truthseeker63's Corner

[Grace Seeker]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Karl, I believe you confuse the concept of race and species. Though in the past there were different species of our genus, today there is only one species of human being.

No one is arguing that we are all the same, but the differences that exist between people are not a sufficiently useful tool to classify people into races. The most common classification device, skin color, does not correlate well with other noted markers. And when we go beneath the skin, to group people based on DNA differences would to give us some 6 billion different races of one individual each.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets



Yes, I am aware of such ahadeeth, but please tell me which part it says that Rasulullah "hated" dogs? You said "apparently prophet Muhammad hate dogs".

Also, as far as I am aware, the killing of dogs apply to rabid dogs only, and we know that today rabid dogs carry rabies.

Here's good explanation on such hadiths that deal with dogs: http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/islam_and_the_killing_of_dogs and http://www.shafiifiqh.com/?p=1668

Brother, do you really think Rasulullah SAW was wrong when he issued injunctions concerning dogs?

peace brother - another serious crime is to just jump at it without allowing someone who made a genuine comment explain it, without implying that they are making a false attribution:

From Muslim #5248
Maimuna reported that one morning Allah’s Messenger was silent with grief. Maimuna said: Allah’s Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah’s Messenger said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me tonight, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises, and Allah’s Messenger spent the day in this sad mood. Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He commanded and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it at that place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. Then on that very morning he commanded the killing of the dogs until he announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog meant for the protection of extensive fields or big gardens.
From Muslim #Number 055
Ibn Mughaffal reported: The Messenger of Allah ordered killing of the dogs, and then said: What about them, i. e. about other dogs? and then granted concession (to keep) the dog for hunting and the dog for (the security) of the herd, and said: When the dog licks the utensil, wash it seven times, and rub it with earth the eighth time.

From Muslim #3814
Ibn Mughaffal reported: Allah's messenger ordered the killing of dogs and then said, "what is the trouble with them (the people of Medina? How dogs are nuisances to them (the citizens of Medina)? He then permitted keeping of dogs for hunting and (the protection of) herds. ...[and for] for the protection of cultivated land.

and regarding the brother who made the comment on pigs, please research the Hadith regarding Jesus (pbuh) and the killing of pigs, (and according to the bible he killed 2000 of them 2000 years ago - maybe a sign) - i don't know if it meant literally pigs - or corrupt law enforcement officers - who are also referred to as pigs in slang - but yes - it does say he will slay the pigs. angry birds is a good one where all the angry birds go on suicide missions to kill all the pigs .
and before you go crazy at me for saying that - it was a joke, and i watched armageddon and thought bruce willis was a hero when he blew himself up to save the people .

 

[MartyrX]

Re: Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets

From my understanding it's the saliva that is unclean and causes problems. Especially with prayer and such. I've had dogs my whole life, I still have a dog. Some people don't like it, but he's a great dog that was with me during rough times. And he's been far more loyal than most people I have met in my life.

 

[Abz2000]

Re: Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets

Yes, I am aware of such ahadeeth, but please tell me which part it says that Rasulullah "hated" dogs? You said "apparently prophet Muhammad hate dogs".

Also, as far as I am aware, the killing of dogs apply to rabid dogs only, and we know that today rabid dogs carry rabies.

Here's good explanation on such hadiths that deal with dogs:

Brother, do you really think Rasulullah SAW was wrong when he issued injunctions concerning dogs?

i don't think the messenger of God (may peace be upon him) was wrong, and i didn't say he was, all i said was that he hated them, which is i will make it clear - my own opinion - judging form from the hadith that he ordered them to be killed after he found that angels don't enter the house with dogs, if he liked them, he would have just made sure none came into his house, and regarding your comment on rabid dogs, it was also the dogs kept for the orchards, which i assume would not be rabid, but just because the Messenger (pbuh) personally disliked garlic, he told us to continue to eat it if we pleased, that was different, but the fact that angels don't enter a house with dogs does imply that there is something impure about them, don't get me wrong, i like certain dogs myself, but won't let them try to lick me, i even stroke them, i used to grab my cousin's rottweiler by the throat, throw it on the floor and let it gnaw away at my hand when playing with it, now i wouldn't.
and i know that some dogs are very loyal to their owner as was the dog from surah kahf. but there are many things which were allowed before -prophet yusuf's parents prostrated themselves to him - that doesn't in any way mean that muslims are allowed to prostrate to any human being. Prophet Sulaiman had images of lions etc built as display ornaments, there could have been an exception as moses (pbuh) forbade it, so did the Prophet Muhammad.

also despite the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) making such an order - he did say that a ***** woman from the Children of Israel was forgiven for feeding water to a thirsty dog - from the description, it would be easy to assume that it was a rabid dog and not a domestic one, here he is showing the benefits of a kind heart and a considerate person, but it didn't mean he would allow them to prevent the revelation of God come to the people by defiling the visiting place.

quite a complicated issue - one would have to take the time to think, yet it would be good for us to be able to present relevant information which contributes to the topic without attacking each other.

but thanks to your pointed question - i will yield and admit that it is my own opinion taken from the texts,
any good is from Almighty God's guidance
any evil is from the misguidance of Satan,
peace

 

[Who Am I?]

Re: Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets

From my understanding it's the saliva that is unclean and causes problems. Especially with prayer and such. I've had dogs my whole life, I still have a dog. Some people don't like it, but he's a great dog that was with me during rough times. And he's been far more loyal than most people I have met in my life.

My dogs were there for me before Islam when no one else was, and they will be there after Islam when no one else will be.

I thought the Messenger (saws) had dogs himself, or am I wrong?

 

[Abz2000]

Re: I found this on Yahoo Answers I would like to ask as a white male myself with nat

firstly - the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was what would be considered amongst the Arabs as a "white man"
and Bilal (ra) was what would be considered amongst the Arabs as a "black man"
Suhaib ar-Rumi was a roman and therefore "extra-white"
then you had everything in between.

truthseeker man! you are a truthseeker - i can't believe how an obscure poster got you down!

personally - i show extra reverence and have some inward magnetic pull towards converts - don't ask me why but it's possibly because i feel that they are more open minded and have taken the decision to seek the truth and accept it.

i don't always get too conversational with all types of "already Muslims" because many (NOT ALL) of them just follow it without knowing why it's better or the truth or makes sense, they just follow it because it was the religion of their forefathers, some of them even get offended if you bring up certain points to prove how it makes sense, as if you're trying to sway their faith or something!
if you ask them why they follow it rather than another specific faith - they get stuck and give you answers that wouldn't hold - and would definitely make an interested prospective Muslim think twice!

but with the reverts - it's a totally different ball game - they can tell you a million different reasons and can debate with many others simply because they have evaluated all points before making the decision to accept.
yes - you do get oafs on cnn or cbs who say they were seeking which religion fitted their likes and dislikes, conveniences etc (as if it was buying something at a supermarket) and then chose a certain one because it fitted their desires,
what a joke! why go out seeking to be bound by something if it's not the truth?!
i remember asking one (intellectual type with glasses and a lawyer/doctor like frown) white guy in his late forties in a mosque why he accepted Islam, and he said something so simple yet profound that will stay with me forever: "because it's the truth" he said it in such a matter of fact way that i was grinning from ear to ear.

and if you let "what older muslim's might think of me" get to you - you sincerely need to study more and seek the approval of the shepherd not that of the sheep.
or you'll develop some inferiority complex that will leave you insecure.

54. O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.
55. Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).
56. As to those who turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of Allah that must certainly triumph.
57. O ye who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but fear ye Allah, if ye have faith (indeed).
58. When ye proclaim your call to prayer they take it (but) as mockery and sport; that is because they are a people without understanding.
Quran 5:54

peace

 

[Futuwwa]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

No, race is not a myth.

A race is a sub-population within a species whose members have many of a certain set of characteristics specific to that race. These characteristics become common through inbreeding mostly, and to a lesser degree through microevolution. That's what race is, nothing less nor more. It's a matter of classification, not objective fact, but it is absurd to claim that the concept is invalid in itself. Nobody contests the validity of the concept when it comes to animals, so why make an exception out of political correctness?

On the other hand, mixed-race is something of a contradiction. Since race is a specific combination of traits (and the genes that cause them), it's fallacious to claim partial "belonging" to a race simply due to having part of those characteristics. A person whose parents are pure-breeds from different races simply belongs to no race at all, being unique and unclassifiable. Due to the random nature of how genes mix in breeding, two "mixed-race" kids can be very different genetically, even if they are siblings. Much more different than pure-breed siblings would be from each other.

-Herr Futuwwa Der Ras-Doktor

 

[Karl]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Karl, I believe you confuse the concept of race and species. Though in the past there were different species of our genus, today there is only one species of human being.

No one is arguing that we are all the same, but the differences that exist between people are not a sufficiently useful tool to classify people into races. The most common classification device, skin color, does not correlate well with other noted markers. And when we go beneath the skin, to group people based on DNA differences would to give us some 6 billion different races of one individual each.

Sorry I don't believe in your hypothesis, I believe in many different kinds of homonids not one. Not to mention all the hybrids. Your science is out of date. There is no need to get political as truth is beyond politics. A little Pygmy From the Congo cannot be the same species as a big Norseman, you would have to be insane to believe they are the same species.

 

[Futuwwa]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

If that little Pygmy and that big Norseman can breed and produce fertile offspring, they belong by definition to the same species. And as of yet, no two races have been found out to be incapable of producing fertile offspring together.

 

[Abz2000]

Re: In my opinion the American Presidents and most U.S. Politicians are Puppets of Zi

yes, though i thought kennedy was changing the people's perceptions of right and wrong fast, but he had to go huh.......
.....can't have people putting out good ideas now can we?
i mean - "we" serve the people - so it's our job to keep them naked in public and barbaric, on intoxicating liquids and other substances,
hey - even those people waking up is a threat to our tyranny over their minds, actually - it's the "central global menace" that "threatens our global preponderance".

watch?v=Ttv6n7PFniY

that's the man obama (the man who got a nobel peace prize for doing nothing - and now is bankrupting the global economy through more wars than bush)takes his inspiration from.

and regarding the "elections", why are they constantly pushing to turn it all digital?

watch?v=YcxGGnmRQAs


also check out the featured video on my yt channel : youtube / user / abz2000123

tell me they weren't pacifying the would be jolted awake muslims by claiming it wasn't a war against Islam from the start:

Sir Campbell Bannerman, [Prime Minister of Britain (1905-08)]
“ There are people who control spacious territories teeming with manifest and hidden resources. They dominate the intersections of world routes. Their lands were the cradles of human civilizations and religions. These people have one faith, one language, one history and the same aspirations. No natural barriers can isolate these people from one another ... if, per chance, this nation were to be unified into one state, it would then take the fate of the world into its hands and would separate Europe from the rest of the world. Taking these considerations seriously, a foreign body should be planted in the heart of this nation to prevent the convergence of its wings in such a way that it could exhaust its powers in never-ending wars. It could also serve as a springboard for the West to gain its coveted objects.” - 1902

Lord Zetland [March 24, 1940, British Secretary of State for the colonial India]
“[T]he call of Islam is one which transcends the bounds of country. It may have lost some force as a result of the abolition of Caliphate by Mustafa Kamal Pasha, but it still has a very considerable appeal as witness for example Jinnah’s insistence on our giving undertaking that Indian troops should never be employed against any Muslim state, and the solicitude which he has constantly expressed for the Arabs of Palestine.”


President Bush
“The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region, and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia"
“The murderous ideology of the Islamic radicals is the great challenge of our new century. Yet, in many ways, this fight resembles the struggle against communism in the last century."


**** Cheney [Vice President, Speech in Sydney, Australia February 2007]

" ...And it is they, the terrorists, who have ambitions of empire. Their goal in the broader Middle East is to seize control of a country, so they have a base from which they can launch attacks against governments that refuse to meet their demands. Their ultimate aim -- and one they boldly proclaim -- is to establish a caliphate covering a region from Spain, across North Africa, through the Middle East and South Asia, all the way to Indonesia. And it wouldn't stop there.
...The war on terror is more than a contest of arms, and more than a test of will. It is a battle of ideas...."


and we know who's "murderous" illegal wars have killed over two million people in the last two decades.
i don't think obl could even dream of that - not that i believe he was the mastermind behind 9/11

peace,

 

[Abz2000]

Re: In my opinion the American Presidents and most U.S. Politicians are Puppets of Zi

put it this way: that dude doesn't even know how many states there are in the us, he claims he visited 57 of them with 1 left to go - and that's without alaska and hawaii.
the best thing he ever did was learn to read of a teleprompter,

notice how he normally looks fleft and right evenly whaen speaking, this time he pulls to the right immediately: watch?v=Jiow64UjuQQ

he even uses the thing when talking to elementary school kids: watch?v=LVpOH4MGPBg

when he loses the lines - this is what happens: watch?v=of61E1FesPU

This is only under 2 minutes of a campaign speech, Imagine if someone made a compilation of lies!!!
watch?v=FqKnVr3I9q8

watch?v=mgTgenwl2aA

the whole thing's a theatre of fraud
watch?v=W_ZL3Vcb0RA

 

[Abz2000]

Re: Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets

k o 9's, you normally give great info in your posts, however i see you are very attached to your dogs, and i can wholly understand that,

but the comment: "and they will be there after Islam when no one else will be". make it sounds as if they are more important than your eternal life, your choice, many muslims have dogs but build them a great and cozy kennel in the garden, and if i wanted to keep mine - i would personally do that just to make sure my prayers are witnessed.
- i try to even avoid praying in my bedroom and just pray in my son's room because it feels cleaner - though that's not a requirement.
the choice is yours and no one can push you to believe something you refuse to believe in.
remember - some companions had more than four wives, and had to divorce the extra ones just to stay within the limits of Islam, now - THAT would be a hard choice.
some new Muslim women divorce their husbands even though they love them simply because they develop a stronger love their creator, life is full of trials and tests, some Muslims gave up their lives under torture simply because they refused to say there were other gods besides Almighty God, bilal, and the first ever martyr was not a "terrorist", she was stabbed with a spear by abu Jahl in the private parts because she refused to give up her faith, after reading about all that, i would seriously think of building a large cozy kennel where you can give them a shower and a wii and a flatscreen tv and a laptop and some books and some bones, and let them go out for walks whenever, but allow my house to remain clean, but my advice is of no use if you refuse to think about it, your comment seemed quite tough on yourself and the shakiness of your faith, you won't benefit me or anyone else from taking heed. remember - everything that you give priority to above almighty God becomes an idol which comes between you and the truth.
I'M NOT TELLING YOU TO GET RID OF THEM, JUST BUILD THEM A BIG HOUSE SEPARATE FROM YOUR LIVING AND PRAYING QUARTERS, they can feel stronger than family at times, i know, mine used to follow me all the way to the bazaar when i went to Bangladesh, it used to stare at me when i got on the coach bound for town, and come running to the border of the village when it heard me coming or when i called it's name.
read sister riham's post on "how i became a muslim" - or paste this into the search box:

“There’s no such thing as God!”

That’s what I believed most of my childhood thanks to the teachings of my parents.


it's a heart wrenching story of willingness to sacrifice,
peace

 

[Karl]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

If that little Pygmy and that big Norseman can breed and produce fertile offspring, they belong by definition to the same species. And as of yet, no two races have been found out to be incapable of producing fertile offspring together.

A lion and a tiger can interbreed does that mean a tiger and a lion is the same species?
Scientists have found hybrids in the plants and animals, slowly new species are emerging from this cross breeding of different species.

 

[Futuwwa]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

A lion and a tiger cannot produce fertile offspring. That's why they are different species. Not so pygmies and Norsemen.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets

As sister May Ayob said, I think this is more of a cultural argument than a religious one. I'm used to being around dogs: I love them and have no fear of them. A lot of people here are the opposite. They do not like dogs and fear them. Does that make me better than them? No, it doesn't. It just means I was raised in a different environment with a different attitude about dogs.

You are right that we should differentiate what culture is and what deen is.
In short, if it has basis in Qur'an and Sunnah, then it is not culture.

For example: like and dislikes of dogs is certainly culture, because there is nothing in Qur'an and sunnah that says we must like/dislike dogs.
BUT dog's saliva is impure is not culture, because Rasulullah SAW clearly said that it is impure.

Before I was Muslim, I used to eat pork and thought nothing of it. Now I don't eat it anymore out of respect for my new way of life. But if I had to eat pork, I could, and I wouldn't think anything of it. Again, that's a cultural thing. I grew up eating pork so to me it's no big deal. It doesn't make me any better than anyone else here.

Brother, pork is made impermissible by Allah SWT, as He says more than once in the Qur'an:

O you who have believed, eat from the good things which We have provided for you and be grateful to Allah if it is [indeed] Him that you worship.
He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (QS. 2:172-173)

Then eat of what Allah has provided for you [which is] lawful and good. And be grateful for the favor of Allah , if it is [indeed] Him that you worship.
He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit] - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (QS. 16:114-115)

Unlike other religion, such as christianity where you are allowed to pick and choose, Islam is a complete religion, and we must accept it as totality, most especially when it comes to the words of Allah SWT.

Even 'Eesa (pbuh) never ate pork and never abrogated the dietary laws, and only saul of tarsus who later claimed 'Eesa (pbuh) had abrogated mosaic laws.

 

[Who Am I?]

Re: Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets



Well to be clear, I have avoided pork since taking my shahada. I was merely stating that if I was starving to death and pork was all that was left, I could eat it and not feel guilty about it. I should have been more clear about that, and it's my fault.

I won't deny that I am having a hard time right now with some things in my life. Some of those are related to my faith, and others are unrelated. It is something that I am trying to sort out, both through prayer and therapy. I don't always understand why some things are the way they are in Islam, and that is something I will have to deal with.

Dogs are really a trivial issue right now compared to the other things I am dealing with. But the subject of dogs is one that I am very familiar with, which is why I comment a lot about it. I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything, and if I came across that way, I apologize.

 

[SFatima]

Re: Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets

There's a whole lot of more perspective on dogs and pets than just this. Islam doesn't say to hate or dislike dogs, it regulates how one should keep them, in good care, distinguishing how well to take care of OURSELVES around them too, which is only reasonable. Dogs, cats, pets all are lovely creatures, but even cats give diseases and eczema and allergies to people and that doesn't mean that we start hating them, we still are to feed them take care of them if we have them as pets but just maintain a distance for our own good.

Did you know that the pet food industry in US alone is around a 19-30 billion dollar industry every year? By estimates, Americans spend more on dogs than they ever spend on poverty and human beings. Are humans less deserving of care than the dogs are? Ofcorse dogs, like all animals have been given the skills to survive on their own and can manage without being fed all those special dog foods and what not. I'm not saying that people shouldn't take care of pets, its just that we get so engrossed in our pets that we forget humans around us, because well its take more effort to relate to humans than it does to pets, you just give them food, take them out for a walk and they're happy, humans; not so easy. ;p

And if you look at poor countries, in Africa, people survive on less than 2 dollar a week, in drought, disease and misery. Are we spending our money sensibly?

http://www.americanpetproducts.org/press_industrytrends.asp

 

[ardianto]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

People who support Darwinism believe that human classified by species, like animals. But people who do not support Darwinism believe that human classified by races, because human are not animals.

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y



The Chinese, from what I have learned, view race more from a cultural view point. So a true Chinese, ie a Han Chinese, is defined as a person who practices the Chinese culture fully. The people living on the borders of China are viewed as barbarians because they do not practice Chinese culture which is considered to be the ultimate culture. When the barbarians on the borders attack and conquer China, they eventually become absorbed by Chinese culture. If they practice Chinese culture fully, then they become Han Chinese, ie true Chinese. Skin color is not the defining factor in China. There are Chinese who are big, dark and hairy like the people of Shantung and they are never considered non-Chinese.

 

[Mujahideen92]

Re: Can a Muslim still like Dogs I know Muslims are not allowed to keep Dogs as pets

Dogs are fine in Islam but what is wrong is if a dog licks you and then you do prayer with dog saliva on you. And of course of the dog urinates in your house that is another problem. Its why it is best to just not have a dog.