"Views on Atonement for Sin."

[vpb]

I have a suggestion. When you use non-English words like "Aqeedah" and "Tawheed," could you please put a parenthetical explanation after it, so all us English-only people can have an idea of what you're talking about?

I thought "Tawheed" referred to God's Oneness. If so, that is all part of the Trinity discussion, not a separate discussion.

I have no idea what "Aqeedah" is.

sorry, i'll try to apply that next time. the bracket thingy.

Isn't that what we've been talking about all along? How is either a new topic?

the trinity and tawheed (oneness of Allah az) are totally different things. yes, we have touched some points during this thread but no enough really.

I have no certainty as to what was being talked about, All I could see was arguments and threats. anyhow all I did now was to tell you the meaning of what you asked him/her.

look at my gender bro.

 

[vpb]

If you want to learn about Islam, then the first thing to learn about is the Tawheed( oneness of Allah az). This is the core of Islam, the simple message that all messenger have been sent with.

for quick introduction of tawheed (oneness of Allah az) , please read:

(What is Tawheed?)
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-beliefs/44656-what-tawheed.html

(Importance of Tawheed)
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-beliefs/43570-importance-tawheed.html

(The Importance of 'Aqeedah[belief] for the Muslim)
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-beliefs/43364-importance-aqeedah-muslim.html

 

[Redeemed]

and there was I, believing that there would be no more preaching.
how silly of me!

Look at it as you are learning what real Christians believe and not as though you are being preached to.

 

[Redeemed]

Yep, I think we have validated that this is a topic we have no way to agree on. Let us move on to something else before the thread falls apart.

I can see no need for me to discuss or debate any concepts of the trinity any more. we have all seemed to come to the understanding that it is an area that we have no agreement on.

Hey, who started with the trinity. Woodrow, I think someone is trying to get you to play ping pong. We should hang that person by the toe nails. Who was it:? Maybe you should open that thread again.

 

[vpb]

Hey, who started with the trinity. Woodrow, I think someone is trying to get you to play ping pong. We should hang that person by the toe nails. Who was it

Maybe you should open that thread again.

Wodroow is completely right. and was it u who made the thread about Trinity? u girl

 

[Redeemed]

Wodroow is completely right. and was it u who made the thread about Trinity? u girl

prove itmg:

 

[evangel]

We believe that as long as we do not ascribe partners with Him

Many Muslim members here have done just that, they have placed their logic and intelligence as His partner. Many posts about the Christian view of Jesus (especially those concerning the Trinity) have the quotes from the Koran saying that these things didn't happen, but many also have just been "God cannot do that" or "It is impossible for Him to do that." Woodrow in another post was the first Muslim subscriber that I have read to flat out say (and I'm paraphrasing) "I can't say what Allah can or cannot do but in the Koran it says He didn't."
Now these other writers, are they unbelievers or believers who need atonement.

 

[vpb]

Many Muslim members here have done just that, they have placed their logic and intelligence as His partner. Many posts about the Christian view of Jesus (especially those concerning the Trinity) have the quotes from the Koran saying that these things didn't happen, but many also have just been "God cannot do that" or "It is impossible for Him to do that." Woodrow in another post was the first Muslim subscriber that I have read to flat out say (and I'm paraphrasing) "I can't say what Allah can or cannot do but in the Koran it says He didn't."
Now these other writers, are they unbelievers or believers who need atonement.

Please watch this video. If you don't understand his accent, than just shout, and I'll explain it to you.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Vxmso5BuY[/media]
Source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Vxmso5BuY

 

[Redeemed]

Please watch this video. If you don't understand his accent, than just shout, and I'll explain it to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Vxmso5BuY
Source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Vxmso5BuY

Yes I watched it, and he is right that it doesn't make sense that God became a man and that Jesus is a God man. I have to agree with that. I never said that it makes sense. It doesn't make sense that a tree will start from a little seed that takes in water and sunlight to become a tree that gives us food. It doesn't make sense that bumble bees fly; should I stop eating fruit, vegatables and honey?

 

[vpb]

It doesn't make sense that a tree will start from a little seed that takes in water and sunlight to become a tree that gives us food. It doesn't make sense that bumble bees fly; should I stop eating fruit, vegatables and honey?

whatt??? have u ever had biology in u'r school? ever studied a little bit of biology?? u must be joking right?

 

[vpb]

Quote:
Originally Posted by vpb
Wodroow is completely right. and was it u who made the thread about Trinity? u girl

prove it

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/42946-who-trinity-christians-muslims.html#post744327

 

[evangel]

Please watch this video. If you don't understand his accent, than just shout, and I'll explain it to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Vxmso5BuY
Source:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Vxmso5BuY

Does the Koran say God cannot become a man or did not become a man? The speaker says cannot and has placed limits on God that he doesn't know for sure are there and has made his logic a partner with God.
Again, a non-believer or one in need of atonement?
Many men in combat have sacrificed their lives for their buddies when they could have protected themselves, their logic probably demanded that they move out of harms way, or the fire fighters and police who ran into the Twin Towers as others ran out probably weren't being logical. Now if there is this willingness in men to lay down their lives so that others may live how much greater is it in the Creator so that the creation (His sons and daughters) may live. That is the atonement of my sin, due to the Father's love.

 

[vpb]

Does the Koran say God cannot become a man or did not become a man? The speaker says cannot and has placed limits on God that he doesn't know for sure are there and has made his logic a partner with God.

Did you hear him what he say? He is not placing limits on God, if you check the video again and pay attention, u see that he was backing up with verses, which shows that God doesn't do things which are ungodly. So a God becoming a human is not godly. It's common sense.

Many men in combat have sacrificed their lives for their buddies when they could have protected themselves, their logic probably demanded that they move out of harms way, or the fire fighters and police who ran into the Twin Towers as others ran out probably weren't being logical. Now if there is this willingness in men to lay down their lives so that others may live how much greater is it in the Creator so that the creation (His sons and daughters) may live. That is the atonement of my sin, due to the Father's love.

Are u comparing humans with God??? We get tired and spend energy to help someone, but Allah does not !!!. Allah swt never gets tired, or Allah never sleeps....etc. Allah tells us in the Qur;an than when He wants to do something he just says "Be", and it becomes. Don't put my God in the level with humans.

 

[vpb]

 Does the Koran say God cannot become a man or did not become a man?

Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah

112:1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
112:2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
112:3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
112:4. And there is none like unto Him.

[وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَّهُ كُفُواً أَحَدٌ ]112:4
Tafsir Ibn Kathir commenting on the verse.


(And there is none comparable to Him.) This means that there is none similar to Him, none equal to Him and there is nothing at all like Him.'' Ibn Abi Hatim also recorded it and At-Tirmidhi mentioned it as a Mursal narration. Then At-Tirmidhi said, "And this is the most correct.''

this one should be sufficient, but if u want I can bring more.

 

[evangel]

Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah

112:1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
112:2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
112:3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
112:4. And there is none like unto Him.

[وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَّهُ كُفُواً أَحَدٌ ]112:4
Tafsir Ibn Kathir commenting on the verse.


(And there is none comparable to Him.) This means that there is none similar to Him, none equal to Him and there is nothing at all like Him.'' Ibn Abi Hatim also recorded it and At-Tirmidhi mentioned it as a Mursal narration. Then At-Tirmidhi said, "And this is the most correct.''

this one should be sufficient, but if u want I can bring more.

Um, none of those say He cannot come in the flesh.

 

[evangel]

Did you hear him what he say? He is not placing limits on God, if you check the video again and pay attention, u see that he was backing up with verses, which shows that God doesn't do things which are ungodly. So a God becoming a human is not godly. It's common sense.

Which verse in the Koran says God cannot enter this world in the flesh?
Are you are quoting to me your logic, placing limits on God?
Do you know the mind of God and have Him figured out?

Are u comparing humans with God???

Sure am. Jesus said, "Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect." I compare myself to that standard every day and realize how woefully short I fall.

We get tired and spend energy to help someone, but Allah does not !!!. Allah swt never gets tired, or Allah never sleeps....etc. Allah tells us in the Qur;an than when He wants to do something he just says "Be", and it becomes. Don't put my God in the level with humans.

If I believed that God was on the same level as humans I would start worshiping the fire thingy.


Also about the video, I don't believe that God came into the world as a man to figure out how we feel, but after slumming it for 33 years He sure took away our ability to whine, "Your God. You don't know what it's like for me."

 

[vpb]

Um, none of those say He cannot come in the flesh.

Read it again.

 

[vpb]

Which verse in the Koran says God cannot enter this world in the flesh?

check the comment of the verse I posted.

Are you are quoting to me your logic, placing limits on God?

You were already shown in the video verses from the Qur'an which shows that :
1. God does not do things which are not godly.
2. You cannot be mortal and importal at the same time, or have a beggining and end at the same time
3.I showed you the comment of the verse, which u need to read it carefully what it says.
4.just for example, Humans go to bathroom to ..... ? how can God do that??? (astagfirullah).

Do you know the mind of God and have Him figured out?

No. We don't speak what we like, we speak only what Allah taught us.

 

[evangel]

Read it again.

I did and they still don't. Now you may be getting a personal revelation which would make you the last prophet.

I am a balance, on one side the good the other the bad. No matter how much good I put on the one side I still have the bad. God is just and the bad has to be paid for, has to be taken away before I can come before Him. Jesus paid the price, that is atonement.

 

[vpb]

I did and they still don't. Now you may be getting a personal revelation which would make you the last prophet.

Astagfirullah. I don't get suprised of u speaking such words. Muhammed saws is the seal of the Prophets, the last Prophet.

(And there is none comparable to Him.) This means that there is none similar to Him, none equal to Him and there is nothing at all like Him.''

ok, let's see, if Allah becomes in flesh??? he will look like us? right? but the verse is showing us that God is like no one, so he can't become in flesh, cuz then he will look like us. and the appearance of Allah is out of our imagination as the verse is commenting.

If Allah becomes in flesh, he will need to eat, drink, sleep,..... , but Allah doesn't require to eat drink or sleep as stated from verses Dr. Zakir Naik showed.

If Allah become in flesh, then who will be above the Arsh?? Allah says in the Qur'an that He is above the Arsh (Throne).

These should be sufficient.

I am a balance, on one side the good the other the bad. No matter how much good I put on the one side I still have the bad. God is just and the bad has to be paid for, has to be taken away before I can come before Him. Jesus paid the price, that is atonement.

I feel sorry to see you, hoping on a imaginary gift which doesn't exist, but it looks like the example given in Qur'an,

24:39. But the Unbelievers,- their deeds are like a mirage in sandy deserts, which the man parched with thirst mistakes for water; until when he comes up to it, he finds it to be nothing: But he finds Allah (ever) with him, and Allah will pay him his account: and Allah is swift in taking account.