What is the importance of the quran not being corrupted and..

[vpb]

me, it just puzzles, if, 'someone' claim to be a god, why it took then 23 years to finish the quaran???
Supposed to be, 'he' would have finished that within a second, IF he's a god?

I don't get that !

well, if it would have been revealed during the night the whole Qur'an, I wonder how hard would it be for people to memorize it.

Would you be able to understand the whole book if your teacher teaches you the whole book in one day??
Of course not.

So ppl had a lot of time to memorize Qur'an by heart. That's why millions of people memorized the whole Qur'an. Also there is a reason for every verse that is revealed in the Qur'an, which helps scholars comment the Qur'an based on that. for ex. Ibn Abbas or Ibn Mas'ood (not sure which one), knew every single reason for every single ayat why it was sent, where and when. and we know today every single detail about the verses. there are millions of good things that we get as a result of Qur'an sent not in one night.

 

[vpb]

I will put the argument to you as Allah has in a number of verses in the quran, the following being one of them: "And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a surah (chapter) of the like thereof, and call your witness beside Allah if ye are truthful. (Translation 2:23)
?huh? what does this qoute mean? see if you can make a better one?

You are just ignoring the posts that we are making, and keep insisting with these things.

I gave u above couple of links and seems u didn't even bother to check them. Is that how are you trying to understand the answer of the question of this thread???

but I'll post the link again.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Miracle/ijaz.html

Do what? corrupt the quran? I doubt few would intentionaly do that. But look at the bible. those same god fearing people have apparently done the same. You also seem to be forgetting that what you have is the current version of the quran. What was it like before it was in book form?

http://www.islam101.com/quran/source_quran.html
http://www.islam101.com/quran/preservedQ.htm

again u didn't bother to read these links I provided u in my last post.

 

[Zulkiflim]

So i know you have an original quran, but what about these scribings?
Who was there to verify they were written correctly?
2. this has to do with once it was in book form correct?
3. same here correct?

Salaam,

What do you mean scribing?

Do you mean who checked the scribes?
Simple,the thousand and thousand of people who memeorized and would correct the scribes if they are wrong.

Also the writing are checked every ramadhan as the Prophet Muhamamd saw recited the entire quran from memory.
Alhamdulilah,many people of the muslim Ummah have memorized the quran for 1400 years and it is the same then and now.

I do not get what you are trying to say in point 2 and 3..

pls elaborate

 

[ranma1/2]

Salaam,

What do you mean scribing?

Do you mean who checked the scribes?
Simple,the thousand and thousand of people who memeorized and would correct the scribes if they are wrong.

Also the writing are checked every ramadhan as the Prophet Muhamamd saw recited the entire quran from memory.
Alhamdulilah,many people of the muslim Ummah have memorized the quran for 1400 years and it is the same then and now.

I do not get what you are trying to say in point 2 and 3..

pls elaborate

Scribes, or those that wrote down what mohamad said. So unless these 1000s were psychic they wouldnt know what was written untill after the fact.

 

[Zulkiflim]

Scribes, or those that wrote down what mohamad said. So unless these 1000s were psychic they wouldnt know what was written untill after the fact.

Salaam,

I have no idea what you are talking about..pls elaborate..

Psyhics?

Again i tell you that when ever the verses came down..

Prophet Muhammad saw would recite it.
It will be memorized by all who heard it.
And scribes would write it.
And people who memorize it will know it well due to high usage of verses during the 5 compulsory prayers.
Propeht Muhammad saw would recite the entire Quran as is,on ramadhan.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Heck this happens in islam. How many fanatics do you have? how many sects? Or are they not just true islams? Why do others not agree with the quran? It seems to do just the above.
i do not deny that there is sectarianism, or that Muslims have split into groups, etc. what my point is that that the quran has remained unchanged for centuries. it is the people that have differed from it, and decided not to follow it, as opposed to it changing, which is something completely different. just because people have differed, doesn't mean the quran has. The two scenarios are poles apart. it could be a misunderstanding of the quran by the people, etc. thats beyond the point however. The point is that the quran has remained unchanged for centuries, which proves that it is revealed by God, because if it hadn't been, than you would find it having different versions, which is what Allah has stated in the following verse: "“Do they not reflect upon the Quran? Were it from anyone other than Allah they would have found many inconsistencies therein.” (translation, 4:82) which of course there aren't any. I will go back to my argument of the bible.

?huh? what does this qoute mean? see if you can make a better one? Well for that i woudl recommend looking at the Book of the GFSM and check out his 10 i rather you didnts...
the book of what??

how did i insult them? by doubting them or the story?
Yes, thats exactly how you insulted them. Because they weren’t even like that. i sure you would despise being accused of something abhorrent that you know you didn't commit. I'm sure you would find it offense and insulting, would you not??

such as?
such the pathetic and baseless ones you keep on digging up.

Do what? corrupt the quran? I doubt few would intentionaly do that. But look at the bible. those same god fearing people have apparently done the same. You also seem to be forgetting that what you have is the current version of the quran. What was it like before it was in book form?

no no, the bible is a quite different story. you have people intentionally changing it, without forgetfulness, etc. just look at the hundreds of versions of it. there is no way that was done unintentionally, if it was really the truth, it wouldn't have even been changed.
And no, your're the one that seems to state things, and out ofignorance, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. the quran which you see among the Muslims is a copy, as opposed to a version (they are two completely different things) of what they had back in those days.

Which verse? Sorry to many threads.
...
these one for example: "Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!"
(tansltion 23:12-15)

My problem is that your evidenec is the quran. Nothing else.[/QUOTE]

Exactly my point. You cant accept the quran as being the truth, so you come up with arguments, making it look like there is something wrong with the quran, rather than yourself.

 

[ranma1/2]

....what my point is that that the quran has remained unchanged for centuries.
and yet it being "uncorrupted" has not prevented confusion.

.... The point is that the quran has remained unchanged for centuries, which proves that it is revealed by God, because if it hadn't been, than you would find it having different versions,
No all that may prove is that it hasnt changed. It has been up to muslims only to keep it as. Very strict procedures. All done my humans. Now if you did not memorize it do you think it would still have stayed the same? Doubtfully. All this shows is humans have tried as hard as possible to keep it the same once it was in written form.


which is what Allah has stated in the following verse: "“Do they not reflect upon the Quran?
What do you mean by this? Do you not have to have scholars tell you what the quran means?


Were it from anyone other than Allah they would have found many inconsistencies therein.” (translation, 4:82) which of course there aren't any.

As it is you have many inconsistencies on what particular words mean. Sure the word may be written down but there is much disagreement on what they mean. "one reason why you have the predictions is you have a variety of words to use."




the book of what??
The great flying spageti monster.
http://www.venganza.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gospel_of_the_Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

how did i insult them? by doubting them or the story?
Yes, thats exactly how you insulted them. Because they weren’t even like that. i sure you would despise being accused of something abhorrent that you know you didn't commit. I'm sure you would find it offense and insulting, would you not??f

So its an insult to doubt. Well that settles that. ^_^!
So what was abhorrent? forgive me the posts was a while ago. It would be nice to have them here to give actual witness but alas all we have is the quran and stories.


Do what? corrupt the quran? I doubt few would intentionaly do that. But look at the bible. those same god fearing people have apparently done the same. You also seem to be forgetting that what you have is the current version of the quran. What was it like before it was in book form?

no no, the bible is a quite different story. you have people intentionally changing it, without forgetfulness, etc. just look at the hundreds of versions of it. there is no way that was done unintentionally, if it was really the truth, it wouldn't have even been changed.
It could easily have been changed. The main difference is that the regulations were not in place. There was a greater amount of illiteracy and very few people at the time new what the bible said. Muslims however made it apoint ot have everyone know and memorize.

...

...

these one for example: "Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!"
(translation 23:12-15)

we are not made from clay. and i think trumble already addressed the rest of this. This idea was known at the time and is incorrect. We are also made from a sperm "not a drop" and an egg. I dont think ill go on but this has been disproven as anything special.


My problem is that your evidenec is the quran. Nothing else.
Exactly my point. You cant accept the quran as being the truth, so you come up with arguments, making it look like there is something wrong with the quran, rather than yourself.

See that shows the difference. I need evidence you dont. You are essentially saying is dont think. I need more evidence than a book that says it is evidence for god cause it says so. Not to mention i have never seen anything special inthe book that you claim is there.

Back to the original point of the thread.
You think the lack of corruption is evidence for gods hand right.
What did god do to prevent its corruption? everything i have seen is just man preventing it. Nothing more. And even if the words have not changed the meaning "the important part" is different for everyone. You have sects that see if differently than you do etc....Surely god could at the very least make sure the meaning does not change and is understood by all.

 

[- Qatada -]

....what my point is that that the quran has remained unchanged for centuries.
and yet it being "uncorrupted" has not prevented confusion.

The Messenger of Allaah/God, Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:

"I counsel you to have Taqwaa (God consciessness) of Allaah and to hear and obey, even if an Abyssinian [Ethiopian] slave were to command you. For, verily, whoever amongst you lives (to grown old), he will see many differences.

So stick to my Sunnah [path/guidance] and the Sunnah of the rightly guided khaleefahs. Cling tightly onto it and hold onto it with your molar teeth. And beware of newly invented matters. For, indeed, every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is a thing that leads astray, and everything that leads astray is in the Hellfire."

[Authentically Recorded in Abu Dawud]


​

Therefore the praise is for Allaah/God that He actually preserved the religion for us, and even if someone was to take things out of context - we could always refer to the authentic teachings of the Messenger of Allaah, and the direct recipients of the message - his companions.


Those who take it out of context can easily be refuted, because all we need to do is link them to the authentic teachings of the Prophet and his companions. This is where the confusion ends.

.... The point is that the quran has remained unchanged for centuries, which proves that it is revealed by God, because if it hadn't been, than you would find it having different versions,
No all that may prove is that it hasnt changed. It has been up to muslims only to keep it as. Very strict procedures. All done my humans. Now if you did not memorize it do you think it would still have stayed the same? Doubtfully. All this shows is humans have tried as hard as possible to keep it the same once it was in written form.

Did you know that the Christians tried to 'preserve' their texts but weren't able to authentically? The Catholics and the Protestants have different bibles, we as Muslims - no matter what group have one qur'an! Without any alterations, word by word, vowel by vowel! Allaah preserved the Qur'an for us, and yes - He preserved it through humans, how else would we know it's preserved?

which is what Allah has stated in the following verse: "“Do they not reflect upon the Quran?
What do you mean by this? Do you not have to have scholars tell you what the quran means?

Do you know the difference between the definition of reflect and meaning?


Reflect means to ponder over it's teachings, reflect on the narratives. The meaning of the laws are for the knowledgable, so you may reflect over a piece of work - yet you leave it upto the knowledgable of that field to teach it in the correct manner.

Were it from anyone other than Allah they would have found many inconsistencies therein.” (translation, 4:82) which of course there aren't any.

As it is you have many inconsistencies on what particular words mean. Sure the word may be written down but there is much disagreement on what they mean. "one reason why you have the predictions is you have a variety of words to use."

No there isn't, and here - this is an authentic link which has the interpretation of the verses according to the understanding of the companions of the Messenger of Allaah;


http://tafsir.com

It could easily have been changed. The main difference is that the regulations were not in place. There was a greater amount of illiteracy and very few people at the time new what the bible said. Muslims however made it apoint ot have everyone know and memorize.

Good, agreed.

these one for example: "Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!"
(translation 23:12-15)

we are not made from clay. and i think trumble already addressed the rest of this. This idea was known at the time and is incorrect. We are also made from a sperm "not a drop" and an egg. I dont think ill go on but this has been disproven as anything special.

The original creation of Adam pbuh was from the dust of the earth.

30:20 Among His Signs is this, that He created you from dust; and then,- behold, ye are men scattered (far and wide)!

This dust was then mixed with water to produce what is mentioned in the following verse:
15:26 And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud [min hama’in masnoon]

An interesting commentary on these verses has been provided here:
http://harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p1_08.php#1

Sheikh Muhammad Mutwalli Ash-Sha`rawi also comments:

If we take dust and add water to it, it will be mud. If it is left for some time, it will turn into clay. These are simply the stages of the creation of man. Man thus comes from dust, turned into clay after the addition of water. If we scrutinize this issue, we will find out that man, in his daily life, needs earth and depends on it in so many aspects. It is this earthy soil where we grow the plants upon which we live. Thus, preserving the materials of man depends on the source from which these materials are created.


Scientists have analyzed the human body and found that it is composed of 16 substances including oxygen and manganese. These elements are no more than the elements of the earth?s crust. This experiment was not meant for proving the credibility of the Qur'an; rather, it was solely for scientific research purposes.


In addition, death itself serves as a proof of creation. When we try to demolish a building, we follow the reverse order of building it; we start with the last floor. By the same token, since we have not eye-witnessed the creation of man, then we shall see how death occurs. Actually, we witness several deaths everyday. When man dies, his soul leaves his body, then the decline starts; his body becomes dry (which is similar to the stage of clay) and then decays and turns finally into dust which was his original substance. Life is given to man through the soul that is blown into his body. When the soul departs, man dies and starts his way back to his original form going through the stages of his first creation. Thus, death stands as a living proof for creation (SOURCE)​

21:30...We made of water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
This verse explains that all living things are composed of water.

Dr. Zakir Naik has commented on the above verse by saying:

Only after advances have been made in science, do we now know that cytoplasm, the basic substance of the cell is made up of 80% water. Modern research has also revealed that most organisms consist of 50% to 90% water and that every living entity requires water for its existence. Was it possible 14 centuries ago for any human-being to guess that every living being was made of water? Moreover would such a guess be conceivable by a human being in the deserts of Arabia where there has always been scarcity of water? (SOURCE)​

The following link also comments on this:
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_58.html​

About the 'drop' - did you know that the sperm is within semen? Did you know that sperm when emitted comes out in a liquid form? This is then a drop, which has sperm within it.

"was he not a drop or part of germinal fluid (Mani) emitted or programmed" (Surah Al- Qiyama, Ayah 37)

Here "Mani" means male or female germinal fluid (Ref: 1D, 5/276: 5D, 10/348:2D, 6/2497).

The Prophet's Hadith confirms the fact that the offspring is created from part of the germinal fluids.

"Not from all the fluid is the offspring created"

(Sahih. Muslim: Kitab Al-Nekah, Bab Al-Azl)

It is also known that not all parts of the ejaculate are equally potent in the fertilisation process. "In the first portion of the ejaculate are the spermatozoa, epididymal fluids, and the secretions from the Cowper and prostate gland fluids. In the last portions of the ejaculate are the secretions of the seminal vesicles. Most spermatozoa appear in the first part of the ejaculate, which is made primarily of prostatic secretions. Thus spermatozoa in the initial portion of the ejaculate have better motility and survival than those in the later portions, which are chiefly vesicular in origin". (SOURCE)


http://www.islamicboard.com/19777-post15.html
​

See that shows the difference. I need evidence you dont. You are essentially saying is dont think. I need more evidence than a book that says it is evidence for god cause it says so. Not to mention i have never seen anything special inthe book that you claim is there.

And you've ever read it? Don't make claims when you havn't even read the book.

Back to the original point of the thread.
You think the lack of corruption is evidence for gods hand right.
What did god do to prevent its corruption? everything i have seen is just man preventing it.

And we've had countless of examples in history which havn't been preserved, letter for letter, vowel for vowel. Yet the Qur'an has. How can a book be preserved except through men? Did you think something would be preserved by other than that? If so - how would it be preserved if none knew it in it's original form?

Nothing more. And even if the words have not changed the meaning "the important part" is different for everyone.

You have sects that see if differently than you do etc....Surely god could at the very least make sure the meaning does not change and is understood by all.

That's why i've given you this link;

http://tafsir.com


Allaah has preserved the religion and it's authentic teachings for us, then it is upto us on whether we want to follow the true authentic preserved teachings, or if we want to take things out of context and purposelly go astray from the correct path.







Regards.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

....what my point is that that the quran has remained unchanged for centuries.
and yet it being "uncorrupted" has not prevented confusion.

.... The point is that the quran has remained unchanged for centuries, which proves that it is revealed by God, because if it hadn't been, than you would find it having different versions,
No all that may prove is that it hasnt changed. It has been up to muslims only to keep it as. Very strict procedures. All done my humans. Now if you did not memorize it do you think it would still have stayed the same? Doubtfully. All this shows is humans have tried as hard as possible to keep it the same once it was in written form.


which is what Allah has stated in the following verse: "“Do they not reflect upon the Quran?
What do you mean by this? Do you not have to have scholars tell you what the quran means?


Were it from anyone other than Allah they would have found many inconsistencies therein.” (translation, 4:82) which of course there aren't any.

As it is you have many inconsistencies on what particular words mean. Sure the word may be written down but there is much disagreement on what they mean. "one reason why you have the predictions is you have a variety of words to use."




the book of what??
The great flying spageti monster.
http://www.venganza.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gospel_of_the_Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

how did i insult them? by doubting them or the story?
Yes, thats exactly how you insulted them. Because they weren’t even like that. i sure you would despise being accused of something abhorrent that you know you didn't commit. I'm sure you would find it offense and insulting, would you not??f

So its an insult to doubt. Well that settles that. ^_^!
So what was abhorrent? forgive me the posts was a while ago. It would be nice to have them here to give actual witness but alas all we have is the quran and stories.


Do what? corrupt the quran? I doubt few would intentionaly do that. But look at the bible. those same god fearing people have apparently done the same. You also seem to be forgetting that what you have is the current version of the quran. What was it like before it was in book form?

no no, the bible is a quite different story. you have people intentionally changing it, without forgetfulness, etc. just look at the hundreds of versions of it. there is no way that was done unintentionally, if it was really the truth, it wouldn't have even been changed.
It could easily have been changed. The main difference is that the regulations were not in place. There was a greater amount of illiteracy and very few people at the time new what the bible said. Muslims however made it apoint ot have everyone know and memorize.

...

...

these one for example: "Man We did create from a quintessence (of clay); Then We placed him as (a drop of) sperm in a place of rest, firmly Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!"
(translation 23:12-15)

we are not made from clay. and i think trumble already addressed the rest of this. This idea was known at the time and is incorrect. We are also made from a sperm "not a drop" and an egg. I dont think ill go on but this has been disproven as anything special.


My problem is that your evidenec is the quran. Nothing else.
Exactly my point. You cant accept the quran as being the truth, so you come up with arguments, making it look like there is something wrong with the quran, rather than yourself.

See that shows the difference. I need evidence you dont. You are essentially saying is dont think. I need more evidence than a book that says it is evidence for god cause it says so. Not to mention i have never seen anything special inthe book that you claim is there.

Back to the original point of the thread.
You think the lack of corruption is evidence for gods hand right.
What did god do to prevent its corruption? everything i have seen is just man preventing it. Nothing more. And even if the words have not changed the meaning "the important part" is different for everyone. You have sects that see if differently than you do etc....Surely god could at the very least make sure the meaning does not change and is understood by all.

and yet it being "uncorrupted" has not prevented confusion.
What?? What's that got to do with corruption?? Do you really expect for people to understand everything. Religion wise or not? No offence, but really take a reality check already!! And even when/if they do understand the Quran, it doesn’t guarantee that they are gonna adhere to it. It goes to show that the people are backwards, not the quran!! Two different things. It has nothing to do with the quran being so called corrupted, if people choose not to adhere to it.
And as for it causing confusion, this could just mean that the scholars who interpret the quran have more knowledge than others. For example some may be more advanced in Arabic than others (to have a strong background in Arabic is sometimes necessary when interrupting the quran) Therefore, they will come to different conclusions/opinions about certain things because some have had certain information reach them, whereas others haven't, therefore further causing a difference in opinion. Nothing to do with the corruption or so called corruption of the Quran.

No all that may prove is that it hasnt changed. It has been up to muslims only to keep it as. Very strict procedures. All done my humans. Now if you did not memorize it do you think it would still have stayed the same? Doubtfully. All this shows is humans have tried as hard as possible to keep it the same once it was in written form.
Well no, because that would be contradicting this verse: "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." (translation 15:9). Where do you get the idea that only Muslims/man has preserved it??
And yes I do think it would have stayed the same. I doubt that humans could have for 1400 years preseverd something by memory, religious script or not.
I also add in here brother Qatada's quote. "Allaah preserved the Qur'an for us, and yes - He preserved it through humans, how else would we know it's preserved?"

What do you mean by this? Do you not have to have scholars tell you what the quran means?
I also refer here to brother Qatada's point in regards to this question.

As it is you have many inconsistencies on what particular words mean. Sure the word may be written down but there is much disagreement on what they mean. "one reason why you have the predictions is you have a variety of words to use."
Says who, and where. Give an example please??

The great flying spageti monster.
http://www.venganza.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gos...ghetti_Monster
Well I researched this, and all I found was that some people believe that the creator is really some spaghetti monster. Just tell me; what/where would this "God" be if spaghetti wasn't invented?? If I wanted to, I could eat him. If he really was "God" he would have protected himself form that.


So its an insult to doubt. Well that settles that. ^_^!
So what was abhorrent? forgive me the posts was a while ago. It would be nice to have them here to give actual witness but alas all we have is the quran and stories.
In this case, yes because you are accusing someone of doing something which they wouldn't do. That’s pretty offensive. It's like accusing someone of murder, or stealing. In this case, it's worse.
No offense, but Even if they were here, you would still come up with unheard of arguments. You have the quran among you, and you still dispute with it.

It could easily have been changed. The main difference is that the regulations were not in place. There was a greater amount of illiteracy and very few people at the time new what the bible said. Muslims however made it apoint ot have everyone know and memorize.
For arguments sake, if your claim is true, in that the reason why the quran has remained uncorrupted because muslims have memeorized, etc, forgetfulness is something easily achieved, especially 1400 years down the track, and therefore easily corrupted. If by muslims memorizing it, and therefore that’s how it hasn't been changed, than someone or a lot of someone's aught to have forgotten it, or forgotten parts of it. But they didn't, because of what allah has revealed: "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)." (transltion 15:9)

we are not made from clay. and i think trumble already addressed the rest of this. This idea was known at the time and is incorrect. We are also made from a sperm "not a drop" and an egg. I dont think ill go on but this has been disproven as anything special.
Yes we are made from clay. How do you think we disintegrate when buried? If you are to ever learn chemistry, one of the first things that they teach you is that like dissolves like. The reason why sugar dissolves in water is because it has the same properties as water. Whereas the reason why oil is unable to dissolve in water, is because it has differing properties. Now the reason why humans are able to be disintegrated by soil is because they have the same properties.
I also refer to Qatada rely here again, especially this one: "About the 'drop' - did you know that the sperm is within semen? Did you know that sperm when emitted comes out in a liquid form? This is then a drop, which has sperm within it."

See that shows the difference. I need evidence you dont. You are essentially saying is dont think. I need more evidence than a book that says it is evidence for god cause it says so. Not to mention i have never seen anything special inthe book that you claim is there.
No, im not at all saying don't think. By all means, do, ask around. What im saying is that there is such thing as thinking and asking too much. There are limits to everything. And that’s what im against. Over doing things. Trust me; speaking generally, you are never going to get what you want. You are going to keep on coming up with things/opinions, until you are exhausted out of answers, and you will still not be satisfied, and therefore give up all together.
You said it yourself: "i have never seen anything special in the book that you claim is there." Yes, that’s you. It doesn’t mean that it doesn't exist though. Many other people see it.

Back to the original point of the thread.
You think the lack of corruption is evidence for gods hand right.
What did god do to prevent its corruption? everything i have seen is just man preventing it. Nothing more. And even if the words have not changed the meaning "the important part" is different for everyone. You have sects that see if differently than you do etc....Surely god could at the very least make sure the meaning does not change and is understood by all.

That’s the thing, it about what you see. How could man live without the aid of God? Human beings get things wrong. It's normal.
The meaning doesn't change, people misinterpret things. Maybe the reason why people don’t understand it is because they don’t have the right mentality for it, yet. And that is something God alone knows, that they aren't yet ready to receive it. In not saying that that is definitely the case, im just trying give you an open mind. You can't teach a baby to start reading at 1 month. Its brain hasn't developed properly yet, to receive that type of thing. Whats the point, it won't even understand. Understanding the quran needs time. You can't do it in all one go.
I again refer to Qatadas quote here.

 

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Question for you ranma,,do you now accept that the Quran s Unchaged?

 

[ranma1/2]

Salaam,

Question for you ranma,,do you now accept that the Quran s Unchaged?

I believe it is difficult to determine wether it is unchanged or not from its original form. I do believe that there is one version that is identical to a form of the quran up to a certain point in the past once it was written.

As for the meaning being changed....
I think that has been pretty much impossible to prevent.

The fact that even native speakers of arabic have to have it "translated " into modern arabic speaks against the meaning remaining the same.
As mentioned earlier "perhaps in this thread" many are taught to memorize the quran even as children even if they may not know what it means.

 

[- Qatada -]

So the above is all assumption without any proofs? It's ironic since you yourself continuously ask for 'proof' or links, yet you expect us to fall upon and agree with that, yet you've got no proof for that whatsoever.

If you're really in doubt, then you need to refer to the link i gave you earlier;


http://tafsir.com




Regards.

 

[ranma1/2]

So the above is all assumption without any proofs? It's ironic since you yourself continuously ask for 'proof' or links, yet you expect us to fall upon and agree with that, yet you've got no proof for that whatsoever.

Regards.

so? you asked my opinon i gave it to you. Also i see no "proof" on your part either. You have given no evidence that any god has acted in keeping the quran uncorrupted. I admit that humans have tried their best to keep it in its original form. I have also pointed out that the meaning has not been left uncorrupted.

 

[جوري]

proof has been provided under this thread
http://www.islamicboard.com/refutat...n-has-been-altered-yaa-ayyuhaal-kafiroon.html
An opinion is only worth so much, when it is composed in its totality of hot air bubbles..
peace!

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

so? you asked my opinon i gave it to you. Also i see no "proof" on your part either. You have given no evidence that any god has acted in keeping the quran uncorrupted. I admit that humans have tried their best to keep it in its original form. I have also pointed out that the meaning has not been left uncorrupted.

yes he/we have, you choose not to accept it. big difference.

 

[MustafaMc]

so? you asked my opinon i gave it to you. Also i see no "proof" on your part either. You have given no evidence that any god has acted in keeping the quran uncorrupted. I admit that humans have tried their best to keep it in its original form. I have also pointed out that the meaning has not been left uncorrupted.

There has been no evidence demonstrated that even one letter of the Quran is not the same as the original Quran that was collated immediately after the death of Muhammad (saaws). We Muslims accepts on faith that this is the enduring miracle of the Quran for which we don't need proof. Neither have you have demonstrated that the meaning of the Quran has been corrupted. Over 1400 years time some words will not be in common usage anymore, and will need to be explained even to Arabic speakers. A tafsir or commentary is most beneficial to explain the meaning within the context of revelation.

 

[Zulkiflim]

I believe it is difficult to determine wether it is unchanged or not from its original form. I do believe that there is one version that is identical to a form of the quran up to a certain point in the past once it was written.

As for the meaning being changed....
I think that has been pretty much impossible to prevent.

The fact that even native speakers of arabic have to have it "translated " into modern arabic speaks against the meaning remaining the same.
As mentioned earlier "perhaps in this thread" many are taught to memorize the quran even as children even if they may not know what it means.

Salaam,

Interesting choice of words..

so in short you still have doubts but have no proof.


And for meaning to be chaged,
Perhaps you can tell me or us which meaning in the quran is changed?

When the Quran say GOD is ONE,,it remain as ONE.as an exaple..

As for language,hmm to say that i am a malay but even in the Malay race there are hundred of different laguages.
Same for chinese and so on.

So does it mena if i as a Malay am not able to speak another dialect that proves that MY dialect has warped?

As for memorizing the quran,it is best to also know what you are saying..
that is why arabic is taught in all masjids,,Alhamdulilah..

So dont jsut memorize but udnerstadning is equally important.
the best part is that we make use of it 5 times a day....thus the words and understadin g come easier and easier..

 

[ranma1/2]

yes he/we have, you choose not to accept it. big difference.

what? god did it?

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

im sorry, i don't understand what you mean. can you please clarify??

 

[khairullah]

Allah (swt) promised to protect the holy Quran from Corruption.

We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption)." [Al-Qur’an 15:9]

Even hostile critics of Islam have grudgingly vouched for the purity of the Holy Qur’ân: "THERE IS PROBABLY IN THE WORLD NO OTHER BOOK WHICH HAS REMAINED TWELVE CENTURIES (now fourteen) WITH SO PURE A TEXT." — (Sir William Muir)