war against islam or war on terrorism?

[Dawud_uk]

Assalaamu Alaykum brothers and sisters,

to the non-muslims, peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

Do the members of this forum believe that the West is waging a war against islam or against terrorism?

Bush's recent comments that they are waging a war against people who wish to establish an evil empire from spain to indonesia clearly shows that he is against the implimentation of islam as a complete state system.

he is saying his war is against those who want the kalafate, as such a thing is part of islam then his war is against islam not with any part of it but with islam as a whole.

i have been reading articles from some neo-con think tanks and this is their exact aim, to destroy those who want to re-establish the kalafate so are these people by their words and now not just their actions at war with islam if they were ever anything else before?

what do members think?

Assalaamu Alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Asyur an-Nagi]

yes. especially in Indonesia. you can feel how US have driven the govt's thinking to seek and destroy the people that listed by US as terrorists.

 

[KAding]

It is fighting some interpretations of Islam, yes. What they call the 'extremists' or 'fundamentalists', the revolutionaries if you will. I don't think the US is fighting 'Islam' in general though. The US is actually cooperating with a lot of Muslims in their fight against these people. Lets not forget that most Muslim nations are just as tough on these revolutionaries. And lets not forget that in both the Iraq and Afghanistan invasion the US relied very heavily on local Muslims. Such as the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan and the Sunni Kurds and Shii'tes in Iraq. For you, these collaborating Muslims might be Munafiq. But for non-Muslims these people are just as Muslim as the extremist.

 

[KAding]

I don't think the caliphate as such is a problem for the US. Just like the African Union or the European Union are not considered a threat. But it is certainly the aim of the US to prevent a caliphate from forming based on the political ideology as it is expressed by more fundamentalist Muslims. This ideology runs completely counter to what Americans believe in.

An added factor is that an armed struggle is supposed to create this caliphate, rather than a slow process of political unification. Like I said, they are revolutionaries. And revolutionaries bring instability, which is not what the US wants.

 

[Dawud_uk]

i would ask the non-muslims who have just answered my questions whether they feel this idiology of islam as a political as well as a spiritual philosophy is more in tune with what you know of what Muhammad saws brought us or less so?

you see our thoughts are not relevent when placed against a contradictory understanding to our's from the prophet Muhammad saws so if this idea of a whole islamic state covering all the muslim lands is something from Muhammad saws then we will fight for it even if you hate it.

Abu Abdullah

 

[KAding]

i would ask the non-muslims who have just answered my questions whether they feel this idiology of islam as a political as well as a spiritual philosophy is more in tune with what you know of what Muhammad saws brought us or less so?

Actually, to be quite honest. I think the 'fundamentalists' and 'extremists' are actually 'right'. I think they are following the 'true Islam'. Mind you, not all the time. Some of the most brutal stuff done surely can't be 'Islamic'. But nevertheless, I think they are trying hardest to follow your prophet. Mind you that most people around me believe no such thing. They think such an idea - that the Muhajedeen in Iraq of Afghanistan represent 'true' Islam - is in itself extremist. And I have to admit that most Islamophobes in the West follow the same line. But I don't think Bush (let alone Blair) perceives it as such, to them King Abdullah of Jordan is just as much a 'real' Muslim for example. Like I said, I am not convinced this is true. I believe Bin Laden is more 'Islamic' than these 'modern' Muslims. Keep in mind though, for me more 'Islamic' does not mean 'better'. I don't think attempting to install an political system from the 7th century is a particularly good idea.

So, in essence IMHO, the extremists on both sides think this is a battle between the core beliefs of two very different ideologies. That it is a battle between 'Islam' and 'Liberalism/Christianity/Secularism', that the one side is out to destroy and oppress the other. While the moderates on both sides think it is a battle between extremists .

you see our thoughts are not relevent when placed against a contradictory understanding to our's from the prophet Muhammad saws so if this idea of a whole islamic state covering all the muslim lands is something from Muhammad saws then we will fight for it even if you hate it.

Abu Abdullah

I agree. The real question is to what extend your fellow Muslims are willing to really fight over this though. If they are willing, I think we're going to have a tough century ahead of us, with much conflict. I'm not so sure though, because I believe most Muslims want stability for their family first. They want to have food on the table and a good job. We'll see though.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i honestly dont think any non-muslim will see that its a war on islam, people such as abu talib the prophets uncle are rare, [removed]

:salamext:

 

[Mr. Baldy]

i dont have time to rad all the repsonses, so sorry if this has already been said.

Tony blair called islam 'an evil ideology', george bush called practicing muslims 'islamofacists'... and both have admitted that this is clearly a war on islamic ideaology. really, how can there be any doubt that this is a war on islam.

 

[Dawud_uk]

my own mind is made up, i just think whilst we have so many non-muslims here we have a duty to convince them also about this.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Bittersteel]

yep I too am convinced.something like a cold war against Islam,which actually many Non-Muslims admit and approve of.you know,inserting the seed of democracy in the Muslim world.

 

[KAding]

i dont have time to rad all the repsonses, so sorry if this has already been said.

Tony blair called islam 'an evil ideology', george bush called practicing muslims 'islamofacists'... and both have admitted that this is clearly a war on islamic ideaology. really, how can there be any doubt that this is a war on islam.

Ehm. They have done no such thing. Can you post some links?

 

[Dawud_uk]

yep I too am convinced.something like a cold war against Islam,which actually many Non-Muslims admit and approve of.you know,inserting the seed of democracy in the Muslim world.

assalaamu alaykum,

your point about the cold war is indeed correct, after the fall of communism they feel they need a new enemy so decided on islam and to try to combat the muslims who aim to lift up their brothers and sisters and who condemn the blind following of the western secularists in every matter.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Joe98]

......you know,inserting the seed of democracy in the Muslim world.

Yes, this is the goal of George Bush!

But why do you imply this is a bad thing?

 

[- Qatada -]

Islaam is the only ideology which is opposing the western (masonic theme.) Due to this, they wna get rid of it, and promote democracy back in the muslim lands.

If they can promote democracy, the people will start rejecting the muslim forms of law (the Qur'an and Authentic sunnah.) This is why they are trying to promote democracy because if they can do it at a government level, then the whole nation will be affected - so it will be a chain reaction and the countries nearby will fall into the same trap. Like the domino-effect.


When the muslims don't have the Qur'an and Sunnah to stick to, then they won't have any strength, and they will go along with the public and fear disobeying the creation instead of the Creator, Allaah - the Lord of the worlds. This is a big trial from Allaah, and the one's who have stuck to this are the one's being locked up (i.e. brother Awlaki, and other respected muslims.)

We know that there are hadith on they will be a time when holding onto islaam will be like holding onto hot coal. Allaah Almighty know's best, but it seems like this is leading upto these events.


Allaah Almighty know's best.

 

[Joe98]

If they can promote democracy, the people will start rejecting the muslim forms of law (the Qur'an and Authentic sunnah.)

And from this we learn that Muslims who move to the West to live, want to destroy democracy.

And of course integrate and be accepted as citizens along the way.

 

[- Qatada -]

And from this we learn that Muslims who move to the West to live, want to destroy democracy.

And of course integrate and be accepted as citizens along the way.

Who said they want to destroy it? Their living here, but i don't see anyone destroying it.


I know lot's of muslims who actually follow islaam and help society compared to the thugs in the street who also live in the same place, but they cause more chaos and disruption.



Peace.

 

[Woodrow]

Mutual fear and distrust is a horrible thing. It becomes very cycler and before long self fulfilling prophecies set in. Muslims see their fears of the West become realities and the Western world see's fears of Islam become realities.

The sad part is it is all unneccessary. The enemies are not each other the enemies are fear, distrust and misunderstanding.

All of us need to learn to act as we would want the other person to act.

 

[Dawud_uk]

And from this we learn that Muslims who move to the West to live, want to destroy democracy.

And of course integrate and be accepted as citizens along the way.

i didnt move her, i was born here and here i will remain trying to help my fellow man to lift themselves out of the ignorance and filth that is calling itself civilisation in the west.

Abu Abdullah

 

[Bittersteel]

But why do you imply this is a bad thing?

coz they will be helping puppet secular states.they already have these puppets so they aren't bothered about democratizing the whole of ME.

I mean Kading ,you and all the Non-Muslims here,will you like Islamists being elected by Muslim populations in Muslim countries?I don't think so.

 

[Woodrow]

And from this we learn that Muslims who move to the West to live, want to destroy democracy.

And of course integrate and be accepted as citizens along the way.

There are several thousand Muslims that have immigrated to Austin within the past 10 years. My best guess would be at least 6,000 based on the size of the crowds at the 5 Mosques here.


They have shown themselves to be admirable citisens. There have been no anti-American protests. There have been no acts of violence towards non-Muslims.

They are well integrated into Austin life.



They are mostly very highly educated people employed in various professions mostly in the Education and medical fields. Many of those that are not in a professional field are self employed business owners.

I do not believe your statement applies as a generality.