What does Islam say about wealth and heaven?

[Zafran]

To deny telepathy, I would have to convince my wife that she had a delusion. You do not know my wife. I do not have the balls to try to force a lie on her.

If God is as all powerful as you think then He should have the power to show Himself.

If you want to believe miracles happened then do so. If you do then you would believe in the great food and believe that a god that makes all things perfect would have to destroy His perfect works including so called evil children and babies and animals. Explain how children. Babies and animals can be evil.

As to hell, it would be completely unjust for men who can only sin for 120 yrs. , to have a sentence of 1200000000000000000000000+ yrs imposed on them. Both unjust and Religulous.
Have you seen that movie BTW.

To think that little sinners like you and I would spend eternity with a Hitler and Stalin and God Himself as the greatest genocidal maniac is just too silly to even consider.

Regards
DL

Firstly of all God has the power to do everything - God can show up if God wnated - you or me or any other human cannot dictate that.

secodnaly God is the best Judge - the sentnec for the wrongdoers will be a just one.

I could say the same thing like !To think that telelpathy exists is just too silly to consider" and besides how do you know Hitler nad Stalin are in hell?? You dont. How do you know your going to be in hell the same time as other people - what is your proof - do you follow a revelation or are you making this up as you go along?

children are not evil - they actually go to heaven when they die - this life isnt the be all and end all - there is a better place to achieve.

Animals are made for human use.

Once again by perfect - is that God made man in great statue - not what you mean eg humans acting perfectly.

 

[Zafran]

My heart was the same before I believed in my God as after. You said belief was not required did you not?

Regards
DL

where did is say that???? I said

Belief is part of having a good heart - so is being a morally upright person - all these things effect to create a sound heart

If your heart hasnt changed maybe you didnt change at all - or maybe you seriously on the wrong path.

 

[aamirsaab]

.... Man should and is allowed to follow his nature. The only restrictions should be if a victim is being created by his or her actions.

Regards
DL

Sorry to stick my rear end in here, but I have issue with this ''man behaving natural'' business. Fact is, if you truly subscribe to that notion, you would be living in the jungles where you would have complete freedoms (more than in any human society) and ability to take out any and all natural urges without inhibition or complaints from other members of society. Of course, you'd probably have to fight a gorilla at some point, so make sure you're nice and fit!

The reality is, we as humans operate on laws and leaders and we have standards for ourselves. Like taking a crap in the toilet instead of in your pants (no matter how long you have been holding that turtle in!). We all have urges, but we have to maintain control over them. Otherwise, we'd all be wearing diapers to work.

Keeping with that example, let's say your Dad tells you to stop laying bricks in your pants or you're gonna get fired (heck, maybe arrested for indecent exposure). He's not saying that because he's interested in your (lack of) toilet ettiquette. He's saying it for your own good!

It's the same thing in Islam: the things we are to stay away from is for our OWN benefit; alcohol, gambling, adultery, crack, black magic etc etc. All for our own good.

 

[Great I am not]

Zafran

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKTony
Allah changes destinies for those who truly change in their hearts and acknowledge his oneness,we have free will to choose this. our lot remains, ie if we were written for wealth or sickness etc, but Allah helps those who believe

If belief is not required for entry into heaven and a good heart is all that is needed, then the help here is relatively insignificant. small gifts are always nice though.

Regards
DL

I read this as saying that Allah will help those who believe and if others use their free will are cannot believe then their lot remains at whatever it is to be.

Is this not what it is, if not then is free will to mean believe or go to hell?

-----------------------------------------------------

You say that God can do this and that and on and on like some fundamental Christian with absolutely no proof except the Bible. In your case the Quran.

You both read your books as the WORD of God.

In the Christian Bible it warns against idol worship.

Does yours?
If it does then why do you idolize your book?

Regards
DL

 

[Great I am not]

Sorry to stick my rear end in here, but I have issue with this ''man behaving natural'' business. Fact is, if you truly subscribe to that notion, you would be living in the jungles where you would have complete freedoms (more than in any human society) and ability to take out any and all natural urges without inhibition or complaints from other members of society. Of course, you'd probably have to fight a gorilla at some point, so make sure you're nice and fit!

The reality is, we as humans operate on laws and leaders and we have standards for ourselves. Like taking a crap in the toilet instead of in your pants (no matter how long you have been holding that turtle in!). We all have urges, but we have to maintain control over them. Otherwise, we'd all be wearing diapers to work.

Keeping with that example, let's say your Dad tells you to stop laying bricks in your pants or you're gonna get fired (heck, maybe arrested for indecent exposure). He's not saying that because he's interested in your (lack of) toilet ettiquette. He's saying it for your own good!

It's the same thing in Islam: the things we are to stay away from is for our OWN benefit; alcohol, gambling, adultery, crack, black magic etc etc. All for our own good.

I reiterate. There is a place for society and law to intervene in the affairs of men.
When there is a victim with a complaint.

If there is no victim or complaint then man nor god has any business interfering in whatever activity is going on.

Alcohol--If I have a drink or three while watching tv at night--who do I offend and who would complain and why?

Gambling--If I invite 3 friends and play some penny poker on Friday night--who do we offend or hurt. Who would complain and why?

Adultery--there is a victim.

Crack--if my wife and I like to stretch out on Saturday night and chip crack. Who is offended or hurt and who will complain and why?

Black Magic--LOL
Are you serious?

Regards
DL

 

[Zafran]

I reiterate. There is a place for society and law to intervene in the affairs of men.
When there is a victim with a complaint.

If there is no victim or complaint then man nor god has any business interfering in whatever activity is going on.

Alcohol--If I have a drink or three while watching tv at night--who do I offend and who would complain and why?

Gambling--If I invite 3 friends and play some penny poker on Friday night--who do we offend or hurt. Who would complain and why?

Adultery--there is a victim.

Crack--if my wife and I like to stretch out on Saturday night and chip crack. Who is offended or hurt and who will complain and why?

Black Magic--LOL
Are you serious?

Regards
DL

what about your parents?

Are you serious?

coming from a guy who believes in Telepathy

 

[Zafran]

Zafran

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKTony
Allah changes destinies for those who truly change in their hearts and acknowledge his oneness,we have free will to choose this. our lot remains, ie if we were written for wealth or sickness etc, but Allah helps those who believe

If belief is not required for entry into heaven and a good heart is all that is needed, then the help here is relatively insignificant. small gifts are always nice though.

Regards
DL


I read this as saying that Allah will help those who believe and if others use their free will are cannot believe then their lot remains at whatever it is to be.

Is this not what it is, if not then is free will to mean believe or go to hell?

-----------------------------------------------------

You say that God can do this and that and on and on like some fundamental Christian with absolutely no proof except the Bible. In your case the Quran.

You both read your books as the WORD of God.

In the Christian Bible it warns against idol worship.

Does yours?
If it does then why do you idolize your book?

Regards
DL

First of all nowhere did Tktony say you dont have to believe - if so show me??

second you choose not to believe nobody is forcing you to believe unlike your wife on Telepathy.

furthermore the Quran isnt just a book its the speech of God given to the prophet Muhammad pbuh - if i believe in a revelation and base my beliefs on that it atleast its on a common bases - you however idolize your desires - today you like idea A the next day you like Idea B - Your a slave to desires - You sound like a emo kid who bases all his judgements on your desires. As I said the Quran and the prophet Muhammad pbuh are the proofes - including the other prophets who have made a major impact in the world.

Your desires havent got bases - atleast people of religion have a bases on revelation and people.

- following your desires is an idol. Your idol.

 

[aamirsaab]

...
Alcohol--If I have a drink or three while watching tv at night--who do I offend and who would complain and why?

Alcohol screws up your mind and your liver. Bad for you.

Gambling--If I invite 3 friends and play some penny poker on Friday night--who do we offend or hurt. Who would complain and why?

Gambling is psychologically addictive and odds of winning are never in your favour. You waste your own money and time trying to beat the odds. Bad for you.

Crack--if my wife and I like to stretch out on Saturday night and chip crack. Who is offended or hurt and who will complain and why?

crack messes up your body. Bad for you.

Black Magic--LOL
Are you serious?

Yep; there's some crazy **** in this world that you really do not want to mess with. For your own benefit.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

My choice was forced on me by God himself. Not the miracle working God but the true God of this world.

The view of Islam as to how God judges belief and goodness of the heart without belief, is more just than the Bible God it seems. Good.

Regards
DL

Your choice was not forced by God. He gave you options, believe or disbelieve. You can accept Him or reject Him and earn the consequences.

 

[Tony]

Zafran

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKTony
Allah changes destinies for those who truly change in their hearts and acknowledge his oneness,we have free will to choose this. our lot remains, ie if we were written for wealth or sickness etc, but Allah helps those who believe

If belief is not required for entry into heaven and a good heart is all that is needed, then the help here is relatively insignificant. small gifts are always nice though.

Regards
DL

I read this as saying that Allah will help those who believe and if others use their free will are cannot believe then their lot remains at whatever it is to be.

Is this not what it is, if not then is free will to mean believe or go to hell?

-----------------------------------------------------


DL

dont understand ur post, sorry. if we acceptthe oneness of Allah he will help us , if not then u are kuffar. destiny remains, but ur time on earth will be with the assistance of Allah if u change ur heart towards Allah

 

[Tony]

It is true that ii cannot prove the existence of my God any better than anyone else can for theirs but I do have some facts to go on.

In the spirit, a term the old prophets used to indicate their contact with God I call in modern term, telepathy.
I had two such experiences with telepathy. The first with my wife, and the second with what I call the Godhead.
If the first had not happened and been confirmed by my wife, I would not likely believe the second.
Because I cannot deny telepathy then I am forced to believe that I had contact with the Godhead.
I did not believe before this but did seek answers to God by debate and discussions.
I have no great revelation to speak of. It was, now that I understand our true reality, not that exciting of a deal.
He/It confirmed my thinking on religious issues and chastised me for not thinking demographically enough and that is about it.

Most do not believe me and I do not push this belief because as I say, I cannot prove it, but am happy to speak of it.

Even Abraham, Moses and Mohamed did not have real proof.

Regards
DL

with respect i cannot see millions of people following ur version of God in 1,500 yrs time !!!

 

[Raaina]

Interesting website, thanks for sharing that, i'm going to take a look

 

[Great I am not]

.

I seet that this discussion has gone to the same way of any discussion with a Christian Fundamental.

You did not speak to the issues and turned to insult and preaching.

Regards
DL

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Maybe I missed the insult part, but you happen to be an ISLAMIC forum. Us answering you doesnt conclude preaching just cause you happen to feel that way.

 

[Great I am not]

Alcohol screws up your mind and your liver. Bad for you.


Gambling is psychologically addictive and odds of winning are never in your favour. You waste your own money and time trying to beat the odds. Bad for you.


crack messes up your body. Bad for you.


Yep; there's some crazy **** in this world that you really do not want to mess with. For your own benefit.

Stockholm syndrome.

It is lack of freedom of will when I must believe in witches.

Give your head a shake.

Regards
DL

 

[Great I am not]

Your choice was not forced by God. He gave you options, believe or disbelieve. You can accept Him or reject Him and earn the consequences.

Yep accept and get a big kiss. Reject and burn forever.
Nice choice that.
Oops that is not a choice it is an ultimatum. Imagine that.

You can tell your God that man does not do well under threats and He can shove them.
What kind of dumb God would use threat as a tool of social manipulation?

Regards
DL

 

[aamirsaab]

Stockholm syndrome.

What are you talking about? Those are well known and reported scientific facts (apart from the black magic stuff); why are you arguing against that?!

It is lack of freedom of will when I must believe in witches.

Whether or not you believe in something does not negate your freedom of will. In any case, are you now disputing or agreeing with the negative effects of adulterey, gambling, drug usage and alcohol consumption?

Give your head a shake.

Regards
DL

You first.

Yep accept and get a big kiss. Reject and burn forever.
Nice choice that.
Oops that is not a choice it is an ultimatum. Imagine that.

I'd call it nice and simple.

You can tell your God that man does not do well under threats and He can shove them.

Well given all you, personally, would have to sacrifice is alcohol, gambling and adultery, I really don't think you're being threatened; it's like if a doctor tells you yeah keep eating junk food and you'll die. Eat veggies and fruit and you'll live. It's for your own benefit anyway and the only difference is one has a substantially greater pay-out: Paradise.

Also factor into the account your argument being fallacious in that if you believe in the existence of hell and heaven (and you'd have to otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about it), that would make you a follower and thus would enter paradise. In which case, there is no problem.

If you don't believe in the existence of such things, why get worked up about it? It doesn't exist; it's like me getting worked up about Skeletor coming back from Despondos so he can team up with King Hiss and Lord Hordak to overthrow Castle Greyskull, kill He-man and steal his Sword of Power.

What kind of dumb God would use threat as a tool of social manipulation?

Regards
DL

That's where your knowledge about God suffers; it's not about threatening. It's telling you straight up. Of course, if you'd rather be lulled into some sort of falseness and then end up getting screwed in the process, then seek another path.

As for social manipulation; Islam covers every aspect of life; from legal matters to agriculture; business standards to marrital; health care to animal safety and so on and so forth! It is not simply: Yeah God exists, or Yeah God doesn't exist; it's a complete way of life.

Plus, at the end of the day, noone can say for sure who is going to heaven or hell; even muslims do not know this - we're not God; only He decides who goes where. So in actuality we're all in the same boat.

 

[Zafran]

I seet that this discussion has gone to the same way of any discussion with a Christian Fundamental.

You did not speak to the issues and turned to insult and preaching.

Regards
DL

thats what happens with most of time when people use there emotions and realise thats excatly what they have emotions - no revelation - no verification principle - Just pure emotion.

Just like you criticize religous people for following revelation the same way I'm criticizing you for using your mere emotions and basing your whole ideas on that and you dont even realise it - I'm getting at the heart of the issue. Today you say you like A the Next day you like B.

I'm sure I spoke of The issues you just didnt like the answers - what did I do hurt your emotions??
The below were my answers not a fullstop

Firstly of all God has the power to do everything - God can show up if God wnated - you or me or any other human cannot dictate that.

secodnaly God is the best Judge - the sentence for the wrongdoers will be a just one.

I could say the same thing like "To think that telelpathy exists is just too silly to consider" and besides how do you know Hitler nad Stalin are in hell?? You dont. How do you know your going to be in hell the same time as other people - what is your proof - do you follow a revelation or are you making this up as you go along?

children are not evil - they actually go to heaven when they die - this life isnt the be all and end all - there is a better place to achieve.

Animals are made for human use.

Once again by perfect - is that God made man in great statue - not what you mean eg humans acting perfectly.

Not

.

 

[Zafran]

I agree that we are here to learn but we have no restrictions. It is obvious that man has dominion here on earth. Who else makes laws and enforces them if not man.

God has chosen Man to uphold the law - if man doesnt do it then havoc will break out - thats the warning and will harm man.

When people do wrong they are following their natures. If you believe that God makes our souls and natures then if things are not what He wants then it is to Him not to create us as we are.

No God has given you will and has told you what is bad for you and what is good for you - its up to the human to upheld for his own Good or have no laws and fall in to trouble - There is a choice.

As to sex. In this country the state says that it has no business in the bedrooms of the nation. This is the correct policy and I take it further and say that if there is a god then He too has no business in the bedrooms of the nation. Man should and is allowed to follow his nature. The only restrictions should be if a victim is being created by his or her actions.

This is not sound at all - with HIV and Aids running free and many other STDs the state has to do something about it - As said before You want to have sex with who ever you want but you are warned of the negative impacts it can bring

Not to mention Teenage Pregnancies and brokern families that the state has to pay for.

Its as simple as this - You upheld the boundreis then your going to be safer - If not you are in risk of getting in a mess.

 

[Muezzin]

Yep accept and get a big kiss. Reject and burn forever.
Nice choice that.
Oops that is not a choice it is an ultimatum. Imagine that.

Eat a balanced diet, don't smoke or consume alcohol and get a decent amount of exercise. Live a healthy life.

Eat a fatty diet, smoke like a chimney, drink like a fish, and don't exercise at all. Develop a multitude of health problems and shorten your lifespan.

Nice choice that.

Oops, that is not a choice, that is the ultimatum of basic human biology. Imagine that.

More seriously, I don't really understand the contempt for this sort of carrot and stick approach when our everyday lives are so often based upon it. It strikes me as disengenous that critics of religion who do criticise this approach, only do so when it is employed in religion.

Can a rich Church or man or Mosques get into heaven?

In Islam, of course a rich Muslim man can get into heaven, provided he has performed enough good deeds. Wealth or lack thereof has nothing to do with it.

To quote a certain Samuel L Jackson bank advert 'Money is not evil! Love of money is evil! If a chicken had money, would the chicken be evil?'

If none can compare to Him then what give this, with respect, alien God the right to rule men?

The fact that He created men.

If I make a robot, I rule the robot. It is not presided over by King Optimus and Queen Arcee.