What should I do about a rape in past?

[genki]

And can somebody tell me what she can or should do about those revealing photos that other guy has?

And who is legally entitled to such photos in the US? Sure they were together then but she doesnt want him to have any of them and is ashamed of it all. Would she have a right to tell him to remove them etc? Could she force him in a court of law?

She had photos of him too but removed it all and wants him to do the same but says unless she is there to push him he isnt the type to be trusted and he might not bother.

 

[tigersabre]

And your wife had obviously waited for you too right? How would you have felt if she hadnt waited?

See thing is if the rape hadnt occured then the next guy might never have been there but her lifestyle was definately not right.

A dealbreaker for me has always been that I marry a virgin girl. I can look over drinking, partying, kisses etc but not being a virgin has always been a deal breaker. I have walked away from many.

Even in the other thread in the GENERAL section no body has responded which leads me to believe there are almost no virgin men who have or would marry a non-virgin girl. Sure maybe you were a virgin and your wife was a virgin and NOW you think its not a big deal but back then wasnt it a deal for you? Every man even the players I have met all admit that at their core they would much rather have a virgin as a wife.

Now I am faced with a situation from which I normally would have just walked away but now ....... I could walk away and easily marry a physically virgin girl
with no prior experience very quickly but...... . If I stay arent I compromising on a wish and dream I had all along? Arent I giving up on the prize or goal I sought?
How do you think YOU would have felt if when you had waited and was a virgin till marriage and your wife wasnt and had her fun. Then the most special things you held to your heart your virginity, chastity, naked body and your manhood unit was masterfully handled with no hesitation or anything and clearly with lots of skill? Now imagine you know EVERYTHING.

And if your saying its not a big deal then why did I wait? If its meaningless and not of importance and implies no special meaning to the person taking it. Why is it that even she tells me its important to her and gives her meaning?
Why is it that all muslim virgin men marry virgin brides? Very few accept non-virgin brides and especially not if she was a muslimah in the past too.

And yes because I CHOSE to be sexually inexperienced and rejected a ton of women and chose to keep to myself, I had meaning. I had always waited for a wife like me who also waited. Someone with whom I could join as 1 in both spirit and body for the very first time. Someone I could experience carnal pleasures with together for the first time and learn more and more with. Not somebody who has gone off practised around etc.

1 thing I wont do is drag her down. But I also fear If i were to leave it would cause her a lot of doubts eg Even after all the changes the most decent guy who had stood by me and taught me and loved me left me because I wasnt a virgin. My past will never go away so why fight it. Why change especially since its so hard. Might as well go back to who I used to be since maybe thats what I deserve etc etc etc

My wife is a convert, but she converted early and kept herself away from that type of behavior. I can tell you, however, that I never asked her about the issue because I did not care, and when she brought it up, I told her that whatever her past, it was not an issue for me because it simply was not a big deal.

You're worried about a woman who dated - what about a great woman who was widowed young? Or divorced? Regardless of the marital legitimacy, you and I both know she'll have known the company of another man, but here's the thing - her previous sexual life is not your business.

As for the other guys not wanting non-virgin wives, they have the same societal double-standards programmed into them that you do - a woman who sleeps around is a damaged goods ****, and a man who does it is just a young stud getting his groove on.

I'd suggest that if you're not man enough to handle a woman that's more experienced, then you ought to be honest with yourself and her, and rather than put her through more stress, you ought to end the relationship, and simply let her know that you're not secure enough with yourself, as you've elaborated on this thread, to deal with her past, nor are you strong enough.

If it were me, and I found that her deen and character were good to go, and our personalities and long term goals jived well together, I'd marry her without thinking twice about it. That's just me - not everyone is secure about themselves, or can handle not being perfect in everything.

As we're taught, Allah does not expect perfection from us, he expects us to STRIVE for Ihsaan - excellence.

 

[tigersabre]

And can somebody tell me what she can or should do about those revealing photos that other guy has?

And who is legally entitled to such photos in the US? Sure they were together then but she doesnt want him to have any of them and is ashamed of it all. Would she have a right to tell him to remove them etc? Could she force him in a court of law?

She had photos of him too but removed it all and wants him to do the same but says unless she is there to push him he isnt the type to be trusted and he might not bother.

She needs to go with her wali / guardian or a mahram (like her father) and go to the guy's home and collect the pictures herself. Waiting for others to do work for you that's not a priority on their list is probably not a good expectation.

 

[genki]

Akhi tigersabre:

Why do you choose to label and paint me with the same brush as others?

I have never been brought up nor saw ANY indication that its acceptable for a man to sleep around because that would make him a stud whereas its bad for a woman because itd make her a w..... I have only seen that in western culture and even then amongst bad people whether they be muslims or not

That isnt Islam what your describing and I myself have not seen that behaviour in the muslims I have been except the socalled muslim men who do anything yet still want a virgin wife. Those are bad muslims and give islam a bad name.

I not even for an instant think its okay for a man to sleep around and not for the woman. God gave us the same ruling. A man remains a virgin and so does a woman till they get married.

Your lucky that your lady had converted early. So she was still a virgin. So what if she dated around a little, kissed or drank. Those arent deal breakers to me. But it seems like your also not in my shoes either.

And its not really so much to do about insecurity as more to do with what I have ALWAYS wanted and why I fought temptations so hard. Had she been a virgin we would not have had any issues. At the very least had she not willingly chosen to jump into another guys bed I would not have had an issue because it was rape she didnt volunteer.

If the lady was married to me that would show she waited committed and married and thats marriage which god has allowed too.

Brother
Only she has converted. Shes ashamed of her past. And you think she could or ever would ask her dad to go to a guys house 10000+km to get back photos? He wouldnt do it because 1 he isnt a muslim and 2 wouldnt care and 3 wouldnt take the time out to do that and 4 shed have to explain exactly why.

So what other recourse has she got?

 

[Woodrow]

And can somebody tell me what she can or should do about those revealing photos that other guy has?

And who is legally entitled to such photos in the US? Sure they were together then but she doesnt want him to have any of them and is ashamed of it all. Would she have a right to tell him to remove them etc? Could she force him in a court of law?

She had photos of him too but removed it all and wants him to do the same but says unless she is there to push him he isnt the type to be trusted and he might not bother.

This is a problem. He may have made many copies of them and passed them out to all of his friends or even posted them on some web sites No matter how many he destroys or hands over to be destroyed, nobody will ever know if all of them were destroyed. A person very dear to me let a boy friend take some very stupid pictures of her when she was a teenager When she broke up with him she got the picture and destroyed them. But when she was over 50 years old those pictures resurfaced and came back to haunt her. Apparently the old boy friend gave some copies to friends and copies are still circulating. This is problem that has to be faced. no matter what is done there is a possibility copies may resurface someday Now is the time to begin preparing for how react if copies show up many years in the future.

 

[genki]

This is a problem. He may have made many copies of them and passed them out to all of his friends or even posted them on some web sites No matter how many he destroys or hands over to be destroyed, nobody will ever know if all of them were destroyed. A person very dear to me let a boy friend take some very stupid pictures of her when she was a teenager When she broke up with him she got the picture and destroyed them. But when she was over 50 years old those pictures resurfaced and came back to haunt her. Apparently the old boy friend gave some copies to friends and copies are still circulating. This is problem that has to be faced. no matter what is done there is a possibility copies may resurface someday Now is the time to begin preparing for how react if copies show up many years in the future.

I know brother and I had explained to her. Thats also why she is so haunted by it. And I explained to her nothing is gauranteed you took that chance repeatedly with a person you couldnt even trust and didnt see in your future and knew didnt have much decency what did you expect?

 

[genki]

Wallah Akhis this is weird.

Knowing that im going she says she cant remember the most important part. It was traumatic and she cant remember.

She cant remember if she said DONT or fought him or kicked him in the bedroom. She cant remember if she was PINNED or layed down voluntarily. All she remembers is she ran upstairs and that he told her relax relax when he was doing it.

And she said afterwards he drove her home. They chatted online briefly a few times. She saw him on campus. She went to his party. He had messaged her phone many times and called a few times.


Because she cant remember the most important part whether she kept refusing saying no stop etc or just layed down or if she was pushed or pinned down or gave in or anything else and her behaviour post said rape shes saying maybe it wasnt rape? it couldnt have been rape? I dont know. I wanted him to feel bad atleast a little and to care a little for what happened. I cant remember. I do remember running around and telling him not to take my clothes off and give it back etc and him chasing me but upstairs I dont remember. Even when she was with the other guy this guy still tried getting with her.

Now shes saying that I shouldnt even talk to the guy and see if he will admit he raped her because he was an asshole and slept around a lot and he probably cant remember or didnt think it was rape or maybe will never admit it.


Now shes saying she doesnt know if it was rape. She isnt sure. She cant remember what really counts. And that because of all that I shouldnt do anything and is now telling me NOT TO.


What should I do?

 

[genki]

Would this situation be considered rape;?

You go out for weeks. You go on date drink and make out past midnight at his place. He forcibly and by tickling you Takes your clothes off by force and you ask for it and i tickle you etc and not return it and chase you around. You run upstairs and find yourself trapped and you give in and voluntarily go to bed since your trapped but you never fought the guy or told him to stop or that he was going to rape you or even that you are a virgin?

How is the guy supposed to even know what hes doing is wrong? What if it ended conssenual (out of hopelessness and trapped) is that even rape? though she never told him anything?

then again she doesnt really remember but sounds like she wasnt just thrown down onto bed pinned down and raped whilst she refused told him no, dont rape me, etc or him laying a hand on her and all her clothes everything perfectly intact.

this is messed up

 

[tigersabre]

What may have happened was that because she was drunk, she may have initially resisted, and then later may not have resisted, whether because she didn't know what was happening, or because she didn't think of it as a big deal while in the moment while she was there. Afterwards, she may have felt regret because she was a virgin, and it was lost in this manner. So her own perception of the event may or may not be biased by her feelings of lost virginity.

From the guy's perspective, it could have been premeditated that he would do whatever he pleased, or it may have been that he thought it was consensual since she gave in and perhaps (or perhaps did not) resist.

As for my comments earlier, your statements in your posts about virginity and other men having been with her demonstrate you already have the conditioning in you, whether you like it or not. You may intellectually understand the difference, but emotionally, you do not. Emotional maturity would propel you past the virginity and you'd look at other factors (as mentioned, she's a new Muslim, that was her old life).

In the end, Allah subhaana wa ta'aala has forgiven her for her sins - don't make it your job to punish her by being insecure in your relationship as a result of her past.

As for myself, before marrying my wife, I had been seeing a woman for marriage who was divorced, who had been married for 5 months to a person who had emotionally abused her (not physically). I was ready to marry her, but her family eventually broke it off because we were unable to get my own family past the whole "damaged goods" mentality, so I'm all well and good with that.

As for the pictures, there's only so much you and she can do. You should make du'aa to Allah subhaana wa ta'aala about this situation, put your trust in Him, and what good happens will happen, and what does not, and is outside your circle of influence and control, leave alone.

 

[snakelegs]

genki,
since all this happened before she reverted - what difference does it make whether or not it was consensual?
i think you should end this relationship for the sake of both of you and find a virgin. because virginity (yours and hers) is such an important issue with you, you are not the person who can help her heal from her past experiences and move on with her life because you cannot put her past behind you.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs; I hope you are well,

i think you should end this relationship for the sake of both of you and find a virgin. because virginity (yours and hers) is such an important issue with you, you are not the person who can help her heal from her past experiences and move on with her life because you cannot put her past behind you.

I have to agree with you, unless the girl can be forgiven fully and totally then there is no point pursuing this relationship. What will happen is when there is an argument in a years, or five years or ten years time the past will be brought up and cause great anger.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our hearts.

Eric

 

[tigersabre]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs; I hope you are well,



I have to agree with you, unless the girl can be forgiven fully and totally then there is no point pursuing this relationship. What will happen is when there is an argument in a years, or five years or ten years time the past will be brought up and cause great anger.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our hearts.

Eric

And that's the funny thing - there's nothing here for anyone except God to forgive, and we believe He's already forgiven her

 

[genki]

She is saying she was trapped and felt scared and didnt know what to do. She saw no way out. Maybe she then gave in.

Surely if he had pinned her down or forced her onto her bed etc she would remember.


She says she wasnt ready and didnt want to and he forcibly took her clothes off but maybe she did give in because of hopelessness and not knowing what to do once cornered upstairs and that nothing would stop the guy.


Ultimately this isnt clear cut anymore. I dont feel right doing anything about it even though she wants him atleast beaten up for having forced her into that corner etc.

Her old lifestyle her habits everything and her choices led her down that path.


I wont do anything about it since its not clear cut anymore.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you genki; I am so sorry you are having to struggle with this injustice, but there is hope

There are three very clear and different things you have to come to terms with if this relationship is to have any hope of surviving, coping with injustice, anger and forgiveness.

Many injustices remain and are never settled in this life, as tigersabre has said we have to rely on Allah to put all things right in a greater life after death. If you continue to pursue something that you may never resolve it is going to eat away at you and destroy your inner peace with yourself and with God.

Anger after an injustice is a most destructive force and it eats away inside here is a powerful Buddhist analogy of anger.

It is like picking up a burning coal that never goes cold with the intention of throwing it at the person you are angry with. The person who is harmed the most is yourself. The longer you hold onto your anger the burn becomes hotter.

In Christianity anger is like heaping burning coals on your head.

Another analogy of anger is that it is like drinking poison, hoping the other person dies.

The most destructive force behind anger is that the person you are angry with controls your mind and emotions day and night, they own you.

Ghandi a Hindu wrote that forgiveness is not for the weak but for the strong.

There are ways to search for this inner strength.

In the spirit of praying for peace in our heart

Eric

 

[zena_a]

the past is the past. leave allah (azzawajal) to judge

 

[Md Mashud]

get a gay boy to rape him

thats what i believe the punishment should be and death

if you know who it is, pay him a visit then after you done your bit, report him to police

but bro if you dont know him, then it will be hard to find him

just remem Allah (swt) rewards you through hardship

may Allah swt, ease ya pain

LOL!

 

[genki]

That guy has no idea how lucky he is. Everything was set.

But since the story is so convulated, and so many possibilities exist and could haves, its very murky. I would hate myself to have judged and EXTREMELY punished somebody for life based on a convulated and confused telling only to find later that parts had been forgotten or that the guy may have been partly innocent or whatever. I have decided let Allah be the judge because EVEN she cant remember the most vital points and those points are what distinguish a rape from consenual act.

Ultimately she may have been coerced into it and felt hopeless and so consenually went to bed because she felt so hopeless that still isnt exactly rape now is it? Though in her mind she believes she was maybe raped because her clothes etc were taken off her and she wasnt ready. But in the guys mind the party girl may just have been playing hard to get, having a little fun chasing around and then finally getting to business.

If she had fought him even upstairs and he forcibly pinned her down or pushed her onto the bed or she kept protesting upstairs and saying no stop etc then thats clearly rape.


Let Allah Judge him. I dont want to be responsible for hurting somebody permanently and then to find out he wasnt at fault.

 

[YusufNoor]

That guy has no idea how lucky he is. Everything was set.

But since the story is so convulated, and so many possibilities exist and could haves, its very murky. I would hate myself to have judged and EXTREMELY punished somebody for life based on a convulated and confused telling only to find later that parts had been forgotten or that the guy may have been partly innocent or whatever. I have decided let Allah be the judge because EVEN she cant remember the most vital points and those points are what distinguish a rape from consenual act.

Ultimately she may have been coerced into it and felt hopeless and so consenually went to bed because she felt so hopeless that still isnt exactly rape now is it? Though in her mind she believes she was maybe raped because her clothes etc were taken off her and she wasnt ready. But in the guys mind the party girl may just have been playing hard to get, having a little fun chasing around and then finally getting to business.

If she had fought him even upstairs and he forcibly pinned her down or pushed her onto the bed or she kept protesting upstairs and saying no stop etc then thats clearly rape.


Let Allah Judge him. I dont want to be responsible for hurting somebody permanently and then to find out he wasnt at fault.

Greeting Akhi,

i can't figure out if you've moved on or not yet so i'll speak...

She has repeatedly stated she wants to get back at him. She wants him hurt and humiliated like she was. Her following choices were due mainly to what she went through because of him.

She would love to hire somebody to do it.

I see her breakapart because of what this sick .... did to her and her choices following it.

^^from that^^ brother, SHE is the one who is not ready for you or anybody else! SHE needs help and probably a really good Sister to help educate her on Islam. i'm 49, but only reverted last year and so i've heard stories like these before. she MAY have told you a worst case scenario just because you told her how much you wanted to marry a virgin. so she came up with an extreme story to tell you why she's not. that would actually be the BEST CASE scenario! once you knew the truth, you could just leave the whole topic. BUT if she were afraid to tell you the truth, you could possibly here this stuff FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE if you married her! sounds like a nightmare to me!

and NOW, the truth MAY be coming to light. don't worry Akhi. tigresabre can tell you if i'm wrong, but:

1) you've proposed, but not to her Walli...because from the sound of things she doesn't have one.

2) she'a accepted, but now you are not so sure.

3) you have the right to withdraw!

4) if you've agreed on a contractual price for the marriage, give her half of what you agreed on and withdraw!

5) IF you can swing it, pay her ALL of what you agreed on and withdraw!

you are well within your Islamic rights to do so. may lots of du'a for the sister to increase in knowlegde and fear of Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala and move on.

as for your other thread, my wife told me that she got up everyday BEFORE Fajr and prayed Tahajjud and read 1 Juz from the Qur'an! that's how i knew that i wanted to marry her!!!

 

[Hamas]

get a gay boy to rape him

thats what i believe the punishment should be and death

if you know who it is, pay him a visit then after you done your bit, report him to police

but bro if you dont know him, then it will be hard to find him

just remem Allah (swt) rewards you through hardship

may Allah swt, ease ya pain

Assalamu Alaikum brother chacha jalebi do you mean jalebi as in those sweets that look like spirals of orange? lol

I dont know the exact punishment for rape under the islamic law but i dont agree with your opinion. Get a gay boy to rape him? if you said get a girl to rape him that would be more appropriate. Why dont you go and do it then? since you were so quick to dish out the idea LOL and besides that rapist could be a gay himself so it might be pleasure for both of them rather than one punishing the other but seriously should we think its right to punish someone with a behaviour that is a punishable offence itself, that has been the cause of destruction and obliteration of entire nations before us, i may be wrong brother jalebi and if i learn that this is infact the punishment under the islamic law then i will apologize to you and accept it. I hope you havnt taken any offence brother jalebi because i didnt mean any.

Brother genki it is of cousre tragic and unfortunate what happened to your fionce but its done now you cant change it. If the sister was forced and raped then Allah has forgiven her and she is exempt from punishment and now that the sister is a muslim her past has been forgiven. As for the rapist theres no point in you banging on about it if you wana do something then do it maybe you should make sure that whatever you do is under the islamic law but if its not then know that Allah forgives much and he is the most forgiving and most merciful provided you turn to Him.

Assalamu Alaikum.