What should we do about our sects?

[FBI]

Brothers chill out and debate with some adaab please!

 

[Talha777]

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

I love the following hadith:

حدثنا عبد السلام بن مطهر قال حدثنا عمر بن علي عن معن بن محمد الغفاري عن سعيد بن أبي سعيد المقبري عن أبي هريرة عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال إن الدين يسر ولن يشاد الدين أحد إلا غلبه فسددوا وقاربوا وأبشروا واستعينوا بالغدوة والروحة وشيء من الدلجة

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (salallahu alaihi wa salam) said, "Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded; and gain strength by worshipping in the mornings, the nights."
(Sahih al-Bukhari; Kitab-ul-Iman)

I think the message is that Islam is an easy religion, just stick to Holy Quran and Sunnat and there is no need for taqlid.

 

[snakelegs]

from my reading it is my understanding that:
the 4 mazhabs are not competing or fighting with each other and they agree on the really important things. their differences are over minor points.
are there pious sunnis who realize the importance of hadees but don't follow any mazhabs and if so, are wrong?
thanks.

 

[Khalid1402]

Jazak Allah khair sister, very well put.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

from my reading it is my understanding that:
the 4 mazhabs are not competing or fighting with each other and they agree on the really important things. their differences are over minor points.

Yes. There is no difference in matters of belief. There are only differences of opinion in jurisprudence issues.

are there pious sunnis who realize the importance of hadees but don't follow any mazhabs and if so, are wrong?
thanks.

This question has two parts.

Firstly, the layman has no madhab, 'his madhab' is the madhab of the scholar who he reffers to for rulings because the scholar has the understanding of the procedure to extract rulings whilst the layman does not. And this remains the case until he is able to extract his own rulings.

Indeed the common person cannot have a madhhab, even if he thinks that he does, since the common person has no madhhab at all. This is because the madhhab will be either for the one who is able to research to a certain level and understand evidence and also know about the other madhhabs or for the one who has read a book concerning the details of that madhhab and knows the ruling and saying of his Imaam.
​

This is futher clarified by the fact that the one who says 'I am shaafi'ee... or a Maalikee...or a Hanafee...' claiming that he follows that Imaam and his way, would only be truthful if he were to follow his way in acquing knolwedge, understanding and extraction of proof. As for this one, with his ignorance and being far from the manners of the Imaam and his knolwedge and way, how can it be correct for him to ascribe himself to him except with mere claims and empty words having no meaning?! How can the common person have a madhhab?
​

The second part is whether a person rejects the Madahib completely and refuses to follow them. That is foolish because when he turns to a scholar and asks for a ruling, he will be given a response based on of the Madhabs. And this person fails to realize that if we were to reject the opinions of these Imams, and start trying to derive rulings all over again today, we would fail or do an extremely poor job. Though following a Madhab is not obligatory, it is something which is beneficial for the layman because he can get a valid opinion without needing to refer to everything himself. As for the scholars, they can and are able tp learn the opinions of the different Madahib and then it is upon them to follow the strongest opinion - the one which has the most evidence to support it.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

salaam,

This statement is incorrect.



I am not sure who you are talking about, but you seem to have had some bad experiences with some scholars.


I think you need clarification in what Aqeedah is, as well as the difference between a madhab and a sect as they are not interchangeable.

1. You commented my statements are wrong. So what's right?

Should we follow them blindly whatever the religious scholars tell us; or

2. Should we question them when we find their two statements opposite to each other on the same issue? Afterall one of the 2 opposite staments has to wrong.

 

[snakelegs]

thanks, Al Madani.
i understand it much better now.

 

[Skillganon]

I know that madhab arised mainly during different time (correct me if I am wrong,

1. Is not the differernce of opinion due to what has reached (Hadith) the 4 madhabs. For example if something has not reached me, I cannot base my Judgement on it, and I might base my Judgment on something specific to A, by analogy of something that has reached me(Hadith) that is specific to B?

Am I correct?

So, when something has reached you (authenticated hadith) that is more specific to A, than one must base your Judgement on that, as this is more clear?

Thanks in advance for response.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

I know that madhab arised mainly during different time (correct me if I am wrong,

1. Is not the differernce of opinion due to what has reached (Hadith) the 4 madhabs. For example if something has not reached me, I cannot base my Judgement on it, and I might base my Judgment on something specific to A, by analogy of something that has reached me(Hadith) that is specific to B?

Am I correct?

So, when something has reached you (authenticated hadith) that is more specific to A, than one must base your Judgement on that, as this is more clear?

Thanks in advance for response.

You're right to some extent. But the first two major sects were created due to a difference of opion about Islam. One group wanted to make opinion based on Quran; whereas the other one from Quran and Sunnah both.

 

[snakelegs]

You're right to some extent. But the first two major sects were created due to a difference of opion about Islam. One group wanted to make opinion based on Quran; whereas the other one from Quran and Sunnah both.

which madhab wanted to best all their decisions on the qur'an alone and do they still take that position? are you talking about madhabs or sects?

 

[iqbal_soofi]

which mazhab wanted to best all their decisions on the qur'an alone and do they still take that position? are you talking about mazhabs or sects?

This is a sect. The 2nd largest group in Muslims. I don't want to go into details because it might flare up a secterian debate which is against the rules of this forum.

 

[SirZubair]

This is a sect. The 2nd largest group in Muslims. I don't want to go into details because it might flare up a secterian debate which is against the rules of this forum.

You are not making any sense akhi, you're confusing everyone.

Please explain yourself.

If you are unable to do so, then stop posting in this thread, because no-one is getting anywhere.

 

[AbuAbdallah]

salaam,
I am starting to feel like this is going nowhere.:enough!:

 

[snakelegs]

This is a sect. The 2nd largest group in Muslims. I don't want to go into details because it might flare up a secterian debate which is against the rules of this forum.

oh, ok. you're not talking about one of the 4 madhabs of jurisprudence.
you're right - we can't talk about sects, but madhabs are not considered a sect.

 

[Skillganon]

salaam,
I am starting to feel like this is going nowhere.:enough!:

Why? :?

I understand what is a madhab and what is a sect. Their is a big difference between the two.

 

[SirZubair]

Why? :?

Because....
.. the starter of the thread realises that he isn't allowed to talk about sects, and he is trying to have a go at a sect while not directly talking about it, but at the same time, he is making an attempt to talk about it...

... he is as confused as the thread itself.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I know that madhab arised mainly during different time (correct me if I am wrong,

1. Is not the differernce of opinion due to what has reached (Hadith) the 4 madhabs. For example if something has not reached me, I cannot base my Judgement on it, and I might base my Judgment on something specific to A, by analogy of something that has reached me(Hadith) that is specific to B?

Am I correct?

So, when something has reached you (authenticated hadith) that is more specific to A, than one must base your Judgement on that, as this is more clear?

Thanks in advance for response.

The point to realize here is that, even if the respective Ulema (Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafiee, Ahmad) did not recieve a Hadith, then the scholars of their madahib, those that came after them, following their Madhab, definetly recieved it and going back to my analogy earlier of the 'machine', they inserted what they recieved into the 'machine' and if they felt the original opinion was still stronger, then there is no harm in that. This is because each of the 4 Imams differed on their taking from the foundations of Usul ul Fiqh (Qur'an, Hadith, Ijm'a and Qiyas) some preferred one over the other like Imam Ahmad preferred taking a weak hadith over making Qiyas etc.

 

[Skillganon]

The point to realize here is that, even if the respective Ulema (Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafiee, Ahmad) did not recieve a Hadith, then the scholars of their madahib, those that came after them, following their Madhab, definetly recieved it and going back to my analogy earlier of the 'machine', they inserted what they recieved into the 'machine' and if they felt the original opinion was still stronger, then there is no harm in that. This is because each of the 4 Imams differed on their taking from the foundations of Usul ul Fiqh (Qur'an, Hadith, Ijm'a and Qiyas) some preferred one over the other like Imam Ahmad preferred taking a weak hadith over making Qiyas etc.

JazakAllahkhair for that.

Next question:

Is it not correct to say that the opinion that has stronger evidence, whatever the madhab that comes from or the in some case individual (aslong as the individual is good and reliable) than does it not become obligatory to follow in that?

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

JazakAllahkhair for that.

Next question:

Is it not correct to say that the opinion that has stronger evidence, whatever the madhab that comes from or the in some case individual (aslong as the individual is good and reliable) than does it not become obligatory to follow in that?

But the layman does not have the knowledge nor the means to examine all the evidences, arguements, and opinions to judge which is more correct. This would apply to the scholars who have studied each of the Madahib to decide which is a stronger opinion after they have studied each opinion and its proofs and sometimes scholars can themselves differ over whether opinion A or opinion B is stronger. So if one scholar feels one opinion is strongest, another may consider another one to be stronger. The safest option for a layman is to simply ask a scholar he trusts and take his ruling on a matter, if the opinion is correct the scholar recieves two rewards, and if he erred, then he recieves one reward.

 

[Musalmaan]

i thinks its the benficial discussion. may Allah make it truly beneficial.

one wrong thing that is repeated in few posts which needs to be corrected is that taqleed does not mean blind following, taqleed is ittiba (to follow), and technically on shari'i basis here it means to follow who are Allah's favored people.

Following the righteous ppl. will lead to path of jannah,
leaving them and choosing other way will eventually leads to destruction.

Every body is doing taqleed. matter of concern is whose taqleed are they doing?

The safest option for a layman is to simply ask a scholar he trusts and take his ruling on a matter, if the opinion is correct the scholar recieves two rewards, and if he erred, then he recieves one reward.

masha'Allah. that's correct. In any case the Muqallid and Scholar is majoor(rewarded).

but those who are Non-muqallids people, what rewards are the really earning???

are there pious sunnis who realize the importance of hadees but don't follow any mazhabs and if so, are wrong?
thanks.

In respect of Mujtahid, answer is YES, in respect of Layman answer is No.


For the layman the safest and the God-fearing(taqwah) way to follow the shariah of Muhammad Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam is to adopt a particular madhab out of 4 (usually the scholars of madhab that are easily accesible) and to do taqleed(ittiba) of the madhab and finally avoid the ignorant La madhabi people or those people who confuse or put waswasa onto other that you're salaah is like jewish or is not acceptable, incomplete etc etc, just avoid them and stick to madhab for every action and matter that is being defined, is defined by the Quran and Hadith and the jamaah(group) of the companions of prophet.

madhab is the good solution for contradicting and ijtihadi matter and are the best and safest way for the ummah. the foundation of madhab is by the salaf sualiheen and every later scholars for 1200 years are just building up on this foundation.