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Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

im just saying, if it bothers you so much then you shouldnt ask the sister with the niqaab on right :rollseyes im sure she wouldnt mind ^o)
She might feel i was avoiding her because she wore a veil, which is prejudice, and she might be offended (you never know, thats why its best to treat all the same)


if this is the case, what are we arguing about? lol
Arguing? I didn't think we were, maybe having a discussion, but arguing? I'm sorry if it felt like that.
if you're talking for dawah purposes there shouldnt be no smiling..! LOL
Wow, really? I never knew that. May i ask the reson why?
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

if you're talking for dawah purposes there shouldnt be no smiling..! LOL
:sl:
If we are just stern all the time then what use would the dawah be? People like it when they see others joke and laugh, and prehaps they would think differently towards Muslims if they found out that they were ordinary people just like them. The nicest people I know are those Muslims who always smile.
:w:
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

i was being sarcastic bro :rollseyes thatz what the LOL woz 4 lol
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

Peace to you j4763:

What you also have to consider is how uncomfortable it is for a sister to remove her veil to speak to you. You listen with your ears and speak with your mouth, you don't have to see my face to know what I've said. Trust me, if I'm angry, you'll know it by the sound of my voice, if I'm happy, you will also hear it in my voice and if we're having a discussion with normal tones, you will know that too. You know, the blind have managed to hold entire, meaningful, intelligent conversations without ever seeing a face. I'm sure a sighted person is just as capable without seeing the entire face. :)

Peace to you,
Hana
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

I don't really understand the concern with what Muslim women wear or don't wear. I was really annoyed with the gallons of hairspray used by American women in the 1980's that made their hair look like the Tower of Babel.
Ha!

How I wish Christian women wore veils then. Much to do about nothing if you ask me. From what I remember, the only time the veil was challenged in the U.S was in relation to a driver's license. On that issue I can understand why the veil might be problematic, but not because it makes some people "uncomfortable".
I wish more people shared your view. It's reasonable and respectful to the ideas of democracy. :)

j4763 said:
I’m kind of split on this, on one side its may be part of the woman’s life to cover up and if she wishes to do so then in this free country she should dress however she pleases.
But I can understand that speaking to someone in person and not being able to see there face is a bit odd, but that’s me I like to see the reaction and facial expressions (smile, frown) of the person I’m talking to.
That's also a fair, non-inflammatory comment which promotes discussion rather than argumentation.

As for Mr Straw's comments, I think they've been blown way out of proportion. Sure, I don't agree with him, but I don't think Muslims should be angry at him.
 
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Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

Oh hey!

Some people like having G*Y haircuts and acting like chavs....They're really reallly a great contribution to the community right? Countless assets to the police etc. going to waste....But OH NO!! Harmless, veiled women doing no harm, rather maybe doing some good to the community, let's pick on them cos my hand is scratching to do oppress Muslims.

Go Home and drink out of your STRAW
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

how about we remove straw's teeth instead :anger:


may Allah guide OR destroy such shameless disgusting people Ameen !
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

Assalamu Alaikum

sexual frustration of some sort?

Please we should not accord that it could be possible to be such. Rather deny any such possiblity in the open so as not to become causal to.

I think it is rather that many European Nobility types regard that it is their right to access the vanity of any person they please through looking at their hair. Many wealthy and powerful Europeans are quite accustomed to assessing any person at immediate sight by what mental imagery comes into their mind about hair. They regard that as a sign of what is real unfortunately since hair can also accord any image of known disease. So all the more reason for us to cover. Also reason to express that our own accounts are only held in knowledge among other Muslims. This is an important issue that I am particularly sensitive to as a person with family whom are not Muslim, and also in that I have obligation within Aboriginal Kinship to action of many Prayer of the Muslim among and in ancestry, but that Kinship system includes many non-Muslim Aborigines, and that accords a danger. So I am thereby often assumed wrongfully to be not meeting any obligation within Aboriginal Kinship, but only by, in entering the Ummah by preference to the Aboriginal system (since it is faulted by modern circumstance), having not so frequently been attuned with Aboriginal kinship.

I think the media blew it out of proportion if you ask me, they just want to highlight the veil rather then what Straw said. It's just another potryal by the media about how Muslims are and how they don't follow society...

The Pope's comments didn't quite get the riots going and the Muslims didn't react so maybe this story might trigger something.

Muslims needed to be far more careful about the Pope as he could readily have been baiting us into giving false proof of allegations against us; but as we do not know, we can only know never to trust the motivation of the assertions of any persons receiving benefit from the fact that many Catholic Churches still today assault congregations with presenting Father, Son and Holy Ghost as through individual men, rather than as three manifestations of matter which in Allah alone combine as one. However, even without knowing what kind of person Straw is, it seems that his comment could trigger a more useful opposition of the right wing dislike of Islam.

I reckon that particularly given that France legislated against children schooling with any expression of Religious beleif apparent, and knowing that such could (and by now has) discriminate against Muslim girls receiving adequate education; Hijab is most probably that issue around which many ideological battles are most safely able to be conducted.

I would like to make the point that in many cultures it is regarded as wrong for any eye contact between man and women whom are not family or preparing to become married. Here is another example: in New Zealand (Aoteora) Maori (a people) culture for a child to look into an adults eye that is not immediate family is the height of vulgarity. Maori school children in the past were condemed for not looking teachers in the eye but when they had been made appropirately afraid to by culture. I often feel that I would prefer to be able to keep my eyes covered to keeping all but my hair covered with veil; but of course in modest clothing also.

Perhaps if the issue of Hijab is likely to become a larger manifested argument then we should begin to be more openly analytical among persons in the west whom enquire as to why is Hijab and what is Hijab as well as what they guess of how is Hijab. In fact the "how" may then be able to be better proven when we can remove wrong perception of whys and whats. Many in the west may already be accessing the Muslim teaching of how Hijab is manifest in mind. For example the genetic of red/orange hair is already an embodiment of.

What fools they will be proven for an assault to the worth of Hijab. But in that we also will be better enabled to condition women in the west into better modesty.

Perhaps the total answer should be some sort of equation. For every one Muslim woman, whom upon one day, felt that in Allah her work that day needed not be under a veil: how many many women in the west must be enabled to consider Islam to accomodate the expense?

Assalamu Alaikum
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

That he is called Jack Straw makes for an interesting analogy to a needle in a haystack. I think that particular needle was the way that the pharmecutical industry has been accounting Islam wrong wrongfully by imagining that Governance by Shari'ah could, or even might seek to, legislated the oppression of Christian and other belief in One God. When of course such is forbidden in Shari'ah. Neither are Muslims ever likely to legislate against much of what folk in 'the west' imagine; while France effected a legislation against Hijab. wasalam
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

Salam Alaikum:

These comments just show his ignorance and if we remain calm and steadfast in our want to worship Allah, swt, by wearing the veil, the situation will disappear.

I just wonder if a female visitor dressed in a mini skirt and belly shirt is asked to cover when visiting his office. :?

wasalam,
Hana

The point made by Hana hits the nail on the head about Jack Straw of course.

But I am reflecting upon my previous post and thought to add a little futher of my perspective upon why the patterns in Muslim thought towards Hijab is a realistic vehicle of debate. The matter is emminently resolvable of course.

Many non-Muslims also prefer to be covered; and if not covering their hair/neck/face/hands are rather often inclined towards manifesting as plain an appearance as they are able. So there is a high degree of sympathy from non-Muslims even if they are not expressing such. I was once in the unfortunate position to be asked in a Christian Church why I wore my hair covered. I answered that I had learned the truth about Hijab and then could not help but to cover my self since the logic of Islam is so sound. They asked then: "so it is a Muslim thing then"; and I replied as before that the logic of Islam is irrefutable in the matter of Hijab. The then accorded to me holding me at fault for not displaying my hair to Jesus in Holy Communion, little realising that I.

Later after first attending Mosque in exasperation from being prevented from Prayer among Christians; I wrote in letter to local Muslim sisters that often for Australians an issue arises in respect of Hijab that seems unlikely given our nature and reputations. That nature being to display weakness if it is present as an askance to be held accountable. This is essential to modern Australian culture and belongs in the Aboriginal tradition. Within that tradition all persons are held accountible through posture in portion. Thereby it is that we regard a persons honesty by how openly they display their posture. This is usually not conscious in the general population; but it is that most Australians distrust a person in whom the posture of the spine can not be witnessed. So I made the point in a letter that many Australians are not unmistakenly according to our own tradition, only regarding of a Muslim woman that if we can not see the shape of her stance that we might never know if she is an accountible person. It is not necessary to want to hold her at fault for any ill in the posture only to need to see that she has no shame in presenting her posture for public evaluation. Then Muslim women can be better regarded even in the fact of not being able to be held accountible except by their Husbands. This is just an Australian example of what sort of further cultural communications need to take place; but it is one in which there is already evidence of relsolution.

Now many more Muslim women are wearing Hijab in a fashion that is hugging at the chin and neck, and it seems that Australians are better enabled to trust them in that fashion. While other Muslim women, whom are more adept with non-verbal communication, are wearing fuller Hijab that falls more direct under the chin so concealing the shape of the posture. The necessity is to find the happy solution which enables that Muslims are not being forced to reveal any matter not right; and that simultaneously enables that Muslims are regarded as honest and of social worth.

wasalam
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

Assalamu Alaikum every one

also Hijab is the clear winner for determining which battle ground will be that ensured to resolve the Gog and Magog situation

One Man, after becoming Muslim, defined it to me that Magog is down below demanding that Gog fetch pleasure all day every day: in that Magog is the physical body and Gog is the Human Spirit. So I pointed out to him that if only Gog demands pleasure from Magog more strongly then it all works out OK.

Hijab can define this process of healing

Assalamu Alaikum rvq
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

As for Mr Straw's comments, I think they've been blown way out of proportion. Sure, I don't agree with him, but I don't think Muslims should be angry at him.

In a way I agree with you, we shouldn't expect anything less....but don't forget there are a lot of scholars who are of the opinion a veil is obligatory. If you look at it from that point of view it's quite serious comments for sisters, i mean imagine If he had said men must shave their beards, or women can't wear hijaabs?
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

i think the root of the problem is that Muslim women should not be going to shake a man's hand that is not her mahram.however i kinda agree with jack straw.it's hard to speak to a woman that wears niqab.i don't have anything against niqab.because i even wear niqab.but when i go to certain places(like school and universities) i take my niqab off.also for job interviews i take it off.
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

AsalamuAlaykum,

http://www.islamicboard.com/
http://www.islamicboard.com/

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, The Most Merciful
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu
greypixel-3.gif


Why Jack Straw wants Muslim women to remove the veil

This is a very strange and funny request from an MP whose Blackburn
constituency has 25% Muslims, and whose votes helped him to get elected and
become foreign secretary. Also during his time in the cabinet he visited
many Muslim countries and had the opportunity to see first hand how Muslims
live especially our social system which is based on segregation of the sexes
with certain exceptions.

During election time Mr Straw always visited local masjids and even spoke
from the minbar urging Muslims to vote for him as opposed to voting for the
Conservatives or Liberal Democrats. Many Muslim leaders like Ibrahim Master
and Lord Patel campaigned for him vehemently. I’m absolutely certain that Mr
Straw took his shoes of when he entered the masjid and did not ask the
question “Why must I take my shoes off, because when I visit the church I
keep them on”? And this is a sign of division among communities. Maybe he
thought better to accept their backward ways, after all these idiots still
vote for me regardless of how many Muslim countries we invade and how many
Muslims we kill.

Many Muslims like the ones I have mentioned campaigned for him and spent
many hours together with him and discussed about Islam and I’m sure he asked
them many questions. Surely the question of Muslim women’s dress must have
come up especially since the case of the French hijab ban and Shabina Begum
excluded from a Luton school were prominent in the media?

The answer is very simple and even these brothers were able to explain to Mr
Straw that the reason Muslim women wear the hijab is because it’s a
commandment from Allah. Also if they choose to wear the niqab and even if
they want to cover their eyes then Islamically they can and also living in a
free democratic society one can dress as one wishes or wear as less as one
wishes.

It’s quite hysterical that Muslim women’s veil bothers him but not the way
some western women dress in summer which agitates the emotions of most men,
the homosexuals being the exception of course. Maybe it’s because he
approves and likes that style of clothing which reveals parts of the female
anatomy. I wonder what the Victorians would have thought. Maybe they would
have said “What are these prostitutes doing outside of the brothel. Nowadays
to think such thoughts classifies one as being backward or Islamic
fundamentalist woman repressor.

Its funny that for women to cover in public is considered to be backward and
ignorant, but to ask them to reveal more and more of their flesh is
considered to be modern and enlightened. An important point to consider is
that women can only reveal so much flesh before they might as well be naked;
this thought would be repulsive to Mr Straw but the question I would ask is
why? Their not wearing the veil and dividing communities but rather
liberating themselves and going back to what some would say “ nature”.

Muslims of course find western dress code disgusting, shameful and
degenerate because we compare against the Islamic dress code which
originated from Allah swt who knows better than humans, even a collection of
the most intellectual humans gathered together in Parliament or the ones
with the highest IQ’s from Mensa. No matter how clever they are with
multiples PhD’s it was Allah who created them in the first place.

We as Muslims can see that in the west rape, sexual harassment, fornication,
sexual diseases, illegitimate kids, abortion, all exist because of the
social system not being defined correctly.

A discussion needs to take place on these issues:

Is their co-relation between men and women relationships which leads to the
corruption I mentioned above? If the answer is yes then what are correct way
men and women should interact with each other and who should define this
system?

Does women’s dress contribute to rape, sexual harassment?

Does the way Muslim women dress lead to social problems?

And is the Islamic social system a way to eliminate these problems which are
on the rise in the west?

I urge Mr Straw to think about the questions I have posed and engage in a
dialogue with Muslims who do not massage his ego but rather speak the truth
regardless of the consequences from the British state fearing the wrath of
Allah more than any human being.


[email protected]

 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

AslamuAlaykum,

ok people let's make du'a for him.



May Allah (swt) guide him on the right path and open HIS EYES!!

(ok now raise your hands and lower your heads)

AMEEN!!
 
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Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

I'm not quite sure where muslims stand on this isue. - I know some think it's part of the culture and some think it's mandatory as it 'may' state in the Quran.

Somebody commented 'Why do Sikhs wear turbans then?' How many Sikhs have you seen covering their faces with the turban? I've seen none ;D

Yes Sikh men/women are tld to keep the head covered. But not all abide by the rule. Just aas some Jews do.
 
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Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

I'm not quite sure where muslims stand on this isue. - I know some think it's part of the culture and some think it's mandatory as it 'may' state in the Quran.

Somebody commented 'Why do Sikhs wear turbans then?' How many Sikhs have you seen covering their faces with the turban? I've seen none ;D

Yes Sikh men/women are tld to keep the head covered. But not all abide by the rule. Just aas some Jews do.

behind the veil is a woman.
it may be an older woman with many children and grandchildren
it may be a middle aged woman
its may be a young woman who cares about fashion and looking good just like every other young woman

as part of the sikh religion do men carry a dagger? :?

also niqab is not culture. its it part of religion. some consider it obligatory and other consider it recommended, but there is enough evidence that indicates after the verses regarding covering up was revealed the women started covering their faces
 
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Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

I'm not quite sure where muslims stand on this isue. - I know some think it's part of the culture and some think it's mandatory as it 'may' state in the Quran.

Somebody commented 'Why do Sikhs wear turbans then?' How many Sikhs have you seen covering their faces with the turban? I've seen none ;D

Yes Sikh men/women are tld to keep the head covered. But not all abide by the rule. Just aas some Jews do.

I don't see what is so funny, Sikh's wear going through the same situations with their Turbans 30 years back. Just like you might find it funny about covering faces, people back then must have found it funny covering their heads.

Muslims females should be allowed to wear veils as part of their religion just like Jews are allowed to wear the skull caps and Sikh's wear turbans and so on regardless weather it cover the head or face.
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

as part of the sikh religion do men carry a dagger? :?

Yes this is so! But not just men carry it but women too carry it. - It's not a dagger, but a ceremonial sword!
 
Re: 'Remove full veils' urges Straw

I don't see what is so funny, Sikh's wear going through the same situations with their Turbans 30 years back. Just like you might find it funny about covering faces, people back then must have found it funny covering their heads.

.

I laugh because the people who bring it up question as to why Sikhs are allowed to wear turbans. There is no comparison! I'm highlighting the fact it should not be brought up as they are worlds apart in this context! :)
 

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