What will we Muslims lose if there is no GOD ???

[noodles]

Here is my little Tid-Bit somewhat logical take on some of the things we are discussing in this thread.

I find that most people be it Muslim, Christian, Atheist or any other religion try to find a purpose. They question themselves and in doing so very much limit their thinking. Anyway, My point is that everything serves a purpose in this world. Or multiple purposes.

Pygoscelis compared us to a painting, well let me ask you, what purpose does a painting serve? Is it not for your entertainment?

I ask you, so what? What if god created us for his own entertainment, the point is that he created us for a purpose, and that is his entertainment.

Likewise, what's the purpose of an actor? Is it not to entertain?
What's the purpose of a fly? It is the one of the most annoying critters according to us, yet they too serve a purpose. [Now I dont know what it is, but surely they do something to help the environment]

Similarly, what is the purpose of a flower? it is for us use for certain ailments, foods or perfumes. But wait, it also serves another purpose, to look beautiful.

Us humans also serve multiple purposes. However, we get so involved in trying to find the proof of these claims that we make that we lose sight of the objective.


As a side note, I ask you people who are on the other side of the argument that why is so hard for you to believe?

You are so quick to believe scientists when they hypothesize their theories, and because they are so knowledgeable, you believe them even though you've got no proof on your hands. However, when someone shows proof to you, and you know the person had no knowledge of it and claims it is the word from god, you doubt him?

I may be bringing myself into one heck of an argument, but I felt the need to participate.

 

[aamirsaab]

I can respect that. I imagine there are additional reasons people believe and follow as well. But Pascal's Wager's logic (which I was addressing) is about the punishment/reward dynamic.

I understand the falicies of pascal's wager. It's important to remember though Islam is not a complete manifestation of this. (I would go into detail but it is off topic)

Aamirsaab you dont ever think (omg if i do this sin Allah will punish me?) or (omg if i miss dis prayer i might end up in hell for 80 years) etc etc.

With regards to sinning, it is usually only a minor one (swear word or something your average 19 year old muslim does ) that I commit. In which case, I do not think about Allah's punishment, what I do think about is how it will affect others around me - will screaming insults at random people offend them? If yes, don't do it. That is the 'logic' I work on.

of course lets not be dum we also think (Alhamdulillah for this beautiful wife which God bestowed) and (Alhamdulillah for these great gifts given only by God out of mercy) we love and fear him!

Indeed. There is however a common misconception about fearing Allah; the fear in this context is similar to how one would fear a lion. e.g. one would not do anything to provoke that lion from say eating you. However, the utmost and honest respect is given to the lion.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Anyway, My point is that everything serves a purpose in this world. Or multiple purposes.

Sure, and purpose is subjective so changes according to perspective. My dog would declare my purpose to be to walk and feed and play with him. My clientswould deem my purpose to be to serve their needs. An alligator would see my purpose as a quick meal should I fall into its swamp. Not sure if this is on topic at all, but I do agree.

As a side note, I ask you people who are on the other side of the argument that why is so hard for you to believe?

Extraordinary claims and extraordinary demands on behaviour (adherence to seemingly arbitrary and sometimes damaging dogma) require extraordinary proof.

 

[snakelegs]

i just skimmed through this. but to answer your thread title question:
nothing whatsoever! i say, go for it - be the best muslim you can be!

 

[Skavau]

What will we Muslims lose if there is no GOD ???

You don't know. Could be another basis for punishment after life where no God is involved. You could lose lots of things.

Because if there is no GOD then when we all die it will be the end ,no one will be punished and no one will be awarded as well ,so this will be the end of it and we will not lose any thing .

To rephrase, do you mean: If there is no afterlife of any description we'll lose nothing? I don't see how no God automatically rules out the possibility of an afterlife.

We Muslims didn’t have any trouble by worshiping one GOD alone with no partners

Good for you. However not everyone feels this way.

We can eat every kind of food except a few things (like pork and non slaughtered animals and every thing that is harmful)
We can drink any kind of syrup except a few types of drinks (like wine and impure drinks and blood and every thing that is harmful )

So we Muslims are worshiping GOD and also are enjoying our life

Yes. That's fine if it makes you happy.

Both males and females can get married and enjoy our marriages.(we don’t have to do prohibited adultery).

Excuse me, but just where do you get the idea that Non-Muslims have to engage in adultery? Proof please.

We can make journeys and enjoy traveling

So can ANYONE.

We can work and get money and spend it to gain physical allowed enjoyments (like eating the allowed ,drinking , marrying , traveling , reading books , studying and becoming scientists and so on)
We are being kind to others and we help people and treat out fathers and mothers well and obey our parents for Allah’s sake .

So can ANYONE.

But if there is a GOD then

any one who haven’t believed in that or didn’t worship him will surely lose a lot especially after he dies because all sorts of punishments will be waiting for him and he will enter eternal Hell with no chance to get out of it and you know what he deserved it.

I do not recognise the "Well you've got nothing to lose" argument because it does not underpin people's basis for NOT believing. It ignores all other reasons and just spouts utter drivel.

First of all, the hole in the argument is that what if Thor is true? What if the FSM is true? What if Zeus is true? What if Hinduism, Sikhism, Christianity, Jainism, Baha'i is true? That argument doesn't work considering all the other faith systems out there that are possible. Why single out Islam? Oh yeah, because YOU believe it is the only way. And we reach your real motive, not the attempt to rationalise it.

Secondly, 'We have nothing to lose'? You fail to recognise for some that Islam is a huge life change. It would be for me. I love my music and would not be willing to give it up for a start.

And I am going to quote John Stuart Mill, to address the condemnation to hell point:

Whatever power such a being shall have over me, there is one thing
which he shall not do: he shall not compel me to worship him. I will
call no being good, who is not what I mean when I apply that epithet
to my fellow-creatures; and if such a being can sentence me to hell
for not calling him so, then to hell I will go. - John Stuart Mill

Continuing onwards, though:

But there is a scary probability that atheists will lose every thing in there future after death and this loss will be for eternity

But YOU uphold that. Not me or other Atheists.

A terrible post with a weak argument, and that is my brutally honest opinion.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i just skimmed through this. but to answer your thread title question:
nothing whatsoever! i say, go for it - be the best muslim you can be!

whoah, i really respect you!

 

[Skavau]

as i said he is only one GOD , so i ask you to try to obey him as possible as you can or else

I just noticed this. Your true motivation comes out. Making threats is childish and means nothing to us.

okay you say that you are willing to be thrown for ever in hell fire ,that's your choice and this is not my choice.

No no. No-one wants to be in a hell fire. What Pyco was saying that if God wants someone to worship him or be tortured, then he is evil and no more different than a dictator in a totalitarian state who hunts down those who go against the state ideology.

IdnAbdul:
[/quote]this shows pride and arrogance, if the creator has instructed us to bow then only the stupid will resist knowing that the fire is their recompense. Satan was surely one of the stupid.

That doesn't justify the action of sending someone to eternal torture just for resisting the wrath of a creator. Why would a God care if we believe in that God or not? Surely moral virtues are far more important than constantly affirming your belief in a deity that does not require it?

If Allah existed, and I resisted - it would be a STUPID action based on logic, but it wouldn't make what that God does to me because of it morally correct.

worshipping not only enlightens us but fills us with peace, a peace you cant attain with all the riches in the world. If the kings knew they would take out their swords to rob this peace from us.

Worshipping in any religion gives anyone 'peace of mind'. There are lots of techniques. It is not just limited to Islam.

 

[Trumble]

Every other acclaimed religion has been proven wrong to the point where questioning is not allowed and blind faith is encouraged apart from Islam.

'Proven' wrong to who, muslims? And by who? It certainly hasn't been proven to the three billion or so who follow other faiths. And that's not including the atheists and agnostics, all of whom would think Islam falls squarely in that category as well.

Yet again, nothing has been 'proven'. It almost certainly never will be. If it had been everyone would be either muslim, or Christian, or Buddhist, or whatever depending on what that 'proof' was. But Islam has no more to offer in that respect than any other faith unless, of course, you are already a muslim.

 

[Hemoo]

well i have seen most of your responses and i Don't has the time to make replies on all what has been writen ..

so its enogh what my beloved brothers in islam has said

but i want to add some opinions :

it seems to me that the main cause of some people becoming atheists is their background religion.

i mean that most of the athiests now in the world used to be christians and jews or lived in a christians or jewish areas

and what happened is that when they where educated that christianity is the true relegion and then they seen many contradictions between both altered bible ,torah and between logic and science they thought that all the religions are the same and so they chose to take this anti relegion attitude

(and you all may have heared of what did the christian churches used to do to scientist before and it used to burn them to death just because they said something that does not go along with the biblical text)

so i say again and for the last time islamic texts has not been altered or changed from the time this texts where revealed to the Prophet muhammad (peace be upon him) and till now .

so for all of you athiests who had a nightmaric christianity background i tell you that Islam is not like christianity

so give your selves a second chance and try to sincerly learn about Islam to see if it is really bad like you may think or no


and i wish to all of you to be granted the guidance of ALLAH ...say Amen you will not lose a thing if you say it (Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeen)

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

'Proven' wrong to who, muslims? And by who? It certainly hasn't been proven to the three billion or so who follow other faiths. And that's not including the atheists and agnostics, all of whom would think Islam falls squarely in that category as well.

Yet again, nothing has been 'proven'. It almost certainly never will be. If it had been everyone would be either muslim, or Christian, or Buddhist, or whatever depending on what that 'proof' was. But Islam has no more to offer in that respect than any other faith unless, of course, you are already a muslim.

But there is much error with the bible, as i mentioned before (which i dont wish to mention again), i dont know much about judaism however i have heard that they dont allow their religion to be spread which i find very strange.

Honestly i have grown up in london, i went to primary/secondary/college and am now working in a university yet i havent met one commited person of another faith.

I find this strange.. i thought i found a christian once but after questioning a bit it turned out he doesnt really believe. So it seems to me that only muslims widely truelly believe in God.

What is your view?

 

[wilberhum]

So it seems to me that only muslims widely truelly believe in God.

You base this astounding conclusion based on one Christian?
How can anyone ever come to such narrow mindless thought.
There are strong and weak believers in every religion.
Muslims have nothing special in this area.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

You base this astounding conclusion based on one Christian?
How can anyone ever come to such narrow mindless thought.
There are strong and weak believers in every religion.
Muslims have nothing special in this area.

lol i based it because throughout my life i have come across countless and i say COUNTLESS dedicated and commited muslims, and i have had many MANY non-muslim friends, so why not even once, not even once have i come across a dedicated non-muslim.

however your right it was narrow-minded.

Perhaps i have yet to see him, i cant wait to have discussions with him

 

[wilberhum]

lol i based it because throughout my life i have come across countless and i say COUNTLESS dedicated and commited muslims, and i have had many MANY non-muslim friends, so why not even once, not even once have i come across a dedicated non-muslim.

however your right it was narrow-minded.

Perhaps i have yet to see him, i cant wait to have discussions with him

Go to church some Sunday.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Go to church some Sunday.

wont i find them there if i go on a saturday :?

 

[wilberhum]

wont i find them there if i go on a saturday :?

I think you will find them anytime you go. :thumbs_up But don't presume that church is the only place that Christians pray. :?

 

[ManchesterFolk]

5. You most certainly DO lose by worshiping. You waste time that could be spent more constructively. You accept a bunch of dogma that usually includes negative things. You may even cut yourself off from friendship with entire groups of other people due to the dogma you follow due to their worldview or even gender.

REPS!

 

[Hemoo]

as a Closing to what i have said i wanted to clarify two things :

first :when i made this article i made it as a probability on the current state ,i mean that muslims who are a true believers will not lose a thing any way , and i didn't do it for atheists to become muslims for just this probability case and i think that "snake legs" has understood me on that.

second : that in Islam any worshiping or prayer must have two conditions to be right

1- is to be a good deed with the following of the prophet muhammad (or else it will be bid`a or inventioned )

2- is to be clearly and sincerly FOR Allah's sake not for any thing else (you can see that in the first hadith mentioned in Authintic Sahih Bukhary it says -Narated By 'Umar bin Al-Khattab : I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. So whoever emigrated for worldly benefits or for a woman to marry, his emigration was for what he emigrated for." )

hope you all get what i meantioned ...

 

[England]

If there's no God then your lives are wasted with all those restrictions...

But if there is a GOD then

any one who haven’t believed in that or didn’t worship him will surely lose a lot especially after he dies because all sorts of punishments will be waiting for him and he will enter eternal Hell with no chance to get out of it and you know what he deserved it.

If there is a God, which there is I don't believe anyone will go to eternal hell and face punishments just because they didn't worship him. That would portray God as evil. He isn't evil. I believe God judges a person by the person he is. I personally feel God is happy about the person I am, the way I live my life. As I've said before, God has helped me in my life..

God will send us to eternal hell... :blind: That's surely an insult to God..

 

[queenmuslimah]

all i can say is allahu akbar........allahu abkar.........allah is the greatest........allah is the best mashallah...........may allah guide us all to the right path ameen..............

 

[England]

all i can say is allahu akbar........allahu abkar.........allah is the greatest........allah is the best mashallah...........may allah guide us all to the right path ameen..............

Stay out of trouble, be a decent human being, live life peacefully then we are no doubt on the right path...