What is mysticism?

:sl:

A mystic is not an ordinary person but somebody who has developed an intuitive faculty to a high degree giving him an inner sense of knowing. To disparage mysticism is to disparage every holy person that ever lived.

Define 'holy'. In Islam there is no one who is considered 'holy' so that he has some special hidden knowledge of the Qur'an that others don't have.

The Qur'an is a mystical book that requires interpretation. The question arises as to who's word can be trusted to give that interpretation.
It's a non-question. The only correct understanding of the Qur'an is the understanding that the first three generations had as the Messenger isolated them out by saying that they are the best of this nation.

Mainstream Muslims would argue that the Hadith provides the answers.
Yes, and the Hadith are understood by the understanding of the Companions and the first three generations.

However, the Hadith was not transcribed by Mohammed and for the most part was not written by mystics, but by ordinary people prone to lies, bigotry and irrationality.
But they were transcribed in front of him during his time and in the times of the Companions. The Companions are of a higher status than any 'mystic' can possibly ever reach and those that followed them in the next generations. Would the Hadith be of higher authenticity to you if they were written by some so-called mystics who know nothing of the exact and precise science of writing and classifying hadith?

Nevertheless, many mainstream Muslims quote the Hadith as if it were holy text.
While the text of the Hadith itself is not holy as the text of the Qur'an where one gets rewarded for simply reciting it, the hadith do hold the same legal weight as the Qur'an.
 
Salamualaykum, I see Al Madani has already been disproving the following statement from Laith Al-Doory, however, there are a few other refutations which my mind naturally springs to, that I can provide. My mind is not so trained in a Muslim education, yet also is in full agreement with Qur'an and other Ahadith, so it is worthy to contrast my refutation with that of an educated Muslim.

A mystic is not an ordinary person but somebody who has developed an intuitive faculty to a high degree giving him an inner sense of knowing. To disparage mysticism is to disparage every holy person that ever lived.

The Qur'an is a mystical book that requires interpretation. The question arises as to who's word can be trusted to give that interpretation. Mainstream Muslims would argue that the Hadith provides the answers. However, the Hadith was not transcribed by Mohammed and for the most part was not written by mystics, but by ordinary people prone to lies, bigotry and irrationality. Nevertheless, many mainstream Muslims quote the Hadith as if it were holy text.


First I agree that a person named as a Mystic is not an ordinary person. Usually the reason anybody is labelled as a Mystic, is because other persons can not fathom how they are sustaining Islam. Sometimes that is why we are cautious of every matter of any mystical nature, it just seems impossible and so we assume a lie. In fact there are texts in mystical traditions, such as the Kalama Sutra of Buddhism, which instruct us not to believe that any phenomenon is Holy only because of its Mystery. So while a Mystic is not ordinary, a real Mystic always resembles and presents their self as normally as can possibly be attained.

Laith Al-Doory writes that a mystic, being un-ordinary, is rather: "developed an intuitive faculty to a high degree which give him an inner sense of knowing", but here I have to disagree. The "Intuition" is not a well enough defined word to use. What is intuitive to me, might be against all wants to another person, and so if you say that intuition defines a mystical tradition, then you invite those persons whom intuitively want to sin to acquire empathy with real Holy men.

The wisdom held in Judaism about mysticism is a reference to the wonderment of witnessing miracle.

Please beware of confusing that real traditional worth with those whom seek only to imitate it.

About what you tell of Ahadith, you ought to get your facts straight. Ahadith is all very rigorously well documented as the exact words of Mohammed. We can equate Ahadith to having actual documentary evidence of every word spoken by a figure like Moses: what enormous value these sentences must be regarded in. Whose regard the sentences of Ahadith are being held by, is what ever defines the nature of as less than Holy.

You write that Qur'an is mystical, and therefore requires interpretation. But therein you are forgetting the nature of Prayer. Is it not the truth that really valuable intuition is engaged through Prayer, or mediation being the same mental state.

What is unique among all Religions to Islam, is that a facility has opened within Human mental processing, which enables any person to enter into that Prayerful state of mind as a Mystic. For one man he might be able to be in that state of mind 24 hours a day by nature, yet for another, he need bow down with an Imam within Mosque to be so able. Yet Islam teaches that the beneficience of that state of mind need be provided into the experience of every individual. While I am stable in that state of mind constantly, I can thereby, because the state of mind has been made available to every Muslim, begin to learn why, and understand the condition, in which other persons find it difficult to sustain a stable frame of mind and emotion, when in the full flow of real prayer. So in Islam we all commit to providing for one another, to equal out those balances. It is that because of this process very very many of the early Muslims truly aspired to correcting the Human biological weakness which prevented them before from being equitably able as any Mystic or Holy teacher. That aspriation and the commitment it requires are a frightening thing to acquire certainty of, and Islam is enabling of that fear to be accepted. Islam must be acknowledged by Mystics and teachers of all Religions in this status. The companions of Mohammed ought to by right all be given the same status as any Mystic of Judaic ancestry.

I hope that Laith Al-Doory can recognise now what is real of the difference Islam holds in respect of the nature of the Mystery of Allah.

Alaykumuassalam
 
[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

With regard to the Hadith, it does indeed abrogate the Qur'an and provides stories and laws in addition to it. Stoning, for example is not mentioned in the Qur'an.

The intuitive faculty is not to be confused with the instinctive. The instinctive is defined by the past, the accumilation of past knowledge to form a personality. The intuitive is that which connects a person to God, a sense of absoltue knowing not based on past experience.
 
:sl:

[6:115] The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

With regard to the Hadith, it does indeed abrogate the Qur'an and provides stories and laws in addition to it. Stoning, for example is not mentioned in the Qur'an.

Eid is not mentioned in the Qur'an either. Looks like you won't be celebrating Eid with us.

The intuitive faculty is not to be confused with the instinctive. The instinctive is defined by the past, the accumilation of past knowledge to form a personality. The intuitive is that which connects a person to God, a sense of absoltue knowing not based on past experience.

The intuitive cannot be relied upon unless it is in complete accoradance with the Sharia and complete accordance with the Sharia only comes with knowledge of the Sharia, not based on dreams and visions that a so called 'mystic' may experience.
 
There are several schools of the Shariah. Which one could you be refering to?

You have missed the whole concept of an intuitive faculty. The Qur'an itself is a product of it. Mohammed's ability to receive the Qur'an makes him a mystic. Mysticism is the foundation of all religion. It is so-called 'Islamic fundamentalists' who wish to reduce Islam to a political dogma like communism.
 
I must be dumb since I only know of 4 madhahib not several (an unspecified number) :X :blind:

Edit:
4 madhahib not several but 1 Shariah( thanx to Br.al-Madani post for reminder)
 
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Politics? is that not to do with every day life? is Islaam not a complete way of life? where is the contradiction between Islaam and "politcal"?

Fundametalism? does that not mean the basics anymore?

God dang it! people keep changing dictionary definitions and I am always to slow to catch upand alway last to know :omg::-[:blind::X
 
Mysticism is the foundation of all religion. It is so-called 'Islamic fundamentalists' who wish to reduce Islam to a political dogma like communism.

Indeed. When people start to search for the truth themselves, and particularly if they start to find it, it becomes far more difficult to control what they think. To someone who has found God, the interpretations of those who have not become irrelevant.

As I understand it, not only did the authentic Sufi schools all insist that not only must their members be practicing muslims and fully accept and obey the Sharia, they actually believed it was essential to understanding Sufism. No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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:sl:

There are several schools of the Shariah. Which one could you be refering to?
Shariah itself is one, the schools of thought have nothing to do with what we are discussing. By Shariah I mean the Islamic laws. Why don't you clarify what you are trying to say?
You have missed the whole concept of an intuitive faculty. The Qur'an itself is a product of it. Mohammed's ability to receive the Qur'an makes him a mystic. Mysticism is the foundation of all religion.
Incorrect. Because that would imply that every 'mystic' is a Prophet due to your inverse comparison. But this entire belief is incorrect because we know from the authentic hadiths how the Wahi came to the Messenger.

It is so-called 'Islamic fundamentalists' who wish to reduce Islam to a political dogma like communism.
It's so easy to point fingers. Why don't you define what a 'fundamentalist' is and give examples of what they reduced Islam to?
 
An example of 'Islamic Fundamentalism' is the sectarian war now raging in Iraq. Political dogma is not the way forward.

The Shariah is not one and has been altered several times over the centures. The different schools of the Shariah interpret it very differently.

A mystic is not necessarily a prophet in the Qur'anic sense, but a prophet is most certainly a mystic, having the ability to divine the future.
 
An example of 'Islamic Fundamentalism' is the sectarian war now raging in Iraq. Political dogma is not the way forward.

Though I agree that there should not be a sectarian war, I don't believe that the reason for it is 'Islamic Fundamentalism'.

The Shariah is not one and has been altered several times over the centures. The different schools of the Shariah interpret it very differently.
Those are just schools of Jurisprudence. The principles and the purposes of the Sharia are the same regardless of what school of jurisprudence it is.

A mystic is not necessarily a prophet in the Qur'anic sense, but a prophet is most certainly a mystic, having the ability to divine the future.
Can you please give me a clear definition of a 'mystic', according to you, i.e. what you believe they can/cannot do?

And as for divining the future, then that is a matter of the Unseen. The knowledge of the Unseen is only with Allaah and the Messenger knows only as much as is revealed to him. He cannot know it of himself, much less the 'mystics'.
6: 50 Say: "I don't tell you that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor (that) I know the unseen; nor I tell you that I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me by inspiration..."

6:59 And with Him are the keys of the Unseen, none knows them but He..
 
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With regard to the Shariah, it is all very well to talk of principals, but in practice, there is no universality.

According to the Qur'an, everything is God's will, therefore, what ever a mystic sees is God's will. For a person to be so inspired, one must first have the tuning equipment, so to speak, to be able to pick up such information. Mohammed, like the other prophets in the Qur'an, was not by any means an ordinary person. A methodology for the development of such a faculty is contained in the Islamic way of living, something most religions reserve for the priesthood.
 
You know the impression I always get from mysticism? You know these toys for little kids? it's like a plank with different types of holes in it, a square hole, a trianglehole, a round hole, and so on, and then there's a whole bunch of blocks that only fit trough their respectively shaped holes.
Well the way I see mysticism is like: "look, here's a big giant hole where all of your blocks fit in!"

Mysticism's power lies in it's ambiguity. By not clearly defining what it's all about, it relies on people's imagination to answer the questions for themselves. When they put a small square block in the big hole, it relies on people to "Imagen" a smaller square hole inside the big hole and so on.

That Sufi's mixed this with Islam I find disturbing. Islam is perfect and has an answer to everything, so why why use the big, undefined hole to answer questiosn, when we already have neatly shaped holes to fit in all our blocks? It just adds confusion and opens the door to misinterpretation.
 
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You know the impression I always get from mysticism? You know these toys for little kids? it's like a plank with different types of holes in it, a square hole, a trianglehole, a round hole, and so on, and then there's a whole bunch of blocks that only fit trough their respectively shaped holes.
Well the way I see mysticism is like: "look, here's a big giant hole where all of your blocks fit in!"

Mysticism's power lies in it's ambiguity. By not clearly defining what it's all about, it relies on people's imagination to answer the questions for themselves. When they put a small square block in the big hole, it relies on people to "Imagen" a smaller square hole inside the big hole and so on.

That Sufi's mixed this with Islam I find disturbing. Islam is perfect and has an answer to everything, so why why use the big, undefined hole to answer questiosn, when we already have neatly shaped holes to fit in all our blocks? It just adds confusion and opens the door to misinterpretation.

Salamalaykum Abdul Fattah

You make a very good point here.

Any of us whom have discovered any residual worth in any of the world's older Religious traditions; a worth that might still be presenting itself as though of an intangible mysterious nature; must be enabled to present what we have found of any real worth in Islam, in a demystified fashion.

If any worth exists in any of the traditions which are presented in the "mystery" so named in the old testament, for example, then what defines it as sustaining worth is that it can also be scientifically explained within the context of Islam.

In fact every tradition which any person might describe as of a mysterious nature, has not possibility of worth unless it can also be described scientifically.

But even as Muslims we all know that certain facts of the science of nature in Allah need careful mental preparation. So perhaps that is what has previously been defined as mysterious, those facts which can not be known until other facts are fully mentally assimilated.

However because so much abuse has been worked by naming factual scientific data as unavailable to whom needs it, by those whom stole of Islamic worth and then began fencing off portions of the full teaching of Islam, as though only accessible to themselves - but when they could not comprehend what they were accessing: we are left unable to trust any matter which is presented only in mystery.

But was not that always the case? That to believe and trust in any tradition which has a mysterious heritage, we must be able to go through a safe process of mentally de-mystifying what the real nature is.

That is to say: if any body is at all attracted to any mystery, do not touch it until the right shape hole for the right shape piece has become apparent!

Salamalaykum
 
ASSALAMUALAIKUM
brother no name 55 number
re-incarnation is lie and this lie cannot harm islam because we have AL QURAN and SUNNAH to refute every fabrication
but your harsh and stupid comments about pakistani and hindustani muslims can divide the ummah and harm our unity
 
Just a little food for thought.

Mysticism is propably called mysticism because we do not understand it. If we understand it, it probably isn't a mystery and therefore not mysticism.

We are probably wasting our time and offending each other just to come to the conclusion that we do not know and really have no need for concern.
 
Sufis belive in reincarnation!? Whoho then they are further away from mainstream islam than even bahais!:D
:sl:
They way I understand it, there are two types of Sufism. One type is an important part of Orthodox Islam, and does not entail any unislamic doctrines like reincarnation. It is simply a spiritual practice to increase one's love for Allah and his Prophet (peace be upon him). The other type is 'philosophical sufism', a phenomenon probably caused by the mixing of ancient Greek and Hindu philosophies with Islam. This form of Sufism believes in various things which are not accepted by mainsteam Islam, including reincarnation.
:w:
 
I hope I can say this without offending anybody but to me mysticism is the very heart of religion.

Symbols (words) and associated mental constructs are simply inadequate to explain the concepts - direct experience of the proverbial IT - with with mysticism deals. Any written/spoken source, from wherever it comes, is merely the 'dumbed down' version for those incapable of, or unwilling to strive for the mystical experience.
 
Salamualaykum

I agree with both these posts, and thanks to who provided.

:sl:
They way I understand it, there are two types of Sufism. One type is an important part of Orthodox Islam, and does not entail any unislamic doctrines like reincarnation. It is simply a spiritual practice to increase one's love for Allah and his Prophet (peace be upon him). The other type is 'philosophical sufism', a phenomenon probably caused by the mixing of ancient Greek and Hindu philosophies with Islam. This form of Sufism believes in various things which are not accepted by mainsteam Islam, including reincarnation.
:w:

Is there any evidence of the "philosophical sufism" (which is that form prevalent in 'the west' as the form of sufism associated with the name "Sufi"), being connected through Indigenous and aboriginal people of the middle east with the Buddhist Tradition in places like Afghanistan, (that is older than the Tibetean Buddhist tradition holds records)?

I hope I can say this without offending anybody but to me mysticism is the very heart of religion.

Symbols (words) and associated mental constructs are simply inadequate to explain the concepts - direct experience of the proverbial IT - with with mysticism deals. Any written/spoken source, from wherever it comes, is merely the 'dumbed down' version for those incapable of, or unwilling to strive for the mystical experience.

This is the solid fact. To need to express Religious belief in words, can only "dumb down" the full teaching.

That is why anybody bothers to argue at all on the part of Mysticism.

Woodrow wrote that we only fail to understand, and that is what labels the mysterious a mystery.

But think of this:

For one man he knows, but fails to understand, while for another man he understands, but has no knowledge of the way of expression of what he understands. Both become taken with the mystery.

It is the same mystery as is the mystery of nature.

Salam
 
Sufis belive in reincarnation!? Whoho then they are further away from mainstream islam than even bahais!:D

The Sufi I know is closer to Islam than Bahai, and I am surprised to find Bahai being named in any association with Islam.

Could you state why that can be?
 

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