truthseeker63's Corner

[Karl]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Scientifically speaking, what he has said doesn't even make any sense, because current scientific endeavors determined that all humans came from a single ancestor in east africa more than a hundred thousands years ago.

I reject that "Out Of Africa" Marxist nonsense. It has not been proven, it is just a stupid theory. Don't get the idea that the only alternative to look to apart from Islam is "modern science". I don't simply TRUST modern science anyway because it is often POLITICALLY motivated. That's the problem with it. The academic institutions are overrun with treacherous pseudo-intellectual Marxist zealots who are hellbent in rationalizing monogenism. Frankly I don't mind admitting that I feel totally comfortable in having absolutely no inner conflict in regards to my hatred towards them either, given that the global imperialists just LOVE monogenism because it serves their purpose VERY well. They use it as if to say "Hey seeing you are all our own species then what we want to push on you must therefore be GOOD for you too!". So the Marxists are MORE than happy that the vast majority of Muslims happen to AGREE with their monogenism! Global imperialists utterly HATE me because they know my polygenist stance is inimical to their political agendas of neo-imperialism and cultural genocide.

 

[Karl]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

What gives you this mad idea that we arent all offspring of Adam and Eve.

As I said before, I am NOT outright denying Adam and Eve, BUT I will never buy that ALL human races around the entire planet come from one SINGLE PAIR of Adam and Eve, sorry if you don't like that. That idea is utterly absurd as far as I'm concerned. I believe instead that the Adam and Eve story must surely be of the following three possibilities:

A) It's purely metaphorically based in a way we don't fully understand, or B) there was actually one Adam and Eve that created people BUT back in those times the concept of the "world" and "mankind" was far from what their definitions are generally concieved of being today, it was far far more limited, and so my own species wasn't simply even taken into account when the story was revealed. Or C) there were MULTIPLE Adams and Eves, and all the many different human races descended from them. You need to remember that both Christians and Muslims believe in the Adam and Eve story, but there have been some Christians who have believed in polygenism and multiple Adams and Eves, so THEREFORE why can't Muslims as well?? It doesn't seem to make sense to me that only Christians can believe in it but not Muslims.

Chimps have 90% human dna does that mean chimps are a species of humans? Of course not.

But the many different human races are not also 100% the same in DNA either!!, so it just depends where one wants to draw the line! You are also wrong that chimps have only 90% of same DNA to humans. It has been known for a long time that chimps have 99% the same DNA as humans! And gorillas are also in the late 90s. If you insist on the notion that all human races are the same species because you think their different DNA is "close enough" then I will also insist that CHIMPS AND GORILLAS ARE HUMANS seeing they are 99% the same in DNA! CLOSE ENOUGH FOR ME!:statisfie

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

BUT I will never buy that ALL human races around the entire planet come from one SINGLE PAIR of Adam and Eve

Since you are so sure that there are many pairs of Adams and Eves, you wouldn't, by any chance, also believe that all these many pairs of Adams and Eves are also not created by just one god but rather by a pantheon of gods?

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

I reject that "Out Of Africa" Marxist nonsense. It has not been proven, it is just a stupid theory. Don't get the idea that the only alternative to look to apart from Islam is "modern science". I don't simply TRUST modern science anyway because it is often POLITICALLY motivated. That's the problem with it. The academic institutions are overrun with treacherous pseudo-intellectual Marxist zealots who are hellbent in rationalizing monogenism. Frankly I don't mind admitting that I feel totally comfortable in having absolutely no inner conflict in regards to my hatred towards them either, given that the global imperialists just LOVE monogenism because it serves their purpose VERY well. They use it as if to say "Hey seeing you are all our own species then what we want to push on you must therefore be GOOD for you too!". So the Marxists are MORE than happy that the vast majority of Muslims happen to AGREE with their monogenism! Global imperialists utterly HATE me because they know my polygenist stance is inimical to their political agendas of neo-imperialism and cultural genocide.

Whats all these rant for?

Read again, I was replying to NoblemuslimUK, not you.

Also, you reject what Allah SWT said about our ancestry, and you reject current science belief as well.

I am also showing you what you are in plain words.

 

[Karl]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Whats all these rant for?

Read again, I was replying to NoblemuslimUK, not you.

Yes but you were REFERRING to me. You were indirectly attacking me. So that's why I replied.

Also, you reject what Allah SWT said about our ancestry, and you reject current science belief as well.

So seeing I reject what you interpret Allah (SWT) as saying, are you therefore suggesting that I should leave Islam?

 

[Karl]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Since you are so sure that there are many pairs of Adams and Eves, you wouldn't, by any chance, also believe that all these many pairs of Adams and Eves are also not created by just one god but rather by a pantheon of gods?

No, I believe that the many Adams and Eves were created only by ALLAH (SWT).

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

No, I believe that the many Adams and Eves were created only by ALLAH (SWT).

Let's go back to the basics then.

1. A person is deemed to be a Muslim when he (I shall use 'he' to denote both 'he' and 'she' as a matter of convenience) proclaims the Kalimmah Shuhadah ie the Twin Declaration of Faith.

2. The first and foremost thing to keep in mind, as a Muslim, is that a person is deemed to be a Muslim only as long as he lives according to the meaning and substance, both overt and covert, of the Kalimmah Shuhadah. As a very rough analogy, consider what happens when a witness takes the stand in a court of law. He swears that he will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Henceforth his testimony is accepted by the court but only to the extent that he is adhering to what he has sworn to do right at the beginning. The moment he does not tell the truth, or tells the truth but not the whole truth or tells the whole truth plus some untruth, his testimony is null and void. Likewise for a Muslim. The moment he says or does, whether in jest or in earnest, something that is not in line with the Kalimmah Shuhadah, he is no longer considered to be a Muslim.

3. The Holy Quran is the word of Allah revealed through the Holy Prophet s.a.w.

4. The Holy Quran states clearly that there is only one Adam (as the forefather of all mankind) and there is only one Eve (as the foremother of all mankind).

5. A person cannot, at the one and same time, claim to be a Muslim and yet insist that the Holy Quran is not telling the truth about Adam and Eve.

6. In a nutshell, you either are a Muslim and believe in the truth of the Holy Quran OR you do not believe that the Holy Quran is true AND you are not a Muslim. You cannot be a Muslim and not believe that the Holy Quran is true just as you cannot believe the Holy Quran is false and still be a Muslim.

I hope I have expressed myself clearly enough. WaLLahu aklam.

Footnote:

Just so there is no confusion about whether I am making a judgement about something which I cannot evaluate, consider this scenario:

I see a man having sexual intercourse with a woman who is not his wife. I have no way of knowing what is going on in their hearts and minds. For all I know, they could very well be thinking and believing that they are husband and wife and are therefor doing something perfectly right. All I can see is that they are committing a sin and therefor I have to judge them according to what I can see only.

 

[Karl]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

@ThisOldMan
Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word. It is like the Noahs flood story. If you took that literally as total fact word for word you would have to be insane. As the flood was only in a small area, it is impossible that the whole world was under water.

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word.

Why not? Or perhaps you don't even literally accept the existence of Allah? I think if you can tell us clearly how you view the existence of Allah, it may help us to understand your unconventional viewpoint about the Quran.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

@ThisOldMan
Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word. It is like the Noahs flood story. If you took that literally as total fact word for word you would have to be insane. As the flood was only in a small area, it is impossible that the whole world was under water.

Not sure where you get your information, but they are definitely not Qur'an.
Nowhere in the qur'an it says that the whole world was under water during Noah's flood.

As I previously said, maybe it's time for you to actually read the Qur'an.

 

[Tyrion]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word. It is like the Noahs flood story. If you took that literally as total fact word for word you would have to be insane. As the flood was only in a small area, it is impossible that the whole world was under water.

Bro, I don't want to sound condescending, but seriously... Go attend some classes or listen to some lectures. I don't think you have bad intentions, and you seem fairly sincere... But you keep showing a lack of basic Islamic knowledge, so it doesn't seem right that you're making all these arguments against basic Islamic beliefs that you don't seem to fully understand. The Quran doesn't mention a world wide flood, but instead hints at a local flood. You seem to think it's the same as the Christian story however, which is a problem... Islam is not Christianity.

 

[Karl]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Why not? Or perhaps you don't even literally accept the existence of Allah? I think if you can tell us clearly how you view the existence of Allah, it may help us to understand your unconventional viewpoint about the Quran.

The Prophet said that Allah was beyond comprehension.
So you cannot refute something that is beyond comprehension can you? Basically if no one really knows what Allah is how can they say Allah does not exist. The ones that feel God know, the ones that don't are lost. I personally don't get hung up on people calling Allah different names or worshiping in different ways.

 

[Karl]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Not sure where you get your information, but they are definitely not Qur'an.
Nowhere in the qur'an it says that the whole world was under water during Noah's flood.

As I previously said, maybe it's time for you to actually read the Qur'an.

I did read the Quran. It is the final book and does not go into much detail of these ancient stories. The only mistake I found was that a translation error began from the scriptures of one of the quotes of Jesus "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven" the mistake is "camel" it should have been "rope". The error occured because the Aramaic word for rope and camel are very similar. Simply the flaw in the Bible was carried on to the Quran.

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

I did read the Quran

In the original Arabic? Or the translated version? If so, which translation, please?

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

Simply the flaw in the Bible was carried on to the Quran.

It is easy to say 'laa Ilaaha IlAllaahu" (there is no God but Allah).
However, the declaration of shahada must be followed also by submission of the heart and action, that is, if we claim there is no God but Allah it should translate that as The creator of everything, Allah knows everything, does not make error and does not lie.
However, in your posts in this thread at least, what you have you done is basically stating that
1. Allah made error with the Qur'an
2. You know better than Allah

This two alone invalidate your shahada.

You can rant whataver you want, but this is what other people see from you.

By the way,
We keep asking you to produce your proof from the Qur'an verses where it says Allah uses metaphore with Adam and Eve (pbut) and where does Allah say that Noah's flood was worldwide.
If you can't, you akin of attributing lies to Allah SWT.

 

[Abz2000]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

brother ramadan, the noah's flood part confuses me too, although many have argued that it wasn't the whole earth - i grew up since childhood thinking it was the whole earth,
and this verse:[TABLE="width: 100%, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]26. And Noah, said: "O my Lord! Leave not of the Unbelievers, a single one on earth!
27. "For, if Thou dost leave (any of) them, they will but mislead Thy devotees, and they will breed none but wicked ungrateful ones.
28. "O my Lord! Forgive me, my parents, all who enter my house in Faith, and (all) believing men and believing women: and to the wrong-doers grant Thou no increase but in perdition!"
Chapter 71- Yusuf Ali Translation


the Arabic word used is Al Ard, which translates into english either earth or land, or sometimes both.
that's what gets me thinking - which one is it?

Yusuf Ali himself uses Ard-ina to refer to our land in Ta-Ha
He said: "Hast thou come to drive us out of our land with thy magic, O Moses?
Quran 20:57.

so i'm thinking maybe he thought Noah's flood was universal - since he used "earth" in that chapter despite knowing both meanings.

the first verses of Chapter Nuh however seem to imply that he was sent to a certain people and not to mankind:

1. We sent Noah to his People (with the Command): "Do thou warn thy People before there comes to them a grievous Penalty."2. He said: "O my People! I am to you a Warner, clear and open:
Chapter 71

we see here that the word Qawmaka (your people) is used rather than anNaas (mankind).
still - because i don't know - i don't reject either in case one's wrong.
and it seems quite obvious that all creatures would not fit on a single ship.

to me it looks like the Quran is pointing to a certain nation, but i am still concerned about rejecting the other possibility just in case i'm wrong.
any advice?

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y

br. abz2000, I am nowhere knowedgeable about Qur'an, however, I know for a fact that nowhere in the Qur'an where it is said that Nuh's flood was worldwide, and this is what Karl said:

Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word. It is like the Noahs flood story. If you took that literally as total fact word for word you would have to be insane. As the flood was only in a small area, it is impossible that the whole world was under water.

It is clear to anyone who can read that Karl believes that Qur'an says Nuh's flood was worldwide and hence should not be believed literally.
He also does not believe that Qur'an is from Allah SWT:

The only mistake I found was that a translation error began from the scriptures of one of the quotes of Jesus "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven" the mistake is "camel" it should have been "rope". The error occured because the Aramaic word for rope and camel are very similar. Simply the flaw in the Bible was carried on to the Quran.

Have you ever met any muslim who does not believe that Qur'an is from Allah SWT?

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

Re: I know humans don't all look the same but could race just be a myth people 1000 y



From what I was taught, all the prophets before Muhammed s.a.w. were sent only for their own people. Only Muhammed was sent for all people for all time until Kiamat.

So obviously Noah a.s. was sent only to his people. Whether the flood covered the whole planet or only certain parts of it does not change the fact that all human beings are descended from Adam and Eve. This ancestorship is what Karl disputed.

He said there was no reason why all mankind could not have been descended from many different parents. Perhaps he might even harbor the thought that some of mankind descended from Adam and Eve while some are descended from apes or monkeys. I wonder what Karl thought he was descended from. Maybe he preferred to be descended from something else other than Adam and Eve. Something else like apes or monkeys? Would be good if Karl gives us some idea what he thought he was descended from.

 

[truthseeker63]

What does Islam say about people fearing death ?

What does Islam say about people fearing death how do Muslims conquer the fear of death that many humans have ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrophobia

 

[Eric H]

Re: What does Islam say about people fearing death ?

Greetings and peace be with you, we haave missed you, and I was wondering how you got on with seeing the Imam
a little while ago.

Hopefully someone else can answer your question.

Every blessing

Eric