truthseeker63's Corner in Comparative religion

Are all Christians Zionists ?

I was talking to a Muslim a few months ago in chat and she said that the Christians always side with the Zionists is this true or not ?
 
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Re: Are all Christians Zionists ?

I'd say it's not true. Everyone is different and has different point of views.
 
Re: Are all Christians Zionists ?

Christian Zionism---from my understanding, some Christians believe Jesus Christ (pbuh) will return(2nd comming) only when Jerusalem(holy land) belongs to the Jews......or somethng like that...and they want to actively participate in making this happen. Other Christians such as Catholics (Pope) feel that such matters are best left in God's hands and human beings should not interfere........Some Evangelical zionist send large amounts of donations to Isreal......perhaps today, Christian zionism may have taken on added urgency because of the enthusism about "end times"/apocalypse type beliefs among some Christians..?...
 
Re: Are all Christians Zionists ?

it's totally politically manipulated in order to suit their goals - the zionists hold that Jesus (pbuh) was an impostor and deserving of execution.
and the Christians hold that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus (pbuh) is on a highway to hell
and even then the zionists do not hold theteachings of Moses (pbuh) in the Torah to be binding,
worse still many zionists not only reject the teachings of Moses (pbuh) and the commandments of the Torah, but they aren't Jews by blood (reseach ashkenazi and khazar jews)
also - the crusaders expelled all jews from Jerusalem and refused to allow them back, it was only under Muslim rule that they were later allowed to re-settle.
check this link out, it should give you an idea of why it's pushed in churches - despite being a contradiction:

http://www.inminds.com/palestine-history-and-responsibility.html

here's a statement from a religious Jew who's people lived in perfect peace with protection under the Islamic state and now feel betrayed by the zionists:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiSP076_nVI&feature=related
 
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Trinitarians do Worship Three God's​
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Trinitarians often like to claim that they have a monotheistic belief, and that the Trinity is not the worship of 3 Gods rather it is the worship of One God. Basically they say the Trinity doctrine is as follow:

1- God is made up of 3 persons

2- The three persons are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

3- All three persons are distinct from each other, The Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Father etc.

4- Each person in the Trinity has a role of their own

5- Jesus is the Son in the Trinity

So basically that is the dogma of the Trinity.

Now let us show exactly why Christians do in fact worship three God's. As I said, the Trinity is made up of THREE people, these three people are all different than one another, it is basically exactly like having 3 people in an office, Tom Dick and Harry.

Now Christians say that Jesus is God, the Father is God, and so is the Holy Spirit. So therefore if you have three people, and each one of them is God then what are you left with? You are left with THREE Gods! This is logic!

If Tom Dick and Harry are each managers, how many managers do you have? You have three! Remember Trinity has THREE different persons, and each person is God, therefore you have three Gods and not one, there is no way around this mess.

Let us even make it simpler for people:

Muslim: Is Jesus God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: Is Jesus the Father?

Christian: No

Muslim: Is the Father God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: Is The Father Jesus?

Christian: No

Muslim: So these are 2 different persons?

Christian: Yes, 2 distinct different persons

Muslim: And both are God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: Is the Holy Spirit God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: Is the Holy Spirit the Father or Jesus?

Christian: No, the Holy Spirit is not

Muslim: So Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: And these are three different persons?

Christian: Yes

Muslim: So you have three persons, each one is God, how many is that?

Christian: Three, opppssss no no I meant One


It cannot get any simpler than that, Trinitarians worship THREE Gods and they cant deny it.

Now off course Trinitarians have come up with dozens and dozens of laughable analogies to make sense of the Trinity, however so my favorite analogy Christians bring up to make sense of the Trinity is the Family analogy.

The family analogy basically says this:

A Family is made up of more than one member, a Father, Mother, and Son. Yet the family is one family and not three families, the same with Trinity.

This is my favorite analogy, and it is one of the most deceptive analogies. The family statement is true, a family is made up of 2 or more persons, a typical basic family is a Husband, Wife, and son.

But here is the problem, Christians say that each person in the Trinity is God, remember Christians say Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is also God. So therefore using the Christian Trinity doctrine, that would basically mean that the husband is a family, the wife is a family, and the son is also a family!!!!!!! In a family we say that the husband wife and son MAKE UP A FAMILLY, we do not say that each specific member of the family is the family!

Just test this out for yourself, go ask any Christian, is Jesus God, they will immediately say YES!!!!!!!!!! AMENNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!! The Christian will not reply back by saying no Jesus is not God, but Jesus is part of God, you will NEVER hear this reply by a Christian, and I myself have never heard this from a Christian. So therefore the analogy FAILS since the analogy is not even close to Trinity, when you ask a husband are you a family sir? He will say I HAVE a family and yes I am in a family, but he will not say yes I am a family. So Christian Trinitarians have been very deceptive in their analogies and it seems they themselves don’t understand what Trinity even is!

Christians do not say No Jesus is not God, or no the Father is not God, Christians do not say that Jesus and the Father are part of God and make up God, they say that Jesus IS God, they say that the Father IS God. So the analogy crumbles. :)

And this analogy even makes more problems! You see folks, someone doesn’t come up to you alone and say are you a family? For instance if I was standing outside a shop all alone, a person would not ask me hey Sami are you a family? They would ask hey Sami are you in a family or do you have a family. So basically if we want to compare the Trinity to this family analogy, then this means that we should not ask Christians is Jesus God, we should ask Christians does Jesus have a God, does the Father have a God! Because the analogy is basically turning God into a family, so therefore this means God is made up of people, and is not one alone person, just like a family, so this means we should be asking the Christians does Jesus have a God rather than asking is Jesus God.

So as you can see, these analogies are so bad and deceptive they cause further problems for a Trinitarian. Trinitarians should simply accept the fact that they worship three God's, once doing so they will be able to throw this Trinity lie out the window and become a real monotheistic faith.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/it_is_three_gods.htm
 
In the Trinity, you have three relationships which are infinetly integrated within each other, yet distinct.
Each person is what he is for the other: He is Father of the Son; Son of the Father. One can not be without the other and the being of one implies the being of the other, and this eternal bond is the Holy Spirit. Perfect self-gift only native in God. Self-gift build into the very being of the person for he is a relationship within himself.

God granted this gift to man. What you did not notice is that one family is supposed to be one 'man' but sin divides it into many 'men'. Extra love required to see this. In one family also, each person of the three has become a relationship within himself or helself, and there is no going back. Once a father, always a father. once a mother always a mother, once a son/daugher always one. And a father implies a mother as well as a child. None of the three can be without the others. Even death can not remove these identities/bonds. Nothing can. They are eternal identity and with this eternal bonds, you have one being/man.

Sin bring selfishness, and causes people to see persons as separate 'man' in themselves and by themselves forgetting that they are what they are by the others. If you are a father, you are a father by the son/daughter and the mother, not by yourself. If you are a mother, you are so by the father and the son; if you are a daugher, you are so by the father and the mother.
When you realise that you are one with them, then, there is no more counting yourself as if you are one unconnected entity beside them.
Nop, you are one and in a way your destinies are bound together exactly as if you are one being. There is nothing that happens to the others which does not affect you personnaly. If this is the case, that's because sin has divided the family deeply.
Only God can separate the destinies of the persons connected with family bond. So if one choose a life of sin, the others will not share the consequences if they were 'born again' in the perfect family which can not sin and affect him negatively: God.
 
Amigo said:
In the Trinity, you have three relationships which are infinetly integrated within each other, yet distinct.
Each person is what he is for the other: He is Father of the Son; Son of the Father. One can not be without the other and the being of one implies the being of the other, and this eternal bond is the Holy Spirit. Perfect self-gift only native in God. Self-gift build into the very being of the person for he is a relationship within himself.

God granted this gift to man. What you did not notice is that one family is supposed to be one 'man' but sin divides it into many 'men'. Extra love required to see this. In one family also, each person of the three has become a relationship within himself or helself, and there is no going back. Once a father, always a father. once a mother always a mother, once a son/daugher always one. And a father implies a mother as well as a child. None of the three can be without the others. Even death can not remove these identities/bonds. Nothing can. They are eternal identity and with this eternal bonds, you have one being/man.

Sin bring selfishness, and causes people to see persons as separate 'man' in themselves and by themselves forgetting that they are what they are by the others. If you are a father, you are a father by the son/daughter and the mother, not by yourself. If you are a mother, you are so by the father and the son; if you are a daugher, you are so by the father and the mother.
When you realise that you are one with them, then, there is no more counting yourself as if you are one unconnected entity beside them.
Nop, you are one and in a way your destinies are bound together exactly as if you are one being. There is nothing that happens to the others which does not affect you personnaly. If this is the case, that's because sin has divided the family deeply.
Only God can separate the destinies of the persons connected with family bond. So if one choose a life of sin, the others will not share the consequences if they were 'born again' in the perfect family which can not sin and affect him negatively: God.
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So much words, but none from God and none from Jesus (pbuh). In fact, these words are against everything God commanded and Jesus (pbuh) taught.
 
truthseeker63 said:
God is a personal being right ?
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truthseeker63 said:
What does everyone think ?
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We only describe God as He has described Himself, and don't make up categorisations for Him as other faiths have done. They have all followed what they think, or what their leaders of old personally have thought, their own interpretations of God, and have thus gone astray.

I don't know of any place where God has said, "I am a personal being."

However I do know that He has said the following:

Sahih International
".....There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the Hearing, the Seeing." (42:11, part)

Muhsin Khan
And He it is Who originates the creation, then will repeat it (after it has been perished), and this is easier for Him. His is the highest description (i.e. none has the right to be worshipped but He, and there is nothing comparable unto Him) in the heavens and in the earth. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. (30:27)

May Allah forgive me if I said anything wrong, and He knows best in all matters.
 
truthseeker63 said:
Do Christians and or Muslims believe in a different Jesus and a different Christ both believe he had a virgin birth born to the virgin Mary and was and is the Messiah but Christians believe Jesus Christ is God's Son and was divine and died for Mankind's sins therefor I ask is it the same Jesus in both Christianity and or Islam ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Christianity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam
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His real name was not Jesus, of course.

But yes, while muslims believe Jesus/Eesa (pbuh) is a messenger and prophet, current christians believe he is son of god/part of god/god.
 
In my view it is possible that Muslims and Christians don't have the same Jesus.
 
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truthseeker63 said:
In my view it is possible that Muslims and Christians don't have the same Jesus.
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It is the same Jesus (peace be upon him). Allah talks about Jesus (peace be upon him) in the Qur'an and points out some of the erroneous beliefs that people have made about him.

truthseeker63 said:
The difference is in the significance given to them by Christianity, which is far higher than the significance that Islam gives them.
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I must respectfully disagree here.

The Jews rejected Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) altogether.
The Christians went to the other extreme and elevated his status to divine.
The Muslims, went to neither of those two extremes, and believe in him as he was, one of the noblest of humanity to ever walk the face of the earth, and one of the mightiest messengers sent by God.

We respect and love Jesus, as God who sent him intended him to be respected and loved. We worship the same God that Jesus (peace be upon him) did. We prostrate how he did. Muslim women dress like his pure mother Mary (peace be upon her) did. We don't eat pork, just as he didn't. We believe in the message that God sent him with, not the erroneous beliefs of people who never met him and came years after.

Muslims give Jesus the siginificance that God gave him and believe in him with that exact God-given siginificance; nothing more, and nothing less.

Sahih International
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.(5:72)

Sahih International
[Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path." (19:36)

Sahih International
Jesus was not but a servant upon whom We bestowed favor, and We made him an example for the Children of Israel. (43:59)

Sahih International
Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."(2:136)

Peace.
 
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Insaanah said:

It is the same Jesus (peace be upon him). Allah talks about Jesus (peace be upon him) in the Qur'an and points out some of the erroneous beliefs that people have made about him.
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Assalamu alaikum, I agree with what you wrote here that Muslims respect 'Isa (alayhi salam) as he deserves to be respected - as among the most noble of men and an honorable Messenger of Allah (swt).
 

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