And that's exactly what I meant when I said his complaint was poorly presented. Please, DEFINE what you mean by a free Middle East?
There's only one concept of a free middle east and it goes: a middle east where the leaders do not handshake with Bush, where they do not handshake with any israeli, where the leaders are taking care of their people, a middle east where leaders can disagree with america without being captured, tortured and killed, a middle east where "Israel" no longer exist.. And I could go on for ever but its quite simple really, you just have to put yourself in the shoes of some middle eastern family and ask yourself what do we want?
I understand the concept as it's applied to "after" the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but I'm still not 100% on the concept BEFORE all this 911 crap happened, except that the issue stems from the state that has been called Israel.
Before 9/11 Bin Laden offered america peace so many times but kept being ignored. He wanted america to stop supporting "Israel" and the arab dictators. The arab dictators are the ones who recognize "Israel" and support "Israel", these dictators are still ruling only because of america supporting them. Bin Laden is against these dictators but he cannot do anything about for as long as america is behind them. He still want's america to stop supporting these dictators and instead let the people chose their leaders regardless of wether that may be a leader who is against "Israel".
America should stop backing up these middle eastern dictators and they should stop taking care of "Israel", perhaps its that simple!
I can deal with that state, but I have no idea how Muslims define a "free Middle East" or what they expect for a satisfactory out-come because Muslims don't seem to agree on what the out-come itself should look like.
Well most of the middle easterns perhaps 90-95% all have the same concept. The rest are quite honestly betrayers who support "Israel", typically christians who have bin attacked by a bunch of muslim criminals and then blaim all muslims instead of blaiming who ever it may be that have brought all the unstability to their country, resulting in this kind of act. Other than the christians, its the rich people who seem to have another concept of a free middle east, their concept of a free middle east is an american middle east because as long as america is there they will become richer (while the other 90-95% are starving).
You just have no idea how frustrating it is, when viewing all the histories, to be looking in from the outside! Some Muslims like America and want us there, like Saudi Arabia. Others hate us there and hate our influence, even though we never hated or feared the Muslim influence. If we do something to please one Muslim country, we wind up pissing off another so we're always confused - or at least we appear to be.
The house of Saud want's you there, the people quite honestly hate america! When have you pleased any muslim in the middle east? You have pleased a bunch of betrayers who work for america but you have never pleased the other 90-95%.
For me, personally, this is a major challenge because I hear every dispute. No Muslim scholar has a problem complaining to me because I'm willing to hear them out. The problem? They'll all talk to me - but they won't talk to each other!
Why are we talking about muslim scholars? Your making this religious which it isnt, this is more political I think!
So... what if Israel disappeared? Would that please the Middle East? No. Why? Because the scholars have differences of opinion on what a free Middle East would look like - they're not all on the same page and they don't even trust each other enough to Assemble under one roof and work it all out. It's all very confused!!
You cant work it out in the middle east. 90-95% of the middle easterns all live under a dictator not much different than Saddam. They arent allowed to give their opinion and the very few who are, the government will ignore.
The Ninth Scribe[/QUOTE]
I'll respond to the Bin Laden part when ever I can, just a bit busy right now. Perhaps if all americans were like you the world would be alright.
