What do non-Muslims want from Muslims?

[IAmZamzam]

No, Argamemnon is in error. Read the Koran more carefully: it's talking about very specific groups of people.

 

[Grace Seeker]

No, Argamemnon is in error. Read the Koran more carefully: it's talking about very specific groups of people.

Well, that probably is true. There are some groups of people who would like to see everyone abandon all religions. And even more than that who would like to see Muslims abandon their religion. Indeed, while I would rather have a person be a devout Muslim than a nominal Chirstian, I also would rather see a person a devout Christian above all else. I think that you would similarly like to see all the world become devout Muslims, would you not? Nothing particularly revelatory about that.

 

[Thucydides1987]

Non-Muslims want us to abandon our religion and become like them; that's what the Quran says.

Okay, you need to stop looking at what the Quran says, and look at the world and the people around you to understand what they want.

Westerners don't want you to abandon your religion; maybe the crazy fundamentalist evangalical Christians do, or the hardcore anti-theists. Most westerners want Muslims, or any other peoples of any non-Western background who live in the West, to respect their cultural and political institutions, and to participate in them along with everyone else! Do you know how much we hate non-Westerners spitefully making stereotypes and generalizations about the "corrupt" and "immoral" culture of the West?

I sympathize with ordinary Muslims who are being discriminated and treated presumptuously like terrorists, but at the same time I cannot ignore the way other Muslims think of Westerners as morally inferior and deserve to be treated with contempt, just because they behave contrary to the Quran.

 

[Pygoscelis]

^ Well put. And welcome to the forums.

 

[IAmZamzam]

I think we could all use one of these.

 

[Thucydides1987]

^ Well put. And welcome to the forums.

Thanks, man.

I think we could all use one of these.

Lol, I think we may, yes

 

[Grace Seeker]

I think we could all use one of these.

Now, there's someone who knows what non-Muslims want. Enjoying my lollipop as I type. Thanks!

 

[Ramadhan]

This non-Muslim would like Muslims to speak closer to the truth when it comes to the blame they cast on the US. Most of the deaths in Iraq where NOT the result of the US military, but of Sunni on Shia and Shia on Sunni violence.

Most of the deaths in Iraq may not be *directly* caused by the US military, although we may never know for sure.
But who is directly responsible for causing the current mess that is Iraq? US government is it not?

So you think Iraq mess is caused by Sunni-Shia violence, eh?
Next, maybe you'll be saying Afghanistan mess was caused by the talibans.
Or Palestinian occupation was caused by Hamas.

As I have said in my previous post, you only have to scrutinize world history to see who has been the repeating transgessors, but deceivingly claim the opposite.
I did not have to wait long before GS come up and blamed the iraqis as the bad guys.

 

[ICYUNVMe]

Most of the deaths in Iraq may not be *directly* caused by the US military, although we may never know for sure.
But who is directly responsible for causing the current mess that is Iraq? US government is it not?

So you think Iraq mess is caused by Sunni-Shia violence, eh?
Next, maybe you'll be saying Afghanistan mess was caused by the talibans.
Or Palestinian occupation was caused by Hamas.

As I have said in my previous post, you only have to scrutinize world history to see who has been the repeating transgessors, but deceivingly claim the opposite.
I did not have to wait long before GS come up and blamed the iraqis as the bad guys.

The United States involves themselves in these regions to protect our own country from continued attacks. Trust me when I tell you that NO American wants to be in the middle east unnecessarily. If Muslims stood up and defended rationality and reason, and therefore fought against those Muslim fundamentalists who do harm to people around the world as well as the reputation of Muslims around the world, then the US would have no need to interfere. Just based on outward appearances however, that lack of action on the part of the Muslim community has been perceived as an alliance with those fundamentalists.

When that crazy guy was planning on holding his Burn a Qu'ran day, EVERYONE in the US stood up and told him to knock it off, because we all knew it was wrong, and we don't want to be associated with people who are willingly doing harm to America's reputation.

What do I want from Muslims?

Accountability.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Hold the United States government and military accountable for its own horrible actions, then.

Every country is corrupt (i.e. its leaders are). Hello?

 

[aadil77]

The United States involves themselves in these regions to protect our own country from continued attacks.

Sorry, what 'continued attacks' or any were you getting from iraq or afghanistan?

If Muslims stood up and defended rationality and reason

'rationality' is you don't go and kill millions just to save a few who were never at risk in the first place

 

[Lynx]

The United States involves themselves in these regions to protect our own country from continued attacks. Trust me when I tell you that NO American wants to be in the middle east unnecessarily. If Muslims stood up and defended rationality and reason, and therefore fought against those Muslim fundamentalists who do harm to people around the world as well as the reputation of Muslims around the world, then the US would have no need to interfere. Just based on outward appearances however, that lack of action on the part of the Muslim community has been perceived as an alliance with those fundamentalists.

I don't think you've got your history right. There are attacks against Americans primarily because of the continuous meddling of the United States in places where it does not belong. For example, consider USA's role in the Iraq-Iran conflict or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; do you think if USA did not so earnestly support Israel in everything it does that there would be as much animosity towards the US? Or do you think if USA did not fund Saddam's killing of thousands of Iranians that maybe Iran wouldn't call USA the 'great satan'.

When that crazy guy was planning on holding his Burn a Qu'ran day, EVERYONE in the US stood up and told him to knock it off, because we all knew it was wrong, and we don't want to be associated with people who are willingly doing harm to America's reputation.

I am pretty sure most Muslims here would stand up against public Bible burning...nevertheless, America is a funny place; you have open minded individuals who genuinely believe in essential freedoms like freedom of religion and expression etc and separation of church and state, while at the same time you have close minded backwards fundamentalist types that advocate Israel's oppression of the Palestinians on the basis that the Bible promised the Jews the land of Israel. Unfortunately the latter types of people have too much influence in American politics.

What do I want from Muslims?

Accountability.

Yeah, some Muslims, if not a lot of them, have a bad habit of supporting their brothers and sisters despite the insane and ridiculous things committed by them in their own countries.

 

[ICYUNVMe]

I don't think you've got your history right. There are attacks against Americans primarily because of the continuous meddling of the United States in places where it does not belong. For example, consider USA's role in the Iraq-Iran conflict or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; do you think if USA did not so earnestly support Israel in everything it does that there would be as much animosity towards the US? Or do you think if USA did not fund Saddam's killing of thousands of Iranians that maybe Iran wouldn't call USA the 'great satan'.

You're correct here, to a degree. The Iran-Iraq conflict, from America's point of view, was a proxy war with the Soviet Union. Each side was supplying weapons to people we didn't even consider friends in order to prevent the spread of ideologies we didn't agree with. "Containment", is what we called it. It was a stupid idea, I agree with you there. Regarding Israel, the US will always be an ally of Israel. However, I do agree that not everything the Israelis do is justified or intelligent. However, that issue is very complicated and would totally derail this thread. In short, both sides have made many, many mistakes.

Iranian leadership considers the US to be the Great Satan for many reasons. Its simply untrue that all of that has to do with the Iran-Iraq conflict. Ahmadinejad doesn't like the fact that they allied with Israel. He's not a fan of democracy, obviously. He is basically the public face of all Muslims who consider the West to be immoral and corrupt; a vile entity that needs to be wiped clean. There's no room for negotiations with a guy like that, and that's a shame. Iran used to be a wonderful country, and Tehran used to be an amazing city.

I am pretty sure most Muslims here would stand up against public Bible burning...nevertheless, America is a funny place; you have open minded individuals who genuinely believe in essential freedoms like freedom of religion and expression etc and separation of church and state, while at the same time you have close minded backwards fundamentalist types that advocate Israel's oppression of the Palestinians on the basis that the Bible promised the Jews the land of Israel. Unfortunately the latter types of people have too much influence in American politics.

Crazy people are always the loudest. Its a shame. However, most Americans are in favor of a two-state solution, which is what it should have been from the very beginning. Anyone who chooses to use the Bible or the Qur'an as a means of determining political boundaries or anything of that nature is going to make progress very difficult.

 

[Mike3449]

They might be many whose support USA acts in Iraq and Afghanistan and are non-muslims. I see kind of acts as crusades of our time, not just 500+ years before.

Yes yes for example I support Talibans and Hamas too, but I don´t see they have anything to do with any 9/11 or 7/7 happenings (I don´t even know what is 7/7).

Is it better if we stop totally keep here any kind of political discussions if it makes some of our sensitive non-muslim members feels themselves unfomfortable when they have to read what kind of crimes against humanity some non-muslims have done and are doing every single day? And discuss about Islam only?

As a non-Muslim I find it difficult to understand anyone supporting the Taliban. The Taliban, even without 9/11, are an example of a government that suppresses all freedom. No TV, of course no internet. No opinion. It's very hard to support such a thing. War or no war. Anytime, it would be hard to support. If I can ask, what is it that makes you support them?

 

[sister herb]

What all this thread has to with USA policy at all?

What do non-Muslims want from Muslims?

I am muslim but not from USA. I am European.

 

[Mike3449]

What all this thread has to with USA policy at all?

What do non-Muslims want from Muslims?

I am muslim but not from USA. I am European.

I was just responding to what you said previously.

As a non-Muslim all I would ask from Muslims is to discuss things with me and help me understand Islam which would help me have a more grounded opinion. Based on knowledge.

 

[Perseveranze]

I was just responding to what you said previously.

As a non-Muslim all I would ask from Muslims is to discuss things with me and help me understand Islam which would help me have a more grounded opinion. Based on knowledge.

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Inshallah you'll be able to know the true Islam Feel free to make a thread regarding any queries you have.

 

[Mike3449]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Inshallah you'll be able to know the true Islam Feel free to make a thread regarding any queries you have.

I used to belong to MWU which was a Progressive (Leftist) Islamic Forum.

Some good folks there and we discussed Politics as well as religion.

It's very hard for me to base opinions on what the media offer. Not just about Islam, but about everything. All they really offer are talking heads and they argue and they expect you to believe whatever side you want to believe, for whatever reason. And, people do just that.

In our current circumstances, the war, it is very important to have an opinion that is as correct as possible. Also, our leaders must have correct opinions. It is the lack thereof that has led us to our current troubles. I believe that if our leaders had a good understanding of Islam we could have avoided all of our current troubles.

 

[Ramadhan]

The United States involves themselves in these regions to protect our own country from continued attacks.

How do The United States protect its country by attacking, invading and occupying other foreign states?
Please enlighten us.

Trust me when I tell you that NO American wants to be in the middle east unnecessarily

Is that why The US government was so gung-ho in attacking and invading, and creating lies in order to justify the invasion?

If Muslims stood up and defended rationality and reason, and therefore fought against those Muslim fundamentalists who do harm to people around the world as well as the reputation of Muslims around the world, then the US would have no need to interfere. Just based on outward appearances however, that lack of action on the part of the Muslim community has been perceived as an alliance with those fundamentalists.

Have you actually ever lived in any muslim countries?
Please provide evidence to support your assertion above.

When that crazy guy was planning on holding his Burn a Qu'ran day, EVERYONE in the US stood up and told him to knock it off, because we all knew it was wrong, and we don't want to be associated with people who are willingly doing harm to America's reputation.

Is that why everyone in the US is so excited and happy when a very peaceful group of muslims decided to build a house of worship which also serve as community centre in downtown NYC?

What do I want from Muslims?

Accountability.

What do I want from non-muslims?

less bull**** and hypocrisy.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Is that why everyone in the US is so excited and happy when a very peaceful group of muslims decided to build a house of worship which also serve as community centre in downtown NYC?

Not everyone in the U.S., not by far. It was a source of huge controversy, which alone is appalling enough, but at least it was there.