war against islam or war on terrorism?

[arabiyyah]

I am sure you can find a thread on this forum

how? there are a lot of threads, ;D ;D kay:

 

[Keltoi]

It's ok, I've only started 5 boycotts against weatabix. We'll get them one day.


Believe me, it's always worse when you're the same religion as the culprit.

Reeling it back on topic: I believe some people percieve it is a war on Islam, infact this is an idea shared commonly with non-muslims (I've seen enough comments on just this one day to validate that claim, a simple yahoo message board such on "veils" will reveal a whole lot of ignorance).

Also, at times it seems as certain people are using terrorism to justify slaughtering muslims and defacing Islam, though this is often referred to as liberating or collateral damage. This is more hurtful than any physical damage as it puts muslims into a corner, in which they are allowed only to 'take it' - if a comment is so much as thought of, that muslim is pounced on and Islam takes another blow from the ignorants of society.

I'm beginning to think, increasingly, that the mere threat of Islam, or rather perceived threat, is driving manking against its very nature.

The question isn't whether some people living in the West are "ignorant" or "paranoid" about the threat Islam faces, but whether there is some mass effort to war against the religion of Islam. I just don't see how you can factually back up that assertion. Yes, many in the West are not friends of Islam and never will be, just as many living in Muslim countries are not friends of the West and never will be. That doesn't equate to a wholesale war on Islam. The Crusades weren't even "wars on Islam". That is the closest thing to a War on Islam that has ever occurred, and religion plays no part in this from the Western side, only from the side of the enemy, who happen to put Islam right in the middle.

 

[Woodrow]

Then why do scholars such as bilal Phillips and others discourage us from living in a non muslim country or society?

discourage is a long way from compel. It is also sort of odd that He chooses to live in the Phillipines a Christian Country and left Saudi Arabia after only 3 years. If he truly means Muslims can not live in a Non-Muslim country. Also the Phillipines is a US territory and at any time the people can vote for full US statehood

It would be great if we all could live in an Islamic country. And it is correct we should avoid the influences of Non-Islamic society.

However, the simple facts are, there is insufficient space in all of the Islamic countries combined to hold 1.8 billion people. Next if all Muslims lived in a Muslim Country. The word of Allah(swt) would never be heard by most of the world.

 

[Islamicboy]

I believe i did mention in one of my post that if you are giving dawah its ok. But if i didnt then i apologize..

Emigration To a Non-Muslim Country

By Mufti Taqi Usmani


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Q.) What is the ruling regarding adoption of the nationality of a non-Muslim country? Many people who adopt the nationalities of these countries, or wish to do so insist that they do so only because they are persecuted in their own countries, through imprisonment, threats and intimidation or confiscation of their property etc. Others see no difference between their own countries, which though Muslim, have no Shariah, and those of the West. They contend that whilst both are equal in having no Islamic laws, their personal rights, property and honor are safer in their adopted country, and they will not be imprisoned or persecuted without reason.

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A.) The issue of emigration to a non-Muslim country and permanent settlement there, is one on which the ruling would differ according to the situation, and the reasons for the emigration.

1. If a Muslim is forced by his circumstances to emigrate, e.g. he is persecuted in his country or imprisoned, or his property is confiscated etc., without his having committed any crime, and he sees no way out for himself other than to emigrate to a foreign country, then he would be permitted to do so in such a case without any karahat (abhorrence) whatsoever as long as he resolves to protect his faith, and keep himself away from the widespread evil found there.

2. Similarly, if a Muslim is forced to emigrate due to his financial situation, i.e. he cannot find the necessary means of subsistence despite extensive effort and he sees no alternative other than emigration to a non-Muslim country, then he is permitted to emigrate subject to the above conditions. Earning a livelihood through permissible means is also a duty for a Muslim, after his other fard duties, and the Shariah has not specified a certain place for it. Allah Ta'ala says:

"He is the one who has made the earth manageable for you. So traverse you through its tracts, and enjoy of the sustenance that He furnishes; and unto Him is the resurrection. [Al-Mulk 67:15]

3. If a Muslim adopts the nationality of an non-Muslim country for the purpose of calling its people towards Islam, or to convey Islamic laws to the Muslims residing there, and to encourage them to stay firm on their faith, then this is not only permissible, but also a source of reward. Many of the Sahabah and Tabi'een settled in distant Kuffar lands for this very purpose, and this action of theirs is counted amongst their virtues and points of merit.

4. If a person has enough means of livelihood available to him in his native
country for him to be able to live according to the (average) standard of his people, but he emigrates in order to raise his standard of living and live a life of luxury and comfort, then emigration for such a purpose has at least some degree of karahat in it, because such a person is throwing himself into a storm of evil, and endangering his faith and moral character without there being any necessity for it. Experience shows that the people who settle in non-Muslim countries for luxury and comfort find their religious restraint diminishing in the face of many temptations of evil.

5. Finally, if a person adopts a non-Muslim nationality solely for the purpose of increasing his standing in society, and as a matter of pride, or in preference to a Muslim nationality, or in imitation of the Kuffar then all such actions are Haram without exception. There is no need to cite evidence for this.

 

[Islamicboy]

However, the simple facts are, there is insufficient space in all of the Islamic countries combined to hold 1.8 billion people. Next if all Muslims lived in a Muslim Country. The word of Allah(swt) would never be heard by most of the world.

I really doubt that all the muslim countries around the world cannot hold 1.8 billion. Countries do much better with more population look at china, India, and America.

 

[aamirsaab]

The question isn't whether some people living in the West are "ignorant" or "paranoid" about the threat Islam faces, but whether there is some mass effort to war against the religion of Islam.

I meant that there are people who do want to wage a war against Islam due to their paranoia and ignorance. Sorry If i didn't make that clear enough in the original post.

I just don't see how you can factually back up that assertion.

Surely you have noticed the cyber-jihadies and neo-crusaders who frequent this forum every now and again. At least 2 of the latter group did so in this past week, although, their posts were deleted minutes after posting.

Yes, many in the West are not friends of Islam and never will be, just as many living in Muslim countries are not friends of the West and never will be. That doesn't equate to a wholesale war on Islam.

I understand that fully, what I meant was, there are those who don't understand and take it that there is actually this huge war going on. Both muslims and non.

I really doubt that all the muslim countries around the world cannot hold 1.8 billion. Countries do much better with more population look at china, India, and America.

The examples you gave are all non-muslim countries. The muslim countries that could do it are possibly Iraq (if you can get by the US forces fighting with insurgents), Iran (if ahmadenajad hasn't rallied his military and blocked the roads for defensive military purposes), Palestine (if you can get past the gaza strip...alive), Pakistan (if you can pay off the cops quick enough), and possibly Turkey (if they don't ban muslims and Islam all together). So I think I'll take my chances in the UK, the only "fear" here is that I might get shot running away from the cops.

 

[Woodrow]

I really doubt that all the muslim countries around the world cannot hold 1.8 billion. Countries do much better with more population look at china.

China that now because of food and land shortages makes it a crime for a woman to have more than 2 children. Has mandatory abortions and sterilizations.

 

[Islamicboy]

China was a bad example look at india and america. Also as for the food shortage look at countries with small population there too is poverty. Poverty is every where ofcourse the more people there will be more on streets. Also lets not forget we are talking about every single muslim country holding 1.8 billion not just one land..

 

[Islamicboy]

The examples you gave are all non-muslim countries. The muslim countries that could do it are possibly Iraq (if you can get by the US forces fighting with insurgents), Iran (if ahmadenajad hasn't rallied his military and blocked the roads for defensive military purposes), Palestine (if you can get past the gaza strip...alive), Pakistan (if you can pay off the cops quick enough), and possibly Turkey (if they don't ban muslims and Islam all together). So I think I'll take my chances in the UK, the only "fear" here is that I might get shot running away from the cops.

Those arent the only muslim countries. Afaganistan Inshallah Taliban will soon win they already have the enemies on the run. Albania, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Libya, Malaysia, Maldive Islands, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Sudan the list goes on can you explain problem in each country.

 

[Keltoi]

Those arent the only muslim countries. Afaganistan Inshallah Taliban will soon win they already have the enemies on the run. Albania, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Libya, Malaysia, Maldive Islands, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Sudan the list goes on can you explain problem in each country.

The Taliban has the "enemy" on the run? Is the enemy running to Pakistan?

 

[aamirsaab]

Those arent the only muslim countries. Afaganistan Inshallah Taliban will soon win they already have the enemies on the run. Albania, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Libya, Malaysia, Maldive Islands, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Sudan the list goes on can you explain problem in each country.

Most of them fall into several categories:
* the ruling party (government) is usually bad (corrupt)
* the economy sucks big time and is reflected in the living conditions and employment options
* there isn't enough space for 1.8 b to spread amongst those countries listed.
* there is war still waging on in several of them

Not all of those listed does have a problem with it as such, but you have to remember that it is people's choice as to where they live. And some do not even have that choice as they are born in a non-muslim country.

Just out of interest, where exactly do you live islamicboy? And do you live there because it is a muslim or non-muslim country or are there other factors too?

 

[Islamicboy]

The Taliban has the "enemy" on the run? Is the enemy running to Pakistan?

ofcourse britian and amrica do have their bases in pakistan.

 

[KAding]

However, the simple facts are, there is insufficient space in all of the Islamic countries combined to hold 1.8 billion people. Next if all Muslims lived in a Muslim Country. The word of Allah(swt) would never be heard by most of the world.

Well, Europe already has many of the most closely populated countries in the world. So really not that much space left, especially if we desire at least a couple of forests and non-farming animals.

 

[Keltoi]

ofcourse britian and amrica do have their bases in pakistan.

The U.K and the U.S. have bases in Pakistan? I'm sure that will come as a surprise to both parties and Pakistan itself.

 

[Woodrow]

Pakistan is one of the few countries in the mid-east region the US does not have any bases in, nor large American settlements. Most if not all of the oil producing countries have US military bases and Civilian settlements of American oil field workers.

In another thread I posted a list of the Current US bases in the mid-east. The number of countries that have US military bases surprised me.

Just Air Force bases alone are found in nearly every Arabic speaking Country. Kuwait, Qatar and Bharain are even providing considerable funds for expansions to keep the American presence in their countries.

The Pentagon is paying for most of the improvements to runways, control towers, airport ramps and lighting systems, but wealthy Persian Gulf states like Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain are picking up the tab for hundreds of millions of dollars to upgrade facilities for their American tenants. At this sprawling air base, for instance, the Qatari government is spending nearly $400 million to build a state-of-the-art regional air operations center. The 100,000-square-foot, fortified headquarters is expected to be operating by July 2008.

Source:http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/intervention/2005/0918basearrangements.htm

 

[Keltoi]

There are many advantages to having U.S. bases in your country. Primarily the economic stimulus, but also the added level of protection that exists, in other words, it makes the job of the country's national security officer much easier.

 

[Mateen]

Salam,

Looks to much heat here ha.

We Muslims are so much disintegreted with no single opinion on anything.
Just mention any sharia to a scholar you will find a line of scholars who are ready to intrepret it differently.
It was different when our Prophet Muhammad{saas} was living among us, he was one in all, our religious, political and military leader.
But as we know within few years of his depart, our Kalipths got shaheed and we know what happened at Karbala{ The enemy was so called Muslim who martyred our hero Hussain{as}.

313 muslims were enough to keep Islam alive. Here's why. They believed in thier religion, Allah and kept working according to Quran, and that is why Islam spread.

BuT TODAY WE are so weak that we require Non-muslim { American} bases to protect us from our fellow Muslim countries. Our prophet and our Calipths who worked so hard to establish Islam are surely ahsmed of us seeking ohters help to protect ourselves. { It makes me cry in shame}

What a shame to seek for someone else's protection besides Allah!!!

What a shame to have oil but have to ask others to give us knowldege and instruments so that we can tap our reserviours.

Prophet Muhammad { saas} said that if he were to live to see 2 muslims hating eachother then he would kill them.

I guess he would have killed us all.
Iraq hates Iran. Iraq hates Kuwait{ Kuwait helps US destroy Iraq. Saudi needs US bases to protect themselves from neoghbours.

All in the middle of this chaos we Muslims want Islam to rule the world.
This is over the fact that we have rejected the quran by dividing ourselves in sects, sunnis hate shia's, brothers against eachother.

When we ourselves do not follow the quran then how on earth will we show the world that if ruled by Quran, we can get better worlds, filled with peace and secure hereafter.??

Befofe blaming others { US , UK AND REST OF WORLD} lets analyze,

1. Do we pray 5 times a day with understanding Quran?
2. Whenever we see any mischief do we activley intervene ?
3. Have we cleared the mis-conception about Jihad?
4. Have we explained to our brothers who have mis-intrepreted Jihad and told them and the world we are against them?
5. Have we given the true message of Muhammad{saas}?
5. We have muslim countries, but do we have islamic ruling?

No we may not have any, but sure we want Quran to rule the world!! Sure we want to be respected. Sure we want to be helped. Isn't it strange?

Yes, there are people who hate Islam just for the name of it, but these people will die in their anguish if we follow Islam completely.

Allah chose people of Moses and gave them the commandments. But when they went away from those revelations Allah punished them for years.

Allah gave us the Quran, we are straying away from it and no wonder we are humiliated everywhere.

Let us remember, God helps those who helps themselves.
We should go to all Muslim leaders and refresh their memory that they are chosen to rule by Quran. If they do not agree its time to change them , from Saudi to India, small or large.

Wassala.

 

[Woodrow]

It brings me much sadness to read your post and then realise:











I can not find anything in it I can honestly disagree with.

 

[Islamicboy]

The U.K and the U.S. have bases in Pakistan? I'm sure that will come as a surprise to both parties and Pakistan itself.

Thats interesting pakistan is the bigges ally of america on war agiast islam. why the hell would usa use saudi bases to attack afganistan. Ofcourse they used pakistani bases.

 

[Islamicboy]

Mateen i agree with you 100%. But if this thread is being refered to then i am sure all muslims agree this is new war agisnt islam. The tactics have changed/. As far as muslims livng in nonmuslim countries. non of us here are scholars but i did quote one mufti and Bilal Phillips video you can watch on this topic. Those were not my own fatwa or anything i am not a scholar neither is anyone else on thisforum.