What do they believe?

[Ghazi]

Hmmm so your telling me that God (Allah) would allow you to enter paradise because you've branded yourself a Muslim in another words all the non muslims who dedicate their life to charity and good deeds and who believe in the almighty would be sent to hell when they die since they are not Muslims.
Ok interesting especially since if thats true then im guessing that all the people before the creation of Islam must have been sent to hell.

The past prophets are considered muslim since they taught the laws of allah and their followers will inshallah be in janna, a good non-muslim is reward here on earth for his good deeds but when we get to the hearafter there will be nothing for them.

 

[ISDhillon]

ok

why so dont u worship god how he wants to be worshiped, and

worship is not enough self-realisation is mans purpose even yours without it you will be reborn.

why do u worship him and pray to him through intercession by other priests,

a sikh has an unbroken lineage with the creator gurbani is not only the word of god the word is god.

why dnt u pray to him directly and

we do more than just that our bani awakens our soul this is the greatness of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji no other scripture does that and those that say that their scripture does then must also believe in the concept of self-realisation

why dnt u follow the quran which is the word of god

the koran is false I have told you this before our guru says all semitic and hindu scriptures are false, they are not the word of god they are the word of an angel, if you want the word of god you must read Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji it is the only direct revelation on earth.

ISDhillon:thankyou:

 

[ISDhillon]

The past prophets are considered muslim since they taught the laws of allah and their followers will inshallah be in janna, a good non-muslim is reward here on earth for his good deeds but when we get to the hearafter there will be nothing for them.

our religion which is the only direct revelation says this belief is false you are welcome to it but we know the truth and that is that there is no judgement of sorts at all, what comes after can judge the past but the past cannot judge the future, when islam was faced with the gurus they all bowed down in reverence as they knew they had been living a lie, but cos times gone on the ego has swelled and you think your religion is true but we know better.

 

[ISDhillon]

and yes a person who aposticates from islam shud be killed under shariah law as there is no disbelief after belief. altho there are certain conditions i believe such as them being given a chance to repent and come back to the deen al haq, ill find out for u but yes they are killed if they aposticate.

[/QUOTE]

this would not be allowed in sikhism even for muslims this is a form of tyranny as god has never taught us such cruelty in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji no wonder my gurus reject these scriptures as false I pray that waheguru will rehabilitate you from such beliefs.

 

[Ghazi]

our religion which is the only direct revelation says this belief is false you are welcome to it but we know the truth and that is that there is no judgement of sorts at all, what comes after can judge the past but the past cannot judge the future, when islam was faced with the gurus they all bowed down in reverence as they knew they had been living a lie, but cos times gone on the ego has swelled and you think your religion is true but we know better.

Muslims bow to a guru never, can you prove this.

 

[ISDhillon]

Muslims bow to a guru never, can you prove this.

what do you think we all came from?

pir buddhu shah, mian meer, ghani khan nabhi khan, mardana, 700 pathans converted to sikhism out of love for guru gobind singh ji, dara shikoh, when guru nanak left this earth hindus and muslim fought for his funeral ceremony, must i go on, in fact even today in pakistan many muslims believe in sikhism more than islam but obviously they dont make a song and dance about cos you people kill them. Let me know if you want more there is an abundance of persian poetry, literature, and even your prophets son-inlaw saif i think hazrat ali was given to the guru:http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060210/punjab1.htm#7

happy reading amigos,

ISDhillon

 

[Nicola]

what do you think we all came from?

pir buddhu shah, mian meer, ghani khan nabhi khan, mardana, 700 pathans converted to sikhism out of love for guru gobind singh ji, dara shikoh, when guru nanak left this earth hindus and muslim fought for his funeral ceremony, must i go on, in fact even today in pakistan many muslims believe in sikhism more than islam but obviously they dont make a song and dance about cos you people kill them. Let me know if you want more there is an abundance of persian poetry, literature, and even your prophets son-inlaw saif i think hazrat ali was given to the guru:http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060210/punjab1.htm#7

happy reading amigos,

ISDhillon

This is really interesting...if you have time...would you tell me...basically is this artical true..the links below

Historically, local forms of Islam and Hinduism have borrowed from each other and we need to build on this to critique other forms of religion propagated by political elites and right-wing obscurantist religious groups that are exclusivist and that target people of other faiths'.

Sindh is known for its deeply-rooted Sufi traditions, which brought together Sindhi Hindus and Muslims in shared cultural world characterized by reverence of common saints. The situation in Punjab is similar. 'Numerous Punjabi Sufi saints, whose works are still immensely popular, are known for their breath of vision, seeing God's light in every particle of the universe, in the mosque as well as the temple', says Saeeda Diep, my host in Lahore. She takes me to the shrine of Madho Lal Husain in downtown Lahore, a unique Sufi dargah that houses the graves of two male lovers, Madho, a Hindu, and Husain, a Muslim, who were so close that they are today remembered by a single name. She waxes eloquent about the unconventional love relationship between the two that angered the pundits and mullahs but won the hearts of the masses.

http://www.countercurrents.org/ipk-sikand260106.htm

Peace

 

[Kidman]

The past prophets are considered muslim since they taught the laws of allah and their followers will inshallah be in janna, a good non-muslim is reward here on earth for his good deeds but when we get to the hearafter there will be nothing for them.

You are wrong. There are good Christians, and Jews, that are "people of the book" that will enter heaven also. Not just the ones from before Islam, but after as well. You cannot say that a good person, will not enter heaven... you cannot be one to judge that. They must though, believe in only ONE God. Allah is Most Gracious, Most Merciful, and Most forgiving.

If the person studied Islam and then rejects the teachings then yes, Islamically that person is sentenced to hell even though they might be a good person. If a person never really studied Islam but is still a good person... he will be tested during the day of Judgement and that will determine him/her entrance to heaven or hell.

Same as if there was a person that lives in a remote area, but they never heard the word Islam, Muslim, or anything related to that... then Allah is not going to punish them for that. If the person lives a good life, believes in God, and does good deeds and stuff then that in itself could be a good enough entrance to heaven.

Kavon

 

[ISDhillon]

Hi Nicola,

Actually their many stories like that one I will post one here, its about a muslim saint called sarmad who was executed also by aurangzeb: http://www.crda-france.org/fr/6histoire/par_pays/inde_sarmad1.htm

there many like him all of them were brutally tortured or executed by the regime of that time thats why khalsa was created to make sure that the sign of the shah would be for eternity wiped of the face of the earth. The article is by a popualr writer who has tried with all his might to reconnect india and pakistan, the problem with him is sometimes he, perhaps unknowingly, is deliberately contraversial so people are weary of what he writes. But yeah the article is good not fully accurate though but you see punjab, sindh and basically that whole of india have an incredibly rich cultural heritage, on ourside of pujab which is the eastern side we have preserved culture and reconstructed new genres aswell, but the western side is being fastly eroded by religious fanatics. The good thing is that mussharraf has wisened up to this bigotry early on and so is striking them hard and rooting out all the baddies. Basically its like freedom and democracy, in punjab the state of living was great even prior to the raj and people dont forget that, islamic theocracy just did not work for the people of pakistan cos they share a composite heritage with india and therefore you cannot function as a body with your legs chopped of. This prooves that societies can only evolve not devolve, like they say "once you go black you never go back" lol;D

Kind regards,

ISDhillon

 

[Ghazi]

You are wrong. There are good Christians, and Jews, that are "people of the book" that will enter heaven also. Not just the ones from before Islam, but after as well. You cannot say that a good person, will not enter heaven... you cannot be one to judge that. They must though, believe in only ONE God. Allah is Most Gracious, Most Merciful, and Most forgiving.

If the person studied Islam and then rejects the teachings then yes, Islamically that person is sentenced to hell even though they might be a good person. If a person never really studied Islam but is still a good person... he will be tested during the day of Judgement and that will determine him/her entrance to heaven or hell.

Same as if there was a person that lives in a remote area, but they never heard the word Islam, Muslim, or anything related to that... then Allah is not going to punish them for that. If the person lives a good life, believes in God, and does good deeds and stuff then that in itself could be a good enough entrance to heaven.

Kavon

Salaam

Your wrong brother, Islam has been sent down to this dunya, look around you most people know about islam through the media, without accepting the message our prophet(pbuh) told us about then your doomed, allah has prefected our deen so why would he accept something else, to your second point someone who can honestly say they havn't heard of islam then they'll have a speciel test for them on the day of judgment, remember we enter janna through the mercy of allah not our deeds a person could be a saint but if that person isn't a muslim then it won't matter on the hearafter.

 

[ISDhillon]

Salaam

Your wrong brother, Islam has been sent down to this dunya, look around you most people know about islam through the media, without accepting the message our prophet(pbuh) told us about then your doomed, allah has prefected our deen so why would he accept something else, to your second point someone who can honestly say they havn't heard of islam then they'll have a speciel test for them on the day of judgment, remember we enter janna through the mercy of allah not our deeds a person could be a saint but if that person isn't a muslim then it won't matter on the hearafter.

No offence but this has nothing to do with sikhism so by all means raise it as a new thread in the basics of islam section ,because i remember the other sikhism thread ended up about a discussion on the Dr ZN lecture about the sexual activities of pigs, and i dont want that to happen on this one.

Thankx

ISDhillon:thankyou:

 

[Ghazi]

No offence but this has nothing to do with sikhism so by all means raise it as a new thread in the basics of islam section ,because i remember the other sikhism thread ended up about a discussion on the Dr ZN lecture about the sexual activities of pigs, and i dont want that to happen on this one.

Thankx

ISDhillon:thankyou:

Fair enough sorry for posting off-topic.

 

[- Qatada -]

You are wrong. There are good Christians, and Jews, that are "people of the book" that will enter heaven also. Not just the ones from before Islam, but after as well. You cannot say that a good person, will not enter heaven... you cannot be one to judge that. They must though, believe in only ONE God. Allah is Most Gracious, Most Merciful, and Most forgiving.

If the person studied Islam and then rejects the teachings then yes, Islamically that person is sentenced to hell even though they might be a good person. If a person never really studied Islam but is still a good person... he will be tested during the day of Judgement and that will determine him/her entrance to heaven or hell.

Same as if there was a person that lives in a remote area, but they never heard the word Islam, Muslim, or anything related to that... then Allah is not going to punish them for that. If the person lives a good life, believes in God, and does good deeds and stuff then that in itself could be a good enough entrance to heaven.

Kavon

:salamext:


Brother, that is not correct.

Surely those who disbelieve in Allah and His apostles and (those who) desire to make a distinction between Allah and His apostles and say: We believe in some and disbelieve in others, and desire to take a course between (this and) that.

These it is that are truly unbelievers, and We have prepared for the unbelievers a disgraceful chastisement.

[Surah Nisaa Ayah 150-151]​

Therefore, Allaah Almighty is telling us that if a person rejects one of the prophets, he has rejected them all.

And if a christian or jew has rejected our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) - then he has rejected all the previous prophets too [inc. Jesus, Moses & all the other prophets (peace be upon them all]

If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). (Qur'an 3:85)​

Allaah Almighty knows best.


:wasalamex

 

[Nicola]

Hi Nicola,

Actually their many stories like that one I will post one here, its about a muslim saint called sarmad who was executed also by aurangzeb: http://www.crda-france.org/fr/6histoire/par_pays/inde_sarmad1.htm

there many like him all of them were brutally tortured or executed by the regime of that time thats why khalsa was created to make sure that the sign of the shah would be for eternity wiped of the face of the earth. The article is by a popualr writer who has tried with all his might to reconnect india and pakistan, the problem with him is sometimes he, perhaps unknowingly, is deliberately contraversial so people are weary of what he writes. But yeah the article is good not fully accurate though but you see punjab, sindh and basically that whole of india have an incredibly rich cultural heritage, on ourside of pujab which is the eastern side we have preserved culture and reconstructed new genres aswell, but the western side is being fastly eroded by religious fanatics. The good thing is that mussharraf has wisened up to this bigotry early on and so is striking them hard and rooting out all the baddies. Basically its like freedom and democracy, in punjab the state of living was great even prior to the raj and people dont forget that, islamic theocracy just did not work for the people of pakistan cos they share a composite heritage with india and therefore you cannot function as a body with your legs chopped of. This prooves that societies can only evolve not devolve, like they say "once you go black you never go back" lol;D

Kind regards,

ISDhillon

thank you for helping me understand more..
this is really good news...I'll have to ask my friends about it..

"once you go black you never go back
;D

 

[ISDhillon]

Satsriakal!:thankyou:


When it comes to the evolution of life, Guru Arjun (fifth Nanak) couldn’t have spoken more clearly than these words about 250 years before Charles Darwin:

Homo sapiens evolved through countless forms of life like other species - ants, worms, moths, fish, elephants, dears, snakes and domestic animals like horses and bullocks- starting from inanimate matter, the basic elements. Moreover, he goes on to say that basic elements were recycled as inanimate matter like rock and mountains before the creation of “building blocks” for evolution of a living cell. Please see quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji:



gauVI guAwryrI mhlw 5 ]

gourree guaaraeree mehalaa 5 ||

Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:

10 NULL NULL


keI jnm Bey kIt pqMgw ]

kee janam bheae keett pathangaa ||

In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;

10 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


keI jnm gj mIn kurMgw ]

kee janam gaj meen kurangaa ||

in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.

11 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


keI jnm pMKI srp hoieE ]

kee janam pankhee sarap hoeiou ||

In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.

11 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


keI jnm hYvr ibRK joieE ]1]

kee janam haivar brikh joeiou ||1||

In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||

11 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


imlu jgdIs imln kI brIAw ]

mil jagadhees milan kee bareeaa ||

Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.

12 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


icrMkwl ieh dyh sMjrIAw ]1] rhwau ]

chirankaal eih dhaeh sanjareeaa ||1|| rehaao ||

After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||

12 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


keI jnm sYl igir kirAw ]

kee janam sail gir kariaa ||

In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;

12 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


keI jnm grB ihir KirAw ]

kee janam garabh hir khariaa ||

in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;

13 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


keI jnm swK kir aupwieAw ]

kee janam saakh kar oupaaeiaa ||

in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;

13 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


lK caurwsIh join BRmwieAw ]2]

lakh chouraaseeh jon bhramaaeiaa ||2||

you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||

13 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


swDsMig BieE jnmu prwpiq ]

saadhhasang bhaeiou janam paraapath ||

Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.

14 Gaurhee Guaarayree Guru Arjan Dev


Guru Nanak also postulated that in the cosmos there are other planets with life.

God’s worth (greatness) is beyond measure, nor it can be overestimated. You alone are the True Lord of mine and of other beings of countless worlds. AGGS, M 1, p 15.

There are living beings in water, on land and in the cosmos. O Creator, You know their needs as You take care of them. AGGS, M 1, p 466.


Do other religions talk about life on other planets on the cosmos?

ISDhillon

 

[ISDhillon]

Thats fine Nicola I am glad it helped

 

[Khoza]

Guru Nanak also postulated that in the cosmos there are other planets with life.
Do other religions talk about life on other planets on the cosmos?

ISDhillon

Yes i quote that Guru Nanak said:
"There are worlds upon worlds, solar systems upon solar systems, galaxies upon galaxies, universes upon universes, spheres upon spheres, They function according to Command of God. God gets joy by thinking of and beholding His Creation.

Beyond this Earth, there are many more and more earths. What power bears their load from underneath?''

Over 540 years ago, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji astonishingly stated that there were countless galaxies, planets and universies. While Galileo 'father of modern astronomy,' was not born until 100 years later. At a time when the world believe the earth to be flat, the sun, stars and heavens revolved around this one earthly planet. Onlyin recent years is science proving Guru Ji right. However his Muslim counterparts believed something about seven earths or something.

 

[ISDhillon]

Yes i quote that Guru Nanak said:
"There are worlds upon worlds, solar systems upon solar systems, galaxies upon galaxies, universes upon universes, spheres upon spheres, They function according to Command of God. God gets joy by thinking of and beholding His Creation.

Beyond this Earth, there are many more and more earths. What power bears their load from underneath?''

Over 540 years ago, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji astonishingly stated that there were countless galaxies, planets and universies. While Galileo 'father of modern astronomy,' was not born until 100 years later. At a time when the world believe the earth to be flat, the sun, stars and heavens revolved around this one earthly planet. Onlyin recent years is science proving Guru Ji right. However his Muslim counterparts believed something about seven earths or something.

Yeah this is true and it was proven in baghdad to a muslim, here read the article:

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php?title=Guru_Nanak_in_Baghdad

 

[Mohsin]

Daffodil just wanna ask some genuine questions about Muslims that have always puzzled me.

Do Muslims believe in reincarnation?

In regard to heaven and hell, how does do the Islamic scriptures describe heaven, and hell?

Is it true that according to your religion non-Muslims cannot enter paradise/heaven?

Under sharia law, is it true that if a Muslim converts to another faith then
they should be killed?

we dnt believe in reincarnation, however there is life after death where we will reside in either hell or heaven for eternity after we have been judgeded by our creator.

heaven and hell is mentioned countless times in the quran and the hadith of the prophet saw, and is described in many ways. it describes different punishments in the hell fire etc and different rewards in paradise.

a non muslim will never be able to enter paradise. however a person who believes in Allah swt will.

and yes a person who aposticates from islam shud be killed under shariah law as there is no disbelief after belief. altho there are certain conditions i believe such as them being given a chance to repent and come back to the deen al haq, ill find out for u but yes they are killed if they aposticate.

I don't think what sister Daffodil has said is entirely correct

Is it true that according to your religion non-Muslims cannot enter paradise/heaven?

If they never heard of Islam then there will be a separate judgement for them. For more information see posts here Mother Teresa- Heaven/Hell

Under sharia law, is it true that if a Muslim converts to another faith then
they should be killed

No that is not entirely true. What happened in Afghanistan was wrong. In the Qur'an it says there is no compulsion in religion. If someone leaves islam to revolt against the state thats a differnt issue

This post by Ansar Al 'Adl explains it well http://www.islamicboard.com/20595-post1.html
For full thread go here Islam and Apostasy

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

However his Muslim counterparts believed something about seven earths or something.

If you don't know, then you shouldn't comment on it. There are more than enough Muslims on this forum to provide the correct view of what Muslims believe. I don't mind if you want to use this thread for explaining Sikhism, but you are using it for attacking Islam and Muslims and attributing false views to them - Islam has not denied the vastness of space and the existence of other galaxies. And the Qur'an is God's revelation of guidance for the human being, not a human's astronomical observations.

If the thread is not going to be used for a discussion of Sikhism then it can be closed and the individual allegations against Islam examined in alternate threads.

Regards