wife for their brother who was looking to come to the US. I never had any contact with him personally. I was asked if I would like to marry him, and given that I was only 18 at the time, I wasn't even interested in determining if I was actually interested in him as a person. One month later, they found someone who accepted the proposal and they were married.



I would hope that a lot of Muslims meet those criteria, but to be honest I haven't found any correlation between what I'm looking for and being Muslim (at least in males). Due to my career, the majority of males I am exposed to are Hindu. And I can honestly say that they are the closest group of people I have found to meeting my criteria. I think Indians in general have a great respect for marriage and place a lot more significance on such a union than any other group of people. Perhaps to too great of an extent haha. But world wide, marriage is becoming less common, shorter and losing societal value.

To answer those questions, having a US passport is not a criteria haha. And it is not possible to prove that any man meets the criteria I have, passport or not. But, I would definitely need to have established my confidence that he does by getting to know him and his people. The third criteria is unique, because it's a response that his being evokes in myself. And as I mentioned, it's the reason I would want to marry a person in the first place.


Again, I can't call out a particular group, but many of the men that I have met throughout my life (married and unmarried) would be just as happy or more to have an uncommitted relationship with a woman over a committed one. And, when I say commitment, I of course mean a two-way agreement. I'm sure there are plenty of guys that would want a committed woman, and they themselves are free to have paramours as they please. I'm not saying at all that men don't commit, and hold fast to the commitments that they make - just that I don't find it to be something many men are inclined to. If you have known otherwise, perhaps I should be wherever you are. xD

[MENTION=36348]Eien[/MENTION] so since you didnt want to hijack that thread I made a new one.

Oh my ! the brother really loved US lol

Yeah too great of an extent.If you would see them in real marriage life you would know that they are far from your criterias.I could explain why they dont meet any of your criteria but I dont think being that harsh is neccessery.
Also they dont respect the marriage,in my opinion,but the fact that now they have a slav- lets say maid.You wouldnt want to be the wife of someone who behaves like a hindu husband trust me

I am sorry you had to meet these kind of people but I swear there are lots lots of muslims who not only fit your criteria,but they have more amazing qualities youd be surprised.You dont have to be wherever I am (though that looked like sarcasm) there are lots in europe,if not america.European converts for example are pretty good.
Maybe you should be more active in searching,or search for converts too.I can bet my kidneys that they would meet your criteria,thats how sure I am

Yes ofc you need to,rather than HINDUS who dont , but how would you get to know him and his people if you are so far away?

 

[Eien]

I appreciate the courtesy, but I would have placed it under miscellaneous as this is more of a direct conversation than topic.

Oh my ! the brother really loved US lol

I think this is actually very common. A sister I know personally unknowingly married a man whose sole intention was to gain US citizenship. As soon as he had it, he divorced her. Thankfully she found my uncle and is finally happily married.

If you would see them in real marriage life you would know that they are far from your criterias.

I would have to disagree with you there. And, I'm not sure why you are masking the word marriage.. Again, different individuals have different behaviors/mentalities. But, some of the best partnerships I have seen have been between Hindu people. In complete honesty, I have seen more positive marriages between Hindu people than Muslim people - but, I will also admit that those are not the only factors involved. Personally, I believe Indian people in general are more family oriented. It's deeply woven in to the fabric of their society, and concern for one's family is much more highly regarded than in Western culture. I believe that such having values is more conducive to having a successful marriage. Why I believe in this positive correlation I can explain, but I'm not usually given to typing extensive posts. So, it may take some time. I will admit though a bias that I am aware of in my personal experience. Everyone that I have encountered is not in their native country, but in a foreign one. It is possible that those that come to the US are by some factors a subset of the overall population. That said, most Indians I have met have earned higher education, which itself is correlated with greater marital success.

Anyhow, the subject is obviously complex, and I don't have the life time to investigate beyond my own experience, the experiences of others that I am aware of, and various studies I happen to read.

Also, for what it's worth, my own mother has found someone she genuinely would like me to marry.. and he's Hindu. She's still trying to determine how Hindu he really is and if he'd be open to accepting Islam.

That wasn't sarcasm by the way, more of an amused recognition.

I am sure there are thousands of men in the world who meet the criteria I set, I just don't think there are many more 'Muslims' than non Muslims. I emphasized Muslims here because in actuality, anyone I would marry would in actuality be a Muslim (or willing to be a Muslim) - though they may not have read a word of Quran, or may be committing Shirk. The exact meaning of Muslim is one who submits to God. They may in fact be submitting to an incomplete or flawed idea of God, but if they are submitting to the best of their understanding, I believe they are Muslim. Now, one could argue that if they are in fact not submitting to Allah, it is because they are not sincerely submitting.. But, we are flawed. The importance is in the will to submit to the truth, and to seek it.

I'm kind of curious, since you mentioned it - how would you suggest I search. I'll tell you that I've already had a profile on several different sites, for a time (without a picture, in case you were wondering). Meet people pretty regularly in day to day life, since I'm active in my community. And attend some events at the masjid nearest me. Regarding converts in particular, I don't know that I've met any. They are not very common in comparison to those who have had a Muslim upbringing, where I am at least. Thankfully, I happen to to have access to this magical thing known as the internet.. And, if things stars seem to align, I will take some time to off to visit. Assuming they aren't in the middle to a warzone. Oh, and just one kidney is far to risky haha.

 

[RisingLight]

I appreciate the courtesy, but I would have placed it under miscellaneous as this is more of a direct conversation than topic.


I think this is actually very common. A sister I know personally unknowingly married a man whose sole intention was to gain US citizenship. As soon as he had it, he divorced her. Thankfully she found my uncle and is finally happily married.


I would have to disagree with you there. And, I'm not sure why you are masking the word marriage.. Again, different individuals have different behaviors/mentalities. But, some of the best partnerships I have seen have been between Hindu people. In complete honesty, I have seen more positive marriages between Hindu people than Muslim people - but, I will also admit that those are not the only factors involved. Personally, I believe Indian people in general are more family oriented. It's deeply woven in to the fabric of their society, and concern for one's family is much more highly regarded than in Western culture. I believe that such having values is more conducive to having a successful marriage. Why I believe in this positive correlation I can explain, but I'm not usually given to typing extensive posts. So, it may take some time. I will admit though a bias that I am aware of in my personal experience. Everyone that I have encountered is not in their native country, but in a foreign one. It is possible that those that come to the US are by some factors a subset of the overall population. That said, most Indians I have met have earned higher education, which itself is correlated with greater marital success.

Anyhow, the subject is obviously complex, and I don't have the life time to investigate beyond my own experience, the experiences of others that I am aware of, and various studies I happen to read.

Also, for what it's worth, my own mother has found someone she genuinely would like me to marry.. and he's Hindu. She's still trying to determine how Hindu he really is and if he'd be open to accepting Islam.

That wasn't sarcasm by the way, more of an amused recognition.

I am sure there are thousands of men in the world who meet the criteria I set, I just don't think there are many more 'Muslims' than non Muslims. I emphasized Muslims here because in actuality, anyone I would marry would in actuality be a Muslim (or willing to be a Muslim) - though they may not have read a word of Quran, or may be committing Shirk. The exact meaning of Muslim is one who submits to God. They may in fact be submitting to an incomplete or flawed idea of God, but if they are submitting to the best of their understanding, I believe they are Muslim. Now, one could argue that if they are in fact not submitting to Allah, it is because they are not sincerely submitting.. But, we are flawed. The importance is in the will to submit to the truth, and to seek it.

I'm kind of curious, since you mentioned it - how would you suggest I search. I'll tell you that I've already had a profile on several different sites, for a time (without a picture, in case you were wondering). Meet people pretty regularly in day to day life, since I'm active in my community. And attend some events at the masjid nearest me. Regarding converts in particular, I don't know that I've met any. They are not very common in comparison to those who have had a Muslim upbringing, where I am at least. Thankfully, I happen to to have access to this magical thing known as the internet.. And, if things stars seem to align, I will take some time to off to visit. Assuming they aren't in the middle to a warzone. Oh, and just one kidney is far to risky haha.

Yes I was thinking to post it there but idk what happened

SubhanAllah !! That is so heartless!! But how can sisters be so naive? And whats so special about US that these people are able to brake a heart for a piece of paper? The second one is a retorical question

Wow I dissagree with you a lot sis haha but its ok lets cut this 'indians and marriage' thing.We are in two completely different environments and its normal to have different opinions.What you experience there I dont experience here and vice versa.I am sure I would have thought the same as you if I was in your place
I am just very sad though that I have met tremendously (wow,i said that?) good brothers who even went in other countries as asylum seekers to find a wife (we dont have many sisters here) and get rejected cuz of their passport,and these people who only marry for papers have so many chances

Yeah I agree with the second point but I am surprised that the muslims you have met have left you to think like this.Hindu again? You sure you are in US and not in Gujarat girl? check your location on google maps :giggling:

Well idk,maybe connect with imams in other countries? Let them know,idk really.I dont know how to search myself.If you know of any good sites you can tell me in PM if you feel uncomfortable of sharing here.After 4 posts you are a full member and can pm.I sent you a link there btw let me know if you read it

Interesting.When do you think that things seems to align?

Thank you for taking time to reply btw

 

[Eien]

SubhanAllah :O !! That is so heartless!! But how can sisters be so naive? And whats so special about US that these people are able to brake a heart for a piece of paper? The second one is a retorical question

The first is more of a rhetorical question, if you ask me haha. Honestly, one of the issues was a language barrier, I am sure. He and his family and friends spoke Arabic, and so she had no access to his peripheral relationships. It's important to get to know those who know the potential spouse and their regular surroundings, it all gives one insight to their person. If you choose to marry a person by only the words they say to you, it's a lot easier to be fooled.

Yeah I agree with the second point but I am surprised that the muslims you have met have left you to think like this.Hindu again? You sure you are in US and not in Gujarat girl? check your location on google maps :giggling:

Hahahaha xD I can say this at least. When people come here from India, they're surprised that they're able to feel this much at home. And, I suppose I should mention that I've probably known more Indian people than most, given that my Godmother is from Bangalore. Though she and her husband are from India, they are actually Muslim.

Well idk,maybe connect with imams in other countries? Let them know,idk really.I dont know how to search myself.If you know of any good sites you can tell me in PM if you feel uncomfortable of sharing here.After 4 posts you are a full member and can pm.I sent you a link there btw let me know if you read it

I can tell you the sites I've used, but as to how good they are, I have no idea. I haven't had any bad experiences, at least! I really think we ought to have a thread for the purpose of finding a spouse here even, but the fact that I haven't been able to find one leads me to think it may not be allowed.

When do you think that things seems to align?

I honestly don't know, as things haven't aligned yet haha. But, generally I can tell if someone meets my criteria or not within one to three conversations, depending on how directly we are speaking. I have one potentially bad tendency though, and that is the ability to look at a person optimistically. I highly caution you regarding this as well. People who are close, or people I particularly like, I have waited for. And, obviously this has not lead me to anything other than the realization that I must carefully guard myself from developing feelings towards those that I am not compatible with. Right now I am facing another such situation, and I am walking a fine line between getting to know them (though I know they don't meet my criteria at this time) and getting invested in them. Know that you cannot change people. And do not miss the opportunity that is meant for you, chasing the one that is not. I'm telling myself this as much as you.

I did read your thread, and I'm truly glad that you have a clearer state of mind through coming to these forums. As many have mentioned, I'd just like to point out that being unable to pray in the way you would like to does not prevent you from trying to be Muslim. Allah does not need us, we are the ones in need. So, acknowledge that need in front of the one that sustains everything. Maintaining patience through any difficulty that you suffer in trying to align your intention to that of The One's will increase you. I do not believe it is Allah's intention that the righteous should suffer, but for the righteous suffering does no actual harm. It is simply a part of the reality we are aware of, a reality which is an illusion. I sometimes wonder if I chose this illusion.. but I cannot consider being anything other than what I am now, and now I choose to be here every day of my life. I have chosen this every day I have lived, with or without thinking about it. And for each day, well lived or not, I can say Alhamdulillah. Let us both be stronger in our resolve to live according to the truth.

 

[RisingLight]

SubhanAllah :O !! That is so heartless!! But how can sisters be so naive? And whats so special about US that these people are able to brake a heart for a piece of paper? The second one is a retorical question

The first is more of a rhetorical question, if you ask me haha. Honestly, one of the issues was a language barrier, I am sure. He and his family and friends spoke Arabic, and so she had no access to his peripheral relationships. It's important to get to know those who know the potential spouse and their regular surroundings, it all gives one insight to their person. If you choose to marry a person by only the words they say to you, it's a lot easier to be fooled.




Hahahaha xD I can say this at least. When people come here from India, they're surprised that they're able to feel this much at home. And, I suppose I should mention that I've probably known more Indian people than most, given that my Godmother is from Bangalore. Though she and her husband are from India, they are actually Muslim.

Well idk,maybe connect with imams in other countries? Let them know,idk really.I dont know how to search myself.If you know of any good sites you can tell me in PM if you feel uncomfortable of sharing here.After 4 posts you are a full member and can pm.I sent you a link there btw let me know if you read it

I can tell you the sites I've used, but as to how good they are, I have no idea. I haven't had any bad experiences, at least! I really think we ought to have a thread for the purpose of finding a spouse here even, but the fact that I haven't been able to find one leads me to think it may not be allowed.



I honestly don't know, as things haven't aligned yet haha. But, generally I can tell if someone meets my criteria or not within one to three conversations, depending on how directly we are speaking. I have one potentially bad tendency though, and that is the ability to look at a person optimistically. I highly caution you regarding this as well. People who are close, or people I particularly like, I have waited for. And, obviously this has not lead me to anything other than the realization that I must carefully guard myself from developing feelings towards those that I am not compatible with. Right now I am facing another such situation, and I am walking a fine line between getting to know them (though I know they don't meet my criteria at this time) and getting invested in them. Know that you cannot change people. And do not miss the opportunity that is meant for you, chasing the one that is not. I'm telling myself this as much as you.

I did read your thread, and I'm truly glad that you have a clearer state of mind through coming to these forums. As many have mentioned, I'd just like to point out that being unable to pray in the way you would like to does not prevent you from trying to be Muslim. Allah does not need us, we are the ones in need. So, acknowledge that need in front of the one that sustains everything. Maintaining patience through any difficulty that you suffer in trying to align your intention to that of The One's will increase you. I do not believe it is Allah's intention that the righteous should suffer, but for the righteous suffering does no actual harm. It is simply a part of the reality we are aware of, a reality which is an illusion. I sometimes wonder if I chose this illusion.. but I cannot consider being anything other than what I am now, and now I choose to be here every day of my life. I have chosen this every day I have lived, with or without thinking about it. And for each day, well lived or not, I can say Alhamdulillah. Let us both be stronger in our resolve to live according to the truth.

They were both retorichal but one had to pretend it wasnt,to keep you going lol
Oh well,I think that if we send you on the mars mission you will definitely find some indian alien,though I doubt he will meet your criterias

Thank you for the advice sis.I found about it the hard way.And even though now my 6th sens gives me an answer whether someone is good for me or not, within 1 hour of talking,I am still a victim of "what if".Well if you ask me,I would tell you not to do both.If they dont meet your criterias you should just forget about it and go on.I think your criterias are already met by any person worthy enough to marry you so there is no reason in compromissing in those 4 basic ones

What do you mean with direct conversation? Face to face conversation or online ones count too?
I will wait for those sites names,and maybe you should use one of them again cuz,who knows


Here i didnt find a thread too but maybe because there arent many members.I sent you the link to a thread with the purpouse of finding a spouse but everybody seems like a potentional there.Its hard to differ who is exaggerating and who isnt.Thats what some brothers said,I didnt have time to check it myself yet

 

[Eien]

They were both retorichal but one had to pretend it wasnt,to keep you going lol

Sheesh... All this time you could've asked me about the origin of the universe, a proof of the directional nature of time, or what I consider the world to need most. But, then you would have had to ask me to stop. ;D

Oh well,I think that if we send you on the mars mission you will definitely find some indian alien,though I doubt he will meet your criterias

No need. My chances are pretty good here on Earth.

What do you mean with direct conversation? Face to face conversation or online ones count too?

Direct in reference to speech/content of conversation, the medium doesn't matter. In some instances I speak directly, and others not so much. I enjoy the variety that language has to offer. But, I also dislike being frivolous with time.. I say as I write this.. :facepalm: For example, I will directly tell you that I will not give up on my 4 main criteria. I do not believe such a baseless marriage would serve me.

Since you asked.. I used zawaj.com, spiritualsingles.com, okcupid (because I'm interested in its matching strategy, and the questions provide a very easy way to get clear information about a match, though it's not exactly aimed at marriage). Those are the ones I used the longest. A handful of others just didn't look appealing enough for me. That thread that you linked wasn't a thread.. it was the whole marriage board. Unless what you originally linked was removed, in which case not sure what happens.. What I was thinking of is a very basic personal ad type of thread, with one post per member interested in having a spouse. As circumstances change, the original post could be edited. Anyhow.. that board is not a place I would like to return to.

For the record, I do appreciate your helping me get to full member status. xD

 

[RisingLight]

Sheesh... All this time you could've asked me about the origin of the universe, a proof of the directional nature of time, or what I consider the world to need most. But, then you would have had to ask me to stop. ;D

What does Stop mean?

No need. My chances are pretty good here on Earth.

Sis,I meant that indians are so common in your life that even if you go to mars you would definitely find an indian.Didnt mean to offend you.Ofc your chances are pretty good here,you are a smart girl ma shaa Allah

But, I also dislike being frivolous with time..

Yeah,but dont think this convo is frivoulous,I am just keeping the ball in play cuz idk how to proceed.But I think you already know that.That was too direct,I am not an expert for these kind of stuff,but I am always welcoming to be guided,if you had any idea xp.... mg:
Lets suppose what I sent was a thread exactly as the one you are thinking,what would happen if 'things align'?
okcupid seems useful.I will try answering the questions now and will edit the post to let you know
Edit: BIG NOPE.that site made me +o(

For the record, I do appreciate your helping me get to full member status. xD

You are welcome.Progress started being made in the 3rd criteria lol.That was again too direct,ugh :facepalm:

 

[Eien]

What does Stop mean?

Is this a rhetorical question?

Now let me see if I've earned the right to be a full member..

 

[RisingLight]

Is this a rhetorical question?

Now let me see if I've earned the right to be a full member..

Well I guess that was it.Good luck in your search.Salam Alaikum

 

[Eien]

..perhaps I'm not really as full a member as green bar suggests? ^o) I did try to PM you.