what is wrong with war?

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syilla

syilla

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hello there...

There are so many claims in this board especially, that christians and the jews (i think) that go against the war?

Well...i know war is something we should try our best to avoid it.

But what if war is unavoidable, and you have to fight for justice. What's wrong with fighting with passion. Won't you fight with all your heart to protect your country, loves one, your property or especially your religion? Would you let your enemy to come and attack your loves one and doing all the disgusting stuffs?

What is someone wants to rape your loves one? Won't you even try a bit to risk your life?

Please tell me...what is wrong on fighting for justice?



Peace is not Submission

In such an event, we cannot say that because we are the advocates of peace, we are opposed to war. Such a thing would mean that we are advocates of misery; advocates of surrender. Make no mistake, peace and surrender are as different from each other as chalk and cheese. The meaning of peace is honorable coexistence with others, but surrender is not honorable coexistence; it is coexistence that on one side is absolutely dishonorable. In fact, it is a coexistence that is absolutely dishonorable on both sides. On one side, the dishonor is aggression, and on the other side, it is the dishonor of surrender in the face of zulm, in the face of injustice and oppression.

So this fallacy must be eradicated, and a person who declares himself opposed to war, saying that war is totally bad - be it injustice or be it defense and resistance in the face of injustice - has made a great mistake. War that means aggression must be
fully condemned while war that means standing up (qiyam) in the face of transgression is to be commended and necessary for human existence.​
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source
 
There are always some instances where violence cannot be avoided. Protecting one's family and loved ones is one of those circumstances. War for war's sake is wrong and violence for the sake of violence is something to avoid.
 
I'm not sure if there are some cases where violence is unavioidable. I'm still working this out. The "turn the other cheek thing," you know.
I don't know all the answers, but I know that conquering other countries or towns is wrong.
 
Well its a question of which is worse, participating in the war and killing soldiers and risking innocent civilians in crossfire or allowing whatever you are fighting to continue.

If somebody is on a killing spree, then it makes sense to stop them. Hitler was gassing lots and lots of people and was planning to conquer Europe and exterminate everybody that didn't match his eugenic plan (Jews were only one group amongst many being exterminated though they get all the recognition now). That was a war worth fighting and I greatly respect our veterans from the first and second world wars.

But pretty much every war that the western world has participated in since then has been more worthy of scorn than praise.
 
Pygoscelis said:
Well its a question of which is worse, participating in the war and killing soldiers and risking innocent civilians in crossfire or allowing whatever you are fighting to continue.

If somebody is on a killing spree, then it makes sense to stop them. Hitler was gassing lots and lots of people and was planning to conquer Europe and exterminate everybody that didn't match his eugenic plan (Jews were only one group amongst many being exterminated though they get all the recognition now). That was a war worth fighting and I greatly respect our veterans from the first and second world wars.

But pretty much every war that the western world has participated in since then has been more worthy of scorn than praise.
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I wouldn't call the First World War something to be proud of. It was probably the most senseless massacre in the history of mankind, one truly fought not for ideals, but power.

I sometimes think the intervention in Bosnia and in Korea were worth it. If you look at North Korea, one can only be grateful that those many tens of millions in the south do not have to suffer the same faith as their Northern brothers.

Afghanistan was also something that needed to happen IMHO.
 
:salamext:

nice topic and a very important one.

War should be done in accordance with the laws of Allah subhana wata'ala, right and wrong can only be truelly understood when you look at it from an islamic perspective. I know many of you will disagree to this (non-muslims), but islam is so perfect that we only ask the non-muslims to pay a share of their money to those in need, who can call this unjust? and if they refuse this then we fight them !
no this is not cold blooded, its cold that they are so greedy and gluttonous that they refuse to help out those in need. Also war is required when our religion is threatened, how can we be attacked and turn the other cheek, if we keep doing that then the powerful and corrupt will rule everything.

"for evil to prevail it takes the good people to do nothing! its the good people that must stand up for whats right ! and a form of standing up might be marching in war."
 
syilla said:
hello there...

There are so many claims in this board especially, that christians and the jews (i think) that go against the war?

Well...i know war is something we should try our best to avoid it.

But what if war is unavoidable, and you have to fight for justice. What's wrong with fighting with passion. Won't you fight with all your heart to protect your country, loves one, your property or especially your religion? Would you let your enemy to come and attack your loves one and doing all the disgusting stuffs?

What is someone wants to rape your loves one? Won't you even try a bit to risk your life?

Please tell me...what is wrong on fighting for justice?

fighting for justice is ok


War is a business .the graetest business on earth which make people become billionare in one day and others orphan in a second
Do these businessman care about u or money ????
War must be created to sell weapons ,a missile may cost one million dollar but your whole life all your familly has worked may have not reached one percent of that sum of money





source
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fighting for justice is ok


War is a business .the graetest business on earth which make people become billionare in one day and others orphan in a second
Do these businessman care about u or money ????
War must be created to sell weapons ,a missile may cost one million dollar but your whole life all your familly has worked may have not reached one percent of that sum of money

afghan fight russia to make america become the first power of this world without knowing that ,arabs invested a lot of money in this war and now america fights afghan for islamic reasons
in other words
we have done the ~~sale boulot des americains ``
 
brenton said:
I'm not sure if there are some cases where violence is unavioidable. I'm still working this out. The "turn the other cheek thing," you know.
I don't know all the answers, but I know that conquering other countries or towns is wrong.
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seems we have similar thoughts about it :)

So first of all "turn the other cheek", "love your enemies". God is asking us to bring peace and heal the world. I'm not sure if He allows us take different way
Secondly what is so important then life? You say "justice". what does it mean?
Protecting your family - i would agree. But what more?
Allowing using violence is like letting out all the worst demons with have in us. Even when the cause for war is "just", then people do such things that it has nothing to do with justice.
 
War= Evil
War= Money
War= Obssesion
War= Justice
War= Oil
War= Power
War= Dominance
War= .....I run out
 
Salaam,

Islam allow only defence in the face of aggresion.

FIGHT THEM AS THEY FIGHT YOU.

Muslim are not allowed to start wars.

THEY SAY PEACE<BUT NAY THEY ARE THE TROUBLEMAKERS>


So when you seek for peace,you must ask yourself,whose PEACE are you fighting for?

Your own,or for both?

In Islmaic context it is always for both,soldiers captured cannot be harmed,cannot be ridiculed.
is this in play now?

Western antion who talk about democracy and peace and love and what not,send their prisoner to muslim countries to extract information thru dubious means.


The western world would ask others to do what they know is wrong.
but muslim do what they have been ORDAINED TO BE HARAAM.

Both are in cahoots,one paying the other accepting under the guise of PEACE.

So if you fight,fight not to win but fight to stop both sides from harming each other more.

A hadith,2 men fought and in thier fight their blood lust soared and when the killing stroke were to come,it did not fall.
Why.,
Simple,the warrior remembered Allah,if he had killed it was for his own sake,inpure,unjust.
But in the end he remebered what he fought for and whose laws were to be upheld.

Do not kill when maiming is enough
Do not maim when capture is enough
Do not capture when surrender is given.

Simple and striaghtforward.

But the other part,,FIGHT AS THEY FIGHT YOU has corrupted the overzealous to be as SATAN IS.
 
Like it has been already stated, war is sometimes unavoidable. But that is a very rare instance. I hear & read people say that war is alright just as long as "it is justified". And that always makes me think, "justified" is too broad. Simply because what it justifiable to you may not be to me. War is never "right". Defending ones self is honrable & right, but going into war & killing another human being is NEVER right.
 
It's a very complicated question. If you make an argument that seems to suggest violence is justified in some circumstances, that sounds too vague and up to interpretation. However, there isn't any honorable person who would stand and do nothing if his loved ones were being directly threatened...but of course then you have to define what "threatened" means. There is no right answer...except that violence is bad.
 
JMF said:
Like it has been already stated, war is sometimes unavoidable. But that is a very rare instance. I hear & read people say that war is alright just as long as "it is justified". And that always makes me think, "justified" is too broad. Simply because what it justifiable to you may not be to me. War is never "right". Defending ones self is honrable & right, but going into war & killing another human being is NEVER right.
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Actually in islam...you hardly can start a war. Even if your country has unjust leader, you cannot ally with your enemy to overthrown the leader. UNLESS the leader stopped you from doing SALAH.

So please tell me what's wrong with Jihad (please read about Jihad before posting).

Maybe someone can post the rule according to islam on war.
 
duskiness said:
seems we have similar thoughts about it :)

So first of all "turn the other cheek", "love your enemies". God is asking us to bring peace and heal the world. I'm not sure if He allows us take different way
Secondly what is so important then life? You say "justice". what does it mean?
Protecting your family - i would agree. But what more?
Allowing using violence is like letting out all the worst demons with have in us. Even when the cause for war is "just", then people do such things that it has nothing to do with justice.
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I've been thinking about this all day today.
I don't know if it is right, but I would:
1. Defend my family
2. Defend the innocent in cases like Shoah (Nazi holocaust), the Armenian genocide, Bosnian genocide, etc.

So, I guess I'm a pragmatic pacifist, not one just on principle. I think God may call us to die in weakness, and we as Christians are called to live the principle of weakness in our lives, but as much as I admire the Mennonites, that isn't what I believe.
 
duskiness said:
seems we have similar thoughts about it :)


Secondly what is so important then life? You say "justice". what does it mean?
Protecting your family - i would agree. But what more?
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Protecting your family...in so many situation. Like you country being invaded. Your family and friends being tortured.

Justice in Islam is everything because of Allah subhanahuwata'ala. Everything is because of Him, not about politics or any other kind of reason other than that.
 

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